Thai Peace Talks End Without Resolution

[anotherpeter]

He [Thaksin] also believes Abhisit has been avoiding responsibility by reshuffling the Cabinet after various corruption scandals were proven true.

So Abhisit gets rid of the corrupt politicians out of his Cabinet. Isn't that a good thing?

[anotherpeter]

This is a good game of chicken. Abhisit is playing this beautifully. Fair play to the Reds also, at least everyone is talking and as long as they are talking, Thaksin loses some control of the situation.

Will the Reds accept? He is firm on 9 months, but would

like to discuss the 9-month time frame with them again when he returns from a visit to Bahrain.

What exactly is he doing in Bahrain?

He already cancelled trips to Aus and NZ because of the protests. And he cut short his visit to Brunei because of the talks.

He's the Prime Minister. He still has a job to do. Do you want him to sit in his office and do nothing?

[Thai at Heart]

This is a good game of chicken. Abhisit is playing this beautifully. Fair play to the Reds also, at least everyone is talking and as long as they are talking, Thaksin loses some control of the situation.

Will the Reds accept? He is firm on 9 months, but would

like to discuss the 9-month time frame with them again when he returns from a visit to Bahrain.

What exactly is he doing in Bahrain?

He already cancelled trips to Aus and NZ because of the protests. And he cut short his visit to Brunei because of the talks.

He's the Prime Minister. He still has a job to do. Do you want him to sit in his office and do nothing?

I didn't mean that he shouldn't go, I was simply wondering why he is going.

I get a little tetchy when Suthep is running anything, let alone the country.

[Tod Daniels]

The offer of elections before the end of the year is about as good as it gets. Why not just accept it? The government becomes a lame duck as soon as it is accepted <SNIP>

Sadly, you're more than a little off base with the sweeping statement that the Abhisit government becomes a 'lame duck'.

It would still hold a majority via the coalition. Plus it gets to push thru its version of the upcoming budget, it gets to be in power during the up coming military shuffle, and hopefully oversee amendments to the constitution. ALL those things count in a BIG way on the way the chips will fall in an election after that.

It was a shrewd move by Abhisit as he held out the proverbial olive branch showing his willingness to forego his term; all the while knowing if he can push the dissolution back until late this year, the budget and military reshuffle will be under his watch and his coalition’s control.

Smart man ol' "Mark" is. ..

[bacchanal]

I get a little tetchy when Suthep is running anything, let alone the country.

Shouldn't be any problems whatsoever as we've had very positive assurances

He (Jatuporn) affirmed that the red-shirts will protest peacefully and will not block public venues.

[moresomekl]

Sorry ...

Cant get the page in html format just plain text , any server problem at TV or suggestion ?

[webfact]

Sorry ...

Cant get the page in html format just plain text , any server problem at TV or suggestion ?

clear your browser cache and reload with <ctrl> F5

[anotherpeter]

I didn't mean that he shouldn't go, I was simply wondering why he is going.

I get a little tetchy when Suthep is running anything, let alone the country.

Oh. NP.

The only info I could find on WHY he is going, from ... oh ... can't mention that.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Thai delegates at about 7.45am on Tuesday flew to Bahrain for a two-day official visit at the invitation of the government of Bahrain, reports said.

[henryalleman]

The red-dressed movement says the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

oh no ... a parlimentary vote!! How dare they use democracy to get into power!!

Since you must have forgotten, please let me remind you. Usually in legitimate parlimentary governments when a government is found to to have "no confidence" an election by the people must be held in a predetermined time, Not a "parlimentary vote".

The court declared the government in no confidence and removed it therfore a new election was required. It did not happen!

It is as simple as that. This appears to be the change that the government would like to make to the constitution before having an elections. If this is allowed to happen, after an election the court appointed by the incumbent government would simply declare no confidence in a newly elected government (by the will of the people's vote) and will hold a parlimentary vote to re-install the incumbent government effectively making it a dictatorship.

Think, Think. Think!.

In a parliamentary democracy its only the parliament who can disolve the parliament and hold new elections.

[moresomekl]

<br />

Sorry ...<br />Cant get the page in html format just plain text , any server problem at TV or suggestion ?

<br /><br />clear your browser cache and reload with <ctrl> F5<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Thanks . I try that

[animatic]

Since you must have forgotten, please let me remind you. Usually in legitimate parlimentary governments when a government is found to to have "no confidence" an election by the people must be held in a predetermined time, Not a "parlimentary vote".

The court declared the government in no confidence and removed it therfore a new election was required. It did not happen!

It is as simple as that. This appears to be the change that the government would like to make to the constitution before having an elections. If this is allowed to happen, after an election the court appointed by the incumbent government would simply declare no confidence in a newly elected government (by the will of the people's vote) and will hold a parlimentary vote to re-install the incumbent government effectively making it a dictatorship.

Think, Think. Think!.

Ummm I looked for a single accurate fact in your post and there were none.

A 'no confidence vote' is held in parliament it is NOT a function of the courts. That simple fact crushes your entire fallacious argument. It is as simple as that.

I couldn't find anything either, just wild accusations

and things that erroniously back up his predetermined mindset.

[animatic]

'Reshuffling a cabinet' of several players when 1 or 2 are gone bad,

is more a tactic to rotate new cronies into seats as part of the power sharing deal.

Not replacing one when he's bad, and then another later when he's bad etc.

There is no need to throw out most cabinet members to prove you are cleaning house.

Just crush tha bad seeds, and do it early, and often as needed.

[hammered]

What have PTP said about all this? They are or have been remarkably quiet for a parliamnetary opposition

[termad]

"

Reds are disciplined. Yellows are mad and bloodlust," Weng said.

The more grenades go off, the lower the Reds stock will sink...

Wait on Songkran... an anniversary that most Thais will

NOT associate favorably with the Red Shirts.

I think that the election will be long before next winter. Abhisit insisted that he would not call an early election (an election that he knows he won't win) but has now backed down and said he will agree to an election at the end of this year. The Red Shirts have refused this so all that's going to happen now is that the demonstration will get bigger. The election, I believe will be in the next four months.

I don't understand your reference to Dr. Weng's quote. Are you saying that the Red Shirts aren't disciplined? I haven't seen any violence and I don't think any other Party could organize such a huge demonstration even it they had enough supporters agreeing to attend. So to say that they are not disciplined is simply and factually untrue.

Why have you linked the grenade attacks to the Red Shirts? The Police have stated that they think there is a third hand involved. If you know differently where's your proof?

During Songkran last year the Government insisted that they had not sent people to infiltrate the Red Shirts with the aim of causing violence in order to discredit them. We now have the proof that the Government has been trying to infiltrate the Red Shirt rally with their "volunteers" from the Ministry of the Interior and in fact have been caught red handed.

The Public Health Minister, Jurin Laksanavisit, stated that a man diagnosed with H1N1 flu had probably caught it from fellow Red Shirt protesters and he went on to speculate how the flu might spread through the Red Shirts and infect the whole city. It was also released to newspapers that a number of journalists had come down with flu like symptoms. Not just a lie but a calculated scare tactic.

We now know that the only case of H1N1 flu was that one man. Further, that same man is from Phetchaburi province (where there are cases of H1N1 flu) and is not a Red Shirt. He is in fact one of Abhisit's volunteers from the Ministry of the Interior Why was he sent to infiltrate the Red Shirt rally? To pass out tea and cakes?

Knowing government departments all of those"volunteers" from the Ministry of the Interior would have had a medical before being accepted as a "volunteer" That begs the question did the Ministry of the Interior know that the man had H1N1 flu when he was sent to infiltrate the Red Shirts?

If Abhisit is as confident as you imply why would he need to engage in such disgraceful behaviour?

[webfact]

PM: Regrets govt's reconciliation proposal rejected by protest leaders

BANGKOK (TNA) -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Tuesday expressed regret that his government’s reconciliation proposal to dissolve the Parliament at year end was rejected immediately by the Red Shirt leaders,"It's a pity," Mr Abhisit said, affirming that the government is ready to hold additional talks provided that the demonstration remains peaceful.

Speaking to journalists before leaving for a two-day official visit to Bahrain, Mr Abhisit said he demonstrated his willingness in attempting to end the country’s political conflict but his proposal (to work for another nine months on the government’s budget disbursement and a public referendum on constitutional amendments) was rejected right away during Monday’s negotiation.

However, the protesters can exercise their right under the constitution to intensify their campaign, he said.

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced to walk on a separate path from the government was his own agenda not the national agenda, Mr Abhisit said, adding that he did not want people to become political victims.

Democrat Party deputy secretary-general Chamni Sakdiseth, one of the government’s three negotiators, said the Abhisit government will go ahead

with negotiations with the Red Shirt leaders but is yet to start the process to amend the constitution which will lead to the House dissolution within nine months as the Red Shirts rejected the government’s proposal.

He said the negotiation failed because the Red Shirt leaders did not use the forum to find the solution but instead using it to express their political views.

The (Red Shirt) representatives, who held talks with the government are not the real persons who are the root of the problem and Red Shirt leader

Veera Muksikapong is not the person who has the final say, Mr Chamni said.

However, the government will try to continue with talks to solve the conflict although the Red Shirt leaders initially refused to talk, he said.

The Red Shirt leaders announced at their main protest site in Bangkok’s historic inner area that they will continue their two-weeks plus campaign

pressuring the prime minister to dissolve the parliament through peaceful means, while urging their supporters nationwide to join the group's mass

protest in Bangkok to oust the Abhisit administration. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-03-30

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jdinasia]

[

I think that the election will be long before next winter. Abhisit insisted that he would not call an early election (an election that he knows he won't win) but has now backed down and said he will agree to an election at the end of this year. The Red Shirts have refused this so all that's going to happen now is that the demonstration will get bigger. The election, I believe will be in the next four months.

Yet again you begin with something untrue. Abhisit did not insist that he would not call an early election. Your second assertion is also factually untrue- that he knows he won't win an election. Right now Abhisit has over 50% of the MP's in a coalition government, there is no reason to think that a future election will not provide the same type of numbers.

[animatic]

That whole H1N1 argument is a stretch of the imagination.

Edited March 30, 2010 by animatic

[jdinasia]

What have PTP said about all this? They are or have been remarkably quiet for a parliamnetary opposition

Jatuporn is doing all of his talking to the red mob.

[anotherpeter]

The Red Shirt leaders announced at their main protest site in Bangkok’s historic inner area that they will continue their two-weeks plus campaign pressuring the prime minister to dissolve the parliament through peaceful means, while urging their supporters nationwide to join the group's mass protest in Bangkok to oust the Abhisit administration.

I wonder how much support they will lose by rejecting Abhisit's offer?

Certainly the neutrals will sway away from the reds.

But what of those who support the reds for their pro-poor stance (rather than their pro-Thaksin stance)? Which direction will they go?

And if the reds continue to disrupt Bangkok? Will the reds lose the little support they have?

[Thai at Heart]

[

I think that the election will be long before next winter. Abhisit insisted that he would not call an early election (an election that he knows he won't win) but has now backed down and said he will agree to an election at the end of this year. The Red Shirts have refused this so all that's going to happen now is that the demonstration will get bigger. The election, I believe will be in the next four months.

Yet again you begin with something untrue. Abhisit did not insist that he would not call an early election. Your second assertion is also factually untrue- that he knows he won't win an election. Right now Abhisit has over 50% of the MP's in a coalition government, there is no reason to think that a future election will not provide the same type of numbers.

I can't see why the numbers should be that different from last time. The geographical split of the constituencies means that there will PTP landslides in some and Democrat landslides in others.

I guess the fight comes down to a fight for Newin's and Banharn's seats. What a horrible thought.

[hammered]

[

I think that the election will be long before next winter. Abhisit insisted that he would not call an early election (an election that he knows he won't win) but has now backed down and said he will agree to an election at the end of this year. The Red Shirts have refused this so all that's going to happen now is that the demonstration will get bigger. The election, I believe will be in the next four months.

Yet again you begin with something untrue. Abhisit did not insist that he would not call an early election. Your second assertion is also factually untrue- that he knows he won't win an election. Right now Abhisit has over 50% of the MP's in a coalition government, there is no reason to think that a future election will not provide the same type of numbers.

The outcome of the election will depend on how well BJT does in taking Isaan seats linked to how much damage NPP does to the Dems by splitting their vote away allowing PTP to take seats. It is likely nobody really knows right now how this will play out. However, time and budget disbursement would seem to favour the government which is why the reds want an election right now. Oh plus Thaksin desperately needs government change and to think he doesnt have a big say in red strategy is a bit silly. Abhisit is gambling that 9 months is enough to allow the current lot a good run at it and Newin seems to agree although all he needs is the balance of power assuming nobody will win an overall majority. The military and other shadowy groups have their own agendas but it is likely they will want the current government to oversee a smooth handover of leadership at the top.

[termad]

This is a good game of chicken. Abhisit is playing this beautifully. Fair play to the Reds also, at least everyone is talking and as long as they are talking, Thaksin loses some control of the situation.

Will the Reds accept? He is firm on 9 months, but would

like to discuss the 9-month time frame with them again when he returns from a visit to Bahrain.

What exactly is he doing in Bahrain?

He already cancelled trips to Aus and NZ because of the protests. And he cut short his visit to Brunei because of the talks.

He's the Prime Minister. He still has a job to do. Do you want him to sit in his office and do nothing?

I don't believe that he cancelled his trip to Australia I think that he was turned down. He wanted to get out of the country before the demonstrations started as all the other Party Leaders and Pu Yais did but as at at the Friday before the start of the demonstration the trip had not been agreed to. Radio Thailand quoted Abhisit who said "it should be remembered that with an official visit both countries have to agree so if the trip is called off it won't be because of the planned Red Shirt demonstration."

Official visits are planned months before they are made and the details would have been agreed to well before two days before they were due to take place. At the time it would also have meant that his visit would have coincided with the visit by Obama which was cancelled because he was still fighting to get his Health Reform bill through. As it stands he has to make do with his bolt holes at the 11th Infantry or the Air Force Base.

It is also quite interesting to consider his accomodation at the 11th Infantry barracks. The Coup leaders had four very luxurious houses built in the 11th Infantry's grounds for their own personal use, at the Public's expense, and Abhisit stays in one of those houses. General Sonthi has lived there rent free since the Coup and is Abhisit's neighbour there. They must enjoy recalling the times they had during and after the Coup and how the Generals and the Amataya bought Abhisit the Prime Ministership.

[termad]

[

I think that the election will be long before next winter. Abhisit insisted that he would not call an early election (an election that he knows he won't win) but has now backed down and said he will agree to an election at the end of this year. The Red Shirts have refused this so all that's going to happen now is that the demonstration will get bigger. The election, I believe will be in the next four months.

Yet again you begin with something untrue. Abhisit did not insist that he would not call an early election. Your second assertion is also factually untrue- that he knows he won't win an election. Right now Abhisit has over 50% of the MP's in a coalition government, there is no reason to think that a future election will not provide the same type of numbers.

The outcome of the election will depend on how well BJT does in taking Isaan seats linked to how much damage NPP does to the Dems by splitting their vote away allowing PTP to take seats. It is likely nobody really knows right now how this will play out. However, time and budget disbursement would seem to favour the government which is why the reds want an election right now. Oh plus Thaksin desperately needs government change and to think he doesnt have a big say in red strategy is a bit silly. Abhisit is gambling that 9 months is enough to allow the current lot a good run at it and Newin seems to agree although all he needs is the balance of power assuming nobody will win an overall majority. The military and other shadowy groups have their own agendas but it is likely they will want the current government to oversee a smooth handover of leadership at the top.

I'm sure that all of those now Bhumjaithai MPs will be welcomed back with open arms by the voters that they cheated when they were bought by the Military and the Amataya.

[termad]

That whole H1N1 argument is a stretch of the imagination.

So the other English Language newspaper made up the story and so did all the Thai newspapers who ran it. In which case we will now see the Health Minister sueing all those papers who have called him a liar!

Grow up!

[moresomekl]

Still got the same problem on page/cookies not loading in HTML even on another putter , my server problem maybe .

Anyway ....

Well just an experience when i went to country side in cental thailand (my gf from there ). I am a town guy so my experience is quite limited . Even so it seemed to me as many rurals have lots of time to spare . All seem busy during the rice harvest but otherwise much less so . It also seemed to me as if many would like to learn a profession but they dont have the financial means . Some want to learn beeing mechanics , machinist , electrician carpenter ,blacksmith , hairdresser , fabricate furniture , anything you name it .

Why would this governement not use the 9 months (?) they have left to adress this immediate issue . They could hire professionals in those field to organise training courses , and bring those rural ppl to training sites offering them for the duration of the training , free meals ,lodging and a small daily allowance . Once training completed those that want to start their own busineses , if found viable , would be offered micro credits , others could refer to an employement agency (also create by the governement) that would centralise job offers by prospective employers all over Thailand .

Its is clear to me that if this governement wants to win next elections they have to attack the perceived monopoly that Thaksin has on helping the rurals . Thaksin is very popular there and those that underestimate that fact might regret it sooner then later . hel_l even Abhisit could use his televised talks with the reds as an electoral platform to present this program and use it to justify the 8-9 months stay . Of course he would have to follow by action and time is limited so the governement would have to act fast . The free education for all thais till 15 yo is of course very good and must be pursued but does it bring fast improvement to the life of the rurals ?

[ovaltina]

Looking from a sober distance, there is a case to be made that the reds' main cause of rural infrastructure development was already absorbed into Abhisit's portfolio as soon as he came into office, active in several plans he brought in & high on his things-to-do list including clearing up one of the most vested-interest upper echelons in the world.

And by inference, the reds have actually done a collosal amount of damage to themselves this year by re-emerging & playing gloves-off. The election was inevitable anyway, and had the reds stayed at home & just voted when the time came, they might have actually had a better chance. Their cause's politics is much further tarnished now in the eyes of the non-yellow/red Thais, than it was a month ago. In particular, they could have made an effort to distance themselves from Thaksin instead of wearing his face on their t-shirts en-masse. That would have counted as a huge electoral plus for them. Globally too, the UN & such love to take the side of the rural poor, but not when they are supporting a billionaire Bond-villain.

Maybe it is good, despite the needless injuries to soliders and bystanders, "the truth will out" etc. & people know who they are really voting for, and not voting for.

Edited March 30, 2010 by ovaltina

[bacchanal]

I don't believe that he cancelled his trip to Australia I think that he was turned down. He wanted to get out of the country before the demonstrations started as all the other Party Leaders and Pu Yais did but as at at the Friday before the start of the demonstration the trip had not been agreed to.

Official visits are planned months before they are made and the details would have been agreed to well before two days before they were due to take place.

If I may, I'd like to borrow jdinasia's reply, because it fits yet again.

Yet again you begin with something untrue.

and particularly because your untruths were pointed out the first time you trotted them out earlier this month.

Abhisit's planned Australian trip followed an invitation extended by Australian PM last year, eg. "months before."

But if your contacts at Australia's Foreign Ministry can provide contradicting information, we're all ears.

[anotherpeter]

That whole H1N1 argument is a stretch of the imagination.

So the other English Language newspaper made up the story and so did all the Thai newspapers who ran it. In which case we will now see the Health Minister sueing all those papers who have called him a liar!

Grow up!

I don't think he's denying the fact that a "government volunteer" had H1N1.

But your suggestions that it was all a government conspiracy to spread panic was a bit of a stretch.

As you said, he came from an area that has some H1N1 infections.

Your assumption that everyone is health checked before they go to the protests means that you have more faith in this government than I gave you credit for.

[LuckyFive8888]

The Red Shirt leaders announced at their main protest site in Bangkok's historic inner area that they will continue their two-weeks plus campaign pressuring the prime minister to dissolve the parliament through peaceful means, while urging their supporters nationwide to join the group's mass protest in Bangkok to oust the Abhisit administration.

I wonder how much support they will lose by rejecting Abhisit's offer?

Certainly the neutrals will sway away from the reds.

But what of those who support the reds for their pro-poor stance (rather than their pro-Thaksin stance)? Which direction will they go?

And if the reds continue to disrupt Bangkok? Will the reds lose the little support they have?

You're rambling.

No. I'm asking a couple of questions. You should know what rambling is, since you did it several times in the last few posts.

you are right, the bangkok people will get tired of this eventually and will kick the reds out of bangkok. imagine the traffic jams everyday and all the bombing etc. the people in bangkok are trying to work and live normal. 10 million people in bangkok against some tenths of thousands reds.

[anotherpeter]

I don't believe that he cancelled his trip to Australia I think that he was turned down. He wanted to get out of the country before the demonstrations started as all the other Party Leaders and Pu Yais did but as at at the Friday before the start of the demonstration the trip had not been agreed to. Radio Thailand quoted Abhisit who said "it should be remembered that with an official visit both countries have to agree so if the trip is called off it won't be because of the planned Red Shirt demonstration."

Official visits are planned months before they are made and the details would have been agreed to well before two days before they were due to take place. At the time it would also have meant that his visit would have coincided with the visit by Obama which was cancelled because he was still fighting to get his Health Reform bill through. As it stands he has to make do with his bolt holes at the 11th Infantry or the Air Force Base.

It is also quite interesting to consider his accomodation at the 11th Infantry barracks. The Coup leaders had four very luxurious houses built in the 11th Infantry's grounds for their own personal use, at the Public's expense, and Abhisit stays in one of those houses. General Sonthi has lived there rent free since the Coup and is Abhisit's neighbour there. They must enjoy recalling the times they had during and after the Coup and how the Generals and the Amataya bought Abhisit the Prime Ministership.

You make me laugh!!

Childish mind Childish laughter. But if instead of making it up as you go along you concentrated on the facts maybe you wouldn't have so much to laugh about. Maybe you'd even throw away your AV pj's and maybe even the picture of him that I bet you carry in your wallet - you have a very unhealthy fixation, seek help!

MAKING THINGS UP????? Your whole post was made up. Show me ANY evidence of anything you said in your post!