Thaksin's Rural Red Shirts Swarm The Capital

[anotherpeter]

Agree with you on the substance but its hard to change at that level . Having say that as long as the thai PM will be elected by the parliement , instead of directly by all of the thai people , instability will prevail. Its mainly a constitutional issue

Most (if not all) western countries do not directly elect their leader.

Someone mentioned that France does, but I believe that is just one part. I think they have a president elected directly and a prime minister elected in the same way as here.

[alstaxi]

They will get frustrated. They don't have the majority support or the moral authority to pull off what they are demanding. ((remove)). You figure it out ...

unneeded comment removed???? you are joking, if you removed all the uneeded comments in this forum you would be very busy.

[OzMick]

Agree with you on the substance but its hard to change at that level . Having say that as long as the thai PM will be elected by the parliement , instead of directly by all of the thai people , instability will prevail. Its mainly a constitutional issue

Most (if not all) western countries do not directly elect their leader.

Someone mentioned that France does, but I believe that is just one part. I think they have a president elected directly and a prime minister elected in the same way as here.

and there is the gorilla in the corner, USA.

[scorecard]

Violence might not be in the minds of some, but it surely is in the minds of some others...

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

[MichaelShort]

I don't understand why Thaksin is doing as he does?

He have been removed from his post and so on and still he sit and pay people to vote for him and support him!?

Isn't it time to forget about the politics and do something else then? Does he actually belive that he will be coming back?

As he is doing now he is only destroying everything again and again not only for himself but also for the people.

Edited March 15, 2010 by MichaelShort

[kurtgruen]

Violence might not be in the minds of some, but it surely is in the minds of some others...

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

Agreed about 1992 and before, but in the past few years, the military seems to have a lot better track record than the police. Bloodless coup a few years ago, etc. The police on the other hand, caused all kinds of bloodshed, during the PAD demostrations, (PPP Government) and can be quite heavy handed at times. Of course, it seems, that Thaksin still has a lot of the police in his pocket, so it will probably be up to the military, to protect this government.

Just my opinion. Who knows, I could be wrong, but that's how I see it

[scorecard]

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

So your saying that the core stuff of the military is 'murderous', 'violence', and the violence shown by the military in the 1992 is the benchmark.

Well I suggest you do a little more analysis:

1. Yes, the military was violent in the 1992 coup, and please remember who the leaders were: Suchinda, Narong, and Sunthorn (the guy that 'gave' thaksin the telecoms monopoly whilst the country was under martial law - an interesting irony). Yes these guys were quite violent and ruthless and already had a reputation as such. And it's also on record that some of the lower ranking officers refused to obey orders to shoot civilians.

2. Their was no violence whatever in the 2006 coup either at the moment it happened or in the aftermath. Why? Totally different leaders with a different and much more balanced perspective. No desire to 'take over' the country, just make a correction and get back to an elected parliament as sson as possible which they did fairly quickly.

3. Now. Anupong is broad-based, he sees the military in a different perspective than before, and realizes that the military cannot ever again be party to violence with it's own compatriots, and realizes that the military will have to fairly quickly change it's role and get out of politics. I'm sure he's also realizing this won't happen tomorrow and there are still elements of the militatry who have an older perspective and change will be bumpy and slow.

[Cayenne]

BangkokPundit reporting that Newin is certain to of switched sides, yet Abhisit has said he has the support from coalition partners not to dissolve the house...?

Not exactly. Bangkok Pundit is reporting that Thanong of The Nation blogs is saying Newin has switched sides. Apparently that is based on extrapolation that Newin's father, the speaker of the house, has unexpectedly scheduled a session for tomorrow.

Note what BP actually says:

BP: Should we take it that Thanong is projecting paranoid Democrat views? BP thinks so. Nevertheless, even a broken clock is right twice a day so should we also take it from the public statements by the Democrats that they are little uneasy what Newin might be up too? Yes, BP thinks we can, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Newin is switching, of course. However, it is certainly plausible as Sanan could be seen as the compromise PM. Newin and Chat Thai Pattana can argue that Abhisit is too divisive. Then again, Newin could just be trying to extract more from the Democrats. Also, a Bhum Jai Thai spokesman has been reasonably clear on TV that the party supports Abhisit.

I tend to agree that Newin and the other coalition parties are going to try and extract more out of the Democrats for supporting them through this.

Keep in mind that both coalition partners have high aspirations for the 2011 elections and any weakening of the Democrats, without them actually losing control of the house, is a good thing.

TH

Excellent point. It would do no good for the Bhumjai thai to switch camps now as they have far more leverage with the Democrats than they do with PTP. Plus, I can't imagine too many of the PTP MPs will be welcoming BJT MPs with open arms especially given that they will be competing in many areas for the elections in 2012. Finally, if Newin does go back to Thaksin, that won't make too many of his lieutenants (i.e. Chalerm, Chavalit, etc.) too happy either as they were jockeying to be the favored son all along. Will Newin settle for being number 3 or 4 in the pecking order? I don't think so.

[LivinLOS]

Despite how vigorous the pro-Thaksin supporters claim no money is changing hands for the supporters, we in the capital don't have to go far to hear from people that have been offered cash to attend - the maid of my last workplace for one.

Turnout directly equates cash. Thaksin is going for it this time.

I know quite a few thai's that have left pattaya, and they have informed that they collected 2000 baht for attending, and will get 2000 baht a day till it is over.

So someone must be funding this movement. Since somebody wired 1 billion baht from europe a few weeks ago, they do have plenty of coin. The Anti Money Police are investigating this hugh transfer already.

Let's do the math...1 billion baht consumed at 2,000 baht per person per day provides for 500,000 'person-days'. If an optimistic amount of protestors--say, 100,000 of them--were supported by this largesse, the money would sustain 5 days of this nonsensical buffoonery. Somebody really must enjoy throwing his money down the Mother of all Toilets. What a joke and a travesty to the millions of Thai people who scrape out a living to try to keep from starving. Better the Omnipotent but Disgraced One dole out his money to the poor as alms instead of paying for ill-fated protests. Heck, had he paid his taxes for the sale of Shin, he would still be in office. Double shame on this meglomaniac twit. The Thai people deserve far better but are too obsessed with the Man for their own good.

Well said, what a waste of money, especially when there are so many serious issues that need attention in Thailand.

Would have thought that 1bn would have bought off Barnham and Newin easily and swung him enough elected seats to do it the 'legit' way..

Also what seems crazy is they have to have elections within 18 months anyway.. So even if they disbanded now there probably wouldnt be any until maybe 6 months, so all this effort just to advance a year ??

[anotherpeter]

Agree with you on the substance but its hard to change at that level . Having say that as long as the thai PM will be elected by the parliement , instead of directly by all of the thai people , instability will prevail. Its mainly a constitutional issue

Most (if not all) western countries do not directly elect their leader.

Someone mentioned that France does, but I believe that is just one part. I think they have a president elected directly and a prime minister elected in the same way as here.

and there is the gorilla in the corner, USA.

Correct. I have no idea how they elect the president, but don't think he is directly elected by the people. (a bit of research required)

[bacchanal]

I saw the "reds" moving down Sukhumvit yesterday morning, we passed by the whole column.

There were many young children on board the trucks.

Do you think any responsible parent would bring their child along to any event that would put their child in harms way?

I draw the conclusion that they have not come with violence on their minds.

But of course I could be wrong

What do you guys think?

Violence occurred last Black Songkran when parents were encouraged to bring their children to the rally in Bangkok by Thaksin, who had ushered his own children out of the country just prior.

This year, the same ushering of Thaksin's children out of the country occurred and once again there seems to be a lot of children present in Bangkok, but hopefully the violence that normally occurs with Thaksin's children fleeing the country won't occur this time.

[lannarebirth]

Violence might not be in the minds of some, but it surely is in the minds of some others...

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

And what would you define as necessary provocation?

[jayboy]

So your saying that the core stuff of the military is 'murderous', 'violence', and the violence shown by the military in the 1992 is the benchmark.

Well I suggest you do a little more analysis:

1. Yes, the military was violent in the 1992 coup, and please remember who the leaders were: Suchinda, Narong, and Sunthorn (the guy that 'gave' thaksin the telecoms monopoly whilst the country was under martial law - an interesting irony). Yes these guys were quite violent and ruthless and already had a reputation as such. And it's also on record that some of the lower ranking officers refused to obey orders to shoot civilians.

2. Their was no violence whatever in the 2006 coup either at the moment it happened or in the aftermath. Why? Totally different leaders with a different and much more balanced perspective. No desire to 'take over' the country, just make a correction and get back to an elected parliament as sson as possible which they did fairly quickly.

3. Now. Anupong is broad-based, he sees the military in a different perspective than before, and realizes that the military cannot ever again be party to violence with it's own compatriots, and realizes that the military will have to fairly quickly change it's role and get out of politics. I'm sure he's also realizing this won't happen tomorrow and there are still elements of the militatry who have an older perspective and change will be bumpy and slow.

Well let's hope you're right and that your optimism triumphs over experience..A well informed cynic might argue that precisely the same forces that stood behind Suchinda in 1992, an example by the way not a bench mark, are seeking to influence the outcome of the current political drama in Thailand.They will fail.Your version "just make a correction" of the 2006 coup and its aftermath is absurd, but not relevant to this topic so I won't bother commenting. Anupong is a realist and I suspect sees that bloodshed would not serve his cause or that of his backers:his restraint is a strategic decision not one based on morality.

[jayboy]

Violence might not be in the minds of some, but it surely is in the minds of some others...

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

And what would you define as necessary provocation?

Throwing stuff at the security forces, listening to Coldplay on their ipods...that sort of thing.

[lannarebirth]

Violence might not be in the minds of some, but it surely is in the minds of some others...

I think that's a correct assessment.The military has murderous form as we know from the way violence was inflicted on peaceful demonstrations in the past, for example in 1992.The good news is that Abhisit seems to be able to hold army thuggery in check, and I think also Anupong knows violence would be very counter productive to elite interests.Fingers crossed and of course the reds should avoid unnecessary provocation.

And what would you define as necessary provocation?

Throwing stuff at the security forces, listening to Coldplay on their ipods...that sort of thing.

OK, for the record. The Reds want to go inside the 11th regiment to deliver some sort of letter. If denied access would storming the barracks be a necessary or an unnecessary provocation?

Edited March 15, 2010 by lannarebirth

[hammered]

Storming a place full of weapons is way beyond acceptable. Even threatening to do so is worrying.

Best thing now would be for the government leaders to leave that compund and the reds to head back to Rachadamnoen

[bkkjames]

OK, for the record. The Reds want to go inside the 11th regiment to deliver some sort of letter. If denied access would storming the barracks be a necessary or an unnecessary provocation?

I don't why they just don't send an email if it's so important.

[shawndoc]

Sadly, it looks like the Red leaders are getting more desperate if media accounts are accurate. In addition to the threat of storming the infantry barracks we have the following in the news thread:

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders on mobile stage at 11th Infantry Regiment attack government, announcing stance for 2-3 hours before returning to Phan Fah Lilat Bridge

THE NATION: Another red leader, Weng, said 3 million protesters are in town.

THE NATION: Nuttawat said 1 million cc of blood will be taken from 100,000 protesters and splattered at Govt House tonite.

THE NATION: Blood donation will start at 8 am tomorrow and last until late in the afternoon for the first 1 million cc.

Hopefully its just hyperbole, but clearly they're getting desperate.

Edited March 15, 2010 by shawndoc

[hammered]

Sadly, it looks like the Red leaders are getting more desperate if media accounts are accurate. In addition to the threat of storming the infantry barracks we have the following in the news thread:

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders on mobile stage at 11th Infantry Regiment attack government, announcing stance for 2-3 hours before returning to Phan Fah Lilat Bridge

THE NATION: Another red leader, Weng, said 3 million protesters are in town.

THE NATION: Nuttawat said 1 million cc of blood will be taken from 100,000 protesters and splattered at Govt House tonite.

THE NATION: Blood donation will start at 8 am tomorrow and last until late in the afternoon for the first 1 million cc.

Hopefully its just hyperbole, but clearly they're getting desperate.

How can they pour the blood around tonight if they start collecting it tomorrow?

[Insight]

Sadly, it looks like the Red leaders are getting more desperate if media accounts are accurate. In addition to the threat of storming the infantry barracks we have the following in the news thread:

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders on mobile stage at 11th Infantry Regiment attack government, announcing stance for 2-3 hours before returning to Phan Fah Lilat Bridge

THE NATION: Another red leader, Weng, said 3 million protesters are in town.

THE NATION: Nuttawat said 1 million cc of blood will be taken from 100,000 protesters and splattered at Govt House tonite.

THE NATION: Blood donation will start at 8 am tomorrow and last until late in the afternoon for the first 1 million cc.

Hopefully its just hyperbole, but clearly they're getting desperate.

So using red shirt maths, that's 100,000 cc of blood taken from 10,000 protesters.

Can't they donate it to the Red Cross instead?

[Jingthing]

So using red shirt maths, that's 100,000 cc of blood taken from 10,000 protesters.

Can't they donate it to the Red Cross instead?

That would be too productive.

[whiterussian]

good twatter feed: http://twitter.com/tulsathit

"Protesters remaining at Rajadamnoen had a different story on Nuttawut. The phone thing was a "warning" a sniper was planning to shoot him"

24 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Edited March 15, 2010 by whiterussian

[kurtgruen]

good twatter feed: http://twitter.com/tulsathit

"Protesters remaining at Rajadamnoen had a different story on Nuttawut. The phone thing was a "warning" a sniper was planning to shoot him"

24 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Why would anyone waste a bullet on him? This is getting more pathetic by the minute.

[yeeowww]

The difference is that the Yellows had good reason to be hold their ground and stage an unwavering protest. The spineless / useless Government that was the ThankSin regime didn't lift a finger to stop the protest. In other words, they were incapable of taking command of the situation. Old wimpy brother-in-law Somchai fled the country (gee, seems to be a pattern with the Shitawatra family) during the time of crisis. Then what actually stopped the protest which nobody seems to remember was the fact that a judgement was given in the ongoing case of vote buying and the then Government was declared illegal. Plain and simple, by the books and I'm sure had the shoe been on the other foot the frikk'n red t-shirt gang would not have been crying "foul".

Yeewow, So by ransacking those governement buildings and laying siege to the airport the yellow shirts were well within their rights, but the red shirts don't even have the right to come to Bangkok and have a peaceful protest against what they see as an illegal governemt withjout being harrased by the military and the police, if that is pretty much your view of the situation then you would have fit right in with the brown shirts in Germany in the early 1930's

I never said they did the most responsible things. But two wrongs do not make a right which the Red T-shirts do not seem to understand. I also notice you did not dispute any of my points. I like to hear you discredit them point by point mr. know-it-all. Please address them directly if you wish to rebut my post.

"Two wrongs don't make a right" so you are finally admitting that the yellow shirts were wrong in occupying those governement buildings and laying siege to the airport? That would be a good first step there Yeewow, of course the second step would be to admit that the red shirts have the right to come to Bangkok and peacefully protest what they view as an illigitimate governmet Once you can do that then and only then a rational conversation can begin The conversation will have to wait until later however , because I am heading out to the golf club now

Avoiding the points yet again. Just skirting the issues over and over instead of acknowledging my points. Go back to that culturally vapid place Vegas and enjoy your mindless activity of hitting a little ball around with a metal rod. It suites you much better than having any sort of political debate.

[Cayenne]

So using red shirt maths, that's 100,000 cc of blood taken from 10,000 protesters.

Can't they donate it to the Red Cross instead?

That would be too productive.

First productive thing I've heard from the Reds all weekend. Too bad they will just waste it on the streets instead of donating it for a good cause. Typical thinking of them, as usual...

[frodo]

Looks like it has started....peaceful?

A M79 grenade was fired into the compound of the First Battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment Monday afternoon, injuring two soldiers.

The regiment is located in front of the NBT station.

The soldiers were rushed to the Mongkut Klao Hospital.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2-sol...k-30124701.html

[bacchanal]

Sadly, it looks like the Red leaders are getting more desperate if media accounts are accurate. In addition to the threat of storming the infantry barracks we have the following in the news thread:

MCOT: Red Shirt leaders on mobile stage at 11th Infantry Regiment attack government, announcing stance for 2-3 hours before returning to Phan Fah Lilat Bridge

THE NATION: Another red leader, Weng, said 3 million protesters are in town.

THE NATION: Nuttawat said 1 million cc of blood will be taken from 100,000 protesters and splattered at Govt House tonite.

THE NATION: Blood donation will start at 8 am tomorrow and last until late in the afternoon for the first 1 million cc.

Hopefully its just hyperbole, but clearly they're getting desperate.

100,000 blood draws? By whom? Under what conditions?

Are any of them aware of the hazards of ill-equipped needle sticks by untrained people?

HIV and hepatitis for starters.

I, too, HOPE, it's just crazy words, without actual intent, coming out the red leaders' mouths.

[KhaoNiaw]

Presumably they've thought ahead,and if so, they've probably already got most of the blood they'll need to pull this off. Cattle, pigs etc. It'll certainly look impressive, but could backfire if the PR goes against them for throwing away good blood.

[tb86]

usual nonesnse, they would need the med staff to draw 2 units.... the maximum a person can donate safley, any docs feel free to correct me if im wrong from 100k people.. first off where you going to get the needles, secondly where you going to store it, what in gods name are you going to do with a massive biohazard like that, i doubt the songkran buckets in a pickup are going to work to transport that.. These people have officialy confirmed that their leaders are truly uneducated fools they should be embarrased to even suggest such a thing disgusting

[gemini81]

one thing I noticed today around paholyothin was the number of people along the street who were not wearing red, but cheering the pick up trucks who had guys screaming in the back. Do they think its a fun parade...or are these the same folks who change their favorite football team each year according to who wins?