Buying Land In Issan

[tezzainoz]

My Thai wife and I live in Australia and her parents have told her their are 2 acres of land available in her village

They have asked the wife to send the money so she can buy the land

The wife says there is no need for lawyers just 4 people to testify and they go to the lands office and papers are exchanged

Can any one fill me in on this please

what is the proper way for a Thai lady to buy land in Issan

[gotlost]

First of all: Location, secondly the unit of land in Thiland is rai not acres, so how many rai are we talking about? Next what is the land, rice, farm, etc. Title or un titled. FYI 2.2 rai per acre. The part about the land office is correct .

[InterestedObserver]

First of all your wife cannot purchase land in Thailand while sitting in Australia. The land will end up in her parents name, are you ok with that? Next what kind of land title (and land) are we talking about? If you expect to build a house there it would be nice to know if you have road access to the property.

[tezzainoz]

First of all: Location, secondly the unit of land in Thiland is rai not acres, so how many rai are we talking about? Next what is the land, rice, farm, etc. Title or un titled. FYI 2.2 rai per acre. The part about the land office is correct .

Wife insists it is 2 acres or 4.4 Rai

Land is for rice but she want to grow Sugar Cane

Title or untitled she have no idea what you ask

all I can tell its 10 years ago in Kalasin the gov took over documents and you get a certificate to say you have the land

Apart from this I know nothing

The reason I am asking as its so easy to get ripped off in this area

But will try and get answers if needed to help with this topic

Edited March 8, 2010 by tezzainoz

[tezzainoz]

First of all your wife cannot purchase land in Thailand while sitting in Australia. The land will end up in her parents name, are you ok with that? Next what kind of land title (and land) are we talking about? If you expect to build a house there it would be nice to know if you have road access to the property.

The land will go in hr father name, have no problem with this.

But will be interested to know why she can not buy while in Australia ???

Can she buy is she returns for a holiday ??

She tells me the land is on the main road

Explain Land title to me so I can ask her to find out

she wants to grow sugar can on the land, but latter maybe a house

I take it by your statement you can buy land with no road access is this true ???

[InterestedObserver]

If it's not too much money, the relationship with the wife is splendid, and you want to keep the peace - then go for it. What difference do the details make.

[InterestedObserver]

But will be interested to know why she can not buy while in Australia ???

Can she buy is she returns for a holiday ??

You both would have to be physically present at the land office to sign the papers.

I take it by your statement you can buy land with no road access is this true ???

Haven't you seen a rice paddy out in the middle of nowhere. Spent much time in rural Thailand?

Edited March 8, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[gotlost]

Here is my take if you are talking 4.4 rai that is un-titled, rice land, no road or power about 150,000 baht. If the land has a title, power, road about 300,000 baht. With her in Aus the land would have to be in someone else's name, but if you go for holiday to Thailand she can buy the land in her name. U do the conversion on money.

[dmax]

dont buy unless it has a chinote title deed paper or nor sor sam , if the land has no papers then you allready know the answer to that. rice paddy land per rai in kalasin / isaan is around ( my wife tells me ) 100 - 150 k near main road, then again wife could be wrong.

[tezzainoz]

Thanks you all have been a great help

My wife seems to be easily led and twice before I met her she has lost money in scam with close friends

All was at ease untill she told me they have a client ready to pay 50,000 baht more, but want her to have 1st choice

Does not sound Issan way to me so bells start to ring

How does the land exchange paper work take place

Do they need lawyers etc

[gotlost]

Thanks you all have been a great help

My wife seems to be easily led and twice before I met her she has lost money in scam with close friends

All was at ease untill she told me they have a client ready to pay 50,000 baht more, but want her to have 1st choice

Does not sound Issan way to me so bells start to ring

How does the land exchange paper work take place

Do they need lawyers etc

You do not need a lawyer the transfer is done at the Amphur land office (government)

[saintofsilence]

Not wanting talk about your relationship but be careful you could be getting set up and i bet there are dozens of falangs who have parted with the money but ended up with no land .

[donx]

First of all: Location, secondly the unit of land in Thiland is rai not acres, so how many rai are we talking about? Next what is the land, rice, farm, etc. Title or un titled. FYI 2.2 rai per acre. The part about the land office is correct .

Wife insists it is 2 acres or 4.4 Rai

Land is for rice but she want to grow Sugar Cane

Title or untitled she have no idea what you ask

all I can tell its 10 years ago in Kalasin the gov took over documents and you get a certificate to say you have the land

Apart from this I know nothing

The reason I am asking as its so easy to get ripped off in this area

But will try and get answers if needed to help with this topic

First let me say that I think an international acre equals 4,046.8564224 m2 (google "acre" if you want confirmation) which means 1 acre equals 2.529285264 rai. Thus 2 acres is more like 5 rai.

Ask your wife what documents the owner has that proves they are the owner. This is usually a land title that is recorded at the local land office. Sometimes, however, the document is more of a right to use the land. These types of documents are commonly traded by rural Thais and these rights usually are limited to agricultural uses only. You can't legally build a house on the land and you can't obtain a loan from a bank with this type of land.

[slapout]

As mentioned above, its 2.5 rai to an acre, thus 5 rai may be involved. Never heard of land measurement expressed in acres, with exception of conversation between farangs, Thai do not use it. The numbers being bandied around to and by your wife are incorrect, thus suspect. With all of this in mind the title, (type, mortgaged?, etc) would thus become suspect in my mind. What is the asking price for the land? Check the farming section and land prices, sugar cane farming, measurement, etc are discussed in detail by those who live in Thailand.

[tezzainoz]

Thanks you all have been a great help

My wife seems to be easily led and twice before I met her she has lost money in scam with close friends

All was at ease untill she told me they have a client ready to pay 50,000 baht more, but want her to have 1st choice

Does not sound Issan way to me so bells start to ring

How does the land exchange paper work take place

Do they need lawyers etc

You do not need a lawyer the transfer is done at the Amphur land office (government)

The question is HOW ?????

[johnnyk]

If you and your wife can't get on a plane then don't fork over any money.

I certainly would not take anyone's word. When it comes to hosing a falang family ties can loosen quickly.

[gotlost]

Thanks you all have been a great help

My wife seems to be easily led and twice before I met her she has lost money in scam with close friends

All was at ease untill she told me they have a client ready to pay 50,000 baht more, but want her to have 1st choice

Does not sound Issan way to me so bells start to ring

How does the land exchange paper work take place

Do they need lawyers etc

You do not need a lawyer the transfer is done at the Amphur land office (government)

The question is HOW ?????

An ampur is like a county or district. Your wife and the seller go to the amphur land office. Your wife will need her ID card and residency book (blue book). The seller will need the same . The seller will also need the title or Chanott as they are called. The sellers name must match that of the owners name on the Chanott. The amphur land office has on record all land holdings in their area. The Chanott is like our titles they have all the information about the property, size,location by coordinates, survey marks, all previous owners and present owners. It is an impressive document. The office will do a background check on this property to make sure that it can be legally sold. There will be an agreed selling price between your wife and the seller that well be documented this is what the selling tax is based on (always lower than the actual selling price . Your wife may be asked and if you are there you also to signed a document that monies to buy this land did not come from you that it is your wife's. You can and should have the land resurveyed same office, cost about 3000 baht. Survey may take a few weeks due to scheduling. If you arrive at the office when they open she can be in an out in about 3 hours. WITH THE CHANOTT IN HER NAME. You can pay for an attorny but IMHO use the money to buy the family a meal.

[ericthai]

Here is my take if you are talking 4.4 rai that is un-titled, rice land, no road or power about 150,000 baht. If the land has a title, power, road about 300,000 baht. With her in Aus the land would have to be in someone else's name, but if you go for holiday to Thailand she can buy the land in her name. U do the conversion on money.

how can you suggest a price like this? It depends on where in Thailand the land is, how desperate that owner is to sell. My wife just bought land with title 5 rai in Ubon with road access, in a small village with elec supply and water supply from Govt. 42K per rai. About 5 years ago bought 2 rai in Korat for 12,000 each, title, road access etc. the owners needed cash now so got a great deal.

Also the guy that said you BOTH, have to be there, this is false you dont and should not be there as this will be a problem if they find out you are providing the money to buy the land, as this is illegal. Yes, if she wants it in her name she needs to be there. The money must be from your wife if she is buying in her name, if her farther is buying not sure about the if the money can come from her or not. foreigners can not own land or provide the money to buy the land, if the govt feels the land is purchased using a foreigners money the land can be confiscated by the government.

In any case does not matter where the land is or the price. If you feel it is a good price and you are happy with it then let her buy it. It is true you do not need a lawyer everything can be taken care of at the land office. Good luck.

[InterestedObserver]

If the OPs wife is purchasing the land in her name, then the foreign husband must sign a Letter of Confirmation declaring that the money used for the purchase belongs entirely to the wife and that the land will not be matrimonial property. To do otherwise would make the entire transaction questionable and subject to future government intervention, those are the regulations. The husband is usually required to be present at the land office to sign but could get the Letter of Confirmation certified by a Thai embassy or consulate in Australia.

Edited March 9, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[slapout]

The requirement for the husband being in attendance at land office may be based on wife's last name. Our experience; If you were married in Thailand, wife uses your family name and her ID card reflects same, I had to sign above mentioned document.

[tezzainoz]

we where not married in Thailand and she still has her family name on her ID Card

The money for the land is money she earned in Australia, I just want to becareful as she has already been ripped off big time by friends

And I have heard time and time again how Issan mothers will come up with any scheme to part money from her daughter for herself

I have been told the land is really cheap, but at 300,000 baht for 2 acres with no knowledge if there is a title I am not to sure

but when they say they can get 50,000 baht more from someone else

Akarm bells start to ring

[InterestedObserver]

To be completely aboveboard you both fly to Thailand and both sign the necessary documents. She will need her Thai ID card and house book. Your wife hands over 300,000 baht to the seller and gets a Chanote, hopefully, title document in her name as new owner in return. There are taxes and fees to be paid to the land office. Sounds like you need to go to Thailand and perform due diligence, i.e. find out just what it is that you are paying 300,000 baht for.

Edited March 10, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[rgs2001uk]

we where not married in Thailand and she still has her family name on her ID Card

The money for the land is money she earned in Australia, I just want to becareful as she has already been ripped off big time by friends

And I have heard time and time again how Issan mothers will come up with any scheme to part money from her daughter for herself

I have been told the land is really cheap, but at 300,000 baht for 2 acres with no knowledge if there is a title I am not to sure

but when they say they can get 50,000 baht more from someone else

Akarm bells start to ring

"but when they say they can get 50,000 baht more from someone else"

You are of course correct, its utter BS, typical Issan style to make you think you are missing out on a bargain when no bargain exists.

Same as the old jewellery scam in Bkk, last day for this price sir, tomorrow can not give, please you save money buy today.

Total crap, tell them to go ahead and sell.

First thing is to find out exactly what the land title is, what is written on the back of it, are there restrictions?

Do you have access to the property?

Will you be able to put a house on the land?

Is the land restricted to farm use only?

Why are the owners wanting to sell?

If its such a bargain why didnt the sellers extended family buy the land?

Is the land in the pawn shop?

What is your wife going to do with the land, and how easy would it be for her to sell it.

You would be better off putting your money in a bank account in Australia, the money will appreciate faster than land in the middle of nowhere.

Proceed with caution, amazing how these amazing deals only come around when you arent actually in the country.

[donx]

To be completely aboveboard you both fly to Thailand and both sign the necessary documents. She will need her Thai ID card and house book. Your wife hands over 300,000 baht to the seller and gets a Chanote, hopefully, title document in her name as new owner in return. There are taxes and fees to be paid to the land office. Sounds like you need to go to Thailand and perform due diligence, i.e. find out just what it is that you are paying 300,000 baht for.

Since the OP sounds concerned about his wife being ripped off, I agree with your recommendation. This is the best way to proceed. In our case, the money was handed over to the seller using a cashier check which we had to get from a specific bank that the seller would accept. And for our case, the seller agreed to paying all taxes and fees.

If your wife is concerned about losing out on a good opportunity (which I'm not convinced that she is) then one way to proceed is what my wife and I did. We were in a similar situation with a piece of land that my in-laws had found for us to buy. We were in the US at the time, but planned to return to Thailand in a few months. We had friends provide a down payment for the land to the seller and my in-laws signed a contract for us to complete the land transfer by a specific date. That allowed us to return to Thailand, evaluate the situation first-hand all prior to going to the land office and placing the land title in my wife's name. I'm glad we provided a down payment because on the way to the land office the seller mentioned that he was hoping we would not make the deadline because after the agreement was signed, he was approached by a buyer willing to pay an extra 250,000 baht/rai for the land.

[nam-thip]

Understanding Land Sizes and Titles in Thailand

Most potential purchasers visiting Thailand will at first be somewhat confused as to the system of land measurement and land title definitions. Construction issues though follow the metric system.

Land prices are usually quoted in Baht per Rai or in the case of smaller plots, Baht per Wah or Square Metre.

There a number of land titles existing in Thailand, each of which have different meanings and implications. These titles need to be explained and the implications fully understood

before proceeding.

Land Measurements:

Land in Thailand is measured in Rai, Ngan and Wah.

The conversion rates between Thai measurements and Metric measurements are as follows:

• 1 Wah = 2 meters

• 1 square Wah = 4 square meters

• 100 square Wah = 400 square meters = 1 Ngan

• 4 Ngan = 1 Rai = 1,600 square meters

The conversion rates between Thai measurements and Acres are:

• 1 acre = 2.5 Rai (approximately)

• 1 hectare = 2.471 acres = 6.25 Rai (approximately)

Land Titles:

Chanote Land

This is the highest grade of Land Title and therefore the most sought after by any purchaser. It is issued by the Provincial Land Office, after the land has been detailed & accurately surveyed, by an official land surveyor, as well as being plotted in relation to a national survey grid and then marked by unique concrete numbered marker posts set into the ground within the boundaries.

When viewing land of this title one should be shown these posts to assure you of the extent of the size of the land.

The land size is depicted on an official Chanote document with the measurements and a detailed drawing showing the round posts at each corner of the plot.

The size and boundaries cannot be disputed in the future under any circumstances as each of the adjoining owners were required to be present at the measuring stage and will have given their signature to confirm the size of the plot being measured for Chanote.

Purchasing of Chanote land can be executed more quickly than other titled land as there are no disputes as to size or boundaries. No public notices are required nor can any surrounding owner dispute the measurements.

Nor Sor Sam Kor Land (NS3 Kor)

This is the next most reliable choice of land title. Each plot is surveyed and crossed referenced to a master survey and a corresponding aerial photograph.

Should there be any doubts as to the defined boundaries, it is a wise precaution to ask the owner to stake out the boundaries and ask the neighbouring land owners to confirm the vendors interpretation of such. ( A potential purchaser can obtain accurate confirmation from the Local Land Office surveyor, subject to a fee being paid.)

Nor Sor Sam Land (NS3)

This is the lowest land title which allows for legally building a property. It issued and maintained by the District land Office and certifies the use of land issued by the government to the proprietor of land not a possessory title, i.e. it is confirmed by law that a person holding Nor. Sor 3 has the legal right to possess the land and therefore the land title can be used as a legal document.

Nor Sor 3 is a floating map with no parcel points. It is issued for a specific plot of land and is not connected to other land plots. In the event that a neighbour disputes the size of the land the owner can engage the services of a local surveyor from the Land Office to define the actual size. In many cases, subject to the appropriate fees this land title can be upgraded to NS3 Kor and even Chanote.

Other land titles include the following:

Sor Kor Nung (SK 1), Tor Bor Tor Hock (TBT 6), Tor Bor Tor.

Permanent access to one's land is also of great importance. A public owned road, (property of the local government office) is by far the most sought after. These roads must be a minimum width of 6 - 8 metres.

Other plots may have a private access road for the owners of the land only, this is quite normal and perfectly acceptable. The owner and purchaser will naturally have a legally binding agreement to confirm this point.

[nam-thip]

Land purchase through a Thai spouse is forbidden: Land Dept

The director general of the Land Department has reiterated that foreigners using Thai nominees to buy land anywhere in the country will have their land title deeds revoked if caught – even if the nominee in question is a lawfully wedded spouse.

Land Department Director Anuwat Meteewiboonwut made the comments during a nationwide inspection tour of 30 provinces.

As for foreigners seeking to buy homes, they can do so through the Condominium Act, which allows foreign ownership of up to 49% of any project, he said.

Foreigners cannot use a Thai spouse as a nominee to buy property in Thailand, however.

“If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke the title deeds,” he said.

[nam-thip]

The following information comes from the website of the Department of Lands in Thailand:

Link to web-site which is in Thai: http://www.dol.go.th/

A Thai, who has an alien spouse (legal or illegal), would like to purchase land, an alien spouse has to confirm in a certify letter that the spending on land is his/her separate property (sin suan tua) or personal asset. The proceeding of certify letters are as follows:

1. In case an alien spouse lives in Thailand:

1.1 In case an alien is a legally spouse, a Thai and an alien spouse have to give joint confirmation in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands in front of the competent officer in the date of registration of rights and juristic act that the spending on land is sin suan tau of a Thai not sin som ros of the spouse.

1.2 In case an alien is an illegally spouse, a Thai and an alien spouse have to give joint confirmation in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands in front of the competent officer in the date of registration of rights and juristic act that the spending on land is personal asset of a Thai only not common property.

2. In case an alien spouse lives in Thailand but could not proceed according to No.1: In case an alien spouse lives in Thailand but in the date of registration an alien could not give written confirmation together with a Thai in front of the competent officer at the registration land office. A Thai and an alien spouse shall lodge the application of testimony form for confirming that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of only a Thai not sin som ros or common property by lodging the application to the competent officer at provincial land office or any branch land office.

3. In case an alien spouse lives overseas and could not lodge the application of testimony form according to No.1 and No.2. An alien has to contacts the embassy, consular or notary public for giving testimony of an alien spouse in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. The embassy, consular or notary public has to certify that person, who applies for certify letter, is truly spouse or they live together as husband and wife with a Thai. After, a Thai who would like to purchase land shall bring original of certify letter to the competent officer for registration of rights and juristic act accordingly.

4. In case a Thai who has legal or illegal alien spouse, if a Thai could show the evidence indicates that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset according to section 1471 and section 1472 of The Civil and Commercial Code, the competent officer could registers rights and juristic act for a Thai without testimony form of Thai nationality and an alien spouse according No.1 – No.3.

5. In case a Thai, who has alien spouse, purchased land before 23 March B.E. 2542 but informed or submitted a false document declaring that he/she is single. For relaxation of rule to a Thai, who has legal or illegal alien spouse, purchased or owned land after the date of marriage. And a Thai informed or submitted a false document to the competent officer declaring that he/she is single or a Thai has no alien spouse prior to the date of issuing letter of Ministry of Interior, Urgent No. MOI 0710/Circulation 792 dated 23 March B.E. 2542. An alien spouse and a Thai shall together give a written confirmation in certify letter in front of the competent officer that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of only a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. After, the competent officer retains documents in dealing file. If an alien spouse who lives oversea and could not give written confirmation together in front of the competent officer, an alien has to contacts the embassy, consular or notary public for giving testimony of an alien spouse in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. The embassy, consular or notary public has to certify that person, who applies the certify letter, is truly spouse or they live together as husband and wife with a Thai. After, a Thai who would like to purchase land shall bring original of certify letter to the competent officer for retaining documents in dealing file.

[GarryP]

The prices being quoted for land seem ridiculously high for the NE, unless the land is located in city limits or along main roads close to built up areas.

[gotlost]

First of all: Location, secondly the unit of land in Thiland is rai not acres, so how many rai are we talking about? Next what is the land, rice, farm, etc. Title or un titled. FYI 2.2 rai per acre. The part about the land office is correct .

Wife insists it is 2 acres or 4.4 Rai

Land is for rice but she want to grow Sugar Cane

Title or untitled she have no idea what you ask

all I can tell its 10 years ago in Kalasin the gov took over documents and you get a certificate to say you have the land

Apart from this I know nothing

The reason I am asking as its so easy to get ripped off in this area

But will try and get answers if needed to help with this topic

You state that its 4.4 rai and its for rice or cane and the asking price is 300,000 baht. In my part of Essan my wife can buy 10 rai of rice land for that kind of money. I thank she and you are being taken.

[abcz9]

First of all: Location, secondly the unit of land in Thiland is rai not acres, so how many rai are we talking about? Next what is the land, rice, farm, etc. Title or un titled. FYI 2.2 rai per acre. The part about the land office is correct .

if the land has no papers it is proberly tham gin land which is worth 15k a rai