The Effect Of Hr 3200 (us Health Care Bill) On Expat Americans

[Jingthing]

Some points. Yes the plan is to hire more IRS agents to enforce the insurance requirement which starts in 2014. No, I don't think the idea is to put people in prison for not buying health insurance. Also note, expats are EXEMPT from the requirement to obtain insurance, of course now like all citizens, but also in 2014 and beyond. Given that Americans weren't ready for single payer universal health insurance like the more civilized, advanced countries, there was really little choice left but to add an enforcement factor to the policy to get almost everyone insured. For this to work, the pool needs to be very big, and include young and healthy people. Also note under the new health law, older Americas (I think over 45) can and most likely will be charged as much as three times the rates as young people, so that is an element of some fairness for young people who mostly don't need much health care.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jingthing

[samran]

Socialism isn't a dirty word, you know. Too bad the Obama health law isn't MORE socialist, like Medicare, a program people seem to like an awful lot.

Give up jingers.

you are trying to debate people (grumpy old men) who probably still think the earth is flat and guide their 'thinking' (a stretch) by labels they hear on FOX news.

You've got global precedence, health economic data, and indeed orthodox rational economic theory which states that universal health care is a good thing not only for peoples health, but for the economy as a whole as a result of better health outcomes for less money invested.

[PeaceBlondie]

Nine off-topic political posts deleted. Stay on topic.

[VegasVic]

Quote CNN:

"This is going to go down as a great day in American history just like when the medicare and social secruity bills were signed into history"

....medicare and social security, both headed towards bankruptcy.

the us government in massive debt with no way out

the us government with 0% interest rates

the us government paying 400 billion a year in interest payments

X million smokers now ready for their health care

X million obese now ready for their health care

the bill is not going to lower the cost of healthcare - stocks up on the news LOL

BARRACK OBAMA

WORLD SAVIOR

itd be great if more than 5% of america understood economics like

AMERICA IS BANKRUPT

EUROPE IS BANKRUPT

WE JUST MADE IT THROUGH WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT DEPRESSION

INTEREST RATES ARE ZERO

INFLATION IS INEVITABLE WITH ZERO % INTEREST RATES

I guess that I would have to agree with most of this post One note would be that Europe (for the most part) is far more bankrupt than the U.S. and has less of an opportunity to grow itself out of its problems, but that is kind of like saying that my countries cancer is not as far along as your countries cancer Also inflation will be kept at bay for quite some time given the spending obama is set upon there will no doubt be a second dip to this recession and deflationary presures will continue for quite a while!

[VegasVic]

Maybe some Obama loving American can explain to me why after passing a so called Health Bill the first thing he did was to employ 16,500 extra tax inspectors to check, fine and imprison those who do not pay the new insurance.

would you perhaps explain in which bar you got these news and was it before or after midnight?

Actually H20 is not far off, the section of the bill that I read calls for 16,000 new IRS agents to enforce obamacare Instead of hiring more IRS agents and going socialist, the U.S. could have taken the opposite tack and enacted the fair tax thereby doing away with the IRS alltogether and enacting a 23-26% consumption tax, this would encourage savings and investment and with the corporate tax going to 0%, it would bring back many of the millions of jobs that the U.S. has sent overseas over the past couple of decades, and would encourage foriegn firms to locate and build plants in the U.S. thereby eliviating the high unemplyment that the U.S. curently has (and will contin ue to have) It is kind of a moot point at this juncture since the healthcare bill passed, now it is up to the Republicans to win enough seats in November to overturn the bill (unlikely because it would take a 2/3 majority to overturn a presidential veto), or more likely enough seats to ammend the bill substantially along with moderate Democrats

[VegasVic]

There are hardly 16,500 IRS revenue officers in the entire IRS.

P.B., You are a bit off in your calculations for IRS employees, at present their are nearly 90,000 full time IRS workers and another 25,000 part time employees of the IRS

[Jingthing]

Enough with the republican party electioneering, OK? The mods want this to be on topic, about the impact on expats.

[VegasVic]

Maybe some Obama loving American can explain to me why after passing a so called Health Bill the first thing he did was to employ 16,500 extra tax inspectors to check, fine and imprison those who do not pay the new insurance. Extra doctors, nurses or health workers YES but tax inspectors ?

Some health bill !

The same reason they would spend over 3 million dollars to stop people from looking at your birth certificate ?

WHY ?

Surely if there was NO PROBLEM with it you would just show it to them ?

Personally I think you have voted yourselves into office an American Tony B-Liar.

A smooth talking shyster who promised so much but delivered NOTHING!

H20, Relax their pard! There are indeed many provisions of obamacare that are unconstitutional and will be overturned, but the courts may not have a chance to rule on them because when the new Congress gets elected they will likey give this bill a thorough revamping with dozens of ammendments to addres those aspects of the bill that are unconstitutional In addition to ammending obamacare, they will likely add tort reform (which would really lower costs) and agree to the sale of health insurance across state lines (which would increase competitiveness and thereby also lower costs)

[VegasVic]

Enough with the republican party electioneering, OK? The mods want this to be on topic, about the impact on expats.

No electioneering going on here jing, just the facts Right now the impact on the expats will be that they as U.S. citizens will be required to buy health insurance even though they may live all or most of the year overseas, come November with the new Congress this portion of obamacare will be ammended or overturned by the courts, depending on who gets to act on it first This is quite germain to any American expat

[Jingthing]

Enough with the republican party electioneering, OK? The mods want this to be on topic, about the impact on expats.

No electioneering going on here jing, just the facts Right now the impact on the expats will be that they as U.S. citizens will be required to buy health insurance even though they may live all or most of the year overseas, come November with the new Congress this portion of obamacare will be ammended or overturned by the courts, depending on who gets to act on it first This is quite germain to any American expat

Expats are NOT required to buy insurance. No Americans are. Not until 2014. In 2014, bona fide expats STILL will not be required to by the insurance.

You are not stating facts. You are making up stories based on your ideology. You are a totally biased right winger who watches too much Fox News and actually believes it. Any American can see right through you.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

The accusation that Jingthing is a bleeding Marxist is deleted.

[Stonecutter35777]

Already things are changing.

Pepsi came out today and said they are going to reduce sugar/fat/salt in their products.

That alone can save the health system a few billion dollars.

Hopefully the other culprits will follow: Coke, McDonalds, Burger King, etc.+.

It's all about choices we make. Nobody is pulling your jaw down and shoving Pepsi down your gullet at gunpoint......get my drift? If only the Founding Fathers could see us now.......government telling us what healthcare to buy, what cars to buy, what we can and cannot ingest for food, we have to pay our foolish neighbors mortgage. Taxed on our income, taxed when we buy a television, taxed on the electricity we use to power the television, and if you live in liberal California you also pay a tax for the pleasure of using more electricty than a "normal" television.......electricity which you have already paid tax on as well. It seems that some of the expats on this forum have been away from the USA for a bit too long because they are totally out of touch with the average American. There is a seething pressure cooker of frustration building up in America right now because the good people that pay extra for the good insurance, keep themselves financially sound, and are self reliant are watching as Obama is taking away their tax money to bail out irresponsible companies and individuals that should be left to reap what they have sown. Watch in November mid-terms to see a confirmation of this. If the election of a Republican in extremely liberal Massachusetts wasn't a sign then I don't know what is.

[H2oDunc]

Here is something else for US expats to worry about. Obama not only wants to make you pay for health care you do not want he also now controls ALL money leaving the USA or being transferred from an overseas account held by a US citizen. Overseas banks are now forced to withhold 30% of any transactions or close the account.

Full article here

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/its-offic...apital-controls

USA! no longer the home of the free!

Also this from the US paper about the extra tax inspectors. Not told in any bar just I don't believe everything they tell me like some sheeple

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/...e-88458137.html

Edited April 4, 2010 by H2oDunc

[Jingthing]

The accusation that Jingthing is a bleeding Marxist is deleted.

You're a pistol, PB, you're a pistol. If I was a mod and someone mentioned your Mama's oldest profession I would be sure to delete it as well, and then mention publicly the slur I deleted.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Overseas banks are now forced to withhold 30% of any transactions or close the account.

This very important subject has its own thread -- here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3455608

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[connda]

Already things are changing.

Pepsi came out today and said they are going to reduce sugar/fat/salt in their products.

That alone can save the health system a few billion dollars.

Hopefully the other culprits will follow: Coke, McDonalds, Burger King, etc.+.

It's all about choices we make. Nobody is pulling your jaw down and shoving Pepsi down your gullet at gunpoint......get my drift? If only the Founding Fathers could see us now.......government telling us what healthcare to buy, what cars to buy, what we can and cannot ingest for food, we have to pay our foolish neighbors mortgage. Taxed on our income, taxed when we buy a television, taxed on the electricity we use to power the television, and if you live in liberal California you also pay a tax for the pleasure of using more electricty than a "normal" television.......electricity which you have already paid tax on as well. It seems that some of the expats on this forum have been away from the USA for a bit too long because they are totally out of touch with the average American. There is a seething pressure cooker of frustration building up in America right now because the good people that pay extra for the good insurance, keep themselves financially sound, and are self reliant are watching as Obama is taking away their tax money to bail out irresponsible companies and individuals that should be left to reap what they have sown. Watch in November mid-terms to see a confirmation of this. If the election of a Republican in extremely liberal Massachusetts wasn't a sign then I don't know what is.

Right on Stonecutter. We sure don't need the government to tell us how to manage our lifes. The problem is that most politicians want power: Democrats or Republicans. And what fun is having power if you can't wield it over someone's head. If anyone really wants the US to head back in the direction of a limited-government, Constitutional Republic, than the American people are going to have to elect third-party independents into office who will actually try to bring some sanity back into government. But I also think that most Americans are too fat, dumb, and happy. The majority are going to remain in their blissful ignorance as long as they can maintain some semblance of their credit-crazed past lifestyles.

Massachusetts? I don't know. A Republican got elected, but really, what's gonna change? I expect to see a lot of changes in the mid-term elections -- Republicans filling Democratic seats. But when the dust settles ain't nothing gonna really change...do you think. Just more Big Government finding ways to control the average guy on the street.

Ultimately, I just want to be left alone to retire in peace over here in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Massachusetts already had a state health care plan (REQUIRING insurance) that is remarkably similar to the Obama bill. Senator Brown SUPPORTS the Massachusetts plan. So does republican Mitt Romney who is clearly running for president. Bottom line, if you think Massachusetts politics really mean anything on the national level, you don't know Massachusetts.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Deke]

Back to the original topic; will there soon be some low-cost insurance that I can buy from an American carrier that will be a better option than my current self-insured status? Will it give me benefits outside the US?

Edit: added second question.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Deke

[Jingthing]

Back to the original topic; will there soon be some low-cost insurance that I can buy from an American carrier that will be a better option than my current self-insured status? Will it give me benefits outside the US?

Edit: added second question.

Not exactly. In 2014 (NOT NOW) there will be subsidies depending on your income. If you are very poor, you will be put on "free" medicaid (if under 65). Premiums will likely continue to go up, Obama plan or no Obama plan. The only realistic way there was to control costs was a Canadian universal government system, but socialist-phobic right winger Amercans were never interested in a real solution for BOTH cost and access. By caving to the private health insurance companies and big pharma, there is very little in cost controls in the current plan. There is some, which will hopefully decrease the outrageous rate of increase. I can't answer the benefits outside the US question; my impression is that US policies usually don't, that's why people buy travel insurance.

[Spee]

It is about increasing health care access equality.

This is patently false. This has been and is the propaganda message.

Here are the facts:

- There is nothing in the bill about tort & medical malpractice reform, which is the by far and away the primary reason for increasing health care costs.

- The bill is unconstitutional. There is nothing in the enumerated powers of the Constitution that authorizes the Congress or the Executive branch to force citizens to purchase one specific product or another.

- The bill does essentially nothing until after the 2012 election. The years leading up to it are for the purpose of building up the enforcement bureacracy.

- If allowed to stand the bill will go the way of all major federal action, which is to follow the law of unintended consequences. When something is "free," demand ALWAYS ALWAYS increases substantially. By promising to grant "equal access to healthcare for all," the government will end up rationing, particularly to the elderly and infirmed, as has happened in every other country that has tried it.

Opinion:

- Expats will be one of the first groups to take it up the backside. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. The Congress is already doing everything they can to raise taxes. One of those tax increases is likely to be the expat tax exemption. Out of sight, out of mind, as far as the Congress is concerned.

- The Dems will lose both houses in November. The bill will either be overturned or will die a quick death by lack of funding and Barry will become a 2 year lame duck and continue on his trek to become the worst President in US history.

BkkMD had it exactly spot on in his (or her) earlier post.

Edit:

PS. Close relative is a retired physician who cared for many thousands of public aid patients. Was never challenged for malpractice so much as a single, yet final year malpractice insurance was well into six figures (USD) because of the out of control "trip and fall" lawyer brigade. For public aid patients, it was nowhere close to a break even proposition, as the government always reimbursed less that basic overhead costs. Forty plus years of stories about government involvement in healthcare.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Spee

[Jingthing]

Oy vey, what a crock! There is ALREADY rationing! The hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died prematurely over the years (according to the AMA) due to lack of access to health care were rationed, they had no decent access. Tort reform? That old canard. Total propaganda. Many objective sources saying that is a TINY portion of the total costs. BTW, I support tort reform but right wingers who parade that as a panacea for cost and access are 100 percent wrong.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Spee]

Last post because there is no point in engaging in debate with you.

There is ALREADY rationing!

In private industry? Sources?

Maybe the VA, Medicare and Medicaid, but what else would one expect from a government bureacracy? The worst is yet to come.

The hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died prematurely over the years (according to the AMA) due to lack of access to health care were rationed, they had no decent access.

Sources? Access is absolute steer manure. In practically every state in the US there are existing laws which prohibit denial of care. In the state of Maryland for example, ANY PERSON .... citizen, illegal, working, unemployed, whatever .... can walk into any hospital in the state, demand care, and receive it with no requirements for ability to pay.

Edit.

PS. When it comes to the AMA, membership of quality, qualified physicians has been dropping like a rock for years. What does that say about the AMA? Enough said.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Spee

[Jingthing]

Last post? Fine. I am not interested in arguing with you over the bill, because the bill is now law, the vast majority of our government (including the AMA) agreed with me that lack of access was killing people, and they made this new LAW. Now we can talk about the LAW. Right wingers like you will never change. The rest of us must move on and deal with reality. The time for DEBATE over the issues that created the move towards the reform law is OVER. My side won that debate. The law is far from perfect, but that is where we are at NOW. Also, if you think you have a prayer to repeal this new law, which is at least a step in the right direction, you must believe in miracles.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Spee]

the vast majority of our government

Oh .... puh - lease ... give me a <deleted>' break. The Congressional votes ware straight down party lines, by the thinnest of majority vote and the majority of American PEOPLE ..... not GOVERNMENT ...... reject the bill and don't want it.

You as an expat should be concerned because you're going to be one of the ones who end up with the shitty end of the stick. Elderly expats are going to get a double whammy and should expect to be first in line on the chopping block when rationing kicks in or when government bureaucrats say that you have to be living in country to be eligible for health care. (Edit. Well, an in country requirement is one form of rationing, isn't it?)

Edited April 4, 2010 by Spee

[Jingthing]

I thought you said you were going to shut up? Does "last post" mean something different in right wing English?

Anyway, expats already were not eligible for Medicare. Still not eligible. Nothing has changed. The total impact on expats is practically non-existent. Higher taxes for very wealthy people including expat? You betcha!

Lets keep this about expats please and not fall to the level of the rabidly obsessed Spee's in the world, basically SORE LOSERS.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[ukrules]

The bill absolutely sucks for physicians in the United States though.

Looks like plumbers are going to be making more than primary care physicians.

dam_n, should've gone to plumbing school instead..

Of course the Doctors are very much overpaid in the first place. They are paid much more than they are worth.

[Spee]

The bill absolutely sucks for physicians in the United States though.

Looks like plumbers are going to be making more than primary care physicians.

dam_n, should've gone to plumbing school instead..

Of course the Doctors are very much overpaid in the first place. They are paid much more than they are worth.

You have every right to your own wrong opinion, but it's interesting that you say nothing about the "trip and fall" lawyers who would sue a doctor for permanent disfigurement and tens of thousands of dollars if a single suture was so much as a micron out of position.

The government has no place in setting wage and price controls in a free society. In a free society, the individual's right to property is is first and foremost above anything else. Included in property is the right to the fruit's of one's labor. If you think you are being overcharged by one doctor or another, or another service or commodity provider for that matter, then you should have every right to choose another one.

However, when a government takes control of a country's healthcare system, you have to go see the doctor it tells you to see, regardless if the doctor is incompetent, unqualified, dangerous, or simply that you don't like them. And you will pay far more through the tax system than you every would through any other method. I had a NHS number and paid exhorbitant UK taxes for a long time. It's the quinessential case study for how fecked up the system becomes.

Again, once the government makes something "free," demand goes through the roof, the government bureacracy and budget is swiftly engulfed by it, and the only way to make ends meet is to reduce service, meaning rationing in all of its evil and unethical forms. It is an UNDENIABLE FACT that this has happened in each and every country where this course has been chosen.

For one, I am confident that the American people have had enough of the crapola of the current leadership and will be throwing them out on their collective <deleted> in very short order, and reversing or refusing to fund this horrendous piece of legislation.

(still waiting for uknowwho to get a grip on reality and post some sources or to explain where higher taxes {aka government-sanctioned theft of personal property for redistribution for purposes of political gain} has ever been a solution to anything)

[Spee]

shut up?

So symbolic. Just like the current Congress and Executive who told the majority of the American people to shut up and let a piece of miserable, unwanted legislation being thrust upon them.

Be nice to people you meet on the way up, because you're certainly going to meet them again on the way down. The current leadership could have learned something from Jimmy Durante.

[samran]

The bill absolutely sucks for physicians in the United States though.

Looks like plumbers are going to be making more than primary care physicians.

dam_n, should've gone to plumbing school instead..

Of course the Doctors are very much overpaid in the first place. They are paid much more than they are worth.

That is very true. Doctors and hospitals are monopoly providers and can charge what they want. They meet every definition of a monopoly. High barriers to entry, low competition, lack of free information available to consumers about the products they are about to consume etc etc.

Orthodox economics states you regulate pricing in a monopoly situation based on some sort of cost plus formula. Works in utlilities, and doctors in most other parts of the world still seem to be in the 1% of top income earners and still have the nice cars and houses.

Doctors will always claim otherwise of course.

The AMA in the US are one of the country's largests UNIONS. They look after themselves.

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's focus on the effect this bill has on expatriates - none.