Deposed Thai Premier Thaksin Now In Montenegro

[lannarebirth]

I am not Serb,I am Montenegrin.I didnt forget Slobo and Karadzic,but they were not democraticly elected.Milosevic banned media that wrote against him,violently suppressed any kind of opposition,even killing some of his rivals.But it is not the point,Serbia under Milosevic was not democracy and it was bombed by NATO at the end.On the other hand Thailand claims to be democracy or not?

If I am not wrong democracy=demos(people)+cratein(to rule)-rule of the people.If more than 60% of voters supported Taksin in elections,than he should be prime minister.Am I right or wrong?

And I forgot-you can not seriously compare Taksin and his crimes with Milosevic and especially Karadzic?

I absolutely would not compare the scale of Thaksin's crimes to Milosevic or Karadzic. I would point out that he abused his power in similar ways however. Thailand is a fledgling democracy. It probably has never held a truly democratic election that was not corrupted by vote buying. The abuses you claim Milosevic practised are not at all unfamiliar to those of us who watched Thaksin govern.

Edited March 18, 2010 by lannarebirth

[jdinasia]

I am not Serb,I am Montenegrin.I didnt forget Slobo and Karadzic,but they were not democraticly elected.Milosevic banned media that wrote against him,violently suppressed any kind of opposition,even killing some of his rivals.But it is not the point,Serbia under Milosevic was not democracy and it was bombed by NATO at the end.On the other hand Thailand claims to be democracy or not?

If I am not wrong democracy=demos(people)+cratein(to rule)-rule of the people.If more than 60% of voters supported Taksin in elections,than he should be prime minister.Am I right or wrong?

And I forgot-you can not seriously compare Taksin and his crimes with Milosevic and especially Karadzic?

Perhaps you should actually read up on Thailand, maybe visit here. Then explain how your facts match reality. Since they don't and you are obviously spouting a preset idea you had before your first post despite claiming to have just googled this board ...... well ...... again ... Welcome Back.

[Montenegrin]

But,isnt it the fact that he did some good things for poorest?You will agree that it is not coincidence that he won so many votes.You simply cannot buy that many votes.I see that Taksin had 374 out of 500 seats in Parliament.It is huge result.

[jdinasia]

But,isnt it the fact that he did some good things for poorest?You will agree that it is not coincidence that he won so many votes.You simply cannot buy that many votes.I see that Taksin had 374 out of 500 seats in Parliament.It is huge result.

Again --- perhaps you should do some of the basic research required and learn about things here and the history here. Particularly Thaksin's history here. Visiting might be a good start.

[Montenegrin]

I am not Serb,I am Montenegrin.I didnt forget Slobo and Karadzic,but they were not democraticly elected.Milosevic banned media that wrote against him,violently suppressed any kind of opposition,even killing some of his rivals.But it is not the point,Serbia under Milosevic was not democracy and it was bombed by NATO at the end.On the other hand Thailand claims to be democracy or not?

If I am not wrong democracy=demos(people)+cratein(to rule)-rule of the people.If more than 60% of voters supported Taksin in elections,than he should be prime minister.Am I right or wrong?

And I forgot-you can not seriously compare Taksin and his crimes with Milosevic and especially Karadzic?

Perhaps you should actually read up on Thailand, maybe visit here. Then explain how your facts match reality. Since they don't and you are obviously spouting a preset idea you had before your first post despite claiming to have just googled this board ...... well ...... again ... Welcome Back.

I read this,before I found this forum:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1108114.stm

cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/02/25/thailand.thaksin.shinawatra.explainer/index.html

Shinawatra on wikipedia

then i read a whole lot of links that appeared in previous text,for example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics

Then about 1997. constitution,elections of 2001.,2005.,2006.,2007. and found some laughable explanations that court gave for its decisions-for example dismissing new prime minister because of TV cooking show,than "The elections were finally declared invalid by Thailand's Constitutional Court which found that the positioning of the voting booths violated voter privacy"...very strange decisions to be honest.And even then,why not organize new election instead of just giving power to someone who won less than 30% of votes?Unexplainable,if you ask me.

p.s. forum doesnt allow me to post direct links for some reasson

Edited March 18, 2010 by Montenegrin

[lannarebirth]

I'll bet I know more about the Balkan states, their history, poitics, leadership, etc than 95% of it's non-inhabitants. Still, I wouldn't claim to know even 1% of what has gone on there compared to the people who actually have inhabited it over time. I'll bet to fully understand it would require an incredible amount of study and knowledge and living. That said, I've never seen anywhere where the machinations of government, society, business, aristocracy, etc is more convoluted than here in Thailand. What most people know, or think they know appears almost surreal. What is true, almost no one knows.

Edited March 18, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Publicus]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment,dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Look at what the cat dragged in .

Very strange things going on indeed.

The US Government and the EU approved Thaksin's entry to Montenegro and his citizenship there? Really?!? Tell us more .

With a Montenegrian passport Thaksin wouldn't need a visa to enter EU countries.....that indeed would be interesting to see especially in respect to Germany and the UK. Yeah, let's watch whether Thaksin tests all of that.

You suddenly know so much about Thaksin and Thailand, tell us what Montenegrian "national interests" factor into allowing Thaksin an exception of the dual citizenship law of the country. Or will your boss clear the board to become a Montenegrian citizen only?

As an aside and to save me looking it up, what's the annual snowfall and average temperature there? Tell us also how you learned your English. Inquring minds want to know .

[Samuian]

But,isnt it the fact that he did some good things for poorest?You will agree that it is not coincidence that he won so many votes.You simply cannot buy that many votes.I see that Taksin had 374 out of 500 seats in Parliament.It is huge result.

The argument fails considering the even bigger then huge, "war chest" well filled, with

the "peoples money" and the ability to refill it at will, manipulating a few laws with a signature

and the power those people gave him unknowingly whilst selling their vote for barely 20 Euro's or even only

promises!

[Montenegrin]

I'll bet I know more about the Balkan states, their history, poitics, leadership, etc than 95% of it's non-inhabitants. Still, I wouldn't claim to know even 1% of what has gone on there compared to the people who actually have inhabited it over time. I'll bet to fully understand it would require an incredible amount of study and knowledge and living. That said, I've never seen anywhere where the machinations of government, society, business, aristocracy, etc is more convoluted than here in Thailand. What most people know, or think they know appears almost surreal. What is true, almost no one knows.

I agree and I confess that I know very little about Thailand.

But whole point I am trying to make is that if someone win elections he should form a goverment.Simple as that.Imagine what would happen in USA if McCane performed coup d'etat with help of army and deposed Obama.Got my point?

I know that you will say that criminals should be deposed no matter what support they have.OK-lets say that Taksin is criminal-you deposed him,no problem.But why did you deposed his succesor?Is he criminal to?Sorry,but hard to believe.Not to mention that two parties that won elections were banned.Democracy at its best.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Montenegrin

[tb86]

I am not Serb,I am Montenegrin.I didnt forget Slobo and Karadzic,but they were not democraticly elected.Milosevic banned media that wrote against him,violently suppressed any kind of opposition,even killing some of his rivals.But it is not the point,Serbia under Milosevic was not democracy and it was bombed by NATO at the end.On the other hand Thailand claims to be democracy or not?

If I am not wrong democracy=demos(people)+cratein(to rule)-rule of the people.If more than 60% of voters supported Taksin in elections,than he should be prime minister.Am I right or wrong?

And I forgot-you can not seriously compare Taksin and his crimes with Milosevic and especially Karadzic?

Perhaps you should actually read up on Thailand, maybe visit here. Then explain how your facts match reality. Since they don't and you are obviously spouting a preset idea you had before your first post despite claiming to have just googled this board ...... well ...... again ... Welcome Back.

I read this,before I found this forum:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1108114.stm

cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/02/25/thailand.thaksin.shinawatra.explainer/index.html

Shinawatra on wikipedia

then i read a whole lot of links that appeared in previous text,for example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics

Then about 1997. constitution,elections of 2001.,2005.,2006.,2007. and found some laughable explanations that court gave for its decisions-for example dismissing new prime minister because of TV cooking show,than "The elections were finally declared invalid by Thailand's Constitutional Court which found that the positioning of the voting booths violated voter privacy"...very strange decisions to be honest.And even then,why not organize new election instead of just giving power to someone who won less than 30% of votes?Unexplainable,if you ask me.

p.s. forum doesnt allow me to post direct links for some reasson

really what a small world im from montenegro as well there are at least 30 or 40 other guys here as well

Edited March 18, 2010 by tb86

[lannarebirth]

I'll bet I know more about the Balkan states, their history, poitics, leadership, etc than 95% of it's non-inhabitants. Still, I wouldn't claim to know even 1% of what has gone on there compared to the people who actually have inhabited it over time. I'll bet to fully understand it would require an incredible amount of study and knowledge and living. That said, I've never seen anywhere where the machinations of government, society, business, aristocracy, etc is more convoluted than here in Thailand. What most people know, or think they know appears almost surreal. What is true, almost no one knows.

I agree and I confess that I know very little about Thailand.

But whole point I am trying to make is that if someone win elections he should form a goverment.Simple as that.Imagine what would happen in USA if McCane performed coup d'etat with help of army and deposed Obama.Got my point?

I know that you will say that criminals should be deposed no matter what support they have.OK-lets say that Taksin is criminal-you deposed him,no problem.But why did you deposed his succesor?Is he criminal to?Sorry,but hard to believe.Not to mention that two parties that won elections were banned.Democracy at its best.

Yes, the successors and their parties were criminal too. That is why Thaksin selected them. The Army didn't remove them the courts did.

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Well I am not claiming to be from Montenegro-I AM FROM MONTENEGRO-northern part of it to be precise.If there is any of you who speaks Montenegrin(Crnogorski),Serbian(Srpski),Bosnian(Bosanski) ili Croatian(Hrvatski) I will be glad to prove my words.It is basicly all the same language.

Hills behind Shinavatra on that picture are called Orjen and Rumija,btw.

I dont know,it seems to me that Sinavtras arguments are not that bad and no it is not translated to Montenegrin-I read it on internet(BBC profile of Sinavatra among others).

Welcome to the Thaivisa forum, mate. I believe you are from Montenegro. You don't need to prove that. You just need to stick around the forum for awhile and you will know who to reply and who to ignore.

[Montenegrin]

Welcome to the Thaivisa forum, mate. I believe you are from Montenegro. You don't need to prove that. You just need to stick around the forum for awhile and you will know who to reply and who to ignore.

Thank you

I am from Montenegro and I dont know what would I benefit by lying,becouse things we say on forums matters for nothing to be honest-but if someone doesnt believe me,than ok-what can I do.

@lannarebirth

So,your people like to vote for criminals?Dont think so.

But even if that is the case,why not new elections?

@Publicus

To be honest,I dont know what is our national interest in giving Taksin our passport.Probably request from USA or EU,cant see what else could it be

Dont worry about snow.There is enough snow in mountines,but we have nice coastal region where there is no snow at all.Funny things are happening-it is much warmer in last 5-6 years than it was before.Global warming maybe,who knows

[lannarebirth]

Welcome to the Thaivisa forum, mate. I believe you are from Montenegro. You don't need to prove that. You just need to stick around the forum for awhile and you will know who to reply and who to ignore.

Thank you

I am from Montenegro and I dont know what would I benefit by lying,becouse things we say on forums matters for nothing to be honest-but if someone doesnt believe me,than ok-what can I do.

@lannarebirth

So,your people like to vote for criminals? Dont think so.

They are not "my" people. I am only a guest here, but I would say voting for criminals is not something that bothers the majority of Thai people. Even Thaksin's supporters acknowledge he is a criminal. His own lawyers defend him not on the basis of his non-criminality, but on the basis of why should the court judge him?

But even if that is the case,why not new elections?

The current PM came to power through constitutional means. There is no need for new elections till his term ends. His government is not related at all to Thaksin's former government. The calls for new elections you hear are in an effort to change the constitution to enable pardons for Thaksin, who cannot escape culpability for his crimes in any other fashion.

@Publicus

To be honest,I dont know what is our national interest in giving Taksin our passport.Probably request from USA or EU,cant see what else could it be

Dont worry about snow.There is enough snow in mountines,but we have nice coastal region where there is no snow at all.Funny things are happening-it is much warmer in last 5-6 years than it was before.Global warming maybe,who knows

Edited March 18, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Tony121]

Thaksin and the montenegro red hats !

[Publicus]

Welcome to the Thaivisa forum, mate. I believe you are from Montenegro. You don't need to prove that. You just need to stick around the forum for awhile and you will know who to reply and who to ignore.

Thank you

I am from Montenegro and I dont know what would I benefit by lying,becouse things we say on forums matters for nothing to be honest-but if someone doesnt believe me,than ok-what can I do.

@lannarebirth

So,your people like to vote for criminals?Dont think so.

But even if that is the case,why not new elections?

@Publicus

To be honest,I dont know what is our national interest in giving Taksin our passport.Probably request from USA or EU,cant see what else could it be

Dont worry about snow.There is enough snow in mountines,but we have nice coastal region where there is no snow at all.Funny things are happening-it is much warmer in last 5-6 years than it was before.Global warming maybe,who knows

Lemme ask my US Senator to make an inquiry of the State Department as to whether the US Government requested the government of Montenegro to admit Thaksin there or to grant him a Montenegran passport and citizenship. I'd like to know the interest of my government in doing any such thing, if my government indeed did do as you speculate. Of course I could make the request for information directly to the US DEPSTATE myself. Maybe the Thai FM might have some interest in any such actions by the US and/or EU.

It's nice to know it's getting warmer there in Montenegro, with more hot air around all the time. Also I hope the difference in time zones doesn't disrupt your postings as a new member of TVF as you clearly are a quick study about Thailand and add a new voice to the SOS here.

[Montenegrin]

Welcome to the Thaivisa forum, mate. I believe you are from Montenegro. You don't need to prove that. You just need to stick around the forum for awhile and you will know who to reply and who to ignore.

Thank you

I am from Montenegro and I dont know what would I benefit by lying,becouse things we say on forums matters for nothing to be honest-but if someone doesnt believe me,than ok-what can I do.

@lannarebirth

So,your people like to vote for criminals?Dont think so.

But even if that is the case,why not new elections?

@Publicus

To be honest,I dont know what is our national interest in giving Taksin our passport.Probably request from USA or EU,cant see what else could it be

Dont worry about snow.There is enough snow in mountines,but we have nice coastal region where there is no snow at all.Funny things are happening-it is much warmer in last 5-6 years than it was before.Global warming maybe,who knows

Lemme ask my US Senator to make an inquiry of the State Department as to whether the US Government requested the government of Montenegro to admit Thaksin there or to grant him a Montenegran passport and citizenship. I'd like to know the interest of my government in doing any such thing, if my government indeed did do as you speculate. Of course I could make the request for information directly to the US DEPSTATE myself. Maybe the Thai FM might have some interest in any such actions by the US and/or EU.

It's nice to know it's getting warmer there in Montenegro, with more hot air around all the time. Also I hope the difference in time zones doesn't disrupt your postings as a new member of TVF as you clearly are a quick study about Thailand and add a new voice to the SOS here.

Well,it is now 7:43 here and I didnt sleep all night if you believe me.

I tell you-there is no way my goverment would give passport to Sinavatra if USA and EU said no.Do you have any other logical explanation why we gave him passport.Maybe he gave money for it,but then why Montenegro and not some other country?However,if USA and especialy EU said no,there is no way he could get our passport.I am serious!

[anotherpeter]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment,dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Here is a bit more information you should read to get another view: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html

1) It is very questionable whether he (or his parties) won any elections fair and square. Lots of opinions and information about that around here.

2) The decisions of the court cases were explained in great detail. Read up on them before you simply say that it was political.

3) They issued an arrest warrant for Thailand. They have asked Interpol to find out where he is and try and arrest him based on that. Interpol may or may not recognise it, but no harm in asking.

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

Edited March 18, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Tony121]

When was an arrest warrant issued for Thailand ?

[anotherpeter]

When was an arrest warrant issued for Thailand ?

Doesn't he have a 2 year jail sentence hanging over him? The only way they can get him here for that is to arrest him. Therefore, there would probably be an arrest warrant.

[mazeltov]

really what a small world im from montenegro as well there are at least 30 or 40 other guys here as well

the expats i met and use to have a small talk now and then in bangkok coming mostly from eastern europe and there is a fair share from the Adriatic coast amongst them, much more than i came across us-american or having a chat with other native English speakers.

unlike this board where most people seems to be from UK, US or Australia.

[Montenegrin]

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

Becouse we have problems of our own and our main goals are to join NATO and EU as soon as possible.In order to do so we must follow USA and EU policies.For example-we sent unit to Avganistan,recognized independence of Kosovo thus coming to great diplomatic conflict with Serbia...We really had no need to do this things if we werent told to do so.I dont say that we must do anything,but it is wise to follow them for now.

Thus,I am sure that goverment consulted EU and USA prior allowing Taksin to gain our citizenship,becouse it was not ussual thing to do and it can have,well,even global consequences.Not something that little countries should normally be bothered with.

I dont know who started initiative.Maybe Taksin consider to spend big amount of money in Montenegro and thats the reason why he got our passport?Who knows-but one thing is for sure-either way,EU and USA were consulted by our goverment and gave their oppinion,I can allmost guarantee that.

[Montenegrin]

Here is a bit more information you should read to get another view: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html

1) It is very questionable whether he (or his parties) won any elections fair and square. Lots of opinions and information about that around here.

2) The decisions of the court cases were explained in great detail. Read up on them before you simply say that it was political.

3) They issued an arrest warrant for Thailand. They have asked Interpol to find out where he is and try and arrest him based on that. Interpol may or may not recognise it, but no harm in asking.

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

I will read this in next 2-3 days and make up my mind .

LOL-itsounded like it is important what I think about this

[janderton]

... if someone win elections he should form a goverment.Simple as that.

is not that simple...

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand

The country is a kingdom, a constitutional monarchy with King Bhumibol Adulyadej, the ninth king of the House of Chakri, who has reigned since 1946, making him the world's longest-serving current head of state and the longest-reigning monarch in Thai history.The king is officially titled as the Head of State, the Head of the Armed Forces, an Upholder of the Buddhist religion, and the Defender of all Faiths...

[anotherpeter]

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

Becouse we have problems of our own and our main goals are to join NATO and EU as soon as possible.In order to do so we must follow USA and EU policies.For example-we sent unit to Avganistan,recognized independence of Kosovo thus coming to great diplomatic conflict with Serbia...We really had no need to do this things if we werent told to do so.I dont say that we must do anything,but it is wise to follow them for now.

Thus,I am sure that goverment consulted EU and USA prior allowing Taksin to gain our citizenship,becouse it was not ussual thing to do and it can have,well,even global consequences.Not something that little countries should normally be bothered with.

I dont know who started initiative.Maybe Taksin consider to spend big amount of money in Montenegro and thats the reason why he got our passport?Who knows-but one thing is for sure-either way,EU and USA were consulted by our goverment and gave their oppinion,I can allmost guarantee that.

OK. That makes some sense.

Thaksin is probably not on some war-crimes list that stops people from going anywhere.

[Publicus]

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

Becouse we have problems of our own and our main goals are to join NATO and EU as soon as possible.In order to do so we must follow USA and EU policies.For example-we sent unit to Avganistan,recognized independence of Kosovo thus coming to great diplomatic conflict with Serbia...We really had no need to do this things if we werent told to do so.I dont say that we must do anything,but it is wise to follow them for now.

Thus,I am sure that goverment consulted EU and USA prior allowing Taksin to gain our citizenship,becouse it was not ussual thing to do and it can have,well,even global consequences.Not something that little countries should normally be bothered with.

I dont know who started initiative.Maybe Taksin consider to spend big amount of money in Montenegro and thats the reason why he got our passport?Who knows-but one thing is for sure-either way,EU and USA were consulted by our goverment and gave their oppinion,I can allmost guarantee that.

I can almost guarantee you're full of <deleted>.

[Meridian007]

It seems that the Nation has a lot of catching up o do, just as their big examples. Prem cs have never seen a computer, the Nation obviously never used Twitter. Days ago pictures of Thaksin drinking coffee and eating cake in Montenegro were available just as real (foreign) newspapers were reporting on it.

Quite funny for a newspaper that is terrible edited and has only one goal in mind: Being biased towards democratic forces and always kiss up with the influential.

Really? There were photos? I looked but I couldn't find them. There are pics of him eating cake with family from a few years ago, but not any that I could find from this trip. Please link to them for us!

[robert00]

"POOR DEVIL"....... hopefully literally speaking............... He must be drawing all of his hidden accounts down alot - with all of his relocating, and will soon be "poor" (as the poor in Thailand who he cheated out of a better life)............. Wouldn't that be a fitting end of the story?????????????

I would think twice before I would say Taksin cheated the poor, as he did help them indeed. Why do you think all the protests are for now in Bangkok???

[anotherpeter]

Here is a bit more information you should read to get another view: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html

1) It is very questionable whether he (or his parties) won any elections fair and square. Lots of opinions and information about that around here.

2) The decisions of the court cases were explained in great detail. Read up on them before you simply say that it was political.

3) They issued an arrest warrant for Thailand. They have asked Interpol to find out where he is and try and arrest him based on that. Interpol may or may not recognise it, but no harm in asking.

4) Why would Montenegro bother asking USA and EU about who they can and can not give citizenship to.

I will read this in next 2-3 days and make up my mind .

LOL-itsounded like it is important what I think about this

It's important to us that you see what all sides think. You came in with a very one-sided view of the situation. ALmost as if you were someone else, trying to bait the anti-Thaksinites.

But once you read some more information you will see that there is little argument to come back with "for Thaksin". Most pro-Thaksin posters here aren't able to say much once they are given a few facts.

[Tony121]

When was an arrest warrant issued for Thailand ?

Doesn't he have a 2 year jail sentence hanging over him? The only way they can get him here for that is to arrest him. Therefore, there would probably be an arrest warrant.

Did you mean an arrest warrant was issued for Thaksin ?