Downer

[mpdkorat]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Chiang Mai per se, so I'm moving it to General. Probably should have move it to the Trash Bin ... rather trollish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I though basically it was pretty accurate and very good advice for the wannabe Thai resident. Really quite hard to argue with his comments.

trollish ?????? Who cares he has a point to make..........

[HarryHacker]

Thetyim, if you do some research, you'll learn that the original story was written by a fraud. He was a teacher at cmu during my time there. After I responded, he then formed a few more fake nicks to back himself up. Since then he has reposted this under a couple of other nicks, with the same kind of 'innocent' lead-in... Again, it became clear after I confronted him again, and he attacked me personally, even referring to a private conversation we'd had some time earlier...

I firmly believe his only intention is to vent and trash....and then hide.  And I feel that Tyree is just Dr. Smith as another sockpuppet, but that's just my feeling.

'Some' good advice, wrapped in a blanket of deceit, bigotry, and racism...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well spotted Ajarn!

[OxfordWill]

Ok so it's possibly a trollish post but it is written fairly well and does make some valid points, particularly if you strip away the emotion. I think the most useful thing to extract from it (and let's face it, if it is a positive reaction wanted then we should give one or we may never see the end of this thread) is that your mass of experience in your own country, as noted by other posters above, may not be of direct equivalent use in the Kingdom as you must learn how to hold new tools to wield it.

Once you know how to 'handle' (for want of a less patronising word) Thai people then you open the gates for your own experience and ability to be of use, so long as you filter it with a sense of 'Thai'. Hrm, hope that makes sense.

p.s. not claiming I can do this, but I think its a good goal.

I don't agree with the parts hinting about an anti-farang conspiracy. The majority of Thai people just feel more comfortable with other Thais - does this surprise anyone?

Edited May 27, 2005 by OxfordWill

[markuk]

and your point is?

[peder.klockmann]

I've read that same ariticle, if that's what it is, on some other website a long while back. But, it was a he.ck of a lot longer and included some information about Thai Buisness practices and talked about the following Thai saying:

"Farang roo mak mai dee"

[Insight]

I've read that same ariticle, if that's what it is, on some other website a long while back.  But, it was a he.ck of a lot longer and included some information about Thai Buisness practices and talked about the following Thai saying:

"Farang roo mak mai dee"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would anybody in their right mind take that "Nana Plaza" style phrase as serious business advice?

[Khun Larry]

Excellent description of the "Real Thailand"

Solid post

[sriracha john]

Interesting points of view here, with Ajarn having very valid points as to the tainted nature of this article (sheesh to think this thing's been bouncing around the internet for EIGHT years). On the other hand Rumpole makes equally valid points about his not-always-so-pleasant experiences in Thailand. Understandably so, given the climate extended to those trying to make it a go here with a business perspective. I consider myself extremely fortunate to avoid trying to make a buck in Thailand and I empathize strongly for those that do. On the matter of the letter itself, it raises very valid points and at the same time makes very invalid ones. To the OP, it should be obvious now that Thailand consists of many people with many different experiences, positive and negative. Both are valid in their own right and as interpretations of experiences don't change easily, for one "side" to try convince the other "side" it's wrong or in error, it's really not worth it to try. Life is how each individual sees it. It's good of you to try to research prior to moving here, what these sides are. Too many people arrive without contemplating both angles. Life here is what you chose to make of it and if you do chose to make it here, it means dealing with everything that goes with it...

To steal an Ajarn line:

Your experience may vary...

I add:

and your point of view is always valid for you

[Khun Larry]

Oh my, another call to arms for the other bigots and racists around here. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, another ignoramus

[Richard Hall]

Rumor always had it that LOS ain't nothing for whiners, losers, whimps etc. but frankly said living here is not much different from being an alien in another country.

Anyway, anyone considering immigration to another country should carefully evaluate his/her personality and ability to adapt and bear with possible tension.

Society generally does not tend to welcome newcomers with cheerful delight and open arms particularly if the new kid in the block is different from the crowd. Be aware of this and adjust quickly. If you can't, better stay in your fatherland's nest to avoid disappointment and getting chewed up.

Cheers,

Richard

[peder.klockmann]

I've read that same ariticle, if that's what it is, on some other website a long while back.  But, it was a he.ck of a lot longer and included some information about Thai Buisness practices and talked about the following Thai saying:

"Farang roo mak mai dee"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would anybody in their right mind take that "Nana Plaza" style phrase as serious business advice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think it was actually any type of "advice" of any form. I belive they were trying to provide insight into Thai "pratices" and thought patterns in regaurds to buisness.

[wilson steer]

There are some good points, but I suspect that the 'newbie' who posted it has had a bad experience in Thailand at some point, who hasn't?

'To live outside the law you must be honest' to quote 'Bob' springs to mind.

[kreon]

well the aussies do not seem to think so

Australians keen on investing in Thailand

BANGKOK, May 27 (TNA) – Australian investors are keen on choosing Thailand as their investment base since they view the country has political stability and consistence in policy making, according to Industry Minister Wattana Muangsuk.

Speaking after meeting with top executives of major Australian companies in gold mining, telecommunications, and auto industries, he said most had expressed interest in investing in new projects and entering into partnership.

Previously, he said, the Australian investors had deliberated whether they would invest in Thailand or China.

Finally, they decided to invest in Thailand because they viewed the country had sound investment atmosphere given the political stability, policy consistence, and the government’s awareness of investors’ needs.

Mr. Wattana said it was a good opportunity for Thailand to boost investment value since each major company keen on investment had total assets of at least US$1 billion or 40 billion baht.

Sunee Sathaporn, Executive Director of the Australian-Thai Business Council of Victoria State, Australia, said Australian investors were very interested in the Thai auto industry.

Many vehicle makers had already invested in Thailand and wanted to be suppliers because the country had a goal of becoming the Detroit of Asia and the Board of Investment had promoted the investment in the industry.

“Conventionally, Austrian investors view Thailand has cheap labor. But upon the establishment of the free trade area between the two countries, the investors pay more attention to exploring investment opportunities in many industries of Thailand,” she said. (TNA) – E005

[rossiok]

I have managed to run a succesful business in the U.K. for ten years,in an industry that is renowned for cut throat and dog eat dog practices.Believe me Ive seen a lot of of things that make you really wonder about human nature (or lack of it)

So experiencing the magic of LOS I thought Hey, move over there and give things a go.Cheap housing,living, cheap labour etc.

But after spending 100`s of hours on research I honestly cant see it happening.Mainly due to one of Downers points.

On any web site that talks about what to do/not do in LOS,avoid any confrontation with Thais is usually in the top 5.Now unless you are very lucky,or in a niche market your business is likely to adversely affect Thai owned or Thai run concerns.

And as we all know Thai versus Farang,there can be only one winner.

Add to that visa and ownership hassles,it leaves IMHO the deck stacked well against you.

Although Ill keep looking,(never say never) I am spending more time thinking about how I can change my lifestyle in the uk so I can spend max time per year in LOS.

No more toys(fast cars,motorbikes, farang women, pub crawls etc).And a change of career so I can have 3-4 months of a year.,until I retire (another 20 years or more )It means living like a monk and working my &lt;deleted&gt; off in the uk .But it would be a great feeling sitting on a plane thinking 3 months off,wahay!!

(bit differant on the way back though )

But as they say,if you wanna make Buddha laugh,just tell him ypur future plans!

[Thomas_Merton]

Given that the OP is a troll, I was just wondering, for arguments sake, if the original analyst had taken Chinese businessmen’s experiences into account?

[OxfordWill]

I noticed that some of the judges for miss universe thailand are farangs with high positions in Thailand. It can't be impossible!

[taxexile]

I am spending more time thinking about how I can change my lifestyle in the uk so I can spend max time per year in LOS.

clever chap.

[sabaijai]

It’s ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that)

Complete rubbish, IMO. I've been here 28 years and have never heard a Thai express such an idea, whether in words or action. There may be a minority who think like this, but this statement alone shows off the OP's callow take on Thailand.

[camerata]

The original post/troll sounds very much like the kind of warped, bar-stool wisdom that the notorious LG used to dispense in soc.culture.thai in the 90s, particularly the part about "being treated like a serf by Thai institutions" and the long-term residents who won't tell "the truth" about Thailand.

Generally, the people who have nothing good to say about Thailand are the ones who want it to have all the advantages of western countries, without the disadvantages, and haven't made much effort to accept the country as it is.

[sabaijai]

The original post/troll sounds very much like the kind of warped, bar-stool wisdom that the notorious LG used to dispense in soc.culture.thai in the 90s, particularly the part about "being treated like a serf by Thai institutions" and the long-term residents who won't tell "the truth" about Thailand.

Generally, the people who have nothing good to say about Thailand are the ones who want it to have all the advantages of western countries, without the disadvantages, and haven't made much effort to accept the country as it is.

Exactly. When all you can talk about are the negatives (and that's true for any country), the problem is you, not the country.

Or you're just trolling, which is surely the case here Tyee hasn't been back and has a cumulative total of only 1 post on tv.com. Feeding time is over for me ...

[Rumpole]

The original post/troll sounds very much like the kind of warped, bar-stool wisdom that the notorious LG used to dispense in soc.culture.thai in the 90s, particularly the part about "being treated like a serf by Thai institutions" and the long-term residents who won't tell "the truth" about Thailand.

Generally, the people who have nothing good to say about Thailand are the ones who want it to have all the advantages of western countries, without the disadvantages, and haven't made much effort to accept the country as it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really cannot allow this to pass unchallenged.

I worked happily and reasonably successfully in eight other countries before Thailand, and have been contentedly ensconced in my present location for three years, having left Thailand in exasperation. There is absolutely no way I either expected or wanted any of those countries to resemble my own. I was happy enough to take the good with the bad, as long as in my own mind, the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. As has been pointed out several times on this thread, different people have different expectations, desires and perceptions. One man's heaven is another man's prison. Some people are unable to adjust to life in the Middle East. I, like many others, took to it like a duck to water and enjoyed the lifestyle on offer there (16 years in total). I do not recall those who decided to leave being derided as "failures" or "losers".

You obviously enjoy living in Thailand. Good for you. I did not. Do you think that my experiences and opinions are somehow less valid than yours? And for the record, one of the main reasons I left, aside from the ludicrously convoluted immigration regulations, was because I did indeed feel that I was being treated like a serf by the Thai institutions for which I worked.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Rumpole

[johng]

Camerata : be carefull

Remember the outcome of the Laurence Godfrey v. Demon Internet Limited case ??? LG won !!!!!

http://www.nominet.org.uk/ReferenceDocumen...onInternet.html

[mpdkorat]

I have lived in Thailand for eight years and have had about 18 years experience of Thailand. I love the place and am still very happy to live here. But the more of us who move here the more the Thai's attitude changes towards us and it really is not getting better in my opinion.

The best way to live in Thailand is to be able to support yourself independently in some form or another. To keep a fairly low profile, i.e. do not become the best friend of a Thai Policeman, even though they are the best police money can buy (sorry could not resist that).

I’m not quite sure why some of you are attacking the content of the op when anyone who has lived here for any length of time knows it is reasonably correct. 'Caveat Emptor'

[mpdkorat]

Camerata :  be carefull

Remember the outcome of the Laurence Godfrey v. Demon Internet Limited case ??? LG won !!!!!      

http://www.nominet.org.uk/ReferenceDocumen...onInternet.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I met Laurence Godfrey shortly after he won that case. I used to be a regular SCT poster at the time LG was a posting. Strange Guy indeed...... The demon case was not the first case that he won if I remember correctly.

Edited May 27, 2005 by mpdkorat

[OldAsiaHand]

I really cannot allow this to pass unchallenged.

I worked happily and reasonably successfully in eight other countries before Thailand, and have been contentedly ensconced in my present location for three years, having left Thailand in exasperation. There is absolutely no way I either expected or wanted any of those countries to resemble my own. I was happy enough to take the good with the bad, as long as in my own mind, the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. As has been pointed out several times on this thread, different people have different expectations, desires and perceptions. One man's heaven is another man's prison. Some people are unable to adjust to life in the Middle East. I, like many others, took to it like a duck to water and enjoyed the lifestyle on offer there (16 years in total). I do not recall those who decided to leave being derided as "failures" or "losers".

You obviously enjoy living in Thailand. Good for you. I did not. Do you think that my experiences and opinions are somehow less valid than yours? And for the record, one of the main reasons I left, aside from the ludicrously convoluted immigration regulations, was because I did indeed feel that I was being treated like a serf by the Thai institutions for which I worked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An intelligent and thoughtful observation, something of a rarity among the gaggle of love-it-or-leave-it halfwits that usually dominate these discussions.

For whatever it's worth, I've lived here for nearly fifteen years now and have long understood a basic truth that most foreigners in Thailand either never figure out or insist on closing their eyes to. It is this: on the whole, Thais don't like foreigners very much. Now if you are self-absorbed enough that you don't mind living among folks who don't like you, and particularly if cheap pussy and lousy beer is high on your list of lifestyle requirements, then this may indeed be the place for you. Otherwise, maybe not.

But the inevitability of trashing anyone who comments here that he thinks this place is something less than heaven is getting really tiresome. Good for you, Rumpole, for not letting it pass unchallenged yet one more time.

[taxexile]

An intelligent and thoughtful observation, something of a rarity among the gaggle of love-it-or-leave-it halfwits that usually dominate these discussions.

For whatever it's worth, I've lived here for nearly fifteen years now and have long understood a basic truth that most foreigners in Thailand either never figure out or insist on closing their eyes to. It is this: on the whole, Thais don't like foreigners very much. Now if you are self-absorbed enough that you don't mind living among folks who don't like you, and particularly if cheap pussy and lousy beer is high on your list of lifestyle requirements, then this may indeed be the place for you. Otherwise, maybe not.

But the inevitability of trashing anyone who comments here that he thinks this place is something less than heaven is getting really tiresome. Good for you, Rumpole, for not letting it pass unchallenged yet one more time.

spot on !

[johng]

I used to be a regular SCT poster at the time LG was a posting

I was an avid reader and lurker ( not poster )

at that time too, fun wasn't it ??

Last time I looked at SCT ( long time ago now ) it seemed to have

degenerated into one large flame war

[mpdkorat]

I used to be a regular SCT poster at the time LG was a posting

I was an avid reader and lurker ( not poster )

at that time too, fun wasn't it ??

Last time I looked at SCT ( long time ago now ) it seemed to have

degenerated into one large flame war

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TV seems the place to be now to get good information on Thailand. I do hope that it does degenerate the same way as SCT did. TV is moderated, so we should be OK.

[the hatai]

Tyee, you couldn't have said it better. I decided to move here about a year ago and start up my own business, acutally not even a year has passed and I am planning on moving out and closing this horrible chapter in my life. I just wished that the advice you have given was a year earlier. All that I have experienced here is horrible, so horrible that I don't even want to get into details. Sure the cost of living here is cheap, and that is what you get- cheap. It was a good experience though, I now know how ###### feels like.

[Khun Larry]

An intelligent and thoughtful observation, something of a rarity among the gaggle of love-it-or-leave-it halfwits that usually dominate these discussions.

For whatever it's worth, I've lived here for nearly fifteen years now and have long understood a basic truth that most foreigners in Thailand either never figure out or insist on closing their eyes to. It is this: on the whole, Thais don't like foreigners very much. Now if you are self-absorbed enough that you don't mind living among folks who don't like you, and particularly if cheap pussy and lousy beer is high on your list of lifestyle requirements, then this may indeed be the place for you. Otherwise, maybe not.

But the inevitability of trashing anyone who comments here that he thinks this place is something less than heaven is getting really tiresome. Good for you, Rumpole, for not letting it pass unchallenged yet one more time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wisdom. Well put.

Wondering if you would add there are no "real Thai friends" to be had by farangs?

For sure I have had my "intelligent and thoughtful observations" critized by "the gaggle of love-it-or-leave-it halfwits (udon, sirachajohn etc) that usually dominate these discussions."

Chookdee na

ps spell checker take note!!