6,000 Guns And Explosives Stolen From Thai Army Barracks

[mazeltov]

...

Informed sources claim about 6,000 assault rifles and a large amount of explosives were taken from ...

 

- thaivisa.com 2010-03-07 

6000 stolen rifles - think about it - does that sound somehow plausible? If you look closer at it is is almost totally fictional, how that could get published? The pressure and the ambition to be the first one who reports the news about the missing items in that inventory? it sound hot news, breaking, urgent, so dramatic , a scandal right? Only two possible suspects south or red shirt. The PM spoke yesterday about intelligence information that acts of sabotage are planned. That isn't propaganda or "scare tactics" and next day evidence comes. On Tuesday the army discovered the theft of 6000 rifles, two days later on Thursday they filed a report to the police, instead of calling some investigators in in an instant and on Sunday the government spokesman makes it public that there is an urgent investigation about a "a massive loss of weapons and explosives".

First i thought it's "news" from The Nation because it looks so typical The Nation. getting figures wrong, mix up the details, create drama where is actually nothing.

I think it should be pretty obvious now that "6,000 assault rifles" can't be right and can't be possible. Previous entries demonstrated by simple doing the maths, let me that shortly repeat - a single M16 rifle has a weight of 3.5 kg, multiply that by 6000. The sum is maybe not to easy to visualise if you are not in cargo or logistics business or a truck driver. Look up how much weight an average truck can carry or picture these international standard freight container or shipping container- they are capable of carrying up to max. 20–25 tonnes. but these 6000 x 3.5 kg rifles will come in racks or transport boxes, so we have to consider additional weight. Another issue is the volume or capacity of storage room 6000 rifles need. that is a lot of space. do a google image search for "Weapon Carts" or "M16 storage rack", and than try to imagine how much storage units you will need for 6000 rifles. Now you should get a picture in your mind how a bulk of 6000 rifles look like, try to imagine to steal them, unseen, unnoticed, in an army camp.

Anyway, reports by other news agencies and channels informed us that it is probably just ammunition, "3000 bullets".

How it comes to 6000 rifles? Possible explanation: someone got lost in translation, the editor of the news didn't gave a second thought. The publisher don't care so much about accuracy.

Like i said, first i looked at The Nation website. I wanted to see if the report is still online. The Nation don't cares about inaccuracy and would never or seldom correct a mistake and if it happen The Nation will not inform its readers with a line like "A previous version of the online news contained a mistake. The Nation reported that ........, but we stand corrected. please please accept our apologies.".

But it didn't came from The Nation, it came from "thai visa news", whatever that exactly is.

I am missing some edits in the first entry on the topic and some additional information what and why is something wrong with the bold headline "6,000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks".

Not every visitor or of the forum will read all the following entries in this thread.

And it isnt just a minor issue like a small typo, transposed digits, getting lost with the q^th power. or mixup the exact name of some government department or get a date of a historical event wrong. The is a difference in between reporting that '6000 rifles are stolen' and possibly in the hand of terrorist groups or that an stock taking in some army camp had shown that somehow 3000 cartridges went missing and at the moment the authorities looking for someone to blame.

A journalist or publisher of news, a news agency should show some responsibility and be accountable. and not try to hope it will get unnoticed or hide behind phrase like 'a informed source said' and that you could argue 'it wasn't me, i am the victim of false information too'.

In style and layout that news report comes the same way like other news items here. with and icon or symbol of the respective publisher/news agency like The Nation, state news agencies or AFP as the signature and sign of trust at the end. Thai visa news follows the same pattern. so i expect a certain degree of reliability, i would like to get the feeling that i can trust these news (too a certain degree).

6000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks its a headline like a bomb. you probably enjoying to look at the page hit stats. the old print media 100 years ago would had sold an extra evening edition with that front page too. But the first entry here is just a hoax, and has that additional very fishy smell, an invitation to start with a lot of speculation. Why that obviously distorted information, is there a intention behind, what is motivation, observer may ask and draw their conclusions. doesn't that thai visa news entity care about its reputation? Thai visa news, you can do better.

anyway, the line "According to Mr Panitan, a police report was filed last Thursday" is my favorite of the whole piece.

compare: www.last-thursday.org

encyclopediadramatica.com/Last_Thursday

[anotherpeter]

There has never been a 'vote for constitution A B or C' vote EVER in Thailand.

--------------------

Hence, there is NO constitution!!!

You misunderstand the statement.

The voters were never given an option for constitution A, B or C. They were only given an option to accept or reject constitution A.

The voted in the majority to accept.

[Acharn]

There has never been a 'vote for constitution A B or C' vote EVER in Thailand.

--------------------

Hence, there is NO constitution!!!

I'm sympathetic to your view, but I recall the history of the U.S. constitution. There was no "constitution A, B, or C" choice there, either. The states were given the option of either ratifying or rejecting the document presented to them by the Constitutional Convention. Some of the states weren't very democratic (in Massachusetts you couldn't vote unless you were a member in good standing of the official church, no state allowed women to vote, most had high property requirements, etc.). Nevertheless, we think of the U.S. constitution as legitimate. I have to agree, though, that the vote on the 2007 Constitution (either vote for this POS or we'll pick one of the previous Constitutions that we like and use it instead) was pretty bad.

And between the courts (judges appointed by the junta) destroying political parties, the Army refusing to assist the police in protecting the security of the country, and back-room maneuvering by the Army to "persuade" politicians to "support" Abhisit, his position, while strictly legal, is not as legitimate as the PAD would like to pretend.

[animatic]

Okay, I apologize to anyone who read my comment about the super "GT-200" I made the comment after reading an article (written by the manufacturer) and mistakenly assuming it was similliar to equipment I had used from Honeywell.

My statement was dead wrong and ignorant.

Honeywell makes real products. I am sure what you used worked.

This guy was making a fake and marketing to the same segment, but off shore,

but relying on sales pitch. So butt stupid to actually market it to his own western army....

It still amazes me that he thought he could pull this off long enough to be worthwhile.

How long did he imagine he could sell thousands of FAKES and not get caught?

It doesn't amaze me that people buaght them, just that he must have been nuts

to think it would go on long enough to real be worth while.

Some people are JUST smart enough to be VERY, VERY, STUPID.

The person who made off with this arsenal, doesn't need that same amount of time,

it is really do or die for career, and maybe life, with this action, MUST get it done, or be toasted.

Still ;

Cached in a hole, but sowing doubt for security personnel has uses.

Or moved up in army convoys of trusted or uninformed soldiers just doing

what they are told, with proper papers for road blocks,

Or brought up in several vans or fruit trucks or regular Army Trucks, using any number of ruses,

remember most smuggling happens easily enough here. Money talks,

and the army is rarely questioned, except by the army.

Who was our renegade General de jour actually training down near Patalung Hatyai last month????

How were they being trained? Where were they being trained? Why?

A Peoples Army need arms. A civil war announced, needs a way to kick itself off.

Edited March 8, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

There has never been a 'vote for constitution A B or C' vote EVER in Thailand.

--------------------

Hence, there is NO constitution!!!

So by your kneejerk logic there has NEVER been a valid constitution in the history of Siam Thailand.

In which case, what's your point if this one is brought in the same?

All constitutional votes have been Yeah or Nay.

Same for USA constitution and that choice given to the states for ratification, Yes or No.

Please name one judge appointed by the junta.

Go on, who?

This keeps getting repeated and people are starting to believe it.

Whgcih is the aim of repeating it so often.

Edited March 8, 2010 by animatic

[Samuian]

Just looking at the sheer size of such a cache, my guess is that these

Assult rifles and Ammo plus Explosives may have never existed in the first place!

Doing some auditing, many "old hands" have been moved and now the "orders",

which have been paid for, but may never have been delivered and so never really been stored there

.... are showing!

It looks like the have been "stolen".... or someone said: "they must have been stolen, then..."

Just a thought or two... 6000 Assult rifles don't disappear just like that!

No way!

[Acharn]

I don't know which is of most concern:

a. 6000 guns have been stolen from an army storage

b. We believe that army is so incompetent or corrupt that it is perfectly feasible for it to have happened.

The mere fact that we are sitting here discussing this in realms of being possible is absolutely astonishing. There should be no way for 6000 guns to go missing without a bullet being fired.

If it is true, the level of day to to day corruption in the army must be astonishing. If it isn't true, the army must really think that the entire nation is thicker than pig S**t to believe such a stupid story.

Not if a real, but renegade, General level person showed up with papers made out correctly,

and doesn't volunteer information about what he was doing with the materials.

If later in thr week you hear about the 'Peoples Army' and possibly treasonous actions, and put two and two together,

and THEN tell your superior, well then the cat is out of the bag, but the arsenal is also out of the depot.

Why would a general not be able to move around munitions and armaments

on just his say so with papers appearing in order?

Go up the chain of command enough and no second lui will dare question your actions,

no matter what echelon you're from...

I don't know how things are done in the Thai Army, but I know that in the American Army the paperwork is everything. Especially with weapons. Nobody, no matter what their rank, just walks in and orders weapons to be loaded into trucks and taken away. Paper, paper, paper. Signed authorizations, and signatures known to the custodians.

This is not to say that quantities of weapons and explosives don't get stolen from the U.S. military every year, but 6,000 rifles is a lot. there are a lot of militia members in the U.S. who would love to pull that off.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't know which is of most concern:

a. 6000 guns have been stolen from an army storage

b. We believe that army is so incompetent or corrupt that it is perfectly feasible for it to have happened.

The mere fact that we are sitting here discussing this in realms of being possible is absolutely astonishing. There should be no way for 6000 guns to go missing without a bullet being fired.

If it is true, the level of day to to day corruption in the army must be astonishing. If it isn't true, the army must really think that the entire nation is thicker than pig S**t to believe such a stupid story.

Not if a real, but renegade, General level person showed up with papers made out correctly,

and doesn't volunteer information about what he was doing with the materials.

If later in thr week you hear about the 'Peoples Army' and possibly treasonous actions, and put two and two together,

and THEN tell your superior, well then the cat is out of the bag, but the arsenal is also out of the depot.

Why would a general not be able to move around munitions and armaments

on just his say so with papers appearing in order?

Go up the chain of command enough and no second lui will dare question your actions,

no matter what echelon you're from...

As I said, very very scary. They shouldn't have to "question" their actions, the simple fact should be the system shouldn't be so incompetent to allow your scenario to happen. Hardly covering themselves in glory recently are they, the Thai army.

The idea that someone could legitimately get through the necessary checks and simply spirit 6000 guns out of an armoury by blagging his way through and puffing out his chest to "force" the order through by rank is very worrying.

For a country where even the "moobhan" guards puff out their chests and ask for ID, one would presume that the system for controlling the movement of munitions around the country is a bit tighter than that which you describe.

[BSJ]

Very interesting!

6000 assault rifles (plus explosives) in the old style wooden or steel boxes would need a fleet of Unimog's numbering 20 or more to move it all.

And the appropriate paperwork to go with them....otherwise the Quartermaster wouldn't release them from storage and without the Quartermasters stamp they wouldn't get off base.

So what's the truth here........

Was it a heist?

Were palms greased at many levels to expediate the heist?

Who where the heisters?

And if so is the secret army the Red's have been training now gunned up and ready to go?

[Thai at Heart]

To create havoc at the march, 6 automatic weapons would be enough. 60 would be unthinkable.

The reds don't need 6000 guns to get the army to attack them. But, you need 6000 guns to attack the army.

I don't believe for one second that there are going to be 6000 guns hidden among the crowds at the march.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[animatic]

Generals are still Generals, grunts don't question Generals,

and who better to scam the system, but another General.

One would hope,

but not expect a better system of checks and balances,

but then again... dare I say it... TIT.

[MyphuketLife]

Very interesting!

6000 assault rifles (plus explosives) in the old style wooden or steel boxes would need a fleet of Unimog's numbering 20 or more to move it all.

And the appropriate paperwork to go with them....otherwise the Quartermaster wouldn't release them from storage and without the Quartermasters stamp they wouldn't get off base.

So what's the truth here........

Was it a heist?

Were palms greased at many levels to expediate the heist?

Who where the heisters?

And if so is the secret army the Red's have been training now gunned up and ready to go?

I doubt it, 6,000 guns don't "just go missing". Either it was an audit, that found 6,000 guns "missing" that under further investigation will find that they were never there to begin with, just fake invoices. Or some stuff was stolen but the Nation miss-reported the amount, or miss-reported what was stolen maybe 6,000 riffle bullets, but they reported as 6,000 riffles, who knows? The thing to remember is if you look at past articles ranging from drugs to property the Nation does not have a great track record when it comes to reporting accurate numbers. I take this story with a HUGE grain of salt.

[ableguy]

Did anyone wonder, what's an "Engineering Regiment" doing with/or storing 6,000 assault rifles???

The engineers aren't usually the ones up front doing all the shooting....

At least the explosives part, I can understand. Engineers in the Army, after all, do like to blow things up...

The only thing anyone with half a brain can be certain of is that the army and the police are so corrupt they are a joke.

[Thai at Heart]

Generals are still Generals, grunts don't question Generals,

and who better to scam the system, but another General.

One would hope,

but not expect a better system of checks and balances,

but then again... dare I say it... TIT.

For sure, nothing would surprise me. Since when should we expect the Thai army to be run to world class standards. Armies all over the world screw things up every day, and TIT after all.

Coming to the 6000. I really wouldn't be surprised if as someone else mentioned, that the numbers are all cookie on this too.

Wouldn't having 6000 guns in stock sitting around in one store represent a considerable excess amount of arms per soldier in the area?

Edited March 8, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[blaze]

Generals are still Generals, grunts don't question Generals,

and who better to scam the system, but another General.

One would hope,

but not expect a better system of checks and balances,

but then again... dare I say it... TIT.

For sure, nothing would surprise me. Since when should we expect the Thai army to be run to world class standards. Armies all over the world screw things up every day, and TIT after all.

Coming to the 6000. I really wouldn't be surprised if as someone else mentioned, that the numbers are all cookie on this too.

Wouldn't having 6000 guns in stock sitting around in one store represent a considerable excess amount of arms per soldier in the area?

Remember that this figure- 6000 rifles- was put into the public realm by the Nation. Today, the Nation (hardcopy but NOT online- I mean there are issues of 'face' to be considered here) reported that the number of weapons was "not as high as originally reported" (by the Nation). The fact that neither the hard copy nor the online version of the Nation refers to actual minimum numbers suggests that they don't have a clue how many weapons were stolen. Still no mention of when the thefts took place, how they were discovered or how security lapses could have occurred- only a lot of innuendo about who is now weilding the stolen items.

If the intent was to create a public appetite for draconian measures to be applied before Friday, then the Nation is to be commended for its skill at manipulating the gullible.

Edited March 8, 2010 by blaze

[connel707]

Oops. It sure would be good to know where those guns are.

If you wonder just what the Guards were doing... watch this ..

[shawndoc]

The Nation isn't the only media in the country. For a story such as this, whether 6,000 rifles, or 60 were missing, it should be getting coverage from other media. Has no other paper written about this story? And if not, why not?

[moo9]

This sounds like a ruse to enable to invoke the internal security act and keep the Red Shirts out of central Bangkok. The easy steps have been taken: banning E-tans from the streets, announcing that any vehicle used as a barracade will be destroyed. Now they have an excuse to search vehicles and individuals and generally harrass participants. The ruling elite are shit scared and its showing! 6,000 weapons just Walking out of a base in Pattalung close to the Southern insurgency problem. yeah right!

What nonsense are you writing? "The ruling elite" *lol* do you really think the Thaksin clan was not a kind of elite?

If you are a poor farmer, I will forgive you, but I assume you are not. If really 1 Million people should come to BKK and block roads etc. the government would have all reasons to invoke the Internal Security Act.

[blaze]

The Nation isn't the only media in the country. For a story such as this, whether 6,000 rifles, or 60 were missing, it should be getting coverage from other media. Has no other paper written about this story? And if not, why not?

This bit of 'news' came to my attention as a banner on Thaivisa- but I find no mention of 6000 rifles in the Nation online nor the hard copy versions. Could the moderators perhaps clear up just where this story originated. (and accept, on behalf of the Nation, my apology for stating that it had originated with that particular media outlet).

[otherstuff1957]

All of the other stories concerning the theft refer to rifle cartridges (or bullets) and grenades. Here's a quote from the BP: A highly-placed security source said the weapons and ammunition stolen included about 2,000 rounds for M16 and HK rifles, about 1,000 rounds for an 11mm pistol, and about 20 anti-personnel M26 and M67 grenades.

Now, can we have some confirmation of the original story? If not, how about changing the inflammatory and apparently incorrect topic title!

[blaze]

All of the other stories concerning the theft refer to rifle cartridges (or bullets) and grenades. Here's a quote from the BP: A highly-placed security source said the weapons and ammunition stolen included about 2,000 rounds for M16 and HK rifles, about 1,000 rounds for an 11mm pistol, and about 20 anti-personnel M26 and M67 grenades.

Now, can we have some confirmation of the original story? If not, how about changing the inflammatory and apparently incorrect topic title!

If the story, as reported on TVisa is true, the implications could be harrowing- the prospect of civil war among army factions can't be ruled out. If it is NOT true, then those broadcasting it MUST show some responsibility and not only publicly retract the story as originally broadcast, but name the media source from which it was obtained. Because whoever started this rumor- (and it appears to be just that) has lost a hel_l of a lot of credibility. This is NOT a simple matter of mistranslation. And even if it were, given the current climate, it is unforgiveable that a serious news organization would allow this to slip through the cracks.

[hammered]

A bunch of weapons including M16s, AK47s and bombs have been found in a restaurant in Nakornchaisri according to a TAN report.

[papermate]

Wouldn't having 6000 guns in stock sitting around in one store represent a considerable excess amount of arms per soldier in the area?

Remember that this figure- 6000 rifles- was put into the public realm by the Nation.

No, it wasn't.

The 6,000 figure was reported in the op as coming from:

Thaivisa News

which is different than:

The Nation.

I guess they have their own news writers now.

Edited March 8, 2010 by papermate

[blaze]

A bunch of weapons including M16s, AK47s and bombs have been found in a restaurant in Nakornchaisri according to a TAN report.

It shouldn't be so difficult to ascertain that these were part of the Pattalung booty - should it? (serial numbers etc). Really, the idea of military weaponry- especially grenades- turning up in private homes (or restaurants- is hardly new and may have nothing to do with the Pattalung arsenal. Or --- it may.

Certainly this bit of info will, among some, reinforce the notion that all hel_l is going to break loose on Friday creating a climate amenable to a coup. These next few days will be crucial test--- of the media.

[TAWP]

"Tighten security" -- what a concept.

I would expect security around weapons warehouses to be tight as a duck's @ss in the first place, nothing there to tighten, or someone's made a mess already!

I should perhaps not bring up the fact of how many weapons that are stolen from mobilization storage points in my home country throughout the years or in other countries...

[blaze]

Wouldn't having 6000 guns in stock sitting around in one store represent a considerable excess amount of arms per soldier in the area?

Remember that this figure- 6000 rifles- was put into the public realm by the Nation.

No, it wasn't.

The 6,000 figure was reported in the op as coming from:

Thaivisa News

which is different than:

The Nation.

I guess they have their own news writers now.

Forgive me ignorance- what is Thaivisa news? Is it an independent news agency with its own reporters or does it rely on reports published by other agencies?

[papermate]

Wouldn't having 6000 guns in stock sitting around in one store represent a considerable excess amount of arms per soldier in the area?

Remember that this figure- 6000 rifles- was put into the public realm by the Nation.

No, it wasn't.

The 6,000 figure was reported in the op as coming from:

Thaivisa News

which is different than:

The Nation.

I guess they have their own news writers now.

Forgive me ignorance- what is Thaivisa news? Is it an independent news agency with its own reporters or does it rely on reports published by other agencies?

I don't know what it is either. I was just hypothesizing as the banner at the bottom of the article is different than The Nation, and thaivisa seems to always use The Nation banner whenever an article from The Nation is used.

I'm as curious as much as everyone as to who in particular came up with this unconfirmed news and the apparently erroneous numbers used.

Edited March 8, 2010 by papermate

[Zolt]

As if having a military who's corrupt, heavy handed, and asnwers to no one was not enough, they also have to be incompetent at what they do?

[Hollywood3000]

6000 weapons? Sounds like misinformation to me. Timing is perfect, too perfect.

[skippy]

Any WMD stolen or will the dreaded Somtam be used in attacks ?