Cursing Rituals Kick Off Red Shirts Protests

[mazeltov]

Cursing? Do the Buddhist monks teach that? And where are those 20,000 monks? Do Thai schools teach them to curse, or do good Thai parents teach them to curse?

in case you don't know, that isn't your richard gere new age style of buddhism. folks here are full of superstition and other things that don't fit the pure tenets. you can see that on all lvls of the sociaty and at the different front of this conflict.

if you wanna take cheap shots at silly beliefs look at the "6000 rifles stolen from barracks' thread and try to exlain yourself how possible is that.

[ballpoint]

They'll really be cursing when they find there's not enough money to pay them all and they've been duped. The whole thing will probably end in a cursing ritual too.

[mazeltov]

They get upset when people label them as thuggish gullible ignorant rubes. Then they pull this cursing stunt. Their PR guy, he should be fired!

nobody likes to get called "thuggish gullible ignorant rube". doesn't matter if it's true or not or would you enjoy if somebody call you like that?

[gemini81]

The Reds are soooo negative. All this cursing, the violent tshirts they were wearing yesterday of knuckle dragging cartoon thugs with clubs....I'm proud of the government for taking the high ground and asking for them to protest, but peacefully. Let's hope they can abide by that (though the large amounts of Baht being offered to incite riot may prove to be too tempting).

at least the lights are flickering out on this small gathering. Yeah, they sure have a violent streak and they seem to thrive on it. Imagine the brutality if they got what they wanted, they'd be hurting people left, right, and center.

I dunno, thats not a lot of baht offered, considering fuel and sustaining yourself here in BKK for several days....let alone the family buffaloes and ol' grandma.

[sbk]

Keep it civil folks

[ding]

They get upset when people label them as thuggish gullible ignorant rubes. Then they pull this cursing stunt. Their PR guy, he should be fired!

I know. I was going to say something funny - but after Bush I better not!

[Sisaketmike]

First the big protest was going to be Friday. Then they said it would be on Sunday. Now they are saying Monday?

Well, what do you do when you invite a million people to a party and only 30,000 show up?

I’ve seen a few hundred reds heading towards Korat yesterday, but I guess they used Mr. Thaksin’s tea money to get drunk. Mr. Thaksin why don’t you come back to speak to them? Free accommodation is available for you.

[ManilaLover]

Goood... now they finally will learn by experience that all those supersticious ritual crap is big BS !

[kraxlhuber]

Let's not be too critical. I know a lot of people who say something and then knock on wood!

Most of us have our little superstitions.

I agree,BUT some have a wooden head mostly birch to knock on wood they knock on their heards.

I live for 35 come and go in thailand,I do not contradict my wifes (superstition or not).

If you have a strong religious believe of any inclination you dont have to fear anything exept :

dont walk under a ladder beware a black cat crossing your way from right to left,

today the missus started builing a riceburner kitchen annex and the doors front/back have to be offset,

beats me why,same the stairs to your adobe cannot directly face the gate etc.etc.

Don't call the ghosts or you never get rid of e'm.

[brahmburgers]

Goood... now they finally will learn by experience that all those supersticious ritual crap is big BS !

Sorry to say they will never learn it's BS. Superstition is ingrained in the Thai psyche. There are those apologists who'll say, "well, what about westerners and Christian beliefs and metaphysics, etc" Yes, there are many westerners who believe one set of hocus pocus or another. The difference is, westerners can poke fun at themselves when it's brought to their attention. Whereas Thais are deadly serious in their hocus pocus beliefs - they're immersed in them from the time they emerge from the womb. Any Thai who doesn't seriously believe in (and fear) a host of ghosts was probably not brought up in Thailand.

[whiterussian]

I believe they have a strange ritual in America, where children chant this in front of a red and blue cloth before each day at school. Very odd.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

According to the United States Flag Code, the Pledge "should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

Edited March 13, 2010 by whiterussian

[Jingthing]

I believe they have a strange ritual in America, where children chant this in front of a red and blue cloth before each day at school. Very odd.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

According to the United States Flag Code, the Pledge "should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

The God part was not added until fairly recently. There is no law saying you must follow that ritual although not doing so could cause social problems. There was a time in my youth when I did not do the pledge as a protest against the government, guess what, they didn't send me to Siberia, or even Minnesota. A patriotic ritual anyway, are you suggesting it is comparable to negative curses?

[473geo]

Not half as bad as the hocus pocus belief that if you give a shopkeeper a donation every week for the government - some some good fairy might just turn up with a couple of million for you!!!...........but it does happen...... so if you keep believing!!!!......I have actually put a curse on a couple of people so they don't win......they don't even know...and guess what.........the curse is working.....no millions for them.......so you better believe!!!!

[473geo]

Ghost post........

Edited March 13, 2010 by 473geo

[MAJIC]

This Rally has the Hallmark of a Monumental failure.

Cant see it picking up from here either!

[SomTumTiger]

This Rally has the Hallmark of a Monumental failure.

Cant see it picking up from here either!

May all your guesses be right sir.

[anotherpeter]

Sorry to say they will never learn it's BS. Superstition is ingrained in the Thai psyche. There are those apologists who'll say, "well, what about westerners and Christian beliefs and metaphysics, etc" Yes, there are many westerners who believe one set of hocus pocus or another. The difference is, westerners can poke fun at themselves when it's brought to their attention. Whereas Thais are deadly serious in their hocus pocus beliefs - they're immersed in them from the time they emerge from the womb. Any Thai who doesn't seriously believe in (and fear) a host of ghosts was probably not brought up in Thailand.

Try going to the bible belt in the US and poke fun at their beliefs.

[473geo]

This Rally has the Hallmark of a Monumental failure.

Cant see it picking up from here either!

It's a cunning plan.....and you can't see it.......the red shirts are now giving the impression publicly that support is dwindling almost none existant........

Convince the government this is great opportunity to call an election.......

Election called.....out pop all the red shirt voters....mission accomplished...... .

dam_n I've given the game away now!!!

[landofthefree]

This Rally has the Hallmark of a Monumental failure.

Cant see it picking up from here either!

It's a cunning plan.....and you can't see it.......the red shirts are now giving the impression publicly that support is dwindling almost none existant........

Convince the government this is great opportunity to call an election.......

Election called.....out pop all the red shirt voters....mission accomplished...... .

dam_n I've given the game away now!!!

As a Nation newspaper reader I have been reading talk about violence when the red shirts come for weeks. Now they're here where is the violence? I now believe that this rag just makes stuff up to please their Yellow shirt masters.

[brahmburgers]

Sorry to say they will never learn it's BS. Superstition is ingrained in the Thai psyche. There are those apologists who'll say, "well, what about westerners and Christian beliefs and metaphysics, etc" Yes, there are many westerners who believe one set of hocus pocus or another. The difference is, westerners can poke fun at themselves when it's brought to their attention. Whereas Thais are deadly serious in their hocus pocus beliefs - they're immersed in them from the time they emerge from the womb. Any Thai who doesn't seriously believe in (and fear) a host of ghosts was probably not brought up in Thailand.

Try going to the bible belt in the US and poke fun at their beliefs.

True, there are fanatics in every nook and cranny. I wrote a book which debunked hocus pocus beliefs, and on two separate occassions, elder farang (arch defenders of metaphysics) have gotten downright indignant with me about the text. So yes, many people have a lot of emotion wrapped around defending their belief systems. I still maintain that Thais don't see their beliefs as a belief system, but rather as 'just the way it is.' Perhaps that's seems like a an insignificant difference. Ok, here's an example: If you asked a hard right Christian about the veracity of 'immaculate conception' he/she might talk about it within the context of an intellectual exercise.

In comparison, if you were to ask a Thai whether ghosts exist, the person might draw a blank, because to the Thai, it's a given that ghosts exist. It's like asking a person whether trees are plants.

[animatic]

This Rally has the Hallmark of a Monumental failure.

Cant see it picking up from here either!

It's a cunning plan.....and you can't see it.......the red shirts are now giving the impression publicly that support is dwindling almost none existant........

Convince the government this is great opportunity to call an election.......

Election called.....out pop all the red shirt voters....mission accomplished...... .

dam_n I've given the game away now!!!

As a Nation newspaper reader I have been reading talk about violence when the red shirts come for weeks. Now they're here where is the violence? I now believe that this rag just makes stuff up to please their Yellow shirt masters.

Don't hold your breath...

[animatic]

Sorry to say they will never learn it's BS. Superstition is ingrained in the Thai psyche. There are those apologists who'll say, "well, what about westerners and Christian beliefs and metaphysics, etc" Yes, there are many westerners who believe one set of hocus pocus or another. The difference is, westerners can poke fun at themselves when it's brought to their attention. Whereas Thais are deadly serious in their hocus pocus beliefs - they're immersed in them from the time they emerge from the womb. Any Thai who doesn't seriously believe in (and fear) a host of ghosts was probably not brought up in Thailand.

Try going to the bible belt in the US and poke fun at their beliefs.

True, there are fanatics in every nook and cranny. I wrote a book which debunked hocus pocus beliefs, and on two separate occassions, elder farang (arch defenders of metaphysics) have gotten downright indignant with me about the text. So yes, many people have a lot of emotion wrapped around defending their belief systems. I still maintain that Thais don't see their beliefs as a belief system, but rather as 'just the way it is.' Perhaps that's seems like a an insignificant difference. Ok, here's an example: If you asked a hard right Christian about the veracity of 'immaculate conception' he/she might talk about it within the context of an intellectual exercise.

In comparison, if you were to ask a Thai whether ghosts exist, the person might draw a blank, because to the Thai, it's a given that ghosts exist. It's like asking a person whether trees are plants.

Very good reply.

I recently dealt with a death in the household

and his personal belongings not being picked up and take elsewhere.

I was shocked at the level of latent animist beliefs in my household.

Since he died violently, (motorcycle) it was thought his spirit is still

coming around looking for his stuff. it was 'heard walking' at night,

and all the ladies slept in one bed while I was on the road.

There were no rational arguments to get around this.... till the embassy got his stuff.

I have also been to the BUCKLE of the American Bible Belt,

including reading scripture in a bible on a lazy susan in the

center of the dinner tabel EVERY meal. Father reads a verse and

turns the bible to his right and starts eating, and every one reads a verse

and turns the bible to the right and then eats till its return, till the meal is done.

And they reconsecrated the living room alter with holy water when

TV Guide accidentally touched it from and adjoining shelf... defile ya see.

Yep hard core philosophical nutters every where, but some can discuss things,

and some you just avoid.

Rituals reassure many people in a positive light,

but when they are used as curse against others then THIS is nutter land.

[Bagwan]

When building the up country mansion the foreman roofer told me that they would not start tiling on the morrow since it was not an auspicious day. I paid him what was due and said that if he and his lads were not on the job at 0700 not to bother turning up at all. Money in the pocket 10 superstition 0.

My tilac pariyah wanted a spirit house, the in-laws thought it a good idea. My take was 'OK then, you pay - and do remember to tell the hobgoblins that I will be charging a hefty ground rent'. Proposal binned.

When the palatial hovel was finished the issue of monks coming (in the middle of my night!!!) to chant for an hour or so in return for largesse was raised. Predictably by this stage, my response was 'over my dead body'. We did however throw a big party (the Devil's work?) and one or two of the neighbours were still present, albeit semiconscious and laying on the ground outside, when I became mobile about 1000.

Seven years later no misfortune has come our way and all accept now that there is no such thing as bad luck. There is misfortune certainly, but this can be put down to the result of ignorance or stupidity. My take is that they now accept that good fortune and opportunities for profit and/or advancement come from some prior thought and a deal of hard work.

I support the view that many Thais are fatalistic and that many things 'just are'. Of course my wife has complete religious freedom but when I ask her why she is a Buddhist, an imaginary brickwall is instantly erected. Her response is either 'shut up, we cannot talk about this' or 'you do not understand'. My protestation that I am trying to understand is unheard. She will not accept that if she had been born in Italy then in all probability she would follow the Roman Catholic faith, if born in Malta she would be a rabid RC, in the UK she would only attend church to be christened, married and to attend ones own funeral. In the US where there seems to be more religions than ancestral countries of origin, she would have a veritable smörgåsbord of religions to choose from. All too often and on practically any subject I ask 'Why?' the answer is 'Why not?'. It would seem that balancing perceived positives and negatives against each other to arrive at a logical or suitable solution are not part of her make up.

One of the things that makes life in Thailand so interesting is that there are so many different ideas, opinions, customs and practices. I do harbour the notion that one hub that Thailand will never attain to is that of logical thought but maybe then that would generate a greater measure of uniformity and so remove some of the charm of the country.

I do however reserve the right to run things MY way and have MY customs observed in that small part of Thailand that I have effective sovereignty over - it that's all right with you dear.

[ding]

I believe they have a strange ritual in America, where children chant this in front of a red and blue cloth before each day at school. Very odd.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

According to the United States Flag Code, the Pledge "should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

The God part was not added until fairly recently. There is no law saying you must follow that ritual although not doing so could cause social problems. There was a time in my youth when I did not do the pledge as a protest against the government, guess what, they didn't send me to Siberia, or even Minnesota. A patriotic ritual anyway, are you suggesting it is comparable to negative curses?

"God" was added in the mid 50's I think. Too bad the 9th circuit Court just ruled that "God" is allowed to be left in the required pledge of allegiance. It's said that they didn't want the activist judges in the Supreme Court to rule. giving final judgment on the word's inclusion. Thailand has a load of spiritual practices, not so much different. But this curse stuff is uncharacteristically full of ill-will.

[klikster]

The God part was not added until fairly recently.

Well, if 60 years ago is "fairly recent".

The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

[Sabre]

Coffin-burning and cursing ceremonies were held at major rally sites, with DAAD leaders presiding over the rituals and reading out cursing statements against the government and the military.

Why am I not surprised? Actually, this hocus pocus silliness makes Thais look like dingbats in the view of the rest of the world.

Every so often we hear about some African tribe which smear some sort of pig fat on their chests and claim it repels bullets. Same sort of bunk as burning coffins or burning feces or whatever the Reds are doing.

It's rubbish of course, but to the extent that people actually believe it, it isn't rubbish.

[ivowatson]

When building the up country mansion the foreman roofer told me that they would not start tiling on the morrow since it was not an auspicious day. I paid him what was due and said that if he and his lads were not on the job at 0700 not to bother turning up at all. Money in the pocket 10 superstition 0.

My tilac pariyah wanted a spirit house, the in-laws thought it a good idea. My take was 'OK then, you pay - and do remember to tell the hobgoblins that I will be charging a hefty ground rent'. Proposal binned.

When the palatial hovel was finished the issue of monks coming (in the middle of my night!!!) to chant for an hour or so in return for largesse was raised. Predictably by this stage, my response was 'over my dead body'. We did however throw a big party (the Devil's work?) and one or two of the neighbours were still present, albeit semiconscious and laying on the ground outside, when I became mobile about 1000.

Seven years later no misfortune has come our way and all accept now that there is no such thing as bad luck. There is misfortune certainly, but this can be put down to the result of ignorance or stupidity. My take is that they now accept that good fortune and opportunities for profit and/or advancement come from some prior thought and a deal of hard work.

I do however reserve the right to run things MY way and have MY customs observed in that small part of Thailand that I have effective sovereignty over - it that's all right with you dear.

Thank you for the lesson. I wish I could be like you.

BTW your avatar doesn't mean Pahk Wahn, does it?

[Jingthing]

The God part was not added until fairly recently.

Well, if 60 years ago is "fairly recent".

The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

Yes, of course, in historical context, that is quite recent. In case you thought you caught me in an error, no, you didn't. I knew perfectly well it was some decades ago. The inclusion of Under God remains quite controversial. People in the US, to repeat, have no legal obligation to ever say the pledge, and no obligation to ever say Under God. An exception may be new immigrant ceremonies. They are required to learn much more about the US than most natives know.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[klikster]

In case you thought you caught me in an error, no, you didn't.

LMAO!!!!