Thai Red Shirts Declare 'Class War'

[rixalex]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

I guess the way they denounce Mugabe, North Korea or Burma obviously makes them biased too.

If you want to make silly comments that imply the situation here is similar to the situation in Zimbabwe, North Korea and Burma, why don't you just go the whole hog and compare Abhisit to Hitler?

Interesting and very enlightening read.

Interesting and very enlightening translated: it said things I wanted to hear and had me nodding my head.

[Siam Simon]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

I guess the way they denounce Mugabe, North Korea or Burma obviously makes them biased too.

If you want to make silly comments that imply the situation here is similar to the situation in Zimbabwe, North Korea and Burma, why don't you just go the whole hog and compare Abhisit to Hitler?

He doesn't need to because he very obviously isn't comparing the situations in the various countries mentioned: He's using The Economist's editorial policy on Mugabe, North Korea and Burma to show just how bloody silly your trashing of The Economist is

[Publicus]

Neither Thaksin nor his Redshirts have censored this issue of the Economist from (easy) access to everyone in Thailand, nor is this the first time Thai authorities have prohibited an issue of the Economist being distributed......nor is it the second time the authorities have acted as authoritarians.....or the third time.....nor will it be the last time.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Waiting the Court decision about democrat 258 Millions. I am afraid the decision will reinforce the double standard feeling and give more momentum to the Class war.

[yoshiwara]

The sad thing about ''The Class War'' is that when and if it happens the very people who have been whipped into a frenzy are the ones that will suffer the most as history has proved.

The Russian revolution, Mao Tse Tungs revolution, Fidel Castro liberation of the masses, Pol Pot and the urbanisation and genocide of the people of Kampuchea, the Burmese generals etc the list is endless.

When the truth arrives it is too late for the common man and woman in the street to react, terror is in place, one form of perceived class oppression has been replaced with a far more draconian form of oppression as again history sadly shows only too well.

Once the ''Liberators'' are in power they begin their exploitation and oppression of the masses.

Society is by virtue of the people in it a class structured society, ''Some are born to lead some are born to follow''

The inequality in Thai society is due to the long practised system of patronage which has been in place for centuries, it will take many years for the system to change, violent changes breed more violent reactions.

My opinion is that if some of the less well balanced members of the self proclaimed Red Shirt leaders are edged out of position we will see a more constructive dialogue coming out of the leadership. At the end of the day matters need to, nay have to be discussed so as all levels of Thai society can move forward in harmony for their mutual benefits.

Thaksin is not needed no more than Penkair is along with impetuous military personnel and the rabid hate mongers and strolling minstrels who openly state ''They are above the law'' these characters state that in the event of their arrest hordes will besiege the police station in order to release them.

Indeed it bodes well for a stable democratic society such as these types advocate, mob rule, anarchy, I am above the law does it not ?

Methinks their true desire is to create a super Hi So group to further their own ends, indeed an interesting scenario.

''Don't do as I do , do as I say''

The working class can kiss my A***

I've got the foreman's job at last

I'm out of work and on the dole

You can stick your red flag down a hole.

Sung to the tune of the Internationle

Our western democraties have been built through crisis, strikes, uprisings and even wars and revolutions. Today most of our Heads of government are sensitive to the equilibrium of our societies, they do know that they have to manage not only the Economy but also the social environment. Today in Thailand, there is a huge imbalance with leaders focusing nearly exclusively on their Industry performance, 50% of the Population is sidelined with no hope and very poor conditions.

The results of upraisings is often negociations and social readjustments, not only the radical changes of Society that you mention.

I do wish that Thais leaders will take the correct decisions to defuse this situation....but time is running, against them

What a load of sentimentalist tosh masquerading as analysis.

Reading between the lines it is the usual Thaksin apologetics.

The idea that Thailand is a special case is nonsense.

All societies are unequal and subject to class conflict of one degree or another.

Thailand unfortunately has the corrupt leech Thaksin wanting to continue his disruptive blood-sucking.

And not very subtle forum cheer-leaders as part of the baggage.

Edited March 22, 2010 by yoshiwara

[yoshiwara]

Waiting the Court decision about democrat 258 Millions. I am afraid the decision will reinforce the double standard feeling and give more momentum to the Class war.

More mealy-mouthed Thaksin apologetics.

[Thai at Heart]

If you want to make silly comments that imply the situation here is similar to the situation in Zimbabwe, North Korea and Burma, why don't you just go the whole hog and compare Abhisit to Hitler?

Interesting and very enlightening read.

Interesting and very enlightening translated: it said things I wanted to hear and had me nodding my head.

I was not comparing the situation here with those countries, I was comparing the coverage of Zimbabwe, North Korea, or Burma in the Economist and it's apparent lack of bias, yet your opinion Thailand is far too a complicated place for a journalist to fathom. What truck does the economist have with Thailand? Oh of course after over 100 years of respected journalism, Thaksin has put the Economist in his pocket. Of course, one thing in common with those countries and Thailand is a draconian control of the media that prints articles that do not match the views of the rulers of those countries.

The coverage of a newspaper is still valuable, you simply have to know where it is coming from. I take pro-democracy, pro-free market over nothing any day. On the basis that no publication in Thailand could be able to print the article that was in the Economist, I take the view that something is better than nothing. I would say that the reputation of the Economist for accurate reporting is well proven. You may not.

And there were indeed some interesting parts to the article that did not even come close to registering in discussion in Thailand which go some way to explaining why Abhisit's job is triply hard. I value anything that can throw light on a subject which we are forbidden to discuss. Burn those books people, there's danger in words don't you know.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[jayboy]

Opinion

CHANG NOI

Witness the death of deference

Published in The Nation on March 22, 2010

FOR MANY REASONS, Red March has been very, very disturbing. It hasn't conformed to expectations. It hasn't confirmed prejudices. It has been new and different.

For a start it has been unsettling for many people because it was simply so big. The crowd did not approach the dreamy promise of a million people, but as the sun-baked BBC correspondent breathlessly exclaimed, it was the biggest political gathering in Thailand for over three decades. This was no small feat given the obstructions. It's not so difficult to stage a rally when attendees only have to change their shirt and take a short taxi hop from the office. The logistics are a lot more difficult and expensive when the rally site is hundreds of kilometres away. Provincial governors were ordered to obstruct the movement of people. Police set up countless checkpoints. Pro-Newin elements in the northeast laid on entertainment and issued threats to deter people from leaving for the capital. The media carried reports about money distributed to protesters to move. None carried reports about the money spent to prevent them moving. Despite all these efforts, downtown Bangkok was a sea of red. The 10-kilometre column from Rajdamnoen to Phaholyothin broke records.

Red March was unsettling also because (so far) it has truly been non-violent. The laborious police searches of buses and trucks turned up next to nothing. The TV news was reduced to showing the shock discovery of a handful of rounds of ammunition. A massive number of people roamed all around the capital for a week with no more than a few scuffles. Bangkok motorists looked on grumpily, but the sheer carnival atmosphere of the protests tended to keep tempers in check. Partly this orderliness is due to the police who invested enormous efforts in keeping the traffic moving. This effort betrays considerable sympathy within the force for the red-shirt cause — another thing that is unsettling. The lack of violence is all the more remarkable given the disorganised state of the redshirt leadership. These were supposed to be the rural hordes, the barbarians at the gates, the great unwashed, red in tooth and claw. But there was no sign of ploughs beaten into swords, let alone barbed wire, gun-toting "guards", or piles of used golf clubs.

Red March was worrying also because of the number of pick-up trucks. The protesters were supposed to be the downtrodden. And the thing about the downtrodden is that they really are trodden down into resignation, passivity, deference. They can usually be ignored or easily managed. But these were the aggrieved with assets. Of course many foot soldiers of the movement do count among the least well off. But the social range of the protesters is much wider than the simple analysis of the poor against the privileged. In the far north and the northeast, it is not just the poor who support the red shirts but just about everybody.

Most of all, Red March was disturbing because of the enormous show of local support in Bangkok. From the moment the columns of pick-ups began arriving in the city, people gathered on the pavement to clap and cheer and wave in welcome. Some of these fans were taxi drivers and motorcycle taxi riders, the movement's staunch allies. But others were true-blue Bangkokians. All along the route to Phaholyothin people came out of shops and offices to line the street and cheer. Chang Noi happened on the column after it had left Abhisit's house in Sukumvit. It was like being at carnival. Jolly luk thung music was blaring from loudspeakers, augmented with a lot of extra ching-chap, chanting, and cheering. On the trucks, people were waving, singing, and giving the thumbs-up. Not one unsmiling face. Alongside, people had come to windows, or onto office balconies, or out from shops onto the pavement. Most had snatched up anything red to wave along — a tie, a towel, a hat, a piece of paper. The press and the pundits have played the conflict as the provinces against the city. But how does that analysis fit with these pavement scenes?

In Chang Noi's neighbourhood, there's a worker community. They used to be pro-Democrat because the local Democrat politicians helped them to get residence rights and basic services. They served as Democrat canvassers in several elections. They are now deep red. In the evenings, the kids come out to play on the street. For a year now, one of their favourite games has been "street protest." They march up and down and wave flags. They shout "No more double standards," "Down with amat ," and "Abhisit out." They are not in any hurry to move off the road to allow a car to pass. Their average age is around ten.

A decade ago, Chang Noi predicted that the city folk would have to build a wall around Bangkok, or float the city away into the Gulf of Thailand, a bit like Singapore. Of course, that has not happened. Instead they have tended to brick up their own eyes and their ears. While this extraordinary event was unfolding in the city, the mainstream media made heroic efforts to ignore it. No vox pops. No atmospheric scene painting. Few pictures. Only when the blood campaign caught the eye of the foreign media (and had an implied element of violence) did the coverage get more enthusiastic.

Instead of reportage we got endless predictions of a bad ending. The numbers are increasing, so it will turn violent. The numbers are dropping, so it will turn violent. The temperature is high, so tempers will snap.

Red March has been disturbing because it has messages so striking that they slip through the walls. Despite government efforts using taxpayers' money, it was huge. Despite the chaotic state of the red movement's leadership, it held together through fellow feeling. Despite the conventional analyses, the support spreads far beyond the rural poor. Hard to ignore despite those bricks.

Edited March 22, 2010 by jayboy

[Jerrytheyoung]

Today I have read the Nation Comment: method Coue..(http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/22/politics/Peace-dialogue-by-who-and-for-whom-30125258.html): just repeating what you want, you just convince yourself but it has no real impact.

I just try to imagine (with the example of May 68 in memory), how our great leader Charles de Gaulle will have managed the Thai situation (if he was still living and in the Abhisit position). Just a fiction:

First I think he will have created two task forces in its team: one for managing "hour to hour" the development of the situation, a second one for studying modifications to the budget and how to respond to the revendications in a responsible and reasonable way. Then he will go to his village, in order to take some rests and take his own decisions wisely, far from the turbulences with interdiction to disturb him except emergency cases.

A couple of days later, he will reappear and announce a formal TV show or Press Conference.

This Media event will be prepared very carefully with the Think task Force and communication advisors.

Then going in, he will adress directrly to Grass Roots and Thais people, ignoring the leaders, parties...

Point one he will state: "I have understood what you want and I agree the thai society must walk at the same rythm Bangkok

and the rest of the Country."

Then he will say " I have decided to allocate X % of the Budget to immediate measures in order to reduce the social differences, I give order to my concerned Ministers (agriculture...) to open negociations with the professionals for implementing the measures. (rice price subsidised, irrigation, cooperatives, loans for investment at very favourable conditions in the concerned regions)

We are going to reorganise our Economy by delocation whenever possible of Industries, creating some areas with tax incitation in order than jobs are created evenly in Thailand with better prospect for all.....

we will accelerate the reform of our Education system in order to give a fair chance to all.

we continue our fight against corruption at every levels...

I need to maintain the parliament and the current majority to implement those measures, so this parliament session has to go to its term.

This is an important effort of our Country , I need your contribution in order to face the challenge....

......

End of Fiction

The fact to adress directly to the Country and overpassing the Parties is creating a new political scheme, a new coalition: up to the parties to position themselves or to regroup on the proposal. He will have made a short cut directly to the base.

Is such a fiction realist in Thailand?

[rixalex]

I was not comparing the situation here with those countries,

Erm, yes you were, and what you went on to say below proves that:

Of course, one thing in common with those countries and Thailand is a draconian control of the media that prints articles that do not match the views of the rulers of those countries.

What truck does the economist have with Thailand? Oh of course after over 100 years of respected journalism, Thaksin has put the Economist in his pocket.

I don't think Thaksin has them in his pocket by any means, but i do think they have been sympathetic to his cause since the get-go. Anyone who has followed their opinion pieces (which are quite often mistakenly held up here by those who like what they read as being news articles) for the last few years will be familiar with the angle they take. To deny they have an angle is as daft as denying The Nation one.

[Thai at Heart]

I was not comparing the situation here with those countries,

Erm, yes you were, and what you went on to say below proves that:

Of course, one thing in common with those countries and Thailand is a draconian control of the media that prints articles that do not match the views of the rulers of those countries.

What truck does the economist have with Thailand? Oh of course after over 100 years of respected journalism, Thaksin has put the Economist in his pocket.

I don't think Thaksin has them in his pocket by any means, but i do think they have been sympathetic to his cause since the get-go. Anyone who has followed their opinion pieces (which are quite often mistakenly held up here by those who like what they read as being news articles) for the last few years will be familiar with the angle they take. To deny they have an angle is as daft as denying The Nation one.

You are confusing being pro-democracy, and trying to reconcile military coups with supporting Thaksin personally. If you can't see that there are problems in Thailand that go well beyond Thaksin Shinawatra and that these are inevitably coming to a head in the next few years, then I fear you are extremely naive. If you can't be bothered to read something because you perceive it to be biased before you even see it, I feel very sorry for your lack of inquisitiveness.

I for one love reading the China Daily whilst I am there on business. It makes me feel so warm and happy to be living in such a fair and equitable country. I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

The absolute truth isn't in the Nation or the Economist individually. Fortunately, you need as a start, both.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[rixalex]

If you can't see that there are problems in Thailand that go well beyond Thaksin Shinawatra and that these are inevitably coming to a head in the next few years, then I fear you are extremely naive.

Neither thought nor said that the problems stopped with Thaksin - you assumed that.

Fully aware the problems go well beyond Thaksin. But right now, he is front and centre

If you can't be bothered to read something because you perceive it to be biased before you even see it, I feel very sorry for your lack of inquisitiveness.

I choose not to read The Economist because i've read it enough times - thanks to the frequent promoting it gets on here by red sympathisers - to know that i personally I don't like being spoon-fed someone else's agenda. Perhaps it tastes good for some.

I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

Oh dear.

[Thai at Heart]

agenda. Perhaps it tastes good for some.

I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

Oh dear.

Obviously you don't do irony either. And I quote:

I for one love reading the China Daily whilst I am there on business. It makes me feel so warm and happy to be living in such a fair and equitable country. I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Jerrytheyoung]

I for one love reading the China Daily whilst I am there on business. It makes me feel so warm and happy to be living in such a fair and equitable country. I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

Enjoy when it is still possible. A lot of observers have underlined that China development at two speeds, with a huge rural population sidelined is not sustainable on the long term. Maybe current Thai situation is just a pre-figuration of the Chinese one later. Enjoy your Mercedes....

[jayboy]

I choose not to read The Economist because i've read it enough times - thanks to the frequent promoting it gets on here by red sympathisers - to know that i personally I don't like being spoon-fed someone else's agenda. Perhaps it tastes good for some.

You have a point about the Economist, specifically that it is rather didactic in tone.I must admit I cancelled my subscription sopme time ago because I got tired of being lectured to. I think that aspect is partly house style but also perhaps a rather inflexible attitude in favour of free markets and limited government.Nevertheless it is highly intelligent and widely read by the influential, so worth monitoring.My main reservation on the Economist relates to it's sound judgement.

As to its Thailand coverage the Economist certainly seems to have the proverbial bee in it bonnet with a scatter gun approach against a range of targets.Sometimes it's quite hard to connect the dots.I have the impression that there is an editorial view that some subjects must be aired because they're not properly discussed elsewhere.This is a legitimate viewpoint but is it responsible journalism?

Basically I take the view that when intelligent adults are treated like children and told this or that is a subject which cannot be discussed, the pressure in the cooker just increases.In Thailand quite a few need to take heed of this.

[Thai at Heart]

I for one love reading the China Daily whilst I am there on business. It makes me feel so warm and happy to be living in such a fair and equitable country. I like the fact also that it is so useful for my driver to clean the windows on my Mercedes.

Enjoy when it is still possible. A lot of observers have underlined that China development at two speeds, with a huge rural population sidelined is not sustainable on the long term. Maybe current Thai situation is just a pre-figuration of the Chinese one later. Enjoy your Mercedes....

Crumbs, it must be Monday.

Lighten up people, irony obviously doesn't work in this forum.

[Samuian]

Regarding #402 Chang Noi

He ( as usual) fails to mention how much has been spend to mobilize these people, none of the "protesters" has a genuine political agenda, if so, Thailand wouldn't be where it is right at this time, err'... I mean where the people allow being led to, for some money and endless empty promises....!

This is the genuine sad part of this soap opera!

People sold their votes, their voice and now they sell their dignity, they would sell all, if asked....!

Chang Noi fails to mention who is behind all this, who is the man who stirs al this up and what his agenda is!

Sorry, Chang Noi, get real!

[jayboy]

Regarding #402 Chang Noi

He ( as usual) fails to mention how much has been spend to mobilize these people, none of the "protesters" has a genuine political agenda, if so, Thailand wouldn't be where it is right at this time, err'... I mean where the people allow being led to, for some money and endless empty promises....!

This is the genuine sad part of this soap opera!

People sold their votes, their voice and now they sell their dignity, they would sell all, if asked....!

Chang Noi fails to mention who is behind all this, who is the man who stirs al this up and what his agenda is!

Sorry, Chang Noi, get real!

Some may feel that Chang Noi,a distinguished and perceptive political commentator who has led the charge in skewering Thaksin, is a more reliable guide to current events than your stale and ignorant repetition.

[Thai at Heart]

Regarding #402 Chang Noi

He ( as usual) fails to mention how much has been spend to mobilize these people, none of the "protesters" has a genuine political agenda, if so, Thailand wouldn't be where it is right at this time, err'... I mean where the people allow being led to, for some money and endless empty promises....!

This is the genuine sad part of this soap opera!

People sold their votes, their voice and now they sell their dignity, they would sell all, if asked....!

Chang Noi fails to mention who is behind all this, who is the man who stirs al this up and what his agenda is!

Sorry, Chang Noi, get real!

Some may feel that Chang Noi,a distinguished and perceptive political commentator who has led the charge in skewering Thaksin, is a more reliable guide to current events than your stale and ignorant repetition.

Unfortunately, there are many on here who cannot swallow any opposition to their views. I am not a politician so I have the luxury of being able to plough the middle ground and TRY to understand WHY people feel the way they do.

It doesn't make any difference if I say the people are wrong on either side, if they continue to believe the way that they do. There are no absolute rights or wrongs in opinions.

It is one of the most cliched statements but in this situation true. "The only constant is change".

The status quo will move in Thailand, be it a little or a lot, but it will change and that is in my eyes good. Fortunately, I think Abhisit realises this.

His problem is convincing those around and above him that they must face up to the realities of what they face and deal with it. Instead it appears that many around him cling to the past like limpets and would rather ignore the reality of the situation.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Waiting the Court decision about democrat 258 Millions. I am afraid the decision will reinforce the double standard feeling and give more momentum to the Class war.

More mealy-mouthed Thaksin apologetics.

One of the issue is that we are immediately classified pro or con T, this is too much simplistic.

I am not supporting T. I do believe that unfortunately the mixing between the interests of poor rural population and T interests is damageable to the debate.

[lannarebirth]

Waiting the Court decision about democrat 258 Millions. I am afraid the decision will reinforce the double standard feeling and give more momentum to the Class war.

More mealy-mouthed Thaksin apologetics.

One of the issue is that we are immediately classified pro or con T, this is too much simplistic.

I am not supporting T. I do believe that unfortunately the mixing between the interests of poor rural population and T interests is damageable to the debate.

Let's say a house is on fire and you wanted to rush in and put the fire out. Would the fact that a rabid Pit Bull with a history of attacks is blocking the gate, be something you need to deal with? Maybe not, maybe you could go in another way. Maybe that's being tried, but we wouldn't know about that.

[Tejas]

Regarding #402 Chang Noi

He ( as usual) fails to mention how much has been spend to mobilize these people, none of the "protesters" has a genuine political agenda, if so, Thailand wouldn't be where it is right at this time, err'... I mean where the people allow being led to, for some money and endless empty promises....!

This is the genuine sad part of this soap opera!

People sold their votes, their voice and now they sell their dignity, they would sell all, if asked....!

Chang Noi fails to mention who is behind all this, who is the man who stirs al this up and what his agenda is!

Sorry, Chang Noi, get real!

Some may feel that Chang Noi,a distinguished and perceptive political commentator who has led the charge in skewering Thaksin, is a more reliable guide to current events than your stale and ignorant repetition.

Unfortunately, there are many on here who cannot swallow any opposition to their views. I am not a politician so I have the luxury of being able to plough the middle ground and TRY to understand WHY people feel the way they do.

It doesn't make any difference if I say the people are wrong on either side, if they continue to believe the way that they do. There are no absolute rights or wrongs in opinions.

It is one of the most cliched statements but in this situation true. "The only constant is change".

The status quo will move in Thailand, be it a little or a lot, but it will change and that is in my eyes good. Fortunately, I think Abhisit realises this.

His problem is convincing those around and above him that they must face up to the realities of what they face and deal with it. Instead it appears that many around him cling to the past like limpets and would rather ignore the reality of the situation.

All things do change and Thailand's ruling elite--both rural and urban based--must grasp this soon and change.

One positive change would be to open their market up to genuine foreign competition.

Another positive step would be to fire every academic administrator in Thailand and replace them with foreign consultants (the education system is a failure, pure and simple.......total corruption top to bottom).

The rural areas have a small ruling elite--very wealthy and powerful (which Mr. T has nothing in common with........odd the Reds support him)

The large urban areas also have a small ruling elite--very wealthy and powerful (which the majority have nothing in common with).

The elites are struggling over an economic pie.......one side wants a larger piece than the other.

The common people think it will make a difference which side wins........it will have virtually no impact on the majority (IMHO).

While they are fighting over who will get the biggest piece of the pie, the country is going down like the Titanic.

The people--both rural and urban--are suffering.

[Indo-Siam]

The sitting government administration has implemented a number of measures to help the lower income strata of society - but seems to get no credit for it.

Four measures that I have directly observed are:

1. Increasing the amount of annual taxable income that is assessed a 0% personal income tax rate from 100,000 baht, to 150,000 baht.

2. Decreasing the monthly Social Fund "tax" from 5% to 3% (for both individual withholding, and corporate matching contribution) during 2009.

3. Anyone with a monthly residential water bill below 300 baht has not had to pay anything, since mid-2009.

4. One category of public buses has eliminated collection of bus fare, since early 2009.

All of these policies have little impact on wealthy people, but should mean something to low wage-earners - and these benefits were available to everyone who used these services - not just favored political segments of the population.

Compare this to the spoils/patronage program under Thaksin's administration - whereby each "pooyai bahn" up-country was given (2 x 1,000,000 baht) "micro-loans" to disperse within his community, as he saw fit.

[bulmercke]

Opinion

CHANG NOI

Witness the death of deference

Published in The Nation on March 22, 2010

Most of all, Red March was disturbing because of the enormous show of local support in Bangkok. From the moment the columns of pick-ups began arriving in the city, people gathered on the pavement to clap and cheer and wave in welcome. Some of these fans were taxi drivers and motorcycle taxi riders, the movement's staunch allies. But others were true-blue Bangkokians. All along the route to Phaholyothin people came out of shops and offices to line the street and cheer. Chang Noi happened on the column after it had left Abhisit's house in Sukumvit. It was like being at carnival. Jolly luk thung music was blaring from loudspeakers, augmented with a lot of extra ching-chap, chanting, and cheering. On the trucks, people were waving, singing, and giving the thumbs-up. Not one unsmiling face. Alongside, people had come to windows, or onto office balconies, or out from shops onto the pavement. Most had snatched up anything red to wave along — a tie, a towel, a hat, a piece of paper. The press and the pundits have played the conflict as the provinces against the city. But how does that analysis fit with these pavement scenes?

This is what must really be worrying Abhisit and the ruling elites the most. Scary stuff for them!

After witnessing the protest march last Saturday first hand I've got a feeling the protests will progressively grow in number over the coming weeks and months - that's assuming there isn't some major unforeseen incident (or series of incidents) that derails the movement. Possibly orchestrated by the government/military in order to discredit the whole movement and deter ordinary people from attending such massive gatherings for fear for their own personal safety.

The over-throw of Marcos in the Philippines in 1986 comes to mind. People Power.

And this movement is much more than about Thaksin as its leaders have repeatedly proclaimed from their stage.

[anotherpeter]

This is what must really be worrying Abhisit and the ruling elites the most. Scary stuff for them!

After witnessing the protest march last Saturday first hand I've got a feeling the protests will progressively grow in number over the coming weeks and months - that's assuming there isn't some major unforeseen incident (or series of incidents) that derails the movement. Possibly orchestrated by the government/military in order to discredit the whole movement and deter ordinary people from attending such massive gatherings for fear for their own personal safety.

The over-throw of Marcos in the Philippines in 1986 comes to mind. People Power.

And this movement is much more than about Thaksin as its leaders have repeatedly proclaimed from their stage.

It will be very interesting to see how many they get for their next parade.

But so far, the numbers didn't get anywhere near the "million man march" they started talking about, or even the 600,000 or 300,000 that they had predicted during the week before their main protest.

Even for the parade they were talking about getting much more than the 25,000 that took part. Getting a few people standing on the streets as they went past doesn't say much about their support either. Even the extra crowds that were at the major intersections supporting them says more about the numbers that were not supporting them.

If they don't get more than the 25,000 from Saturday, what next?

Edited March 22, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Thai at Heart]

Unfortunately, there are many on here who cannot swallow any opposition to their views. I am not a politician so I have the luxury of being able to plough the middle ground and TRY to understand WHY people feel the way they do.

It doesn't make any difference if I say the people are wrong on either side, if they continue to believe the way that they do. There are no absolute rights or wrongs in opinions.

It is one of the most cliched statements but in this situation true. "The only constant is change".

The status quo will move in Thailand, be it a little or a lot, but it will change and that is in my eyes good. Fortunately, I think Abhisit realises this.

His problem is convincing those around and above him that they must face up to the realities of what they face and deal with it. Instead it appears that many around him cling to the past like limpets and would rather ignore the reality of the situation.

All things do change and Thailand's ruling elite--both rural and urban based--must grasp this soon and change.

One positive change would be to open their market up to genuine foreign competition.

Another positive step would be to fire every academic administrator in Thailand and replace them with foreign consultants (the education system is a failure, pure and simple.......total corruption top to bottom).

The rural areas have a small ruling elite--very wealthy and powerful (which Mr. T has nothing in common with........odd the Reds support him)

The large urban areas also have a small ruling elite--very wealthy and powerful (which the majority have nothing in common with).

The elites are struggling over an economic pie.......one side wants a larger piece than the other.

The common people think it will make a difference which side wins........it will have virtually no impact on the majority (IMHO).

While they are fighting over who will get the biggest piece of the pie, the country is going down like the Titanic.

The people--both rural and urban--are suffering.

You are mostly right. This entire fight has been over who controls the pie in the future and largely the poor have been picked up and dragged into it. Don't forget they have been neglected by all political parties for decades.

However, that doesn't make it any less relevant that the poor do have a legitimate gripe about their lot in life and where they fit into the political and economic future in Thailand. The dems have been around for a long time and the have virtually never made any progress into the North East. This is partly because of the patronage style of Isaan politics but it is also because they didn't want or need to get involved.

Well times have changed and they now need to get down and dirty and really deliver something for the rural poor or they will not succeed. If they don't succeed the country will remain extremely divided on geographic and economic terms at a time when somehow it needs to remain united.

Can they re-invent themselves and convince their stalwart supporters that giving a bit back to the poorest areas in the country is good in the long term for the development of the country? Good luck Abhisit.

[TAWP]

OK, I am not a supporter of either T or A.

I just find that the social imbalance between northern rural and Bangkokian is dangerous, unfair and not sustainable and it is the priority number one to be fixed.

Can you explain me what is the Abhisit (because he is the PM in command) policy for fixing this problem? What is the Budget and the means allocated and why in the Post, today, the Farmers are threatening to ban voting Democrat?

Nonsense.

The economical imbalance between the urban middle class and the rural south is more dangerous, as we can see from the last 8 years of insurgency.

Not withstanding that Thaksin's regime accelerated the imbalance (giving aid to Northern farmers to grow the same products in the South and not giving aid to the South when there is regional disasters etc).

But then again, we already know that Thaksin does not support the poor if they live in areas he don't control...as it is only direct payment for power we are talking about. Not actual support.

[Jerrytheyoung]

OK, I am not a supporter of either T or A.

I just find that the social imbalance between northern rural and Bangkokian is dangerous, unfair and not sustainable and it is the priority number one to be fixed.

Can you explain me what is the Abhisit (because he is the PM in command) policy for fixing this problem? What is the Budget and the means allocated and why in the Post, today, the Farmers are threatening to ban voting Democrat?

Nonsense.

The economical imbalance between the urban middle class and the rural south is more dangerous, as we can see from the last 8 years of insurgency.

Not withstanding that Thaksin's regime accelerated the imbalance (giving aid to Northern farmers to grow the same products in the South and not giving aid to the South when there is regional disasters etc).

But then again, we already know that Thaksin does not support the poor if they live in areas he don't control...as it is only direct payment for power we are talking about. Not actual support.

HOTCHPOTCH

For your information the Southern unrest is limited to 3 former autonomous muslims entities, the Thai government in the 70's has "normalised" the status of those 3 entities, they have lost their autonomy and the administration is now centralised.

The unrest is limited to those 3 provinces, the west part of the Southern Thailand is not involved (Satun). If you want to compare it is similar to the situation of the "Pays Basque" in Spain. Initially, the unrest has been triggered by the Malay (ex) hierarchy of those provinces who have lost their positions.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jerrytheyoung]

In the competitor newspaper, an excellent article, well documented about the "Gap" between social classes in Thailand. It gives another perspective to the conflict.

Extracts

From officia statistics sources the income per Capita in Thailand (2006)

NE region 36,500 TBT

Southern region 90,700 TBT

Bangkok and Vicinity 290,000TBT

Have to be read absolutely, will avoid to post stupidities

Edited March 22, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[TAWP]

OK, I am not a supporter of either T or A.

I just find that the social imbalance between northern rural and Bangkokian is dangerous, unfair and not sustainable and it is the priority number one to be fixed.

Can you explain me what is the Abhisit (because he is the PM in command) policy for fixing this problem? What is the Budget and the means allocated and why in the Post, today, the Farmers are threatening to ban voting Democrat?

Nonsense.

The economical imbalance between the urban middle class and the rural south is more dangerous, as we can see from the last 8 years of insurgency.

Not withstanding that Thaksin's regime accelerated the imbalance (giving aid to Northern farmers to grow the same products in the South and not giving aid to the South when there is regional disasters etc).

But then again, we already know that Thaksin does not support the poor if they live in areas he don't control...as it is only direct payment for power we are talking about. Not actual support.

HOTCHPOTCH

For your information the Southern unrest is limited to 3 former autonomous muslims entities, the Thai government in the 70's has "normalised" the status of those 3 entities, they have lost their autonomy and the administration is now centralised.

The unrest is limited to those 3 provinces, the west part of the Southern Thailand is not involved (Satun). If you want to compare it is similar to the situation of the "Pays Basque" in Spain. Initially, the unrest has been triggered by the Malay (ex) hierarchy of those provinces who have lost their positions.

You read the post as the devil reads the bible.

Yes, the violence is limited to mainly 3 provinces, and no-were did I wrote anything else.

The southern farmers plight not being listened to is true and not something that is limited to the 3 provinces with unrest.

And that is the point. The north does not have a copyright on having poor people.