Trying To Bargain Behind The Scenes : Thaksin

[hammered]

What to bargain? Just give him back the 76 billion. Case close.

That would just bring a different million protestors out (except really a million).

Interesting thing is the dem shave never ever called their people onto the streets. When in power the TRT did and got a few hundred thousand. Few would doubt the dems could bring at least 500K onto the streets if they wanted and force all the others to go home. Even from the south alone they could do this and i probably underestimate. However credit to them for not doing this daft approach.

[bendejo]

Now that i think of leaflets , with the red shirts well on their way to stay another month or two , time to drop some of those , advertising cheap rooms to rent .

Business is business

I passed by the encampment a few days ago (on a bus). Noticed the nearby vendors were stocking up on bottled water big time.

Business is good.

[Thai at Heart]

I agree with much of your comment, however I think PM Abhisit and K. Korn have a better than 50% chance of bringing deep reform and change.

I suspect they will ultimately (hopefully quickly) attract some highly capable and sincere people to join them and in doing so generate a whole new and better era in Thai politics and a new benchmark of parties and politicians.

However it concerns me that PM Abhisit is too slow to beat them at their own game; introduce some strong quick acting reforms that do have quick and long-term impact on giving the rural poor better opportunities in life, so that they can take care of themselves and to have a better quality of life.

But I emphasise structural reform, which has permanent impact

Not hand-outs, which ultimately makes no progress, and would be criticised by the red shirts as just copying thaksin, validating thaksins 'policies'.

Forget massive structural reform, a simple review of the contracting and supply system of all the major agricultural commodities would shift more of the risk to the purchasers and processors that the gross inequities in the markets could be removed.

Korn and Abhisit can carry out structural reform after they impose serious rules and regulations on the conduct of the major purchasers of the agricultural commodities in the country to firstly:

a. Prevent cartel action

b. Impose fair minimum pricing on the market

c. Prevent the purchasers and processers from passing risk onto the government

There is no real need for a massive structural review of these markets to provide equitable and fair pricing to farmers and prevent the government from having to bail out the market year after year. Between farmer and export there is effectively monopoly control by the "middle man" and is there any surprise that they make handsome monopoly profits every year without having to be concerned that the market turns against them.

If you want to be an agricultural exporter, it should not be as simple as screwing the little guy to the floor and waiting for the government to hold your hand when the global market goes against you.

[ding]

They will never denounce him. He is their Achilles heel. They can't win with him and they can't function without him. Like the article said, without Thaksin worship, there would be no crowds. Again, it really is almost all about Thaksin and his money, jail problems, and face. The best they can do is push him a little bit to the back. Will that be enough for them to be a morally credible movement? I say no, it is not enough.

A cult of personality coupled with Mr T's funding of this astro-turf phony grass roots movement is the only reason Thailand can't function and progress in peace. Mr T has no interest in peace for Thailand, democracy, or power to little people. He cares about his money and power only.

History shows this tactic over and over, yet seemingly smart people choose to ignore this.

[gregb]

They will never denounce him. He is their Achilles heel. They can't win with him and they can't function without him. Like the article said, without Thaksin worship, there would be no crowds. Again, it really is almost all about Thaksin and his money, jail problems, and face. The best they can do is push him a little bit to the back. Will that be enough for them to be a morally credible movement? I say no, it is not enough.

A cult of personality coupled with Mr T's funding of this astro-turf phony grass roots movement is the only reason Thailand can't function and progress in peace. Mr T has no interest in peace for Thailand, democracy, or power to little people. He cares about his money and power only.

History shows this tactic over and over, yet seemingly smart people choose to ignore this.

I think any intelligent person knows exactly what Thaksin stands for, and it isn't them. I'm surprised that so many posters on this forum try and justify his completely hypocritical nonsense. Assuming they aren't getting paid, I'll leave it to you readers to complete the syllogism.

Thaksin can bargain behind the scenes all he wants, but unless he publically admits he was wrong, and the red shirts publically denounce him, it all means nothing. Thaksin has proven that he can not be trusted. The only solution is to humiliate him to the point he has no authority to do anything, or eliminate him altogether. Either way is fine with me.

Personally, I would return all his money if I could be sure he would go off to a small corner of the world and die without inflicting anymore harm on Thailand than he already has. Sadly, he is not smart enough to do this, and I wouldn't believe him even if he said he would. I still think only a civil war is the only thing that will cleanse us of his incarnate evil once and for all.

[wayfarer108]

I was listening to a red radio broadcast tonight during a long taxi ride in Bangkok. I didn't catch who the orator was but he was speaking in the most animalistic tone of voice, full of hate and kilesa. He was declaring war on the government, and kept saying the only way to make Thailand right was to dissolve the national assembly and bring back Thaksin. He went on this rant for nearly an hour, never once mentioning a single principle of democracy, elections, etc. The gist of the hoarse rant was, bring back Thaksin, dump the Democrats and screw all elections. Over and over again he was identifying the movement's red colour with their willingness to spill blood in Thaksin's name. He was followed by a second speaker who went over exactly the same points. It reminded me so much of movie clips of the Nuremberg rallies, just an animal chant for hours on end, meant to stun listeners into a passive acceptance.

I don't see any de-Thaksinisation so far.

[anotherpeter]

I was listening to a red radio broadcast tonight during a long taxi ride in Bangkok. I didn't catch who the orator was but he was speaking in the most animalistic tone of voice, full of hate and kilesa. He was declaring war on the government, and kept saying the only way to make Thailand right was to dissolve the national assembly and bring back Thaksin. He went on this rant for nearly an hour, never once mentioning a single principle of democracy, elections, etc. The gist of the hoarse rant was, bring back Thaksin, dump the Democrats and screw all elections. Over and over again he was identifying the movement's red colour with their willingness to spill blood in Thaksin's name. He was followed by a second speaker who went over exactly the same points. It reminded me so much of movie clips of the Nuremberg rallies, just an animal chant for hours on end, meant to stun listeners into a passive acceptance.

I don't see any de-Thaksinisation so far.

In the red media they want to keep it about Thaksin, because that's what all the red supporters believe in.

In the general media they are trying to separate themselves from Thaksin, because that's why others don't support the reds.

But even in interviews with anti-red media, they say they want to get into government to correct things - which basically means, to give Thaksin back his money he made while he was a corrupt PM.

[shawndoc]

5. If there a need for a real democracy movement in Thailand (sincere, knowledgeabale, rational discussion, etc)? YES!

Really, what country has this? I'd move there in a heartbeat if they'd have me.

If it wasn't for the mention of Thailand and red shirts, I would have thought most of the bullets were aimed at the United States.

[rametindallas]

I think we have all experienced a trait here where no one can ever admit that they were wrong. This is damaging the reds, but at least they are beginning to see it. If they can just swallow their inflated pride and egos, and truly cut the strings to Thaksin, things will get better for them.

He needs to be utterly denounced, and the true nature of his his greed and how it has damaged the very people who are suffering for him in the streets, needs to be shown to the people by the red leadership. Then things can progress forward.

If they denounce Dr. Taksin, the money dries up; especially for the leaders. They are in a 'Catch 22' dam_ed if they do and dam_ed if they don't. They need a Ceasar Chavez type to lead them; hel_l, I would donate to that movement.

[bendejo]

If they denounce Dr. Taksin, the money dries up; especially for the leaders. They are in a 'Catch 22' dam_ed if they do and dam_ed if they don't. They need a Ceasar Chavez type to lead them; hel_l, I would donate to that movement.

Well, there's always the "I'm just a poor peasant and lack your diplomatic skills, Khun T, and that's why we screwed up" defense.

At the end of the day the powers that be can attach some conditions regarding return of the remainder of the funds, like they can only be handed over to the fugitive himself. This doesn't mean T won't get his swag, just that it may take a while (like a few changes of government) before it happens.

I wonder what sort of monetary promises the face on the big screen made to his lieutenants.

[yoshiwara]

I was listening to a red radio broadcast tonight during a long taxi ride in Bangkok. I didn't catch who the orator was but he was speaking in the most animalistic tone of voice, full of hate and kilesa. He was declaring war on the government, and kept saying the only way to make Thailand right was to dissolve the national assembly and bring back Thaksin. He went on this rant for nearly an hour, never once mentioning a single principle of democracy, elections, etc. The gist of the hoarse rant was, bring back Thaksin, dump the Democrats and screw all elections. Over and over again he was identifying the movement's red colour with their willingness to spill blood in Thaksin's name. He was followed by a second speaker who went over exactly the same points. It reminded me so much of movie clips of the Nuremberg rallies, just an animal chant for hours on end, meant to stun listeners into a passive acceptance.

I don't see any de-Thaksinisation so far.

In the red media they want to keep it about Thaksin, because that's what all the red supporters believe in.

In the general media they are trying to separate themselves from Thaksin, because that's why others don't support the reds.

But even in interviews with anti-red media, they say they want to get into government to correct things - which basically means, to give Thaksin back his money he made while he was a corrupt PM.

The forum Thaksin apologists of course desperately try to avoid the Thaksin elephant in the room, but fail miserably.

They are in Thaksin's pocket.

Deep.

Very deep.

Edited March 26, 2010 by yoshiwara

[eggomaniac]

How can a campaign for (and funded by) Thaksin pull away from him? Posters of Thaksin have adorned the Phan Fa Bridge, and nine out of 10 protesters would admit that he Is the real reason they are in Bangkok. Yet, he is both an asset and a liability for the rally. Without him there wouldn't be a mass rally in the first place, but because of him the protesters have never been given the credit that some sympathisers believe they deserve.

Correct. This protest is all about Thaksin.

If the reds can negotiate with the government for solutions that make things better for the poor, rather than exoneration for Thaksin, then they will make some progress.

1. Is there a need for real chnage which would really improve the distrubution of wealth across all Thais? YES!

2. Is there a need for real change which would give the lowest income earners (survivors) a lot more real opportunity in life? YES!

3. Are the red shirts a credible change agent? Have they ever put forward anything concrete to really define what needs to change is needed and how it would be measured, or some benchmarks for change? NO!

4. Have any of the red shirt leaders ever spoken at length and in depth about the conceps of democracy, the pillars of democracy etc., etc? NO, NEVER!!!!

5. If there a need for a real democracy movement in Thailand (sincere, knowledgeabale, rational discussion, etc)? YES!

Is it the red shirts? NO, NO, and NO!!!

Are the red shirstnage and how go about

I agree, yes, yes, yes, that the Red shirts, especially tied to Thaksin, don't don't dont' hold the Solution; but does that mean the Yellows do?, NO NO NO' not neither

Edited March 27, 2010 by eggomaniac

[anotherpeter]

How can a campaign for (and funded by) Thaksin pull away from him? Posters of Thaksin have adorned the Phan Fa Bridge, and nine out of 10 protesters would admit that he Is the real reason they are in Bangkok. Yet, he is both an asset and a liability for the rally. Without him there wouldn't be a mass rally in the first place, but because of him the protesters have never been given the credit that some sympathisers believe they deserve.

Correct. This protest is all about Thaksin.

If the reds can negotiate with the government for solutions that make things better for the poor, rather than exoneration for Thaksin, then they will make some progress.

1. Is there a need for real chnage which would really improve the distrubution of wealth across all Thais? YES!

2. Is there a need for real change which would give the lowest income earners (survivors) a lot more real opportunity in life? YES!

3. Are the red shirts a credible change agent? Have they ever put forward anything concrete to really define what needs to change is needed and how it would be measured, or some benchmarks for change? NO!

4. Have any of the red shirt leaders ever spoken at length and in depth about the conceps of democracy, the pillars of democracy etc., etc? NO, NEVER!!!!

5. If there a need for a real democracy movement in Thailand (sincere, knowledgeabale, rational discussion, etc)? YES!

Is it the red shirts? NO, NO, and NO!!!

Are the red shirstnage and how go about

I agree, yes, yes, yes, that the Red shirts, especially tied to Thaksin, don't don't dont' hold the Solution; but does that mean the Yellows do?, NO NO NO' not neither

100% agree. There is a BIG majority that aren't red or yellow.

Edited March 27, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Jingthing]

I was listening to a red radio broadcast tonight during a long taxi ride in Bangkok. I didn't catch who the orator was but he was speaking in the most animalistic tone of voice, full of hate and kilesa. He was declaring war on the government, and kept saying the only way to make Thailand right was to dissolve the national assembly and bring back Thaksin. He went on this rant for nearly an hour, never once mentioning a single principle of democracy, elections, etc. The gist of the hoarse rant was, bring back Thaksin, dump the Democrats and screw all elections. Over and over again he was identifying the movement's red colour with their willingness to spill blood in Thaksin's name. He was followed by a second speaker who went over exactly the same points. It reminded me so much of movie clips of the Nuremberg rallies, just an animal chant for hours on end, meant to stun listeners into a passive acceptance.

I don't see any de-Thaksinisation so far.

Yes and I imagine there were some expats in Germany at the time that supported the brown shirts. Learn from history folks.

[TAWP]

Why even mention the Yellow here? Not one post have proclaimed they are the way to go.

[yoshiwara]

The weekend red demonstrations are the physical side of Thaksin's 'negotiations'.

That is their purpose.

Thaksin's money. Thaksin's power.

He wants it back.

Everything else is for show.

The forum Thaksin apologists would like to pretend otherwise.

But we know.

And they know.

Their game.

[Cayenne]

Thaksin wants to back in power. He doesn't care if he has to step over everyone to do it. The reds have adopted his "your're either with us or against us" mentality so why should they be surprised they are antagonizing many of the neutrals out there?

[wayfarer108]

In the red media they want to keep it about Thaksin, because that's what all the red supporters believe in.

In the general media they are trying to separate themselves from Thaksin, because that's why others don't support the reds.

But even in interviews with anti-red media, they say they want to get into government to correct things - which basically means, to give Thaksin back his money he made while he was a corrupt PM.

That has been my observation, too, monitoring the red media closely for the last few weeks. "Democracy" means depose the Democrats and install Thaksin, whether by force or by election. "Justice" means returning all his money, which, by implication, he will share with those who have supported him.

The trouble is that virtually none of the English-language press corps covering the conflict understand Thai well enough to catch this.

[yoshiwara]

In the red media they want to keep it about Thaksin, because that's what all the red supporters believe in.

In the general media they are trying to separate themselves from Thaksin, because that's why others don't support the reds.

But even in interviews with anti-red media, they say they want to get into government to correct things - which basically means, to give Thaksin back his money he made while he was a corrupt PM.

That has been my observation, too, monitoring the red media closely for the last few weeks. "Democracy" means depose the Democrats and install Thaksin, whether by force or by election. "Justice" means returning all his money, which, by implication, he will share with those who have supported him.

The trouble is that virtually none of the English-language press corps covering the conflict understand Thai well enough to catch this.

As the current events unfold, forum members are becoming more and more aware of the red tactic of presenting different faces to whichever audience they are facing.

Some of the forum red apologists occasionally get excited and lose their concentration and forget which face they are supposed to be presenting.

The face which they have most trouble practising in front of the mirror is the peaceful one.

the mirror keeps cracking (up).

[mazeltov]

[bacchanal]

^ in case you can't imagine why some people might not care for the red shirts