Is It Normal?

[crusty]

Biggest mistake was ordering the glass of Mont Clair.

Stuff has added fruit juice in it, horrible product. The people who sell this wine are strictly after the price point.

I agree, there re so many good value wines out here to be a house wine. Mont Clare is sold in 7/11 for f--- sake ! Try Bushman's Gully from Oz just Baht 360 a bottle, so plenty of room to mark up at B120 a glass and it looks good being poured from a 75 ml. bottle and not a keg !

[F1fanatic]

Haven't tried Bushmans Gully, but at 360 bht for a 70cl bottle its not even close to the same value as Mont Clair at 950 bht for a 5 litre box!

One man's meat is another's poison..... Especially when it comes to wine.

Mont Clair is sold everywhere nowadays, presumably cos its proven v popular at the price (talking about supermarkets - not restaurants).

Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether it looks more impressive coming out of a bottle rather than a box - I'm only interested in a drinkable wine at an affordable price.

[katabeachbum]

Haven't tried Bushmans Gully, but at 360 bht for a 70cl bottle its not even close to the same value as Mont Clair at 950 bht for a 5 litre box!

One man's meat is another's poison..... Especially when it comes to wine.

Mont Clair is sold everywhere nowadays, presumably cos its proven v popular at the price (talking about supermarkets - not restaurants).

Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether it looks more impressive coming out of a bottle rather than a box - I'm only interested in a drinkable wine at an affordable price.

first couple of years here I didnt drink red wine at all. to expensive, stored hot at 35C, and I was to hot too

just an occasional bottle with different experiences on quality. Mont Clair 5 litres box canged this, and past few years Iv kept a Mont Clair in my fridge all the time, and find it good. Not brilliant, not excellent, but not bad. WineInBox makes me drink it almost every day I dine at home though

[sadman]

If it puts it into perspective, I was talking this over with a pal of mine who is a wine importer in the UK. A reasonable bottle of French red, imported into the UK from France, including shipping and his commission, will come in at about 3 euros. It will hit the shops at 10 and the restaurants at 25. A rule of thumb is that restaurant prices (in the UK) will be roughly three times the shop price (so a 200% mark up).

And there is negligible shipping and little duty, although the 17.5% makes a dent.

[NamKangMan]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself too well. The price of a glass of wine aside, for example, if the landlord of a bar puts his lease up to a crazy price and/or, the key money doubles, and/or, the tea money to police doubles etc etc. The bar owner will need to pass this onto the customer. The price of a beer is now 120 baht, or more, (western country prices) not because the bar owner is greedy, but because of what the Thai's think the farang bar owners wallet, and hence, his customers, can extend to.

Now use the same example for the hotel/guest house you stay in, the massages you get, the sun bed rental on the beach, the food in restaurants, any activities you do, shopping for clothes etc etc and before you know it, you can no longer afford a holiday here, and certain expats, who have lived there for years, can no longer afford to live there anymore because their pension has only increased by the CPI, not the "GTI" (Greedy Thai Index). :D So, the tourist go somewhere cheaper, and the expats are forced to move, whether it be to a cheaper part of the island, somewhere else in Thailand, or, a neighbouring country.

The glass of wine the OP mentioned was just an example I used to make a point. Phuket is outpricing itself compared to other holiday destinations at a rate that has no ecomonic justification.

As mentioned in an earlier post. It seems they are going to stretch it till it breaks, and then "back it off a bit" because they have found what the market is willing to pay, BUT, how many tourists, and expats, will they lose, whilst they "test" the market.

Edited March 31, 2010 by NamKangMan

[LivinLOS]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself too well. The price of a glass of wine aside, for example, if the landlord of a bar puts his lease up to a crazy price and/or, the key money doubles, and/or, the tea money to police doubles etc etc. The bar owner will need to pass this onto the customer. The price of a beer is now 120 baht, or more, (western country prices) not because the bar owner is greedy, but because of what the Thai's think the farang bar owners wallet, and hence, his customers, can extend to.

Now use the same example for the hotel/guest house you stay in, the massages you get, the sun bed rental on the beach, the food in restaurants, any activities you do, shopping for clothes etc etc and before you know it, you can no longer afford a holiday here, and certain expats, who have lived there for years, can no longer afford to live there anymore because their pension has only increased by the CPI, not the "GTI" (Greedy Thai Index). :D So, the tourist go somewhere cheaper, and the expats are forced to move, whether it be to a cheaper part of the island, somewhere else in Thailand, or, a neighbouring country.

The glass of wine the OP mentioned was just an example I used to make a point. Phuket is outpricing itself compared to other holiday destinations at a rate that has no ecomonic justification.

As mentioned in an earlier post. It seems they are going to stretch it till it breaks, and then "back it off a bit" because they have found what the market is willing to pay, BUT, how many tourists, and expats, will they lose, whilst they "test" the market.

Greater numbers than ever arrived in March (so I read).. Why should they care if the cheap ones have to leave ?? In fact for them, with a fixed number of seats, great.. Get rid of the ones that cant pay the inflated prices as long as theres increasing numbers of arrivals. At this point in time Phuket seems to have hit a kind of critical mass of global perception and greater numbers keep coming. Love it or hate it the island will develop until its all concreted over and the prices the market will bear.

[NamKangMan]

Greater numbers than ever arrived in March (so I read).. Why should they care if the cheap ones have to leave ?? In fact for them, with a fixed number of seats, great.. Get rid of the ones that cant pay the inflated prices as long as theres increasing numbers of arrivals. At this point in time Phuket seems to have hit a kind of critical mass of global perception and greater numbers keep coming. Love it or hate it the island will develop until its all concreted over and the prices the market will bear.

In your own words, "SO I READ." TIT - believe NOTHING here. Like I said in an earlier post - you can expect "balcony parties" with alcohol bought from 7/11, or, as the OP mentioned, just buy a box of the red and drink at home. Yeh yeh yeh - Cheap Charlie, BUT, so what. As Phuket outprices the majority of return tourists and expats, people will not be "splurging" like they have in the past. They simply will not be able to afford it. I expect to see several bars "turning over" or going bust in the near future.

Another issue of concern, that certainly exists in western countries now, the price of a "pill" (drugs) is/will be cheaper than drinking in Thailand. So, keep an eye out for the young farang having a great night out at a disco, drinking bottled water, to keep their core body temperature down, because the drugs they scored were only a few hundred baht, compared to one hundred baht for just one beer.

As "punters" in the girly bars decrease, expect to see an increase in freelancers. It's not "doom and gloom" - it's just economies of scale. As an expat, I refuse to pay the ridiculous tuk-tuk prices, based on principle, like most readers on TV, rather than based on the capacity to pay. What if tuk-tuk style pricing hit most commodities on the island? I would also refuse to pay, on principle, and basically be forced to leave.

We have a laugh at the Russians walking along Bangla drinking beer from 7/11 - expect to see more of it, from more nationalities.

[LivinLOS]

The whole rant just reads like venom because of being priced out of the market. Phuket is now firmly on the map as asias prime beach destination, in the next month we have Paul oakenfold DJ'ing, Freestylers, major top names performing in the clubs here.. We have venues that have sprung up to cater to the tourist market that quite frankly is operating on western disposable holiday income.

So sure, maybe the guys who used to come here for 4 or 5 months of winter wont be able to, or the retirees that thought they were going to live the good life on under 2000 USD a month will find it a pinch, but thats the way the island is going. For a long time I thought the same, that they would price themselves out of the market, that too many businesses would swamp the available customer base (you can argue this happens actually, even with high costs many are operating on a thin margin due to staff costs, rent costs, key money costs, etc) but the fact is that this small Island is on the global radar. And Phuket is the default beach destination of asia. Why should it be cheap ?? They even have the luxury of not caring too much about repeat customers thanks to this position they have gained.

The chances of a double dip recession in the west have a far greater impact on the island than the rising prices. Paper money is being devalued (printeD) by governments the world over so plan for HIGH inflation over the next decade. If your not budgeting for 10% per annum inflation in your cost of living your in trouble.

[TaoNow]

NamKangMan (aka IceMan?):

I don't get your rant either.

If you are an ex-pat living in Phuket, why are trying to live like a tourist?

If you are worried about fewer tourists coming here or spending less, why do you care?

Do you own some restaurant or bar here?

Let the gougers price themselves out of the market and be gone.

[NamKangMan]

The whole rant just reads like venom because of being priced out of the market. Phuket is now firmly on the map as asias prime beach destination, in the next month we have Paul oakenfold DJ'ing, Freestylers, major top names performing in the clubs here.. We have venues that have sprung up to cater to the tourist market that quite frankly is operating on western disposable holiday income.

So sure, maybe the guys who used to come here for 4 or 5 months of winter wont be able to, or the retirees that thought they were going to live the good life on under 2000 USD a month will find it a pinch, but thats the way the island is going. For a long time I thought the same, that they would price themselves out of the market, that too many businesses would swamp the available customer base (you can argue this happens actually, even with high costs many are operating on a thin margin due to staff costs, rent costs, key money costs, etc) but the fact is that this small Island is on the global radar. And Phuket is the default beach destination of asia. Why should it be cheap ?? They even have the luxury of not caring too much about repeat customers thanks to this position they have gained.

The chances of a double dip recession in the west have a far greater impact on the island than the rising prices. Paper money is being devalued (printeD) by governments the world over so plan for HIGH inflation over the next decade. If your not budgeting for 10% per annum inflation in your cost of living your in trouble.

Could it be that you are agreeing with me???? I'm one of the guys who used to live here for the winter and now live here permanently. Am I not part of "a market?" I have reduced my lifestyle, considerably, in order to reside here. (as you said - "the pinch") I used to spend up big, regularly, and I don't mean ringing the bell in bars and making an arse of myself. Am I now on less disposable income, no. Is it because prices have gone up on Phuket at a fast rate, yes. Have I considered moving to a cheaper location, in order to maintain my previous lifestyle - you bet I have. Have I considered neighbouring countries - you bet I have. Am I the only expat considering this option - I doubt it.

People continue to holiday here and spend up. However, if high prices bring in only the more wealthy, will they be happy sitting on plastic chairs on the footpath for dinner? Will they visit, "the Soi's?" I think they will spend up in their luxurious hotels and visit Bangla just for a look. So, what will become of the plastic chair resturants and small bars at the back of a Soi???? Just look at Nanai. It has boomed - why, because it is cheaper. Most residing there used to live in more central, and luxurious hotels.

I agree with you that it is a premium holiday destination. I am not ranting. All I have said, and continue to say, in relation to the OP's post, is that prices on Phuket rise at a rate that far outceeds global CPI average, and for no real economic justification, other than, TIP (This Is Phuket).

The island used to cater for all demographics of wealth - tourists through to expats. If prices continue to rise at the rate they have been, we will see a change in the customer base on the island in which many resturants, guesthouses and bars, do not cater for this more affluent customer base.

[NamKangMan]

NamKangMan (aka IceMan?):

I don't get your rant either.

If you are an ex-pat living in Phuket, why are trying to live like a tourist?

If you are worried about fewer tourists coming here or spending less, why do you care?

Do you own some restaurant or bar here?

Let the gougers price themselves out of the market and be gone.

As mentioned above - not ranting - just expanding on the OP's comment.

I am an expat living on Phuket. I used to be able to "live" here, like a tourist. I can't afford a lifestyle like that now, due to a rapid increase in prices on the island.

I don't care if more, or less tourists come here - that's something only the Thai's can control. I now have a lifestyle that I can afford on the island - although, it has lowered, considerable. So, I'm not going anywhere.

I don't own a restaurant or bar here.

The "gougers" as you put it, may not be the farang bar owners but the greedy Thai landlords, police, electricity supply etc etc - all of whom have a preconceived idea that farang money is endless. We all know it's not. So, IF we start to see tuk-tuk style pricing creep into the entertainment and hospitality industry, this will certainly have a big impact on the expats on TV. That is the point I am trying to make. Prices have not been increasing with inflation, they have increased as a grab for cash.

[LivinginKata]

As mentioned above - not ranting - just expanding on the OP's comment.

But you keep on banging away on the same drum ...

Yes, much of what you say might be true, but why keep on posting all these critical themes. Makes me wonder what agenda you have ?

[Old Croc]

Perhaps a little off subject, but Thomas Angove, the inventor of the wine cask, has just died aged 92.

[stevenl]

Iceman, you sound like a bitter old man.

[LivinLOS]

Could it be that you are agreeing with me???? I'm one of the guys who used to live here for the winter and now live here permanently. Am I not part of "a market?" I have reduced my lifestyle, considerably, in order to reside here. (as you said - "the pinch") I used to spend up big, regularly, and I don't mean ringing the bell in bars and making an arse of myself. Am I now on less disposable income, no. Is it because prices have gone up on Phuket at a fast rate, yes. Have I considered moving to a cheaper location, in order to maintain my previous lifestyle - you bet I have. Have I considered neighbouring countries - you bet I have. Am I the only expat considering this option - I doubt it.

If thinking that Phuket is not cheap, then yes I agree..

Tho why should it be cheap ?? The idea that cheap Thai restaurants should exist, is nice, but if they can choose between cheap or expensive, for (very often) the same thing.. Why will they choose the cheap. From their perspective your just wasting a seat a high roller could be sat in (thats not possibly an accurate perspective but thats how they see it).

I think Phuket has jumped the shark, the snowball has passed critical mass, and it wont stop until every inch is concreted, until its another island city, and it would seem those in charge have no problem with that. Thats their choice so then so be it, no way us moaning about it will change it. Its a case of embrace the change, enjoy the facilities it brings, or leave.

Even the argument that Phuket is or is close to surpassing costs of the west, well until less people come, something thats clearly not happening, why should they care. If the island can survive by seperating tourists from thier cash, at a rate of 10's of 1000 per day, why worry about a few expats spending 10's per month ??

[NamKangMan]

As mentioned above - not ranting - just expanding on the OP's comment.

But you keep on banging away on the same drum ...

Yes, much of what you say might be true, but why keep on posting all these critical themes. Makes me wonder what agenda you have ?

Well, this is a chat forum. A posting does INVITE a reply, does it not???? In any case, we seem to agree on certain points.

I would rather bang something else than a drum, in Phuket.

[NamKangMan]

Iceman, you sound like a bitter old man.

Well, all the bar girls tell me I am sweet, and we all know they are a good judge of character.

Thanks for your input into the discussion, Steve.

[LivinginKata]

I think Phuket has jumped the shark, the snowball has passed critical mass, and it wont stop until every inch is concreted, until its another island city, and it would seem those in charge have no problem with that. Thats their choice so then so be it, no way us moaning about it will change it. Its a case of embrace the change, enjoy the facilities it brings, or leave.

I think you sum it up very nicely.. .. especially 'enjoy the facilities it brings, or leave'

[NamKangMan]

If thinking that Phuket is not cheap, then yes I agree..

Tho why should it be cheap ?? The idea that cheap Thai restaurants should exist, is nice, but if they can choose between cheap or expensive, for (very often) the same thing.. Why will they choose the cheap. From their perspective your just wasting a seat a high roller could be sat in (thats not possibly an accurate perspective but thats how they see it).

I think Phuket has jumped the shark, the snowball has passed critical mass, and it wont stop until every inch is concreted, until its another island city, and it would seem those in charge have no problem with that. Thats their choice so then so be it, no way us moaning about it will change it. Its a case of embrace the change, enjoy the facilities it brings, or leave.

Even the argument that Phuket is or is close to surpassing costs of the west, well until less people come, something thats clearly not happening, why should they care. If the island can survive by seperating tourists from thier cash, at a rate of 10's of 1000 per day, why worry about a few expats spending 10's per month ??

"In thinking that Phuket is not cheap, then I agree." So, we agree. I was never shooting your posts down mate. I am simply saying that I remember when the place was very affordable and, in a short period of time, prices have gone up at an extremely fast rate.

Of course, there was always your high rollers in the big hotels, but most visitors were happy to live it up in, and around, Bangla. That has now become an expensive night out.

I agree that they will push Phuket to the limit. Just where that limit is, no one really knows, yet. Anyway, I love the place and I'm here for the long haul, provided they don't change the visa laws.

[LivinginKata]

I agree that they will push Phuket to the limit. Just where that limit is, no one really knows, yet. Anyway, I love the place and I'm here for the long haul, provided they don't change the visa laws.

Hear hear ... Many will agree with that. Phuket has many faults, you just have to decide (from your own perspective/finances/personal life) whether it's still Ok to stay, or time to go.

[stevenl]

Iceman, you sound like a bitter old man.

Well, all the bar girls tell me I am sweet, and we all know they are a good judge of character.

Thanks for your input into the discussion, Steve.

You're welcome.

Siunce this discussion was about the reasonable or not mark up for a glass of wine, I think maybe you could start a discussion about this (again) somewhere else?

[NamKangMan]

When I win the lottery - all on TV will see me in Patong catching tuk-tuks everywhere and drinking red wine. :D