The 2010 Formula One Season

[F1fanatic]

Looks as if its going to be a long F1 viewing day tomorrow!

Should be fun, especially if there is rain in the morning for quali!

[rixalex]

So the Bulls take the front row. No great surprise really. This season they have had the strongest car by some margin and the fact that they are not leading the championship handsomely by now underlines to me how badly they performed generally this season. I think had any of the other top five drivers - ie Alonso, Hamilton or Button - been lucky enough to have been driving a Bull this year, they would have got the job done by now. Webber is too average and Vettel too mistake-prone.

Of course Hamilton of late has been the one making the mistakes, but i think a lot of that comes down to driving a car that struggles for pace. To have qualified in third, as he had before the penalty, shows his class. Today's race, starting from eighth, will be a very big test of his character, to work through the field without getting involved in any shunts that would not only end his title fight but really put him under the spotlight. It'll be tough, but i expect him to put things back on track.

Hoping for a good race guys and F1fan! Enjoy.

[bdenner]

Well I’m all motor sports’d out, perfect timing saw the build up and start to the Bathurst 1000 (V8 Supercars on Australia Network) through to their mid term break. So a direct x/over to the F1 qualifying. That complete turned back to the last few hours of the Bathurst race, well none Lownes and that olde timer Skaffe. No sooner than the podium presentation been completed there start of the F1 on Star Sports.

Great racing enjoyed them both. “Hang in there our own 2nd fiddle driver – Mark Webber”.

[F1fanatic]

So the Bulls take the front row. No great surprise really. This season they have had the strongest car by some margin and the fact that they are not leading the championship handsomely by now underlines to me how badly they performed generally this season. I think had any of the other top five drivers - ie Alonso, Hamilton or Button - been lucky enough to have been driving a Bull this year, they would have got the job done by now. Webber is too average and Vettel too mistake-prone.

Of course Hamilton of late has been the one making the mistakes, but i think a lot of that comes down to driving a car that struggles for pace. To have qualified in third, as he had before the penalty, shows his class. Today's race, starting from eighth, will be a very big test of his character, to work through the field without getting involved in any shunts that would not only end his title fight but really put him under the spotlight. It'll be tough, but i expect him to put things back on track.

Hoping for a good race guys and F1fan! Enjoy.

Good race - fun never mind (pretty much) who you support.

Whilst I agree that the Bulls have the best (quali) car at most circuits, it seems that their qualifying pace is not matched by their race pace - which is why they're not way ahead of everyone else in points.

The team seem to be (finally) sorting this out, but its taken them a long time.

The Mclaren has been v much on the pace recently, but LH has made too many costly mistakes and combined with the car probs, its not looking good for his WDC chances.

[Miiyai46]

Good news for all F1 fans as the Korean GP has been confirmed. The circuit located in Yeongam has received FIA approval.

Full story on the line here below:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/10/11382.html

Cheers

[rixalex]

Good race - fun never mind (pretty much) who you support.

Whilst I agree that the Bulls have the best (quali) car at most circuits, it seems that their qualifying pace is not matched by their race pace - which is why they're not way ahead of everyone else in points.

The team seem to be (finally) sorting this out, but its taken them a long time.

The Mclaren has been v much on the pace recently, but LH has made too many costly mistakes and combined with the car probs, its not looking good for his WDC chances.

Good race? I'm not so sure F1fan. I thought it was a bit processional myself. Good result for the Bulls though. I'd say they look favourite now, although that seems to change from race to race. Race before last it was Alonso.

Speaking of Ferrari, the debacle with Massa is i think the cost that they are paying for demoralising the man. He hasn't been the same since the team orders nonsense. OK, he might not have been great before it, but at least he was running close to Alonso. Now he's fallen away completely.

Lewis's challenge is almost at an end. He's been guilty of some mistakes and also of having some back luck. This is the way it goes at times. Earlier on in the year it was Vettel. Nothing a driver can do about it apart from keep their heads down and get on with the job. Nothing less than three wins i think is what it would take. Highly unlikely.

It was a shame we were denied seeing an Alonso / Lewis battle. When Lewis came out on new tyres he straight away set the fastest lap and was closing on Alonso quite quick. Shame that his gearbox denied us that spectacle.

Anyway. on we go to Korea...

[b19bry]

Good race? I'm not so sure F1fan. I thought it was a bit processional myself. Good result for the Bulls though. I'd say they look favourite now, although that seems to change from race to race. Race before last it was Alonso.

Suzuka was always going to be a Red Bull benefit, it's probably the best circuit of the year for them, barring a major upset they were always odds on for at least the win if not a 1-2. Sadly Suzuka is also another of those tracks where overtaking possibilities with the current cars is very difficult.

Speaking of Ferrari, the debacle with Massa is i think the cost that they are paying for demoralising the man. He hasn't been the same since the team orders nonsense. OK, he might not have been great before it, but at least he was running close to Alonso. Now he's fallen away completely.

Your thinly veiled jibe at Alonso is little more than that. Massa's pace relative to Alonso hasn't really changed throughout the course of the year and throughout his career he's alway been prone to the odd bout of 'red-mist'. It was obvious very early in the year which driver would prevail in the team. Whether you like him or not Alonso is the most complete package as a driver which is why Ferrari put such a high price on him. Massa was only made to look rather better than he was for a while by a totally disinterested Raikkonen.

Lewis's challenge is almost at an end. He's been guilty of some mistakes and also of having some back luck. This is the way it goes at times. Earlier on in the year it was Vettel. Nothing a driver can do about it apart from keep their heads down and get on with the job. Nothing less than three wins i think is what it would take. Highly unlikely.

It's not so much that Lewis has had 'bad luck' it's merely his luck has deserted him somewhat recently. He's always been one to ride his luck and in that department he's still well ahead, however if he'd chosen to use his head a little more in the previous couple of races he might have had the title all but done and dusted by now.

Anyways an interesting end to the championship in prospect

[rixalex]

Speaking of Ferrari, the debacle with Massa is i think the cost that they are paying for demoralising the man. He hasn't been the same since the team orders nonsense. OK, he might not have been great before it, but at least he was running close to Alonso. Now he's fallen away completely.

Your thinly veiled jibe at Alonso is little more than that. Massa's pace relative to Alonso hasn't really changed throughout the course of the year and throughout his career he's alway been prone to the odd bout of 'red-mist'. It was obvious very early in the year which driver would prevail in the team. Whether you like him or not Alonso is the most complete package as a driver which is why Ferrari put such a high price on him. Massa was only made to look rather better than he was for a while by a totally disinterested Raikkonen.

For one who claims to not be especially an Alonso fan, or however it was you phrased it, you certainly get defensive on the man's behalf! It wasn't an Alonso jibe so much, and it certainly wasn't thinly veiled - there was no veiling involved at all - it was direct and open criticism at Ferrari for the way they capitulated to Alonso's demands; and in the process, damaged Massa's confidence and self-esteem. My opinion is that his driving has been affected - motivation issues i would say - and that has cost Ferrari Championship points which they may live to regret, especially if Alonso doesn't win the Driver's Championship. That's my opinion. If you disagree with it and think that an incident such as that would have no affect on a driver then that's your opinion.

[b19bry]

For one who claims to not be especially an Alonso fan, or however it was you phrased it, you certainly get defensive on the man's behalf! It wasn't an Alonso jibe so much, and it certainly wasn't thinly veiled - there was no veiling involved at all - it was direct and open criticism at Ferrari for the way they capitulated to Alonso's demands; and in the process, damaged Massa's confidence and self-esteem. My opinion is that his driving has been affected - motivation issues i would say - and that has cost Ferrari Championship points which they may live to regret, especially if Alonso doesn't win the Driver's Championship. That's my opinion. If you disagree with it and think that an incident such as that would have no affect on a driver then that's your opinion.

Ok so it was a direct pop at Alonso (and Ferrari) tho you didn't mention his name

What I said was I wasn't a particular Alonso fan and I still maintain that though I recognise him as the most accomplished talent on the grid right now. It's just I get a little tired of all the nonsense that gets written and said about him (and Ferrari) on these pages.

Massa was a long way behind in the championship by the time of the team orders fiasco and nothing has really changed in terms of his level of performance since. He's just not in the same league frankly. I'd accept his pride is probably a little dented though.

I don't see the Ferrari team regretting what they did at all, it's achieved their initial objective. There's no doubt Alonso is really in the thick of the fight for the championship now. Ferrari knew all along whether he wins it or not could not have been guaranteed, and Massa was always going to be second fiddle to Alonso for the longer term given his prior performance.

All the above is just my opinion but I do think the facts pretty much support what I'm saying.

For the record I think of myself as an F1 fan with no particular long term favourite since Villeneuve died. Having said that, last year I was rooting for Brawn and I'm hoping Webber (or at least a Red Bull driver) makes it this year to the WDC.

Pretty much everything written here is opinion right ?

Edited October 14, 2010 by b19bry

[wackysleet]

b19bry.

For the record I think of myself as an F1 fan with no particular long term favourite since Villeneuve died. Having said that, last year I was rooting for Brawn and I'm hoping Webber (or at least a Red Bull driver) makes it this year to the WDC.

Pretty much everything written here is opinion right ?

I have to say that Gilles Villeneuve who I will admit to liking and at the time supporting during his relatively short career for Ferrari {debut race for McLaren} frequently raced like a man possessed, in his second race for Ferrari he collided Ronnie Peterson and somersaulted into the crowd killing two spectators.

I was at Zandvoort I think 1979 {the old memory is not what it once was} where he was 6th on the grid but by lap 11 he was leading until he got a puncture but even then after spinning out several times he continued to drive in an in an inspired way until eventually he completely lost the tyre before returning to the pits in a shower of sparks only to retire.

Jacques, actually achieved more in his first two seasons of F1 than his father in his whole career but I am in no doubt which one had the charisma.

[b19bry]

I have to say that Gilles Villeneuve who I will admit to liking and at the time supporting during his relatively short career for Ferrari {debut race for McLaren} frequently raced like a man possessed, in his second race for Ferrari he collided Ronnie Peterson and somersaulted into the crowd killing two spectators.

True, a very sad event but the spectators killed were in a prohibited almost suicidally dangerous area.

I was at Zandvoort I think 1979 {the old memory is not what it once was} where he was 6th on the grid but by lap 11 he was leading until he got a puncture but even then after spinning out several times he continued to drive in an in an inspired way until eventually he completely lost the tyre before returning to the pits in a shower of sparks only to retire.

Jacques, actually achieved more in his first two seasons of F1 than his father in his whole career but I am in no doubt which one had the charisma.

We must be of the same era then, I remember the Dutch race too !

I was at Silverstone for his F1 debut and can still remember the tyres on his M23 (which he qualified ahead of Mass in the M26) screaming for mercy as he power-slid round Copse lap after lap. Sadly I was in Belgium the day he died

He was an inspiration to many fans and most of his peers were in awe and had total respect for him.

[wackysleet]

I have to say that Gilles Villeneuve who I will admit to liking and at the time supporting during his relatively short career for Ferrari {debut race for McLaren} frequently raced like a man possessed, in his second race for Ferrari he collided Ronnie Peterson and somersaulted into the crowd killing two spectators.

True, a very sad event but the spectators killed were in a prohibited almost suicidally dangerous area.

I was at Zandvoort I think 1979 {the old memory is not what it once was} where he was 6th on the grid but by lap 11 he was leading until he got a puncture but even then after spinning out several times he continued to drive in an in an inspired way until eventually he completely lost the tyre before returning to the pits in a shower of sparks only to retire.

Jacques, actually achieved more in his first two seasons of F1 than his father in his whole career but I am in no doubt which one had the charisma.

We must be of the same era then, I remember the Dutch race too !

I was at Silverstone for his F1 debut and can still remember the tyres on his M23 (which he qualified ahead of Mass in the M26) screaming for mercy as he power-slid round Copse lap after lap. Sadly I was in Belgium the day he died

He was an inspiration to many fans and most of his peers were in awe and had total respect for him.

He actually had amazing car control, better in fact than any I had seen before or since all down I suspect to his previous experience snowmobile racing but at Zandvoort he was driving that 3 wheeled Ferrari with the n/s/r wheel at righ angles, prior to completely losing the tyre he passed the pits on a flat tyre determined to keep going.

Funny how some of the old races are still memorable occassions, at least for me, but most of the new stuff and the boring venues are soon forgotten.

[rixalex]

Ok so it was a direct pop at Alonso (and Ferrari) tho you didn't mention his name

Sorry, i thought it was obvious enough to not need mention. Get my fill of rolling eyes from her indoors thanks.

What I said was I wasn't a particular Alonso fan and I still maintain that though I recognise him as the most accomplished talent on the grid right now. It's just I get a little tired of all the nonsense that gets written and said about him (and Ferrari) on these pages.

Most accomplished talent? Well he is right up there i would agree, but if you could somehow neatly snip out the period of his career at McLaren, he would be much higher for me. At McLaren he faced driving along side an up and coming talent and when that driver (need i mention his name for you?) began to challenge him for honours he got ruffled and didn't know how to deal with it. When the team refused to capitulate to his demands of being given number one driver advantages - the only way he realised he would be able to beat the upstart - he went into one almighty sulk that culminated in all the business of him trying to force McLaren's hand with the threat of revealing inside information. Well that was my take on his time at McLaren. I'm quite sure yours is different.

Massa was a long way behind in the championship by the time of the team orders fiasco and nothing has really changed in terms of his level of performance since. He's just not in the same league frankly. I'd accept his pride is probably a little dented though.

What has changed is that before he wasn't a great driver but he did have a deal of confidence from his last season with Kimi and he was highly motivated. I saw the same confidence and motivation from him at the beginning of this season. It's not there now and the team orders nonsense is partly responsible. How that affects the team's Championship standings we will never know, but it is my opinion that it has affected it.

[b19bry]

He actually had amazing car control, better in fact than any I had seen before or since all down I suspect to his previous experience snowmobile racing but at Zandvoort he was driving that 3 wheeled Ferrari with the n/s/r wheel at righ angles, prior to completely losing the tyre he passed the pits on a flat tyre determined to keep going.

Funny how some of the old races are still memorable occassions, at least for me, but most of the new stuff and the boring venues are soon forgotten.

He was a special talent, especially if you consider some of the cars he was driving !

The cars and drivers were undoubtedly more exciting plus you could get a lot closer to the action & into the pit area, paddock etc. Enforced pit stops, overuse of safety cars and the overall difficulty of overtaking have done nothing to improve the spectacle nowadays.

Back then there was camaraderie between the drivers and mutual respect unlike the petty back-biting between differing factions we see all to often today.

[b19bry]

Most accomplished talent?

If think you need to take off your Hamilton goggles..........just my opinion

What has changed is that before he wasn't a great driver but he did have a deal of confidence from his last season with Kimi and he was highly motivated. I saw the same confidence and motivation from him at the beginning of this season. It's not there now and the team orders nonsense is partly responsible. How that affects the team's Championship standings we will never know, but it is my opinion that it has affected it.

The indifference of Raikkonen was the reason Massa's confidence went sky high. He was never in reality more than a solid number 2, once Alonso arrived the whole picture was bound to change. I think I intimated as much before the season began.

I don't see how the team orders affects the championship other than giving Alonso a real fighting chance, Massa was never in it.

[rixalex]

Most accomplished talent?

If think you need to take off your Hamilton goggles..........just my opinion

More rolling eyes? Not possible to make your point without patronizing? Why not actually respond to the points i made? If i'm wrong, tell me how and why. Accusing me of being biased is a cheap shot and one i could easily throw back your way.

Just because you hold a driver in high-esteem, doesn't make you blind to their faults or blind to other drivers' merits.

[rixalex]

I don't see how the team orders affects the championship other than giving Alonso a real fighting chance, Massa was never in it.

Team orders affects the driver's championship if they de-motivate one of the drivers in a team. Massa has been de-motivated, in my opinon.

[b19bry]

More rolling eyes? Not possible to make your point without patronizing? Why not actually respond to the points i made? If i'm wrong, tell me how and why. Accusing me of being biased is a cheap shot and one i could easily throw back your way.

Just because you hold a driver in high-esteem, doesn't make you blind to their faults or blind to other drivers' merits.

Hey lighten up, I'm not trying to be patronising, my use of an emoticon is just to inject a little humour, it has no serious undertones.

I didn't respond to your 'points' as I feel it's pointless getting into a slanging match, suffice to say you were right when you inferred I see it differently.

When I see phraseology along the lines of 'capitulate to his demands', 'almighty sulk' etc. my eye's start to glaze over. It's obvious where you're coming from and nothing I write is likely to change your view.

There's no doubt any hard-core Hamilton fan (not just you) has a hard time evaluating Alonso objectively,same with the McLaren v Ferrari wars, I think that's been shown time and again on these pages. That's not a cheap shot it's simply human emotions at play.

Again, this is all just my opinion

[b19bry]

I don't see how the team orders affects the championship other than giving Alonso a real fighting chance, Massa was never in it.

Team orders affects the driver's championship if they de-motivate one of the drivers in a team. Massa has been de-motivated, in my opinon.

OK right, so Massa maybe finishes 7th instead of 6th in the WDC, that's gotta be a big concern to Ferrari as a team.

[rixalex]

I don't see how the team orders affects the championship other than giving Alonso a real fighting chance, Massa was never in it.

Team orders affects the driver's championship if they de-motivate one of the drivers in a team. Massa has been de-motivated, in my opinon.

OK right, so Massa maybe finishes 7th instead of 6th in the WDC, that's gotta be a big concern to Ferrari as a team.

They won't care too much if Massa finishes 7th rather than 6th in the WDC, but they will care if Ferrari finishes the WCC in 3rd rather than 2nd. I'd say with the way Massa is driving, there is a big danger of this happening. Massa might not be a great driver, but he has driven better than he is now.

[rixalex]

Hey lighten up, I'm not trying to be patronising, my use of an emoticon is just to inject a little humour, it has no serious undertones.

Then use a smilie or a wink. Rolling eyes doesn't infer humour. More like superiority.

I didn't respond to your 'points' as I feel it's pointless getting into a slanging match, suffice to say you were right when you inferred I see it differently.

Who is slanging? I made my points in a calm rational manner, and there were no personal comments about you. So you see it differently. OK. Great. Tell me why. Isn't that what we are here for? Discussions.

[b19bry]

They won't care too much if Massa finishes 7th rather than 6th in the WDC, but they will care if Ferrari finishes the WCC in 3rd rather than 2nd. I'd say with the way Massa is driving, there is a big danger of this happening. Massa might not be a great driver, but he has driven better than he is now.

Just my opinion but, I think Ferrari would regard that a price worth paying for a shot at the WDC.

[b19bry]

Hey lighten up, I'm not trying to be patronising, my use of an emoticon is just to inject a little humour, it has no serious undertones.

Then use a smilie or a wink. Rolling eyes doesn't infer humour. More like superiority.

I must admit I wasn't cognisant of the subtleties of this, to me an emoticon was just a funny face, nevertheless consider my wrists properly slapped

I didn't respond to your 'points' as I feel it's pointless getting into a slanging match, suffice to say you were right when you inferred I see it differently.

Who is slanging? I made my points in a calm rational manner, and there were no personal comments about you. So you see it differently. OK. Great. Tell me why. Isn't that what we are here for? Discussions.

No, you didn't attack me personally I wasn't saying you were. I'm more than happy to discuss the merits of a particular driver on the track. What I mean't was I don't want to get into a slagging match about the personal merits of the man (as in discussing whether he's sulky). I've never met him and frankly I don't believe much of what's reported on him in the British media.

From what I've seen of his driving this year, he's the most 'complete' driver currently on the grid. He's quick, intelligent and consistent. Unusually in the earlier part of the year he did make a few mistakes, but he's now bounced back. With or without the team orders fiasco he's outclassed Massa by some margin.

[rixalex]

There's no doubt any hard-core Hamilton fan (not just you) has a hard time evaluating Alonso objectively,same with the McLaren v Ferrari wars, I think that's been shown time and again on these pages. That's not a cheap shot it's simply human emotions at play.

Discrediting the views of others as being biased, on the basis of people being humans and people having emotions, is a cheap shot when you exclude your own opinions from being affected in this way.

I'm not a "hard-core" fan of anyone, and i resent the label. I hold some drivers in higher-esteem than others is all. No different from you. Stop putting your own opinions up on some lofty neutral, unbiased, objective perch. You are human and you have emotions just like the rest of us. Your view is as susceptible to being swayed by personal feelings as mine or anyone else's. Stop pretending otherwise.

[rixalex]

I must admit I wasn't cognisant of the subtleties of this, to me an emoticon was just a funny face, nevertheless consider my wrists properly slapped

If one is cognisant of subtleties in real life, one is cognisant of the subtleties here.

[rixalex]

No, you didn't attack me personally I wasn't saying you were. I'm more than happy to discuss the merits of a particular driver on the track. What I mean't was I don't want to get into a slagging match about the personal merits of the man (as in discussing whether he's sulky). I've never met him and frankly I don't believe much of what's reported on him in the British media.

Discussing Alonso's time at McLaren can't only be about what happened on the track because so much happened off it that is relevant to why things worked out the way they did. If that's an area you can't discuss, fine.

From what I've seen of his driving this year, he's the most 'complete' driver currently on the grid. He's quick, intelligent and consistent. Unusually in the earlier part of the year he did make a few mistakes, but he's now bounced back. With or without the team orders fiasco he's outclassed Massa by some margin.

Alonso is just off the back of two back to back wins and a strong third place finish, so right now, at this particular point in the season, he is i think doing the best and most consistent job. If we were having this discussion three or four races ago, we might have different views. And come three races time, should say Vettel win them all and Alonso suffer a couple of DNFs, opinions might shift towards the German.

You're only as good as your last race as they say.

[b19bry]

There's no doubt any hard-core Hamilton fan (not just you) has a hard time evaluating Alonso objectively,same with the McLaren v Ferrari wars, I think that's been shown time and again on these pages. That's not a cheap shot it's simply human emotions at play.

Discrediting the views of others as being biased, on the basis of people being humans and people having emotions, is a cheap shot when you exclude your own opinions from being affected in this way.

I'm not a "hard-core" fan of anyone, and i resent the label. I hold some drivers in higher-esteem than others is all. No different from you. Stop putting your own opinions up on some lofty neutral, unbiased, objective perch. You are human and you have emotions just like the rest of us. Your view is as susceptible to being swayed by personal feelings as mine or anyone else's. Stop pretending otherwise.

I'm not discrediting anyone and my views are only as valid as the next persons (I'm not on some lofty perch), I'm just putting things in perspective. I still believe that any Hamilton fan for whatever reason is likely not a great fan of Alonso and therefore has some bias.

Agreed I'm susceptible to maybe having a bias toward Webber who I hope will win the WDC this year.

[b19bry]

From what I've seen of his driving this year, he's the most 'complete' driver currently on the grid. He's quick, intelligent and consistent. Unusually in the earlier part of the year he did make a few mistakes, but he's now bounced back. With or without the team orders fiasco he's outclassed Massa by some margin.

Alonso is just off the back of two back to back wins and a strong third place finish, so right now, at this particular point in the season, he is i think doing the best and most consistent job. If we were having this discussion three or four races ago, we might have different views. And come three races time, should say Vettel win them all and Alonso suffer a couple of DNFs, opinions might shift towards the German.

You're only as good as your last race as they say.

I think Alonso has done a good job over the course of the year (barring a couple of mistakes) considering the car wasn't really performing that well until the last few races. Vettel (& maybe the team) hasn't really done such a good job considering he's had the best car all season. As we went into the season he looked like he would walk the WDC and I think Vettel is still a season or two away from being the 'finished article'.

[rixalex]

I'm not discrediting anyone and my views are only as valid as the next persons (I'm not on some lofty perch), I'm just putting things in perspective.

The first part of your sentence is contradicted by the second part. You think that your opinion is as valid as the next person's, but you consider that your view puts things into perspective.

[b19bry]

I'm not discrediting anyone and my views are only as valid as the next persons (I'm not on some lofty perch), I'm just putting things in perspective.

The first part of your sentence is contradicted by the second part. You think that your opinion is as valid as the next person's, but you consider that your view puts things into perspective.

Not at all, you're choosing to cut 'a part' of what I write and use it out of context. You should have quoted the next line which formed part of what I was referring to in 'perspective'

It's just my opinion !