Excellent Article On Red Shirt Demo

[anotherpeter]

Pitty you don't see pics like this in the Thai media.

Looks like 65k to me in fact more.

Notice the red color to the left reaches the horizon.

Actually, the buildings are on the 'horizon'. The reds just go down the road a hundred metres.

And I'd say more like 20-30,000 ... but I don't have time to count them all now.

[monkfish]

Pitty you don't see pics like this in the Thai media.

Looks like 65k to me in fact more.

Notice the red color to the left reaches the horizon.

Actually, the buildings are on the 'horizon'. The reds just go down the road a hundred metres.

And I'd say more like 20-30,000 ... but I don't have time to count them all now.

Naa come on be realistic that street has to be longer than 100 meters!

[monkfish]

Don't forget the photographer didn't capture the whole area either, there are more people to the left and bellow.

[Johpa]

It completely ignores the reason for the demonstration now, how it is financed and what the ultimate goal is.

Reason: This was as soon after Thaksin assets were seized they could get it organized.

That is an overly simplified explanation. Thaksin may be the poster boy and financier of the "reds", but remember that Thaksin was elected because he was willing to throw the poor a few bones from the public coffers and his opponents represented by the "yellows" call that "populist" politics and argue against giving the majority of the population any financial reason to vote for their cause. The "yellows" openly argue for a limited democracy with the poor being under represented in the voting. Look at the photos and listen to Sondhi Limthongkul speech and if you can't see the ethnic undertones then you must be dumb, deaf, and blind.

The "reds" are upset that the man they helped put into office was kicked out in a very undemocratic move. Yes, Thaksin was one corrupt SOB, but the "reds" know that just about every other leader in Bangkok is equally corrupt. That Thaksin did not share his spoils of rule in a socially acceptable manner with his peers is not a major concern of the rural folks as they were never going to get a cut from the Bangkok elite.

Bottom line is that the vote of the "reds" is there for the taking. But the folks financing the "yellows" aren't interested in winning the hearts and minds of the rural poor, on the contrary, they want to keep the rural poor and especially the ethnic Lao (Isaan) and Khon Muang (Northerners) marginalized in the future just as they have been marginalized in the past.

[DP25]

Don't forget the photographer didn't capture the whole area either, there are more people to the left and bellow.

No, there weren't much more, the photographer makes it seem larger than it is. The crowd was dense at Pan Fa intersection but elsewhere it was not. The reds claim of 100k protesters would have required as crowd density of 2 people per square meter along the entire length of Ratdamnoern, from the bridge to Pinklao to the zoo. Not even remotely accurate.

[anotherpeter]

It completely ignores the reason for the demonstration now, how it is financed and what the ultimate goal is.

Reason: This was as soon after Thaksin assets were seized they could get it organized.

That is an overly simplified explanation. Thaksin may be the poster boy and financier of the "reds", but remember that Thaksin was elected because he was willing to throw the poor a few bones from the public coffers and his opponents represented by the "yellows" call that "populist" politics and argue against giving the majority of the population any financial reason to vote for their cause. The "yellows" openly argue for a limited democracy with the poor being under represented in the voting. Look at the photos and listen to Sondhi Limthongkul speech and if you can't see the ethnic undertones then you must be dumb, deaf, and blind.

The "reds" are upset that the man they helped put into office was kicked out in a very undemocratic move. Yes, Thaksin was one corrupt SOB, but the "reds" know that just about every other leader in Bangkok is equally corrupt. That Thaksin did not share his spoils of rule in a socially acceptable manner with his peers is not a major concern of the rural folks as they were never going to get a cut from the Bangkok elite.

Bottom line is that the vote of the "reds" is there for the taking. But the folks financing the "yellows" aren't interested in winning the hearts and minds of the rural poor, on the contrary, they want to keep the rural poor and especially the ethnic Lao (Isaan) and Khon Muang (Northerners) marginalized in the future just as they have been marginalized in the past.

Let's separate the Reds and the Yellows for a minute, since there is a huge majority in between.

IMO, the Yellows suggested their 70% elected/30% appointed proposal because there were a lot of votes in the poorer areas being bought. It's a stupid idea. The whole of Thailand (even the educated in Bangkok) needs to be educated about what their vote is for, and that it shouldn't be bought.

The yellows protested because Thaksin was just TOO corrupt for them. Thaksin had spent too much time OBVIOUSLY lining his own pockets. Corruption is standard at all levels of Thai society. But Thaksin took it too far while he was PM. After the coup, when his party was in government trying to swing things to get Thaksin out of his troubles, the Yellows wouldn't accept it.

But, as you said, Thaksin "threw" a few bones to the rural poor. Most of it was not sustainable. It was to get their short term support so that he could continue to change the laws to his advantage. As a lot of economists have pointed out, Thaksinonmics was more about a stimulus package (similar to what a lot of countries did after the GFC) than about long term improvements.

The poor liked it at the time, and that suited Thaksin, because he only needed their support in the short term. He was also able to use the improvements in the global economy to make people believe that it was what he did that made the Thai economy and prices the poor got for produce look good.

It would have been interesting if Thaksin had stayed around long enough to see if his "populist" policies would have continued successfully. What would have happened if he couldn't continue them for financial reasons.

Overall, his "populist" policies enabled him to make billions of dollars for himself. The rural poor don't see that, because they see that they got more money while he was around, and every politician is corrupt, so what he did is acceptable.

One of the things they don't realise (or forget for some reason) is that the rural "elite" that support Thaksin do so because they have made so much money from Thaksin policies, and have always made money from the rural poor.

The majority in between the reds and yellows is where the money came from to give to the poor. That's why there wasn't an uprising when the 2006 coup happened. A lot of the Bangkok people (office workers who earn a reasonable, but not great salary) who fit in the middle were actually quote happy that Thaksin was gone.

[lovelomsak]

.... They are asking for a simple democratic right (a government that is placed there by the votes of the people. )...

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people. Can't you read? Can't you think for yourself.

THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE VOTES OF THE PEOPLE

TH

Yes we can read and can differenciate between propaganda and reality

[anotherpeter]

.... They are asking for a simple democratic right (a government that is placed there by the votes of the people. )...

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people. Can't you read? Can't you think for yourself.

THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE VOTES OF THE PEOPLE

TH

Yes we can read and can differenciate between propaganda and reality

Most red supporters can't.

[lovelomsak]

.... They are asking for a simple democratic right (a government that is placed there by the votes of the people. )...

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people. Can't you read? Can't you think for yourself.

THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE VOTES OF THE PEOPLE

TH

Yes we can read and can differenciate between propaganda and reality

Most red supporters can't.

I donot know about red supporters but people who understand democracy can

[anotherpeter]

I donot know about red supporters but people who understand democracy can

I suppose I should ask, which part of "the current government was elected" is propaganda? And why?

[lovelomsak]

.... They are asking for a simple democratic right (a government that is placed there by the votes of the people. )...

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people. Can't you read? Can't you think for yourself.

THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE VOTES OF THE PEOPLE

TH

How did you get such big letters I have no idea how you did that? Just glad you didnot put the vulgarities in such large type too

Edited March 27, 2010 by lovelomsak

[lovelomsak]

.... They are asking for a simple democratic right (a government that is placed there by the votes of the people. )...

What the fuc_k is the matter with you people. Can't you read? Can't you think for yourself.

THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE VOTES OF THE PEOPLE

TH

I just had an idea why does the present government not dissolve and form a new party to take over as a the new elected governemnt Then they can stay in power but under a new name. Hows that for thinking for myself?

[scorecard]

Pitty you don't see pics like this in the Thai media.

Looks like 65k to me in fact more.

Notice the red color to the left reaches the horizon.

Wow. 0.1% of the population. And they are there on an all-expenses paid trip to the big mango with some of them getting 3 times the daily wage back home. Impressive indeed.

Agree, wow 0.1% of the population, and most are there because they were paid to be there.

And did you notice that's it's actually three different photographs cleverly placed side by side to give an illusion that's it's one very big mob.

Very tricky. Did jatuporn come up with this idea, just his style.

[cdnvic]

Keep discussion of current news in the appropriate news topics. We don't need them proliferating throughout the forum. They add nothing new except to repeat the same debates that are already going on in news.