Fabric M / C Jackets, Level 3 Protection

[GungaDin]

Which jacket should I buy with "Level 3 Protection"?

Colour is not important.

From this site Under $120

Keep in mind how hot & humid it is here.

I can't find an explanation of this "Level 3 Protection" jazz, but it sounds good.....

[seedy]

My take on all this ...

Elbow protection would be a good idea - as would shoulder - only in a low speed 'Off'. Any higher speed - and I mean above about 10 mph - you might not break your elbow, but the arm above and/or below the padding. I am leaning more and more to some sort of abrasion protection, to keep my hide on while sliding down the road. On a race track, different story. Usually you have a large area to slide, with no obstacles like parked cars, curbs, etc to hit.

Draggin' Jeans makes a Kevlar shirt for abrasion protection, and I just might go down this route. They also have them to go under jeans, and as they are a mesh fabric, should allow good airflow.

I have been riding since 1968 on the road, have had many accidents, and can not think of one where I would have suffered less if I had armor on. And I have completely destroyed helmets. But, this is just my tale. S--t happens.

[Dave the Dude]

The site you quoted says this about the protection...

(New Level Of Protection by Level-3 Armor , Lighter Weight, Less Bulky, Level-3 Armor provides Highest CE Approved Protection, Ergonomic Design, Higher Impact Absorption, Free Movement)

That info was on a different page that suggests they don't ship to Thailand, which is a shame as it looks like they have some good stuff.

[GungaDin]

The site you quoted says this about the protection...

(New Level Of Protection by Level-3 Armor , Lighter Weight, Less Bulky, Level-3 Armour provides Highest CE Approved Protection, Ergonomic Design, Higher Impact Absorption, Free Movement)

Thanks "Flasher".......

Which jacket would you choose?

I'm looking hard at this one.

Hoping it has velcro cuffs and not knitted ones which a few customers complained about.

--------

G'day Seedy, I started out in 67, we'll have to compare war stories one day.

Thanks for the link to Draggin Jeans, good stuff!

Esp. the hip pads, we old buggers have brittle bones now.

[GungaDin]

edited;

That info was on a different page that suggests they don't ship to Thailand, which is a shame as it looks like they have some good stuff.

I'll have it sent to shipito.com for re mailing to Thailand.

edit

Further digging came up with this info on Level 3 by Atom Armour.

[submaniac]

Well there is this here Joe Rocket mesh jacket in the classifieds for 2,000 baht: Buy this jacket!!!!!! You can ask Arctic and Netfan/Gus on how they like it. I can attest that it does a good job of ventilating you with it on in Thailand.

As to the level 3, I think it is more hype than reality. There is no 'government' rated 'levels' for motorcycle armor. The only officially certification is CE rated armor (European Union). Pretty much armor is either CE rated or it is not. I know netfan added hard armor to his jacket, but I do not know how much it would help as the Joe Rocket is also CE rated armor.

[seedy]

Hi GungaDin. Would like to swap stories.

My best - well, I blew a front tire, drove off a cliff, and hit a building between two second story windows ...

More when we meet

[Dave the Dude]

The site you quoted says this about the protection...

(New Level Of Protection by Level-3 Armor , Lighter Weight, Less Bulky, Level-3 Armour provides Highest CE Approved Protection, Ergonomic Design, Higher Impact Absorption, Free Movement)

Thanks "Flasher".......

Which jacket would you choose?

Hi G/Din

Thats a nice jacket at a crazy cheap price. I like it

I too, am on the lookout for a armoured mesh jacket(Black/Red) but the Red brigade, I think have kiboshed my plans for a BKK trip this weekend . Mocycshop was to be my first port of call, but not sure now.

I'm a little concerned about sizing when buying mail-order, but hope you get what you want

Dave

[ScubaBuddha]

Any protection is a bonus. Get the jacket which you think will be the least hot, as this will be the jacket you are likely to wear most often.

[GungaDin]

submaniac

Well there is this here Joe Rocket mesh jacket in the classifieds for 2,000 baht: Buy this jacket!!!!!!

G'day Sub.

Broken link, what was it?

US URL?

"As to the level 3, I think it is more hype than reality" Agreed.

--------

Seedy

My best - well, I blew a front tire, drove off a cliff, and hit a building between two second story windows ...

I won't tap you for luck!

I kept forgetting to put the side-stand down outside the Pony Express burger joint, late on Friday nites, after a skin-full, (1979/80)

consequently, had to call out the customers to lift the XS1100 off my leg.

More than once, I'm ashamed to say.

No damage done, except to my pride....

-------

Dave

I'm a little concerned about sizing when buying mail-order, but hope you get what you want smile.gif

Me too, I'm ordering 2 sizes up than listed, better to have a jacket oversize than unwearable.

--------------

ScubaBuddha

Hi.

That's the problem!

Having been out of riding for 30+ years, I'm not familiar with all the new gear (& terms).

You guys know what's what nowadays, I have a lot of catching up to do.

and more questions.

I haven't a clue which jacket would be coolest, that's why I'm glad there are Septic riders here.

Cheers

[billd766]

I bought a Komine mesh jacket with elbow and shoulder protection in the Paddock shop on Ratchadaphisek road in BKK last year for 4,800 THB I think.

It does work to cool me down and now looks better after I chucked it into the washing machine yesterday.

Here is a url for them and several people do speak English there as well.

http://www.paddock.co.th/osc/index.php?lan...f9a2e885042184b

[GungaDin]

Thanks Bill.

Which one was it? Komine jackets.

[MartinL]

Have a loook at what Hood Jeans have to offer.

http://www.hoodjeans.co.uk

I've had their stuff in the past & it's superb as is their customer service.

[patcat]

Have a loook at what Hood Jeans have to offer.

http://www.hoodjeans.co.uk

I've had their stuff in the past & it's superb as is their customer service.

Hi MartinL,

Thanks for this website ...this Jeans look great. I prefer to have clothing for riding where i can also walk in a shop without people looking at me as if i am "ultraman"

And they ship worldwide too .

patcat

[GungaDin]

Nice stuff Martin.

A pity they don't do a cargo style, I find jeans too hot or tight.

I do need a pair of baggy, cotton Kaks with hip protectors.

Thanks for the link, some good info & links have turned up from you guys.

[patcat]

Nice stuff Martin.

A pity they don't do a cargo style, I find jeans too hot or tight.

I do need a pair of baggy, cotton Kaks with hip protectors.

Thanks for the link, some good info & links have turned up from you guys.

Actually i have bought my tourmaster meshpants on ebay the shop was called "riders direct" (us based)and i have to say this is a good dealer, decent price ,fast & fairpriced shipping & swift responses .

patcat

[GungaDin]

Hi Pat

Are they loose fitting / baggy?

Site found.

http://stores.ebay.com/Riders-Direct

[patcat]

Hi Pat

Are they loose fitting / baggy?

Site found.

http://stores.ebay.com/Riders-Direct

i got same like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-TOURMAS...lQ5fMerchandise

they are quite loose too...not tight. And nice and cool too.

patcat

Don't forget to use the "make an offer" i bought 2 items and they dropped quite nicely.

[Dave the Dude]

This is were i was looking in BKK...

http://www.mocyc.com/store/view.php?idclassified=182614

[billd766]

Thanks Bill.

Which one was it? Komine jackets.

I can't see it there but it may have been an end of the line item.

I also went into MBK and on the ground floor a delightful katoey sold me 2 pairs of no name jeans at 600 baht each.

When I got home I got the village tailor to cut 6 inches of the bottom of the jeans so now they don't look so bad.

Saying that I went on a diet on Sunday and have lost over 6kg by this morning.

[patcat]

Have a loook at what Hood Jeans have to offer.

http://www.hoodjeans.co.uk

I've had their stuff in the past & it's superb as is their customer service.

I have a question ...do you think that these jeans maybe too hot for here? I really like them but am a bit worried about the heatfactor really. Also, did you have them with armour? I assume all the pics of the jeans & lacket was done without the armour ...that would make them look all different again, i am guessing.

patcat

[GungaDin]

Patcat.

That's what concerned me too.

Ok for the EU, but not for Thailand.

For me, baggy means cool.

[patcat]

For me, baggy means cool.

yes,you are right but baggy on higher speed is not that great with the wind.

I think the tourmaster will do you fine...it is not too baggy but wide enough to remain cool and not to have to much wind-movements.

I still looking into getting myself a pair of those jeans...when i have them i can come back and tell if they are too hot or not...maybe martinL want to comment on it too.

happy trails,

patcat

[MartinL]

OK folks, some feedback on my experience with Hood jeans.

The jeans I had were the K7 heavy duty lined jeans. They were not a "skinny" fit, more of a comfort fit but not baggy, I guess and with clearance for bike boots underneath.

Very thick material, pockets also of a very strong fabric so they don't wear-through after a few weeks of having keys/coins/tools in them. Washable in the same way as any other denims but take longer to dry because of the lining. The back of the jeans is cut higher than the front so that, if in a crouched riding position, you don't get a gap between jeans & shirt. The Kevlar lining material was also quite thick, comparable to a teatowel, I'd say but less flexible. This lack of flexibility made them a bit more cumbersome to wear than ordinary jeans but far more flexible than leathers. Because it's stitched into all seams, the lining doesn't ride up in use.

Although I've not seen them, I think the "Army" jeans are lighter weight while retaining the same level of Kevlar lining. But Hood will tell you the answer on that one. They reply to e-mails within 24 hours usually, except weekends. These are the ones I'm looking to buy now, for use in Thailand.

I used to work in an engineering design office where leathers would have been unacceptable - even though 2 directors were bikers - but I wore these jeans to ride to work & in the office too. So they're quite presentable & not uncomfortable to wear all day.

I must admit, they got a bit warm in hot weather but were still cooler than leathers. But the bike I had at the time - Triumph 675 Daytona - was very warm around the legs even in cold weather so this tended to emphasise the problem. I wore them in the hottest of UK weather but that doesn't begin to compare to the 40C we had here in KK yesterday!! In those conditions, I think anything would be unbearable. Maybe because of the rearset footrests on the Triumph, I never had any trouble with balooning at high speeds.

Hip armour made almost no difference to the appearance of the jeans but knee armour affected flexibility & was uncomfortable. I never used the knee armour after the first few outings. I think I'd buy without armour next time round.

I can't really comment on the jacket as it's been added to their product line-up since I bought my jeans. But I think I'd not buy the armour.

Draggin' Jeans have been mentioned on this thread somewhere. Before buying Hood, I compared the two brands and it was obvious that the level of Kevlar protection offered by Hood was, at that time, far superior.

Hope this is useful.

[GungaDin]

For me, baggy means cool.

yes,you are right but baggy on higher speed is not that great with the wind.

I think the tourmaster will do you fine...it is not too baggy but wide enough to remain cool and not to have to much wind-movements.

I still looking into getting myself a pair of those jeans...when i have them i can come back and tell if they are too hot or not...maybe martinL want to comment on it too.

happy trails,

patcat

I should have qualified my post with,

"I'm a beginner with Automatic Scooters, I don't go over 30mph, in fact, I drive on eggshells."

"Baggies in the breeze, no worries."

[patcat]

OK folks, some feedback on my experience with Hood jeans.

The jeans I had were the K7 heavy duty lined jeans. They were not a "skinny" fit, more of a comfort fit but not baggy, I guess and with clearance for bike boots underneath.

Very thick material, pockets also of a very strong fabric so they don't wear-through after a few weeks of having keys/coins/tools in them. Washable in the same way as any other denims but take longer to dry because of the lining. The back of the jeans is cut higher than the front so that, if in a crouched riding position, you don't get a gap between jeans & shirt. The Kevlar lining material was also quite thick, comparable to a teatowel, I'd say but less flexible. This lack of flexibility made them a bit more cumbersome to wear than ordinary jeans but far more flexible than leathers. Because it's stitched into all seams, the lining doesn't ride up in use.

Although I've not seen them, I think the "Army" jeans are lighter weight while retaining the same level of Kevlar lining. But Hood will tell you the answer on that one. They reply to e-mails within 24 hours usually, except weekends. These are the ones I'm looking to buy now, for use in Thailand.

I used to work in an engineering design office where leathers would have been unacceptable - even though 2 directors were bikers - but I wore these jeans to ride to work & in the office too. So they're quite presentable & not uncomfortable to wear all day.

I must admit, they got a bit warm in hot weather but were still cooler than leathers. But the bike I had at the time - Triumph 675 Daytona - was very warm around the legs even in cold weather so this tended to emphasise the problem. I wore them in the hottest of UK weather but that doesn't begin to compare to the 40C we had here in KK yesterday!! In those conditions, I think anything would be unbearable. Maybe because of the rearset footrests on the Triumph, I never had any trouble with balooning at high speeds.

Hip armour made almost no difference to the appearance of the jeans but knee armour affected flexibility & was uncomfortable. I never used the knee armour after the first few outings. I think I'd buy without armour next time round.

I can't really comment on the jacket as it's been added to their product line-up since I bought my jeans. But I think I'd not buy the armour.

Draggin' Jeans have been mentioned on this thread somewhere. Before buying Hood, I compared the two brands and it was obvious that the level of Kevlar protection offered by Hood was, at that time, far superior.

Hope this is useful.

Thank you for all the great info. highly appreciated...i think the K7 jeans i will go for too and mostlikely without the armour. For the jacket i am still undecided ,

patcat

[ttakata]

I have the 1st generation Joe Rocket Phoenix jacket and pants.

I bought in 2001 and used them for bigbikes and pocketbike racing back in the US.

I probably crashed 10 times at 30kph and later used them for paintball, jumping through bushes and rolling over gravel.

So the big mesh and padding works well for low speed crashes, I never tested a high speed crash.

Riding in hot but dry LA was OK, but they're just too hot for Bangkok's Summer.

When you're actually moving, they're not bad at all, but when you stop at a light or walk around in them it gets hot.

If you're a person that can wear jeans in BKK, then you'll probably find the mesh clothing tolerable.

I don't even like wearing pants here; so I decided to cut out the interior linings and remove the padding so essentially I have rip proof clothes.

If I crash, I'll break bones, but my skin will be intact.

This is the best solution I've come up with.

Bike jeans are better than nothing, but I'm sure mesh pants will last longer and breathe better

I'm a big advocate of safe riding but I also don't want a heatstroke.

I say get the best gear that you'll really wear.

My friend got a Kushitani mesh and its too hot, he never wears it.

I'm going to research rock climbing clothes, I think they may make a good alternative to shorts and a t-shirt.

Sadly it may be too hot for me to wear a padded jacket most days in BKK.

FYI, CE armor levels do have differences, its not marketing BS.

I pulled this from another forum.

CE testing in Europe is mandatory for impact protectors, however, it is also required for any motorcyclist clothing claiming or marketing protective qualities. In other words, if a company claims their product is built for protective purposes, it must be backed-up with the independent testing proof of the CE standards. For example, manufacturers can market armor as "impact protectors" only if the pieces meet the requirements or simply "padding" if it is not intended to provide a safety advantage.

Other types of materials that are usually NOT CE approved are viscoelastic/"temperfoam"(memory foam, open-cell foam) pads, "dual-density" plastic(EVA, closed-cell) foams, and various hard plastic pieces and sandwiched-plastics.

Soft or hard doesn't differentiate performance levels. However, if you look at the construction of most CE approved armor you will find that the highest performing products are SOFT foams(Astrene/Astrosorb 8mm). At less than a centimeter thick, they may even seem flimsy. but these pieces fall in to the "extreme performance" category for CE impact energy absorption.

There are CE standards that cover each part of the body and each category of protective qualities associated with motorcyclist clothing. These include abrasion resistance, tear strength, impact protection, and seam strength. There are standards covering motorcyclist's suits, jackets, pants, and impact protectors("armor"), as well as gloves and footwear.

There are 2 standards that cover motorcyclist impact protectors. One for limb/joint pieces and the another for back protectors. Each provides various levels of performance based on energy absorption/force transmission.

The CE LIMB/JOINT PROTECTOR standard is labeled EN1621-1.

It allows joint/limb armor to transmit no more than 35kN of force.

Ratings are based on performance at an impact energy of 50, 75, or 100 joules creating three levels of performance within this standard.

LEVEL 1, BASIC--50 joules

LEVEL 2, HIGH PERFORMANCE--75 joules

LEVEL 3, EXTREME PERFROMANCE--100 joules

The CE BACK PROTECTOR standard is labeled EN1621-2. The test is performed with a 5kg "kerbstone" dropped from one meter to create the test impact energy of 50 Joules. The standard contains two levels of force transmission performance, using the same impact energy.

18kN@50J passes LEVEL 1 compliance.

9kN@50J passes LEVEL 2 or "high performance" compliance.

The fact that CE approved armor is tested and proven is the most important point. No other forms of so-called "armor" make claims of protection and/or provide credible evidence of performance. If a company is not willing to show performance results, we shouldn't be buying their products when other, actual certified products exist.

Here's some additional sources of info on proper impact protectors and CE testing:

http://www.bmf.co.uk/briefing/BMF-Briefing-PPE.html

www.ixion.org.uk/Leather2.html

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcblip/prd-tpro.txt

http://www.bksleather.co.uk/techno.htm

http://www.erbo.de/en/etouring/index.html

http://www.planet-knox.com/Knox/index.asp