Red Shirts Blood Campaign Is Dangerous : Health Groups

[animatic]

Who are you to state the the people involved in the protest have no idea of the political aspects involved? Do you have degrees in Thai Language, History and/or Social Science and Politics? Because many of the demonstrators do. Or is it just because you read The Nation every day?

hmmm, I think with the last action the reds have lost credibility completely.

I pity those who came here with good intent and to be heard. But you reds haven't cut Thaksin, another issue that has eaten up your credibility. Why not send all the blood to him. He'd love it.

What do you want, Democracy or Thaksin?

I have to agree with this.

Not sure if Thaksin would love the blood,

just the gesture to his ego.

[Meridian007]

How about they all go home, and wait for the elections next year when they can express themselves in a rational manner? Abhisit had no reason to abide, he is in power legally, and will be until the elections next year. This isn't about politics, it's about one man's stolen money.

They've won previous elections which were taken away from them why should they now wait for yet another election? I think that it is quite obvious that the Elite Families and the Military are determined that the people will never be allowed to have their government because that's the end of their years of ruling the country.

Exactly proving my point. If there are snap elections now, all of this will continue. If TRT gets in, there will be accusations of vote-buying, and the PAD will protest until they are ousted. If anyone but TRT get in, the reds will continue protesting, alluding to controlling hands in the background. If the Democrats are allowed to serve their term, perhaps the results of future elections will be allowed to as well. Otherwise, it'll be the same destructive flip-flop of leaders that has crippled this country for years now.

You use the term "elite families". This is the biggest joke that Thaksin has produced. What is he if not the head of an "elite family", and what of his cronies? This is merely a battle of which elite families will continue to suppress and use the poor of this country. If you are truly interested in their plight, support of Thaksin is no better than any of the other options. In fact, Abhisit is the first person recently to make measured benefits for all, (instead of populist tokens), and he would do more if he were allowed to act within the red strongholds of the North and North-East.

As for Abhisit being in power legally that's been discussed on previous threads. He is not in power legally unless you think that the purchase of Newin Chitbob and his forty MPs with Elite and Military money (which made Abhisit PM) is legal. Parties have been disolved for vote buying but when the Elite/Military bought Newin Chitbob and his forty MPs they also bought the millions of votes of their electorate who are the same people now out on the streets of Bangkok trying to get these stolen votes back. As for stolen money the Elite families have ruled and subjugated the rural population for years. So would you say that their money is not stolen? If not where did it come from?

The "purchase"? I think it is more along the lines of those smaller parties realizing that if they wanted a slice of the cake, they had to change sides. That is the role of smaller parties here. They will side with whoever seems to be winning. Before it was TRT, now it's the Democrats. Stolen votes? The people were payed to vote for certain parties, (I won't get into the issue of vote buying, it's been done to death), which they did. They were voting for Bhum Jai, Rhuam Jai, Chart Thai, or Pua Paendin, not the re-branded TRT. By those parties being a part of the current coalition, the people's votes haven't been "stolen", as their parties still exist, they just decided to change their bedfellows.

As for stolen money, what leader hasn't come to power here on the backs of the poor, or through military domination? The stolen money issue here was through an inappropriate use of power by a PM for monetary gain while he was PM. As I said before, Thailand can only take baby steps forward, giant leaps have been proven to not work well for the majority of people (especially the poor and farmers).

Abhisit was schooled in the UK and later studied law at Oxford University so is well aware of the moral and ethical questions raised by his installation as PM. Do you think that he would dare to debate his actions with the Dons at Oxford? I don't think that this grubby man with his thirst for unearned power would dare to do so. You should note that the BBC are describing the Red Shirt demonstration as the largest political demonstration in Thailand for thirty years. That alone is enough in any democracy to consider calls for a General Election but Abhisit has dismissed the idea out of hand. Why? Because he knows that he can't win and is not a legally elected PM.

Of course he could. He is legally representing a legal coalition government within a parliamentary system. There is no legal problem with the current government, and it is accepted internationally as a legitimate and legal government by all other governments. I won't respond to the "grubby man" insult as it's irrelevant and incorrect (especially in comparison to Thaksin), and your incorrect quoting of the BBC has already been discounted.

Okay, can we get this back to the blood issue as the background issues have already been dealt with?

[termad]

You should note that the BBC are describing the Red Shirt demonstration as the largest political demonstration in Thailand for thirty years.

Correction:

The rally, led by red-shirted supporters of Mr Thaksin has been one of the largest in recent years, although the BBC's Rachel Harvey, at the scene, says the numbers appear to be dwindling.

Get it right, please. Largest political demonstration my foot, the PAD had them outnumbered by a longshot.

I repeat that the BBC state that the demonstration is the largest political rally in thirty years see BBC website. The PADs largest rally was thirty thousand.

[SeanMoran]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

The subject was not of sufficient AGE to give his consent,

except in an emergency situation, and this was not such and emergency.

Perhaps this is not an emergency to you, but I would imagine that Abhisit's recalcitrance yesterday has brought about an emergency situation today.

[mrtoad]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

Another moranic statement Sean, you have just proven how oblivious you are to the wrongs of this whole stunt and what you understand about age and mental capacity to consent . There are issues here both in respect of medical malpractice and recklessness endangerment of public health. Strangely, which you seem to have omitted, there are licensed health care professionals involved in this. I have yet to see, one shred of evidence from anyone supporting this publicity stunt that it is safe and ethical. Some of us Sean do have ethics in the way that we practice, hence why I am making the points that you seem to think are not important. Last time I looked, Thailand was marketing itself as a leading medical destination - well these actions aren't enhancing that reputation, that is for sure.

[Wolfie]

I repeat that the BBC state that the demonstration is the largest political rally in thirty years see BBC website. The PADs largest rally was thirty thousand.

I will ask you for a second time, please provide the link to back up this claim...

Put up or shut up

[bkkjames]

You should note that the BBC are describing the Red Shirt demonstration as the largest political demonstration in Thailand for thirty years.

Correction:

The rally, led by red-shirted supporters of Mr Thaksin has been one of the largest in recent years, although the BBC's Rachel Harvey, at the scene, says the numbers appear to be dwindling.

Get it right, please. Largest political demonstration my foot, the PAD had them outnumbered by a longshot.

I repeat that the BBC state that the demonstration is the largest political rally in thirty years see BBC website. The PADs largest rally was thirty thousand.

Who really cares to be honest - nowhere near 1 million.

As for the blood thing instead of taking the high road and say teaming up with the red cross to donate blood to the people of Thailand (an act that would not be embarrassing and no room for criticism), they have taken the low road again it appears.

[mrtoad]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

The subject was not of sufficient AGE to give his consent,

except in an emergency situation, and this was not such and emergency.

Perhaps this is not an emergency to you, but I would imagine that Abhisit's recalcitrance yesterday has brought about an emergency situation today.

You sir have just proven without doubt that you are a first class moron. Well done.

[Insight]

The PAD rallies after the Shin sale were much larger than 30,000 and even above the 100,000+ the red shirts managed this weekend. I remember reading at the time figures in the 200,000 region, but cannot recall the sources.

[SeanMoran]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

Some of us Sean do have ethics in the way that we practice, hence why I am making the points that you seem to think are not important.

Yes, just like the Church in the Middle Ages, you can do no wrong!

Personally, I'll trust in the monks for humane conduct.

[mrtoad]

I repeat that the BBC state that the demonstration is the largest political rally in thirty years see BBC website. The PADs largest rally was thirty thousand.

This is a bit like Rainman with some of his spurious allegations - never puts out any evidence to back it up. Please show the link that corroborates this statement.

[mrtoad]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

Some of us Sean do have ethics in the way that we practice, hence why I am making the points that you seem to think are not important.

Yes, just like the Church in the Middle Ages, you can do no wrong!

Personally, I'll trust in the monks for humane conduct.

Answer the question, or shut up - Is an 11 year old able to give informed consent?. You pathetic attempt at trying to align me with the church and the middle ages is puerile.

[Meridian007]

Sure, unless you contract hepetitis, HIV, or any number of other diseases that WILL be in that blood. So now you read the last line of the post, what about commenting on the other aspects. The illegal assault of an 11 year old perhaps.

I have not had any communications with that young fellow, and await his personal testimony.

Sean if you have ever heard of the laws of consent in respect to treatment? I am not going to use the Thai laws, as I am not so familiar with them - so apologies for using DoH guidleines from the UK. What this should show you though, is that in countries with accountability in the health care profession a lot of thought is put into protecting children. This is not done just on a whim, it has evolved through years of evidence based practice. I don't give a stuff about "oh this is Thailand", this is a professional issue - and as a registered health care professional myself I think this does the profession a disservice. I look forward to hearing the comments about this, when it get discussed in some of the professional journals in the coming months - as I am sure that it will. ...

Exactly!

Sean, would you like them to abolish the statutory rape laws as well? Consent is reserved for adults, minors are not allowed to do certain things because of their lack of life experience and judgment. This is no different than the man being charged for sexually assaulting those young boys. Even if they personally consented, their consent is deemed irrelevant. So by extension, are you saying that pedophiles shouldn't be prosecuted?

This 11 year old cannot make these kinds of decisions, therefore his "testimony" is irrelevant.

[Tigs]

Now what was the name of those strange Norwegian creatures that lived under bridges???? Well whatever it was we are always reminded not to feed them!. I guess Sean should be 'nil by mouth', even better it would be a lot less stressful on here and far more productive if he were added to everybody's ignore list.

[DP25]

The Nation: 70,000 reds registered to donate the blood and now they got 600,000 CC.

With 57 nurses working from 9am to 2pm, that's 245 per hour. Impressive!

[hunglikea]

Now what was the name of those strange Norwegian creatures that lived under bridges???? Well whatever it was we are always reminded not to feed them!. I guess Sean should be 'nil by mouth', even better it would be a lot less stressful on here and far more productive if he were added to everybody's ignore list.

Seconded! Stop feeding the boring troll.

[bkkjames]

I will give Sean some credit as where are the rest of the 'red shirt' tv crew today in this topic? Me thinks even they find this act disgusting.

[mrtoad]

Now what was the name of those strange Norwegian creatures that lived under bridges???? Well whatever it was we are always reminded not to feed them!. I guess Sean should be 'nil by mouth', even better it would be a lot less stressful on here and far more productive if he were added to everybody's ignore list.

I think NFR would be more suitable.

[SeanMoran]

Sure, unless you contract hepetitis, HIV, or any number of other diseases that WILL be in that blood. So now you read the last line of the post, what about commenting on the other aspects. The illegal assault of an 11 year old perhaps.

I have not had any communications with that young fellow, and await his personal testimony.

Sean if you have ever heard of the laws of consent in respect to treatment? I am not going to use the Thai laws, as I am not so familiar with them - so apologies for using DoH guidleines from the UK. What this should show you though, is that in countries with accountability in the health care profession a lot of thought is put into protecting children. This is not done just on a whim, it has evolved through years of evidence based practice. I don't give a stuff about "oh this is Thailand", this is a professional issue - and as a registered health care professional myself I think this does the profession a disservice. I look forward to hearing the comments about this, when it get discussed in some of the professional journals in the coming months - as I am sure that it will. ...

Exactly!

Sean, would you like them to abolish the statutory rape laws as well? Consent is reserved for adults, minors are not allowed to do certain things because of their lack of life experience and judgment. This is no different than the man being charged for sexually assaulting those young boys. Even if they personally consented, their consent is deemed irrelevant. So by extension, are you saying that pedophiles shouldn't be prosecuted?

This 11 year old cannot make these kinds of decisions, therefore his "testimony" is irrelevant.

Essentially, to both of you, it would seem that you have no evidence that an 11 year old has contracted AIDS or HIV or been raped or anything at all, apart from exercising his free will to take part in the protests, and until you can support your allegations of assault or rape, your red-herring comments reflect those of the Church of Health in seeking to sabotage the efforts of the people who have travelled far to join in this ill-fated rally with your attention to such minor details.

I remember when I was 11 and I would have been proud to give a little bit of blood for the cause of my future in a democratic Thailand, where I would retain the right to vote in democratic elections once I attained legal age, whether I had a degree or not.

Think of that, and you might see that the "Health Groups" are entirely comprised of the "haves" and therefore they can only address these side-issues with their lack of understanding of us "have-nots".

[scorecard]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

The subject was not of sufficient AGE to give his consent,

except in an emergency situation, and this was not such and emergency.

Perhaps this is not an emergency to you, but I would imagine that Abhisit's recalcitrance yesterday has brought about an emergency situation today.

You sir have just proven without doubt that you are a first class moron. Well done.

Your wasting your time to ask seanmoran to see / to engage in some rational discussion. He won't listen, and I'm wondering if he's just a wind-up merchant.

[elcent]

does anybody know of how they store that Dracula thingy?

[Splatter]

Please provide the link for where the BBC Said this was the largest political protest in 30 years... thanks!

All i have been able to find on the subject is this

The rally, led by red-shirted supporters of Mr Thaksin has been one of the largest in recent years, although the BBC's Rachel Harvey, at the scene, says the numbers appear to be dwindling.

I remember it being stated by a presenter yesterday, available on a video on the BBC site. The big bloke with an open white shirt, standing in front of the stage on Rajadamnern.

It was also shown on BBC World.

Sorry, I didn't video it for you.

There's an oblique reference to something similar, in text, here....

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/15/What...tical_demonstr/

.

[bkkjames]

Essentially, to both of you, it would seem that you have no evidence that an 11 year old has contracted AIDS or HIV or been raped or anything at all, apart from exercising his free will to take part in the protests, and until you can support your allegations of assault or rape, your red-herring comments reflect those of the Church of Health in seeking to sabotage the efforts of the people who have travelled far to join in this ill-fated rally with your attention to such minor details.

I remember when I was 11 and I would have been proud to give a little bit of blood for the cause of my future in a democratic Thailand, where I would retain the right to vote in democratic elections once I attained legal age, whether I had a degree or not.

Think of that, and you might see that the "Health Groups" are entirely comprised of the "haves" and therefore they can only address these side-issues with their lack of understanding of us "have-nots".

Previous compliments aside Sean - if you were wise enough at 11 to make such a decision - you sir should be PM or President of your home country and not on TV lecturing the rest of us dummies. Carry on.

[mrtoad]

Your wasting your time to ask seanmoran to see / to engage in some rational discussion. He won't listen, and I'm wondering if he's just a wind-up merchant.

Having seen his last post, I agree. He is a merchant, but not a wind up - more like a Merchant Banker.

[hunglikea]

Your wasting your time to ask seanmoran to see / to engage in some rational discussion. He won't listen, and I'm wondering if he's just a wind-up merchant.

exactly

[george]

Don't forget to check our Live update thread for the latest:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...da-t347906.html

[onethailand]

Please provide the link for where the BBC Said this was the largest political protest in 30 years... thanks!

All i have been able to find on the subject is this

The rally, led by red-shirted supporters of Mr Thaksin has been one of the largest in recent years, although the BBC's Rachel Harvey, at the scene, says the numbers appear to be dwindling.

I remember it being stated by a presenter yesterday, available on a video on the BBC site. The big bloke with an open white shirt, standing in front of the stage on Rajadamnern.

It was also shown on BBC World.

Sorry, I didn't video it for you.

There's an oblique reference to something similar, in text, here....

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/15/What...tical_demonstr/

.

If the presenter stated it, the website would reflect that fact unless there are two different reports. There is no reason for something stated on television to not have been quoted on the website, especially given the BBC Bangkok Bureau's penchant for exaggeration.

[animatic]

I assume unless there is evidence to the contrary that the subject willingly consented to the treatment. That is at least more civilised practice than the ways of the Australian public health system, but how off-topic do we want to get here?

Is this thread meant to focus on the malpractice of the World's health industries, or on the industrious and creative actions of the peaceful demonstrations at the rally in Bangkok?

The subject was not of sufficient AGE to give his consent,

except in an emergency situation, and this was not such and emergency.

Perhaps this is not an emergency to you, but I would imagine that Abhisit's recalcitrance yesterday has brought about an emergency situation today.

You sir have just proven without doubt that you are a first class moron. Well done.

It is truely an astounding lack of logic.... UNdone...

even if there is ALSO a totally ignored moral component also.

If the child is bitten by a snake and you must

evacuate the poison by blood letting THAT is an emergency,

not having the prime minister not resign.

In the most USA states or France this child would be removed from his parents for abuse.

[onethailand]

Please provide the link for where the BBC Said this was the largest political protest in 30 years... thanks!

All i have been able to find on the subject is this

The rally, led by red-shirted supporters of Mr Thaksin has been one of the largest in recent years, although the BBC's Rachel Harvey, at the scene, says the numbers appear to be dwindling.

I remember it being stated by a presenter yesterday, available on a video on the BBC site. The big bloke with an open white shirt, standing in front of the stage on Rajadamnern.

It was also shown on BBC World.

Sorry, I didn't video it for you.

There's an oblique reference to something similar, in text, here....

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/15/What...tical_demonstr/

.

If the presenter stated it, the website would reflect that fact unless there are two different reports. There is no reason for something stated on television to not have been quoted on the website, especially given the BBC Bangkok Bureau's penchant for exaggeration.

[bkkjames]

Just watching George and Webfact with their minute by minute news updates and its like a lottery ... almost at 600,000 cc's now.

My only question would be is who is doing the counting? Jutaporn or Veera. Whole blood or watered down? Perhaps that other poster with the mystery link to the protest numbers can help us out with the actual volume collected.

Is it 6 sen cc or 60 lan cc?