Thailand To Jail Foreigners At Political Rallies

[RKASA]

Let it be known that I am a young, educated left-wing leaning Westerner, and I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

I do not support Thaksin Shinawatra, but I am vehemently opposed to military rule and double standards of the law.

I know for a fact that there will be soldiers dressed in civilian clothing and blue-shirts dressed as reds with orders to create reasons for the Thai army to open up on the crowds (which they have similar orders to do- they will be taking live ammunition with them to the protests). And I recognise that the Abhisit government and the Council which backs it has no intention to allow free and fair elections to take place ever again (unless they are made to.)

I am not being paid to attend this event, nor is there any likelihood of receiving any benefit or recognition for doing so (as I don't particularly want to make myself a walking target.) If for no other reason, I will be attending to let the Thai people know that they are not alone, to bear witness to what is coming, and to decrease the likelihood of a massacre of these poor, defenceless and disenfranchised people ala Thammasat (v1 and 2) and the 1992 incident.

Voltaire once said that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." If anyone truly believes in this statement, and wishes to avoid blood on the streets of Bangkok in 2010, then I suggest you join me.

Poor defenseless people? I guess you arrived after April of last year. Poor defenseless people do not set buses aflamae and send them careening into crowds and petrol stations. They do not throw rocks and bottles at firemen. That's what I saw last April. Sorry, I just don't understand how is showing up to show support for a group whose leaders have espoused violence as a means to an end going to "avoid blood on the streets". They may be disenfranchised, but please enlighten us as to the Red plan for un-dis-enfranchising them. We will know in a week whether the Reds keep their promise to be peaceful this time. I hope this thing comes off peacefully, but after seeing first hand the Red tactics last year, I think the only hope for non-violence is a lack of support.

And like it or not, by showing up to support the Reds you are supporting Thaksin. The Red agenda is to bring him back and put him back in power. Nothing more, nothing less. There obviously are some well-intentioned but mis-guided and gullible folks out there who believe that the Red movement is about "democracy". Which Red leaders have outlined a plan for life after Abhisit? They are stating they want to bring down the government- then what? A pro-red coup? Elections? Who will oversee the election? Who will certify the results? Anarchy is not the answer to Thailand's political situation.

Guess you never been in Watts. I lived there then.

[jdinasia]

Firstly, know that Thailand is leakier than a rusty bucket- and even people in high places talk. If you would walk out of your seedy clubs or dingy offices and rubbed your eyes and opened your ears, you would be amazed at what you might find out about this little place we call our temporary home.

Secondly, spare me your cowardice and your faux-common sense. It used to disgust me that people like yourselves, who benefited from (sadly wasted) Western educations, good social welfare systems and all the democracy and human rights that comes with your Western upbringings could be so smug in your justifications and tolerance for what is nothing less than a big, fat, black military dictatorship. But then I remember running into people like you at home, where your moral compasses were already non-existent, where you yearned for a place where people looked up to you, served you, had sex with you and would actually thank you for it afterward. A place where you were rich. A place where you were SOMEBODY.

It is obvious, gentlemen, that we are here for entirely different reasons. I am a political scientist who is about to bear witness to either the biggest success or tragedy in the history of the struggle for Thai democracy. And you are here as long as the alcohol is cheap, the women are easy and you feel like you are more important or successful here than you ever have been back home.

Thirdly, know that if the red shirts succeeded in toppling the government, I would hold them to their promise of restoring democracy, and would soon be working against them if they failed to do so. The funny thing is, if you were in my position I know you wouldn't do the same- because though you claim to oppose Thaksin for all the wrong things in this country, you are all too happy to sit back on your behinds and cheer on as the next dictators come along and take a dump in the mouths of anyone who opens them to ask for their vote back.

LOL

This really is rich! You claim your knowledge but just like I surmiised .... zero proof. Yes some "young left leaning ..." just happens to get the inside knowledge about the plans for the Democrats never to allow elections again, and the military to issue live ammo and open fire on crowds with no provocation and decides to go join what he so obviously thinks will be a blood bath.

If betting were not illegal not only would I bet that you will be nowjere near the protests, but also you are probably nowhere near Thailand right now.

[Netfan]

I wasn't referring to you, Ding- nor anyone else that can put their personal hatred of Thaksin aside for this one shot at a better future.

First things first- the people need their vote and their constitution back. Second thing- the military and the Council need to get the hel_l out of politics.

After that, the people of Thailand will decide.

EDIT: Netfan, the UDD isn't a political party. It has 6 principles and works toward the realisation of only those 6 principles. After democracy has been restored, it will be up to the political process and the people of Thailand to decide their own fate, as they would were they citizens of any other democratic country.

Kid, here's the part you are missing - the Thai people did vote. As a political scientist high up in an academic ivory tower, you should know that parliamentary government provides that if no party wins a majority of the vote then its a free for all - and the Dems were able to put together a coalition - nothing wrong with that. It's been done in Germany, Israel, Canada - you know, democratic countries. Yes, UDD is not a political party - but it does have political aims and ties to politicians and their parties. The UDD just doesn't like it that they weren't able to get their boys in and their funder is in danger of losing all his (and by extension their) money. You talk about democracy- is vote buying part of democracy? Suing the press every time it criticizes the government? You better do a little academic research before you throw your support behind a group.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Netfan

[ding]

johncitizen, where were you when Bush Inc. was stuffing peaceful sign-holding protesters into temporary prisons called "free speech zones"? We needed ya there! lol

This is qualitatively different. Tahksin is the Asian equivalent of Bush Inc. My Thai wife thinks it's silly for you to go if you're not getting paid. She's Isaan poor. Please don't get hurt for Tahksin and the illusion his dupes and hangers-on love to hold up. Tahksin did some good things at first and tossed some crumbs from his banquet table to the poor. But he gorged himself, and his crew did pretty well too. They want more money and power, nothing more to it. As a poli-sci guy you know history and the nature of politics. Maybe don't impute your awareness and intentions on the Tahksin folks promulgating this action. This is, as it always is, about money and power. He's Hobbesian and is no John Stewart Mill.

[Jingthing]

If betting were not illegal not only would I bet that you will be nowjere near the protests, but also you are probably nowhere near Thailand right now.

Dubai, perhaps?

[greasergirl]

all that talk

Thailand is no democracy

Indonesia, they have one

Thailand could learn from them

The reds are no political party,

they should be, they could be

just my five cents

in the moment only chaos,

on both or all sides.......

and for Farangs, take your camera

take some pictures, and feed them to twitter,

the blog's and Facebook

it's all about history

[LandRover66]

These two guys:

I'm still planning to go check out the rally this weekend

I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

Need to listen to these two guys (especially the first guy):

If you go to an event like this as a foreigner, your a first class idiot.

Foreigners should stay away

Why anyone want to put their arse on the line for any of these protests is beyond me

[johncitizen]

LOL

This really is rich! You claim your knowledge but just like I surmiised .... zero proof. Yes some "young left leaning ..." just happens to get the inside knowledge about the plans for the Democrats never to allow elections again, and the military to issue live ammo and open fire on crowds with no provocation and decides to go join what he so obviously thinks will be a blood bath.

If betting were not illegal not only would I bet that you will be nowjere near the protests, but also you are probably nowhere near Thailand right now.

As a matter of fact, I'll be staying nearby the Pan Fa bridge over the weekend (which is where many of Thailand's most brutal massacres have occurred,) and will meet you on it at a time of your choosing to discuss anything you wish. How's that for transparency?

Edited March 9, 2010 by johncitizen

[Moonrakers]

Rainman.

I seem to recall you saying that the yellows should be attacked, shot and even killed whilst they were protesting. Funny that you should be concerned about human rights now.

The words pot and black kettle spring to mind.

[wolf5370]

One thing that worries (well one of many to be honest) - if this is to remove the worry of immigrant workers swelling the numbers (enforced or not), then it isn't expected to be farang, but Buremese, Laos, Cambodians etc. Just how are they going to know that the protestors are immigramnts without arresting them - are they going to round up everyone? or go along checking IDs? Seems a litle hard to enforce other than the threat of the odd arrested troublemaker being caught out. Safety in numbers

Ofcourse they will not do a general ID check, but if a truck from a manufacturer comes and unloads some 80 Burmese workers at the protest site, then they will be handled etc. Some of us living here have even started to learn to recognize where people are from, in general. And so can the police etc.

Really? Strange that the cops check so many Thai people's papers on the way to/from Mae Sai when looking for Burmese then if they can so easily recognise them - and why so many Japanese, Koreans and filipinos get in places for Thai price unless they open their mouths. Indeed I have several filipino friends and they are always being confused for Thai by Thais, so maybe you should teach your amazing recognition skills to the Thai police. Oh, and for the record I live here too.

I would have thought any company stupid enought to use their own cattle trucks to transport their immigrant staff to the protest deserve to be locked up - in straight jackets.

Edited March 9, 2010 by wolf5370

[hardy1943]

Goverment running scared and basic attack on human rights...

Sounds like a DICTORSHIP?

[Harcourt]

"......Thaksin's supporters, known as "Red Shirts" for the colour they wear, ......"

So THAT"S why they call them red shirst....it's because they wear red shirts. I'd always wondered.

[whichschool]

I was at the last protest/riot, but it was more a case of them coming to the hotel i was staying at then the other way round, there were plenty of whiteys there watching the goings on, but had nothing to do with it.

[spongeman]

Will it be shown on pay per view or free tv ?

[seri thai]

In a country where I have to report my status every 90 days, beside the fact of holding a valid 1 year visa and paying a nice amount of taxes each year, I dont even want to be bothered to go to those Mass Rallies and protest against whatever they, the Red Shirts, protest against (Surpreme Court etc etc.) In a country where "protesters" throw feces in to the PM's House / Residence pretty much sums up most people opinion about these protesters.

The severe drought around the corner is nothing compared to what is planed, allowed and not allowed for the upcoming days. It is time to concentrate on more important issues than migrants showing up to the rallies. Not sure if the American Engineer, Burmese Contruction worker, Philippino Nanny, German Manager, Scottish Teacher or Australian Pub Owner had any strong interest in going there.

This Topic actually deserves a poll on whether some one even had an interest to participate, attend, watch or "show up" at these rallies.

I think the point of the report in the OP isn't to stop the odd farang (no pun intended) from wandering along to join the protest, but to stop any red sympathising employer of a large group of migrant workers from "volunteering" them to go along to the protest. How easy would it be for a factory owner employing, say, 1000 Burmese to tell them they're going to Bangkok to join the demonstration, and if they don't like it they can go home? It also doesn't require a huge leap in thinking to see that such a group could possibly be seen as expendable by the red shirt leadership, opening the way for violence enacted upon them or by them.

Thanks for the clarification Ball Point. I'll just paint a target on my forehead and pop along to the "democracy" monument (now there's an irony ) at the weekend.

Those of you with a nose for the history books will know the military ushered in a brief period of social reform in 1932, put up a load of monuments and quickly got tired of the idea when the implications dawned on them. "The road goes ever on and on" as Tolkien was wont to say.

[meelousee]

Is it ok to go and watch? Where is the best place to see it from?

AT HOME!

Watch TV Listen to the Radio.

Or read about it in the next day news print.

[meelousee]

Goverment running scared and basic attack on human rights...

Sounds like a DICTORSHIP?

I am wonder if a DICTORSHIP is anything like a can-noo or a ro-boat

[seri thai]

Monday, February 8, 2010 http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=17761&page=1

International Lawyers Question Thailand's Security Law

He said the law was “about government security not state security” and gave the military “a role in Thai politics.”

This role could be decisive in deciding who governs Thailand, according to fellow panelist Naruemon Thabchompon, of the Faculty of Political Science at Chulalongkorn University. She said the ISA allows military officers to effectively act as “kingmakers” in Thai politics, in keeping with what she termed the “Thai style of democracy,” which allows “prominent personalities to have a disproportionate say in [the question of] by whom and how the country is ruled.”

acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn, said the measure was a response to Thailand security and political conditions. “Laws come about and are made as these conditions change,” he said. (As are constitutions -which safeguard human rights)

Thanks for that Elcent,

The discussion, I assume, was meant to be about migrant groups but ended on something more topical. for those of you ranting on here Thaksin is NOT the issue though unfortunately he may yet be the result.

Edited March 9, 2010 by seri thai

[samran]

Let it be known that I am a young, educated left-wing leaning Westerner, and I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

I do not support Thaksin Shinawatra, but I am vehemently opposed to military rule and double standards of the law.

So much for your education. All you are doing is playing into Thaksins hands. He's the most allergic of them all to democracy. Yes, the man who decidied to stay as an unelected caretaker PM for 6 months. Yes, a real democrat there. The same guy who nobbled free speach, and had his ministers intimidate journalists. Yes. A true democrat.

Tell you what, why don't you go buy yourselves some (say) orange shirts and go start a "real democracy" protest movement.

Edited March 9, 2010 by samran

[samran]

As for the original article, sounds like they are going to arrest migrant workers who are receiving payment from other work not outlined in their work permits. Little other reason for them to be attending either pro- or anti- government rallies.

Burmese protestors regularly camp out the front of the Burmese embassy on Sathorn and are given (usually) a fair hearing, so my guess it is another case of woeful english language reporting here that TV readers have come to rely on.

Edited March 9, 2010 by samran

[somtampet]

Any farang that attends this walk are stupid,let the thais sort their own mess out,you are a visitor here and the jails are no fun

[seri thai]

Let it be known that I am a young, educated left-wing leaning Westerner, and I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

I do not support Thaksin Shinawatra, but I am vehemently opposed to military rule and double standards of the law.

I know for a fact that there will be soldiers dressed in civilian clothing and blue-shirts dressed as reds with orders to create reasons for the Thai army to open up on the crowds (which they have similar orders to do- they will be taking live ammunition with them to the protests). And I recognise that the Abhisit government and the Council which backs it has no intention to allow free and fair elections to take place ever again (unless they are made to.)

I am not being paid to attend this event, nor is there any likelihood of receiving any benefit or recognition for doing so (as I don't particularly want to make myself a walking target.) If for no other reason, I will be attending to let the Thai people know that they are not alone, to bear witness to what is coming, and to decrease the likelihood of a massacre of these poor, defenceless and disenfranchised people ala Thammasat (v1 and 2) and the 1992 incident.

Voltaire once said that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." If anyone truly believes in this statement, and wishes to avoid blood on the streets of Bangkok in 2010, then I suggest you join me.

Well I admire your spirit young man. A rite of passage. Some of us have dependants to feed however, tho I daresay a lot of the Isaan visitors have too but still will come.

Who knows? In years to come maybe it'll become sanitised by the TAT into a yearly event in Khao San Road?

Edited March 10, 2010 by seri thai

[animatic]

Going along to these rally sites is like asking to be given a Darwin Award,

for removing your genes from the gene pool through stupidity.

Especially now that Pottyjamin and the Thaksin spawn have gone scarppers out of harms way.

[aras]

Have they said anything about foreigners who attend pro-gov rallies?????

[Ricardo]

I'm still planning to go check out the rally this weekend

I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

Stay safe please, guys.

Thaksin pulling-out his family is a clear sign, if ever there was one, that this 'peaceful-protest' is not going to stay peaceful.

[johncitizen]

I'm still planning to go check out the rally this weekend

I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

Stay safe please, guys.

Thaksin pulling-out his family is a clear sign, if ever there was one, that this 'peaceful-protest' is not going to stay peaceful.

As I said earlier- having the protest stay peaceful is not part of the government plan. The aim of the game is to crush the red-shirts by an means necessary. And that is exactly why a very large foreigner/foreign media presence is vital. The UDD already have orders for everyone to bring cameras, and they will be filming suspected blue-shirt/special forces moles and turning them over to police. But make no mistake, this government will get away with murder unless their international reputation is on the line.

Here's how it will play out: First the police lines will "collapse" (planned), then the Army will open up with rubber bullets. If the Reds retaliate (which, if enough of them turn up, they might very well try) then the Army will switch to live rounds. 1992 all over again!

[anotherpeter]

I'm still planning to go check out the rally this weekend

I will be supporting the red shirts at their rallies on the weekend.

Stay safe please, guys.

Thaksin pulling-out his family is a clear sign, if ever there was one, that this 'peaceful-protest' is not going to stay peaceful.

As I said earlier- having the protest stay peaceful is not part of the government plan. The aim of the game is to crush the red-shirts by an means necessary. And that is exactly why a very large foreigner/foreign media presence is vital. The UDD already have orders for everyone to bring cameras, and they will be filming suspected blue-shirt/special forces moles and turning them over to police. But make no mistake, this government will get away with murder unless their international reputation is on the line.

Here's how it will play out: First the police lines will "collapse" (planned), then the Army will open up with rubber bullets. If the Reds retaliate (which, if enough of them turn up, they might very well try) then the Army will switch to live rounds. 1992 all over again!

There is lots of talk about non-reds dressing up as reds and causing violence, but I wonder if the opposite might be true too. The reds may also turn up in other colours and agitating them to make it look like others started it.

You would have to be open to the possibility of this happening.

There is no need for the government to CRUSH the reds. As soon as the money runs out they will whither away.

Fine for the foreign media to be there to report it in an unbiased way, but unless you are foreigner supporting bringing Thaksin back, then it's far safer to leave it to the media.

Edited March 10, 2010 by anotherpeter

[ingvar]

Now would be a good time to put the BS3000 red and blue shirt detector to use

[seri thai]

There is no need for the government to CRUSH the reds. As soon as the money runs out they will whither away.

How cynical! So the corollary is that those with the biggest amount of money will whither away last?

Edited March 10, 2010 by seri thai

[anotherpeter]

There is no need for the government to CRUSH the reds. As soon as the money runs out they will whither away.

How cynical! So the corollary is that those with the biggest amount of money will whither away last?

No. Not at all. What I am suggesting is that as soon as Thaksin's money, which is being used to support this protest, runs out, then the reds will all go home.