The 2010 Formula One Season

[Donnyboy]

Ferrari, that stinks. Alonso should be given a drive through.

blatant team orders,what a farce

bit of a boring race apart from the start

Edited July 25, 2010 by Donnyboy

[TBWG]

Ferrari, that stinks. Alonso should be given a drive through.

blatant team orders,what a farce

bit of a boring race apart from the start

It must be Christmas for Alonso!!!

TBWG

[TBWG]

Ferrari, that stinks. Alonso should be given a drive through.

blatant team orders,what a farce

bit of a boring race apart from the start

It must be Christmas for Alonso!!!

TBWG

Hmm

Don't think we have heard the last of this!

TBWG

[Mosha]

Now where's that geezer who thinks the FIA love McLaren?

Edited July 25, 2010 by Mosha

[Mosha]

Post race inter view is very telling.

To Alonso. "You made the over taking look easy"

However Massa's comments were more telling. "You don't need me to talk you through it." His response to what happened did you make a mistake at turn 6? "He passed me"

[bangkokrick]

Post race inter view is very telling.

To Alonso. "You made the over taking look easy"

However Massa's comments were more telling. "You don't need me to talk you through it." His response to what happened did you make a mistake at turn 6? "He passed me"

So we have Ferrari manufacturing the result, so should be disqualified. Red Bull with flexible front wings (against the rules), so should be disqualified. Hamilton wins again.

The F1 rules are selective so the result will stand.

Cheers, Rick

[silverhawk_usa]

Ferrari, that stinks. Alonso should be given a drive through.

I was hoping for the same. It would definitely send a message to the teams that the FIA is serious about enforcing the rules. But, then again, they aren't are they.

[Mosha]

Slater comment of the day for me was before the race started ."Yamamoto at the back with 2 virgins." Or is it my dirty mind.

[TBWG]

I've got to get this off my chest ~~~~ Ferrari have pulled this stunt in the past and I am not surprised that they have done so again, but to have effected the change of lead in such an amateurish manner is laughable.

But to then go out and try to deny it in such a blatant manner is insulting mine and everyone else's intelligence and does them nor F1 no credit.

I am used to politicians lying through there teeth and arguing black is white and unfortunately expect no better from them, but I don't want to see in in my sport!

As I write this the FIA stewards are looking into the matter, doubtless they will do nothing. Ferrari will then take this as vindication and add insult to injury by continuing their farcical denial.

Well I feel better now .........think I will go and have a lie down!!

TBWG

[silverhawk_usa]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferrari fined $100,000 USD per BBC.

Although I would be happier if the win were given to Massa, I guess one must say they (team) are all guilty, including Massa, as Massa did in fact break the rule by complying with the orders. Too bad. He deserved the win.

[Miiyai46]

Now where's that geezer who thinks the FIA love McLaren?

That would be me!!!

I must say that Ferrari did not give the message nicely to Massa and they have already been fined with 100,000 euros by the FIA...once again very unclear rules from the FIA as this fine means nothing to Ferrari.

Anyway, do u guys think that the "save gasoline" message we are always listening from the mclaren team does not means something like... u cannot overtake your team mate.

Cheers

[JetsetBkk]

Hi Jetset BKK

Just joined Box bz ~~~ How do you maintain an upload/download ratio? when you are in Thailand and they only accept UK progs?.

Sorry if this is a naive question but I am unsure of what I am talking about as I have never uploaded any programmes and would not know how to go about it!

Also surprised they can show F1 sessions, thought the poison dwarf would slap a writ on them!

TBWG

Hi TBWG,

What you have to do is download all the programmes that are shown as "FREE". These are typically the soaps - Eastenders, Coronation Street, Neighbours, Hollyoaks, Doctors, Emmerdale, River City, etc. Also, the first episode of any new series is FREE.

I have never uploaded any torrent that I have made myself - I don't know how to! I just keep downloading the FREE ones.

They are called FREE because they don't count towards your download bytes, but what you upload to other people does count towards your upload bytes.

But you have to start downloading them as soon as they appear on the website so that other people will upload them from you. This is usually an hour or so after they air in the UK, so it can be late at night here or in the early hours.

One trick that I use is to get TheBox to send me an email when any Soap type torrent is uploaded. You can set that up in your profile. I also use a Firefox extension - Gmail notifier - that alerts me when I have a new email for that particular email address. As soon as I see the alert, I check what has been added on TheBox and start it downloading straight away.

So that way you can get a good ratio and then you can download what you actually want to watch. I usually delete the soaps after a couple of days seeding because there is nobody left who wants them after that time - no peers show in my bit-torrent client.

The Formula 1 torrents - practice, qualifying and the race - are all "NEUTRAL". That means they neither count towards your download bytes or upload bytes.

I watched the qualifying today - great stuff. And in about an hours time I should have the actual race downloaded. I'm trying hard not to see any news about the result - and I'm not reading this forum again until tomorrow!

[Mosha]

Except Lewis was ahead of Jenson in this race. Lewis is more aggresive with the car. That is a fact. Now as for a back off mesage. How about Red Bull to Mark?

Edited July 25, 2010 by Mosha

[TBWG]

Oh dear ~~~ will they never learn, Ferrari are now saying they will not appeal the fine for the good of the sport.

Must they treat the fans as mindless morons.

Yes I know I don't like Ferrari & Alonso but they are not doing anything to endear themselves to me.

TBWG

PS Thanx for info jetsetBKK

[soihok]

That little episode was the most exiting part of the race.

I use the word "race" ,loosely.

[LuckyLew]

The amazing thing is that people seem surprised that Ferrari issued team orders

They have done it in the past and will continue to do so in the future

Feel sorry for Massa, but as a well paid employee he has one of two choices,

tow the company line or leave for another team

[Miiyai46]

Good and realistic - BBC Andrew Benson's blog

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/07/team_orders_rule_ties_f1_in_kn.html

It might be a stupid question but while I do understand your hatred of Alonso, why do you guys hate Ferrari as well??? Is it because they are the best team ever in F1??? Is it because in your opinion they are the only team that cheats???

[skydiver77]

That was a real stinko.

Sorry for Massa. The body language said it all and at the interview, a simple cryptic comment; 'He passed me.'

Suffering cats, call that racing?

Fortunately my own red mist had subsided for Moto GP.

Viewers were treated to the amazing spectacle of a man who broke his leg 7 weeks ago in a violent crash, [Rossi] battling it out for 3rd spot on the podium. Which he acheived in fine style. His body language showed that he gave everything for that result.

Now that's real racing.

F1 is turning into a shambolic parade.

[H2oDunc]

Alonso has form for throwing the teddy bear out of the cockpit when things are not going his way. He was being out driven by his team mate and could not pass him so was on the radio crying to the team. He needs to be stripped of all his points. Massa deserved the win. A rather boring race compared to the previous ones and Vettel shows he is a great qualifier but not a great racer. Isn't the fact they took the front wing from Webbers car to give to him as he broke his team orders as well ? In my opinion it is the same as telling a driver to move over ?

I fully expect Ferrari to get away with this episode though.

[powderpuff]

F1 farce as usual.

Euro rich boys playing.

You guys need all electric cars. Hug a tree today.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferrari fined $100,000 USD per BBC.

Although I would be happier if the win were given to Massa, I guess one must say they (team) are all guilty, including Massa, as Massa did in fact break the rule by complying with the orders. Too bad. He deserved the win.

Probably because the last guy that attempted to disclose and rebel against such team orders and tactics was lambasted for it and now sits on the sidelines for his actions competing in another series... This is why I find this so disturbingly mind boggling that that entire controversy is only one season on and memories are so short and self serving, it was the same primary driver/different team involved too, controversy seems to follow this one.... I don't blame Massa he's in a no win situation, (no pun intended)..

Edited July 26, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

The amazing thing is that people seem surprised that Ferrari issued team orders

They have done it in the past and will continue to do so in the future

Feel sorry for Massa, but as a well paid employee he has one of two choices,

tow the company line or leave for another team

See the above post and recall the reaction when these same sort of team orders were exposed on another team and the vilification that that driver received here and everywhere? Not from me mind you, I defended him and still do.....He was young, impressionable and trying to impress in F1 and his team took full advantage and intimidated him to keep quiet and then when it came out, all that was forgotten and he was vilified for being a grasser..

Edited July 26, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Vettel shows he is a great qualifier but not a great racer.

Slater has been crowing about Vettel since the season began since he anointed him the new wunderkind Schumie replacement and then yesterday he took the opportunity after qualifying to do a little back step by saying how Vettel once again shows he is the fastest for a "single lap", I bout fell off my chair when he said that, it was an obvious deliberate dig if not quite unexpected for him..

Edited July 26, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[JetsetBkk]

A question for those better informed than I: Do we see/hear ALL the "Team radio" communications that occur?

My guess is that we don't. So who decides which clips we hear? And why is it that the commentators always know when these "Team radio" communications are about to occur? It's almost as if someone is deciding which clips we can hear and then let the commentators know so they can stop talking and give air-time to the radio clip.

If that is the case, why were we allowed to hear the "team order" to Massa when he was told "Alonso is quicker than you (even though Alonso doesn't have the skill or balls to get past you)". OK, they didn't say the last bit, but it was true.

So who decided to let us hear it? Maybe someone who wants to keep F1 in the public eye, get more attention, more viewers, more advertisers, more money.

So it's all a game. F1 is a game and Alonso is a liar: "I don't know what happened but at the exit of turn 6 I had, er, I saw Phillipe a little bit slow and tried to overtake to take, er, every opportunity you have because it's a very difficult circuit to overtake.." blah, blah, BS, BS.

Eddie Jordan was right - "this is cheating, these two cars should be excluded".

[silverhawk_usa]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferrari fined $100,000 USD per BBC.

Although I would be happier if the win were given to Massa, I guess one must say they (team) are all guilty, including Massa, as Massa did in fact break the rule by complying with the orders. Too bad. He deserved the win.

Probably because the last guy that attempted to disclose and rebel against such team orders and tactics was lambasted for it and now sits on the sidelines for his actions competing in another series... This is why I find this so disturbingly mind boggling that that entire controversy is only one season on and memories are so short and self serving, it was the same primary driver/different team involved too, controversy seems to follow this one.... I don't blame Massa he's in a no win situation, (no pun intended)..

I completely agree with what you are saying. Massa is one of my favourite drivers. If he had won, it would have been a shared celebration of many fans commemorating a win on the one year anniversary of his horrific accident. A PR bonanza for Ferrari instead of creating the fiasco it has now become.

However, when commenting about the type of penalty/fine and to whom it should apply; if Massa had not pulled over there would not have been a rules violation. Therefore they could not penalize Alonso. Technically Alonso did nothing illegal, he only did his usual crying and complaining, and later passed his "slower" teammate. It had to be a penalty or fine for the team as whole.

I also wonder why it was done so blatant and visibly. If Massa had slowed just slightly (conserving fuel?) for another 2 laps and Alonso passed in a corner or normal passing zone it would not have been so obvious. Perhaps Massa did it on purpose?

I agree, if Massa wanted to keep his job he probably had little choice, but that is where integrity comes in. It has been upheld in law, sports, war crimes, and business, that "I only followed orders" is not an excuse. It is a shame Massa was put in that position.

[TBWG]

Good and realistic - BBC Andrew Benson's blog

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/07/team_orders_rule_ties_f1_in_kn.html

It might be a stupid question but while I do understand your hatred of Alonso, why do you guys hate Ferrari as well??? Is it because they are the best team ever in F1??? Is it because in your opinion they are the only team that cheats???

Hi Miiyai

I am no great fan of Ferrari because I feel they think they are bigger than the sport, they have also cynically used the FIA during the Moseley era using his obsessive hatred of Ron Dennis to obtain favorable rule changes and a special payment which nobody else was aware of, as well as scuppering the fund cap because it would hurt them most.

I have no allegiance to any particular team (soft spot for Williams aside) and being a Brit tend to support all British drivers. consequently I supported Ferrari during Eddie Irvines tenure.

That brings me on to a similar situation in 99 when Irvine was head to head with Hakkinen for the championship. Mika Salo had been drafted in after the other Ferrari prima donna had blown it at Silverstone. In the German GP Salo who was leading the race was asked to cede his position to Irvine which he duly did. (deja vu)

Afterwards Irvine presented his trophy to Salo saying he had rightfully won it and commented that to win a meaningful championship you had to do it yourself and not rely on charity. So there are ways of coming out of this situation with ones honour in tact!

As for Ferrari's $100,000 fine for fixing a race somehow it does not equate to £50,000,000 and being stripped of all constructors points for a mcLaren employee having another teams drawings.

I suppose what I am saying is that I support integrity in teams and drivers rather than just mindlessly supporting a winning team, consequently Alonso & Schumacher are low on my list of favorite drivers.

TBWG

[WarpSpeed]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferrari fined $100,000 USD per BBC.

Although I would be happier if the win were given to Massa, I guess one must say they (team) are all guilty, including Massa, as Massa did in fact break the rule by complying with the orders. Too bad. He deserved the win.

Probably because the last guy that attempted to disclose and rebel against such team orders and tactics was lambasted for it and now sits on the sidelines for his actions competing in another series... This is why I find this so disturbingly mind boggling that that entire controversy is only one season on and memories are so short and self serving, it was the same primary driver/different team involved too, controversy seems to follow this one.... I don't blame Massa he's in a no win situation, (no pun intended)..

I completely agree with what you are saying. Massa is one of my favourite drivers. If he had won, it would have been a shared celebration of many fans commemorating a win on the one year anniversary of his horrific accident. A PR bonanza for Ferrari instead of creating the fiasco it has now become.

However, when commenting about the type of penalty/fine and to whom it should apply; if Massa had not pulled over there would not have been a rules violation. Therefore they could not penalize Alonso. Technically Alonso did nothing illegal, he only did his usual crying and complaining, and later passed his "slower" teammate. It had to be a penalty or fine for the team as whole.

I also wonder why it was done so blatant and visibly. If Massa had slowed just slightly (conserving fuel?) for another 2 laps and Alonso passed in a corner or normal passing zone it would not have been so obvious. Perhaps Massa did it on purpose?

I agree, if Massa wanted to keep his job he probably had little choice, but that is where integrity comes in. It has been upheld in law, sports, war crimes, and business, that "I only followed orders" is not an excuse. It is a shame Massa was put in that position.

Actually that's kind of what I mean by Massa being in a no win situation and they (Ferrari) know it.. It's not likely that Massa will continue on with Ferrari there are other drivers being seriously considered and so that leaves him in the unenviable position of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't since he wants to impress other teams with his skills but is being sabotaged by such team tactics plus he doesn't want that label of not being a team player so it is more then likely his obvious allowing of Fernando to pass was exactly the only way he could bring attention to his plight without being labeled, it was strategic on his part, been there, been forced to do that..

They've got him by the short hairs in a real catch 22 as he is also fighting off those who believe he may not be fully recovered from his accident and may never be (more so neurologically then physically since the mind is the tool in control of everything else) so his stock is dropping, I feel for him very much and don't envy his position what-so-ever..

[silverhawk_usa]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferrari fined $100,000 USD per BBC.

Although I would be happier if the win were given to Massa, I guess one must say they (team) are all guilty, including Massa, as Massa did in fact break the rule by complying with the orders. Too bad. He deserved the win.

Probably because the last guy that attempted to disclose and rebel against such team orders and tactics was lambasted for it and now sits on the sidelines for his actions competing in another series... This is why I find this so disturbingly mind boggling that that entire controversy is only one season on and memories are so short and self serving, it was the same primary driver/different team involved too, controversy seems to follow this one.... I don't blame Massa he's in a no win situation, (no pun intended)..

I completely agree with what you are saying. Massa is one of my favourite drivers. If he had won, it would have been a shared celebration of many fans commemorating a win on the one year anniversary of his horrific accident. A PR bonanza for Ferrari instead of creating the fiasco it has now become.

However, when commenting about the type of penalty/fine and to whom it should apply; if Massa had not pulled over there would not have been a rules violation. Therefore they could not penalize Alonso. Technically Alonso did nothing illegal, he only did his usual crying and complaining, and later passed his "slower" teammate. It had to be a penalty or fine for the team as whole.

I also wonder why it was done so blatant and visibly. If Massa had slowed just slightly (conserving fuel?) for another 2 laps and Alonso passed in a corner or normal passing zone it would not have been so obvious. Perhaps Massa did it on purpose?

I agree, if Massa wanted to keep his job he probably had little choice, but that is where integrity comes in. It has been upheld in law, sports, war crimes, and business, that "I only followed orders" is not an excuse. It is a shame Massa was put in that position.

Actually that's kind of what I mean by Massa being in a no win situation and they (Ferrari) know it.. It's not likely that Massa will continue on with Ferrari there are other drivers being seriously considered and so that leaves him in the unenviable position of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't since he wants to impress other teams with his skills but is being sabotaged by such team tactics plus he doesn't want that label of not being a team player so it is more then likely his obvious allowing of Fernando to pass was exactly the only way he could bring attention to his plight without being labeled, it was strategic on his part, been there, been forced to do that..

They've got him by the short hairs in a real catch 22 as he is also fighting off those who believe he may not be fully recovered from his accident and may never be (more so neurologically then physically since the mind is the tool in control of everything else) so his stock is dropping, I feel for him very much and don't envy his position what-so-ever..

Ferrari have already renewed Massa's contract through the 2012 season. That of course does not prevent them from sidelining him or buying out his contract. That seems unlikely though as the contract was just announced last month.

[WarpSpeed]

I hadn't heard that I doubt they'd sideline him nor make him their third driver but so now he's relegated to second driver just as Rubens was, it's a crap deal and I'd be seeking a better option in his place, of course they waited until signing him before pulling this type of cheeky move..

Edited July 27, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Miiyai46]

Good and realistic - BBC Andrew Benson's blog

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s_f1_in_kn.html

It might be a stupid question but while I do understand your hatred of Alonso, why do you guys hate Ferrari as well??? Is it because they are the best team ever in F1??? Is it because in your opinion they are the only team that cheats???

Hi Miiyai

I am no great fan of Ferrari because I feel they think they are bigger than the sport, they have also cynically used the FIA during the Moseley era using his obsessive hatred of Ron Dennis to obtain favorable rule changes and a special payment which nobody else was aware of, as well as scuppering the fund cap because it would hurt them most.

I have no allegiance to any particular team (soft spot for Williams aside) and being a Brit tend to support all British drivers. consequently I supported Ferrari during Eddie Irvines tenure.

That brings me on to a similar situation in 99 when Irvine was head to head with Hakkinen for the championship. Mika Salo had been drafted in after the other Ferrari prima donna had blown it at Silverstone. In the German GP Salo who was leading the race was asked to cede his position to Irvine which he duly did. (deja vu)

Afterwards Irvine presented his trophy to Salo saying he had rightfully won it and commented that to win a meaningful championship you had to do it yourself and not rely on charity. So there are ways of coming out of this situation with ones honour in tact!

As for Ferrari's $100,000 fine for fixing a race somehow it does not equate to £50,000,000 and being stripped of all constructors points for a mcLaren employee having another teams drawings.

I suppose what I am saying is that I support integrity in teams and drivers rather than just mindlessly supporting a winning team, consequently Alonso & Schumacher are low on my list of favorite drivers.

TBWG

Exactly the same thing that you've said about Ferrari using the FIA to have favorable rule is being said in Italy and Spain with Mclaren ( especially since Hamilton is driving for them ).

Since the 2007 championship there have been several occasions where Hamilton has been strangely helped or not punished as it should have been. Three of the most discussed occasion are:

* Hungary 2007 - He got dragged out by a crane when he found himself in the gravel. Six other drivers where in the same position but only him got dragged out.

* Japan 2007 - Doing dirty tricks behind the safety car. No punishment at all for him

* Valencia 2010 - I believe we all remember this one.

I do not want to say that Mclaren ( Hamilton ) is the only one being helped by the FIA as in my opinion both teams have in many occasions being helped and punished unfairly just like in football sometimes your team is unfairly favored by the referee and sometimes punished.

If the FIA wants to avoid the team orders in F1, why don't they do like the Yamaha Fiat team in MotoGP where the riders from the same team do have a wall in the garage. Each rider have his own spare parts, bike settings, "team" manager, etc.?

Cheers