Thai PM To Hold Second Round Of Talks With Red Shirts

[webfact]

PAD opposed to government's talk with red shirts

BANGKOK: -- The People's Alliance for Democracy Monday issued a statement to express opposition to the on-going talk between the government and the red-shirt movement.

Suriyasai Katasila, a coordinator of the PAD, read from the PAD's statement saying the group disagreed with any attempt to hold a negotiation just to help one person, referring to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The statement added that the PAD was also opposed to House dissolution and charter amendments to help Thaksin and his associates.

-- The Nation 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Publicus]

PAD opposed to government's talk with red shirts

BANGKOK: -- The People's Alliance for Democracy Monday issued a statement to express opposition to the on-going talk between the government and the red-shirt movement.

Suriyasai Katasila, a coordinator of the PAD, read from the PAD's statement saying the group disagreed with any attempt to hold a negotiation just to help one person, referring to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The statement added that the PAD was also opposed to House dissolution and charter amendments to help Thaksin and his associates.

-- The Nation 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Well, it looks like the PAD would have to be included in the talks. Just don't have any food present unless it's ok to have it all over the walls too.

PAD needn't attend nor be invited, nor would PAD attend talks to which they are opposed so there really isnt any concern. PAD expressing themselves is a welcome development.

[TheOldWolf]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

By the time for the last election i was visiting friends in the northeast. I ask them who they where goin to vote for. Simple they say: We vote for the one that give us the most money!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

This is exactly leading nowhere in terms of "rid the streets of mobs". Quite the opposite i can imagine.

Say Abhisit gives in to the reckless demands of the reds, for Bangkok's sake - to get the mob off the streets he'll agree to the parliament dissolution and new elections. e all know what will follow - no Democrat will ever be able to campaign in "red" areas, there will be flying eggs and fish, if not worse. Those voters who are still undecided will be offered cash or, as that might be watched by someone, being force-fed red propaganda like it happened before (village speaker systems are a might here - "vote PTP or else..!" every hour and you get what you want even without paying for it....) and, finally, PTP will win that election, probably by a small minority or by forming a coalition government.

The very moment the new government lays hands on the constitution or does anything to the effect of Thaksin's beginning re-installation...... Bangkok's streets will be filled with YELLOW mobs! And the cycle starts again.

My *very undemocratic* idea: Let's have a peaceful coup, military grab power for, say, one full government term and during that time use Abhisit as an advisor. Thaksin can join 50/50 as a second advisor once he has completed his jail sentence.

At least with the military in the driver's seat neither red nor yellow have any chance of forcing their side up by mobbing Bangkok so maybe there could, finally, be peace.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Old Man River]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

Quote from above:

"Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "

Where does this come from, can you please share the source. Thanks.

IMHO thanks for asking....I rarely reveal my confidential and reliable sources....I have done it for you tho....this time.

What Thaksin wants is not the issue. It is, at the end of the day, what the military wants and what the coalition parties want and each has their own agendas.

[anotherpeter]

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

Do you mean like the "facts" that you are presenting??

"There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election" ... in the last election the Democrats got a similar number of votes than the PPP. Where do you get "very few people"? Facts???

"On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place." ... buy government MPs?? But you don't believe it is possible to buy votes !!! Facts???

"give them back the Government that they voted for." ... they voted for MPs, as did everyone else in Thailand. Currently the majority of MPs have decided that Abhisit is the PM. FACT.

"I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?" ... Where DID I use such a word? Facts?

"The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling." ... He has the full support of the coaltion partners. That's why he is still PM. Facts?

"For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1." ... The government spreading stories about diseases? Yes ... The *media* reported about a "volunteer" and a journalist with H1N1. No other diseases were mentioned. Was the government spreading stories? Facts?

Edited March 29, 2010 by anotherpeter

[neverdie]

Wow ... congrats Termad you are the first person EVER on any side to say that vote buying doesn't exist! Time to take those blinkers off!

Just when I thought I had read it all.

[anotherpeter]

Hi.

This is exactly leading nowhere in terms of "rid the streets of mobs". Quite the opposite i can imagine.

Say Abhisit gives in to the reckless demands of the reds, for Bangkok's sake - to get the mob off the streets he'll agree to the parliament dissolution and new elections. e all know what will follow - no Democrat will ever be able to campaign in "red" areas, there will be flying eggs and fish, if not worse. Those voters who are still undecided will be offered cash or, as that might be watched by someone, being force-fed red propaganda like it happened before (village speaker systems are a might here - "vote PTP or else..!" every hour and you get what you want even without paying for it....) and, finally, PTP will win that election, probably by a small minority or by forming a coalition government.

The very moment the new government lays hands on the constitution or does anything to the effect of Thaksin's beginning re-installation...... Bangkok's streets will be filled with YELLOW mobs! And the cycle starts again.

My *very undemocratic* idea: Let's have a peaceful coup, military grab power for, say, one full government term and during that time use Abhisit as an advisor. Thaksin can join 50/50 as a second advisor once he has completed his jail sentence.

At least with the military in the driver's seat neither red nor yellow have any chance of forcing their side up by mobbing Bangkok so maybe there could, finally, be peace.

Best regards.....

Thanh

Abhisit has already offered dissolution of the government if they reds agree to 3 points - free campaigning, no vote buying, no interfering with judicial processes.

The reds didn't agree. What sort of democracy do they want?

[Thanh-BKK]

Abhisit has already offered dissolution of the government if they reds agree to 3 points - free campaigning, no vote buying, no interfering with judicial processes.

The reds didn't agree. What sort of democracy do they want?

Hi.

They want the same type of democracy as in the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea". I.e. Thaksin as dear leader, untouchable, unimpeachable, unreplaceable. With one party and one party only ruling, with military, police and judiciary under control of that party.

In short: They want Thaksin to be their dictator, because he throws a few hundred Baht before their feet every then and when in exchange for filling his own pockets with Gazillions.

Reds' motto apparently: "It is democratic when we 100,000 force the decisions for the 60-odd million in this country".

Some of their points are perfectly valid and they have my support for those points.... however this entire "peace talks" farce is only for and about Thaksin, nothing and noone else. Thaksin tells the "negotiators" what to say and which demands to make, and also what to do if those demands are not met. The red-shirted crowd is being used, the majority of them probably thinks that their protest is to end poverty or get them better education...... or they are there for the little money they get for being there.

Best regards......

Thanh

[invex]

This morning there was the news on Thai channels that someone took 1 billion from Thaksin's seized assets at the bank.... Is this true? What will they do with the bank and the man/people who took it?

Strange story.. is the seized money not frozen enough?????

Any body knows more?

[moresomekl]

Thanh

Abhisit has already offered dissolution of the government if they reds agree to 3 points - free campaigning, no vote buying, no interfering with judicial processes.

The reds didn't agree. What sort of democracy do they want?

Maybe , after all some posters here are right , the red shirts only want Thaksin back . But on this issue , some , the reasonable ones , could form a splinter group . Give it time ...

[yoshiwara]

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

It is definitely the case that you are certainly not making it up as you go along.

It is the voices in your head.

Clear and loud.

You should be leading the negotiations.

[moresomekl]

Abhisit has already offered dissolution of the government if they reds agree to 3 points - free campaigning, no vote buying, no interfering with judicial processes.

The reds didn't agree. What sort of democracy do they want?

Hi.

They want the same type of democracy as in the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea". I.e. Thaksin as dear leader, untouchable, unimpeachable, unreplaceable. With one party and one party only ruling, with military, police and judiciary under control of that party.

In short: They want Thaksin to be their dictator, because he throws a few hundred Baht before their feet every then and when in exchange for filling his own pockets with Gazillions.

Reds' motto apparently: "It is democratic when we 100,000 force the decisions for the 60-odd million in this country".

Some of their points are perfectly valid and they have my support for those points.... however this entire "peace talks" farce is only for and about Thaksin, nothing and noone else. Thaksin tells the "negotiators" what to say and which demands to make, and also what to do if those demands are not met. The red-shirted crowd is being used, the majority of them probably thinks that their protest is to end poverty or get them better education...... or they are there for the little money they get for being there.

Best regards......

Thanh

If Abhisit is sincere about the 3 points I think the governement should engage in a campaign of information to educate the crowd . They could also "assist" in that education task by using a bit of Thaksin seized money .

[PeaceBlondie]

A post spelling "Toxin" is deleted in full. If you cannot spell, don't post.

[moresomekl]

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

It is definitely the case that you are certainly not making it up as you go along.

It is the voices in your head.

Clear and loud.

You should be leading the negotiations.

LOL , well said .

[webfact]

Second round of talks with red shirt leaders

Follow our live updates:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Talks-Red-Sh...es-t351489.html

[johndpoole]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

In my mind Thaksin is incapable of accepting he will not ever return to power let alone be allowed in Thailand without a jail sentence or at minimum a ban from politics.

So, it is kind of scary to think what he might do next.

If you read about this guy, you will find he is somebody who has NEVER given up.

[moresomekl]

I think Abhisit has a long long way to go

http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php...title-2?blog=63

Its really sad

[Ricardo]

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done.

<snip for brevity>

Perhaps you might care to study the actions of the Electoral Commission, over the past five years, they have found plenty of examples of vote-buying, by MPs from several different parties.

Or do you 'believe' they just make these things up ?

[johndpoole]

I think Abhisit has a long long way to go

http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php...title-2?blog=63

Its really sad

I didn't see any link to the actual poll to see the actual questions asked and understanding of the demographics beyond those the writer wanted to share. How a question is asked means an awful lot as does who actually paid to have the polling done.

[lannarebirth]

A lot of playing to the cameras now. To the faithful by the Red Shirts and to the fence sitters by Abhisit. The gloves have come off a bit and it is hard to imagine talks like these could continue much longer without some kind of moderator or limits on speaking and rebuttal times.

Edited March 29, 2010 by lannarebirth

[hammered]

Tonight looks coreographed to collapse. Just wait for the already prepared speeches and statements

[jdinasia]

I think Abhisit has a long long way to go

http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php...title-2?blog=63

Its really sad

I didn't see any link to the actual poll to see the actual questions asked and understanding of the demographics beyond those the writer wanted to share. How a question is asked means an awful lot as does who actually paid to have the polling done.

Beyond the linking to the BP (a no no) I just don't understand the post --- and yes the poll as talked about gave no info.

What I mean by I don't understand the post --- is why is it Abhisit has a long way to go? It is Thailand that has a long way to go to reduce corruption and graft. Abhisit has at least started.

If you trust in polls in Thailand I am sure I can find some that you will love.

[jdinasia]

Tonight looks coreographed to collapse. Just wait for the already prepared speeches and statements

Already started when Dr Weng pulled out his lies and internet photos of troops firing on hte reds last Songkran. It makes one wonder if tin-hats are de riguer amongst the reds?

[SomTumTiger]

Wonder if the Red shirts would be a little more ameniable to Barnham suggestion (amend the constitution jointly and dissolve the house by years end) if the cameras were not on.

Its funny watching Apisit's well reasoned, calm demeanor, next to Jatuporn's idiocy.

[hammered]

So Jatuporn and Weng were there to make propaganda points and Veera to see if a deal could be done.

[jdinasia]

So Jatuporn and Weng were there to make propaganda points and Veera to see if a deal could be done.

Well, Jatuporn might well be arrested as soon as parliament is dissolved. That means the Reds/PTP NEED Veera to be the reasonable one. (He's not on any of the banned lists is he?)

[SomTumTiger]

So Jatuporn and Weng were there to make propaganda points and Veera to see if a deal could be done.

Well, Jatuporn might well be arrested as soon as parliament is dissolved. That means the Reds/PTP NEED Veera to be the reasonable one. (He's not on any of the banned lists is he?)

Is Veera the one in the middle? The only one who seems to be listening? Japuporn is fidgiting around like he has ants in his pants, and the far guy is just staring off into space.

[hammered]

Tulsie is doing another excellent twitter job complete with sarcasm and humour aimed at all

[mazeltov]

Academics call for house dissolution

BANGKOK, 29 March 2010 (NNT) – More than 155 Thai and foreign academics and 90 other independent scholars have submitted an open letter to the government demanding a House dissolution within three months to end the ongoing political tension.

A group of academics on Sunday afternoon gathered at the 14 October Monument to read out the declaration. They also asked both the government and the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) to urgently negotiate to end the conflict in peace.

Dr Yukti Mukdawijitra, a lecturer from the Sociology and Anthropology Faculty of Thammasat University, led the academics to a press conference, stating their concern that use of violence in dispersing the crowd would be inevitable if the situation was left unsolved.

The academics demanded that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dissolve the House within three months without perceiving such action as a defeat. They stressed that House dissolution would return power to people to decide when the country could not move forward.

On the other hand, the academics noted that the UDD should not force the government to dissolve the House immediately, but shoud give the government more time to solve and conduct some urgent policies. Then, all sides should draw up criteria allowing all political parties to equally launch election campaigns.

The academics also asked political and non-political parties to accept the election result allowing the new government to fully administer the country without any effort from outside Parliament to change the course. They claimed that the suggestions were made following continuous discussion on politics after the 19 September coup d’état.

Among the notable academics joining in the petition are former Thammasat University President Charnvit Kasetsiri, Prof Dr Nithi Aewsriwongs, Law Prof Worachet Pakeerut from Thammasat University, and independent academic Sirote Klampaiboon.

Meanwhile, UDD core leader Jatuporn Prompan suggested all related sides sign a ratification to dissolve the House to end the political impasse. He said all parties must also accept the decision of the public from the election result and not make any movement after that.

Mr Jatuporn stated that the three main groups, including, 1) the blue-shirted Bhumjaithai Party, 2) the yellow-shirted New Politics and Democrat Parties, and 3) the red-shirted Puea Thai Party should talk and jointly draw up the ratification. He added that the military could also take part to help end the conflict.

-- NNT 29 March 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303290036