Gold & Silver Manipulation

[JRinger]

GATA's evidence of silver and gold manipulation at CFTC hearing

Testimony from GATA's Bill Murphy to the CFTC hearing in Washington could be embarrassing for some major investment banks.

Lawrence Williams

Friday, March 26, 2010

www.mineweb.com

LONDON -

Some observers feel that the Gold Anti Trust Association (GATA's) long held views on a conspiracy by some major banks and government entities to manipulate precious metals prices are off-target, but the latest evidence produced by GATA chairman Bill Murphy in open testimony at the CFTC hearing is compelling assuming the source material is accurate.

The evidence came in the form of a series of emails, and accompanying commentary, from a London metals trader, Andrew Maguire, who contacted GATA on March 23rd regarding alleged rigging of the precious metals markets by JP Morgan among others, through shorting the markets around key economic data releases, describing in detail how this is achieved. Maguire, Murphy contends, informed the CFTC enforcement division of this market manipulation ahead of the release of farm payroll data in February this year and set out not only how the manipulation would be achieved two days in advance, but also sent real time emails to the CFTC investigators as the alleged manipulation was taking place. According to Murphy the metals prices followed the scenario precisely - something which he felt could not be predicted without prior knowledge of the manipulation of the markets by major players with huge financial clout.

MURPHY'S TESTIMONY TO CFTC

"On March 23, 2010, GATA Director Adrian Douglas was contacted by a whistleblower by the name of Andrew Maguire. Maguire is a metals trader in London. He has been told first-hand by traders working for JPMorganChase that JPMorganChase manipulates the precious metals markets, and they have bragged to how they make money doing so.

In November 2009 Maguire contacted the CFTC enforcement division to report this criminal activity. He described in detail the way JPMorgan Chase signals to the market its intention to take down the precious metals. Traders recognize these signals and make money shorting the metals alongside JPM. Maguire explained how there are routine market manipulations at the time of option expiry, non-farm payroll data releases, and COMEX contract rollover, as well as ad-hoc events.

On February 3 Maguire gave two days' warning by e-mail to Eliud Ramirez, a senior investigator for the CFTC's Enforcement Division, that the precious metals would be attacked upon the release of the non-farm payroll data on February 5. On February 5, as market events played out exactly as predicted, further e-mails were sent to Ramirez while the manipulation was in progress.

It would not be possible to predict such a market move unless the market was manipulated.

In an e-mail on February 5 Maguire wrote: "It is common knowledge here in London among the metals traders that it is JPM's intent to flush out and cover as many shorts as possible prior to any discussion in March about position limits. I feel sorry for all those not in this loop. A serious amount of money was made and lost today and in my opinion as a result of the CFTC's allowing by your own definition an illegal concentrated and manipulative position to continue."

Expiry of the COMEX April call options is tomorrow, March 26. There was large open interest in strikes from $1,100 to $1,150 in gold. As always happens month after month, HSBC and JPM sell short in large quantities to overwhelm all bids and make unsuspecting option holders lose their money. As predicted by GATA, the manipulation started on March 19, when gold was trading at $1,126. Last night it traded at $1,085.

This is how much the gold cartel fears the CFTC's enforcement division. They thumb their noses at you because in more than a decade of complaints and 18 months of a silver market manipulation investigation nothing has been done to stop them. And this is why JPM's cocky and arrogant traders in London are able to brag that they manipulate the market.

This is an outrage and we are making available to the press the e-mails from Maguire wherein he warns of a manipulative event.

Additionally Maguire informed us that he has tape recordings of his telephone communications with the CFTC, which we are taking the appropriate legal steps to acquire."

For a YouTube video clip of Murphy's testimony click or go here.

GATA has published also copies of the emails supposed to have been sent by Maguire to CFTC investigator Eliud Ramirez, and the responses thereto - and is, as noted above, attempting to obtain recordings of Maguire's telephone conversations with the CFTC.

Much of GATA's evidence of market manipulation and suppression in the past has been by inference and through GATA's interpretation of statistics and of various statements made by key figures. This may be the first actual evidence of a real time manipulation effort by one of the major players assuming the emails and statements are accurate and comprehensive.

If true, this is worrying in particular for the investor in precious metals and ranks alongside some of the high speed computer trading programs which make it virtually impossible for the smaller investor to compete with the big boys. Whether what is said to be taking place is strictly legal is yet another matter - as is whether the CFTC will pay any attention, or take any action!

[flying]

Yo

You may have already heard the whistle blower was soon after the victim of a hit & run attempt on both he & his wife

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...nipulation.html

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...r-accident.html

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...king-world.html

Edited April 2, 2010 by flying

[sokal]

Yo

You may have already heard the whistle blower was soon after the victim of a hit & run attempt on both he & his wife

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...nipulation.html

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...r-accident.html

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...king-world.html

Absolute silence from the mainstream media. All of GATAs planned televised interviews where canceled and so far only King World News has interviewed the Whistlblower and GATA. This is the interview- Andrew Maguire & Adrian Douglas Monday, March 29, 2010 Andrew Maguire & Adrian Douglas: Discuss What Could Be the Largest Fraud in History

Why has gold not reacted more to the news ? Tommorow the NFP numbers come out, that is one of the indicators of when the market gets manipulated short. I was going to buy tomorrow but the FFing market is closed.

Edited April 2, 2010 by sokal

[Naam]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

[JRinger]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

....so you're suggesting that because it "happens-all the time" that it shouldn't be made available to those who aren't as informed and intelligent as you try to appear ? Rape, murder, suicide, etc., also happen all the time, are those topics also "YAWWNNNNN" boring to you as well. should we only take notice of your posts as being relevant, like the statement you made some time ago, "Gold is going nowhere and it never will"....I think gold was about $600 an ounce when you made that statement.

[lannarebirth]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

True, and the lesson I learned long ago was, when the market is being manipulated, get on the side of the manipulators.

[Naam]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

1. ....so you're suggesting that because it "happens-all the time" that it shouldn't be made available to those who aren't as informed and intelligent as you try to appear ?

2. Rape, murder, suicide, etc., also happen all the time, are those topics also "YAWWNNNNN" boring to you as well. should we only take notice of your posts as being relevant, like the statement you made some time ago,

3. "Gold is going nowhere and it never will"....I think gold was about $600 an ounce when you made that statement.

1. intelligent people do not fret about water under the bridge or snow that thawed last winter but adapt.

2. yes, they are.

3. gold didn't go anywhere. i believe i made the statement in august 2008 when gold traded around $ 750/ounce. those who bought gold then didn't even double their money. those who bought "my" asset class tripled and quadrupled whatever amount they applied.

[jesimps]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

....so you're suggesting that because it "happens-all the time" that it shouldn't be made available to those who aren't as informed and intelligent as you try to appear ? Rape, murder, suicide, etc., also happen all the time, are those topics also "YAWWNNNNN" boring to you as well. should we only take notice of your posts as being relevant, like the statement you made some time ago, "Gold is going nowhere and it never will"....I think gold was about $600 an ounce when you made that statement.

He is the most intelligent and best informed person in the universe, and he won't hesitate to tell you. He's also convinced that everyone else is stupid. Pillock!

[Naam]

He is the most intelligent and best informed person in the universe, and he won't hesitate to tell you. He's also convinced that everyone else is stupid. Pillock!

welcome to Naam's fan club

[sokal]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

We are talking about 100 to 1 manipulation in this case.

[sokal]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

True, and the lesson I learned long ago was, when the market is being manipulated, get on the side of the manipulators.

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years.

People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

[sokal]

those who bought "my" asset class tripled and quadrupled whatever amount they applied.

Are those gains priced in gold though, I doubt it. I only deal in real money so wake me up when gains are priced in gold. Look at that whopper of a gain if you sold the DOW in the fiat top in 2007

.

Edited April 2, 2010 by sokal

[lannarebirth]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

True, and the lesson I learned long ago was, when the market is being manipulated, get on the side of the manipulators.

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years.

People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

Well, I don't trade Gold specifically, so it's not an issue.

True, I do not understand Gold like you do it seems. This is what I do understand about Gold. It has some value as determined by the market. It is fungible, but it is far less fungible than major currencies. It is concealable and transportable in small quantities. It is a noble metal and does not corrode. It's pretty and women love it. It has high conductivity and only a few cost efficient industrial applications. It's heavy. OK, what else?

Edited April 2, 2010 by lannarebirth

[gregb]

Gold is a currency. All currencies are manipulated. Do you really think the BOT doesn't jump in to "stabilize" the THB when it starts going a way they don't like?

Only difference between XAU and fiat currencies is that the manipulation only comes from those people trying to prevent it from strengthening against their own paper. Of course, that might actually be less intrusive than China who actively tries to make the CNY weaker against the USD. At least XAU doesn't go out of its way to make itself worse off.

If you don't like manipulation, don't trade currencies. They are all manipulated. In the long run, manipulation can't last. But the long run can be decades. Buy gold for the long haul. Be prepared to sit on it for 2 or 3 decades. The major fiat currencies of the West will likely collapse by that point.

The manipulation today only gives you a chance to acquire more of it at a cheaper price. I would be much more upset if governments and central banks were manipulating gold to make it too expensive. It is hard for me to understand people who complain that someone is working overtime to put an asset on sale.

Do you complain when the price of that case of Heinekin is "manipulated"? Those evil beer manipulaters at Lotus are trying to get me to buy more. Clearly a criminal offence.

Buy it you fool! The more they manipulate, the bigger the bargain.

[Naam]

whistle blower? markets manipulated? YAWWNNNNN... manipulation happens in all markets, has happened and will happen all the time. welcome to reality and expensive bakeries

True, and the lesson I learned long ago was, when the market is being manipulated, get on the side of the manipulators.

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years.

People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

incorrect assumption! whether it is soy beans, steel dildoes, orange juice, sugar, marrinated herring, crude oil, dirty undies, currencies or hogs the daily traded amount via paper (or rather digital) derivatives is a multiple of what is actually available physically.

[sokal]

Gold is a currency. All currencies are manipulated. Do you really think the BOT doesn't jump in to "stabilize" the THB when it starts going a way they don't like?

Only difference between XAU and fiat currencies is that the manipulation only comes from those people trying to prevent it from strengthening against their own paper. Of course, that might actually be less intrusive than China who actively tries to make the CNY weaker against the USD. At least XAU doesn't go out of its way to make itself worse off.

If you don't like manipulation, don't trade currencies. They are all manipulated. In the long run, manipulation can't last. But the long run can be decades. Buy gold for the long haul. Be prepared to sit on it for 2 or 3 decades. The major fiat currencies of the West will likely collapse by that point.

The manipulation today only gives you a chance to acquire more of it at a cheaper price. I would be much more upset if governments and central banks were manipulating gold to make it too expensive. It is hard for me to understand people who complain that someone is working overtime to put an asset on sale.

Do you complain when the price of that case of Heinekin is "manipulated"? Those evil beer manipulaters at Lotus are trying to get me to buy more. Clearly a criminal offence.

Buy it you fool! The more they manipulate, the bigger the bargain.

I agree but I don't have the patience to wait 2 or 3 decades. One thing is that the supply of gold cannot be manipulated though

[lannarebirth]

Gold is a currency. All currencies are manipulated. Do you really think the BOT doesn't jump in to "stabilize" the THB when it starts going a way they don't like?

Only difference between XAU and fiat currencies is that the manipulation only comes from those people trying to prevent it from strengthening against their own paper. Of course, that might actually be less intrusive than China who actively tries to make the CNY weaker against the USD. At least XAU doesn't go out of its way to make itself worse off.

If you don't like manipulation, don't trade currencies. They are all manipulated. In the long run, manipulation can't last. But the long run can be decades. Buy gold for the long haul. Be prepared to sit on it for 2 or 3 decades. The major fiat currencies of the West will likely collapse by that point.

The manipulation today only gives you a chance to acquire more of it at a cheaper price. I would be much more upset if governments and central banks were manipulating gold to make it too expensive. It is hard for me to understand people who complain that someone is working overtime to put an asset on sale.

Do you complain when the price of that case of Heinekin is "manipulated"? Those evil beer manipulaters at Lotus are trying to get me to buy more. Clearly a criminal offence.

Buy it you fool! The more they manipulate, the bigger the bargain.

I agree but I don't have the patience to wait 2 or 3 decades. One thing is that the supply of gold cannot be manipulated though

What's funny about you sokal, is that you don't even believe your own bullshit. You're of a speculative mindset when actually the Gold constant value argument kind of makes some sense. You had better have bought it right though.

[manarak]

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years.

People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

incorrect assumption! whether it is soy beans, steel dildoes, orange juice, sugar, marrinated herring, crude oil, dirty undies, currencies or hogs the daily traded amount via paper (or rather digital) derivatives is a multiple of what is actually available physically.

So you didn't put him on ignore after all. I did. And glad.

There you found another fine piece of bullshit.

All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

Oh man, when I read this, my heart jumps and my eyes burn. I lost at least another 100 neurons.

Less than 1% of the open interest in commodity contracts are settled physically.

And the real big size is not traded in futures, but rather with OTC forwards, and there the delivery rate is 0%, because most forwards are cash-settled anyways.

P.S. can you please avoid to quote his nonsense, so I don't have to see it?

Edited April 2, 2010 by manarak

[sokal]

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years.

People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

incorrect assumption! whether it is soy beans, steel dildoes, orange juice, sugar, marrinated herring, crude oil, dirty undies, currencies or hogs the daily traded amount via paper (or rather digital) derivatives is a multiple of what is actually available physically.

So you didn't put him on ignore after all. I did. And glad.

There you found another fine piece of bullshit.

All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

Oh man, when I read this, my heart jumps and my eyes burn. I lost at least another 100 neurons.

Less than 1% of the open interest in commodity contracts are settled physically.

And the real big size is not traded in futures, but rather with OTC forwards, and there the delivery rate is 0%, because most forwards are cash-settled anyways.

P.S. can you please avoid to quote his nonsense, so I don't have to see it?

What I meant was that at the end, all other commodities are consumed so at some point all other commodity deals end with physical delivery. Its not the same with gold, all you need is a promise and that promise could be BS.

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

[Naam]

Anyone on the side of the manipulators has lost nothing but money over the last ten years. People like you do not understand gold and you probably never will. Gold is not consumed, it is hoarded. This leaves the door open to a unique situation because allot of buyers don't bother taking physical delivery. All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time. So take a guess on which way the price will go when there is 100 claims on every one ounce of gold and there is a run on the gold market.

incorrect assumption! whether it is soy beans, steel dildoes, orange juice, sugar, marrinated herring, crude oil, dirty undies, currencies or hogs the daily traded amount via paper (or rather digital) derivatives is a multiple of what is actually available physically.

So you didn't put him on ignore after all. I did. And glad.

There you found another fine piece of bullshit.

All other commodities are consumed so everyone takes physical delivery all the time.

Oh man, when I read this, my heart jumps and my eyes burn. I lost at least another 100 neurons.

Less than 1% of the open interest in commodity contracts are settled physically.

And the real big size is not traded in futures, but rather with OTC forwards, and there the delivery rate is 0%, because most forwards are cash-settled anyways.

P.S. can you please avoid to quote his nonsense, so I don't have to see it?

take it easy Manarak. i had Sokal on ignore but later changed my mind. quite often his bullshit is surprisingly exclusive that it gives me a good laugh and think "does his Mama know that he is using her PC?"

[Naam]

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

there is not? of course there is not because "physical ETFs" do not exist

[excaliber]

what's your prediction now for gold?

Edited April 3, 2010 by excaliber

[Naam]

what's your prediction now for gold?

whom are you asking? a dummy like me or an expert like Sokal?

[sokal]

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

there is not? of course there is not because "physical ETFs" do not exist

You know what I mean... there is a new one,the symbol is PHYS and no, its not backed by copper.

[manarak]

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

there is not? of course there is not because "physical ETFs" do not exist

A small correction here: there is at least one ETF on gold which has 100% of its value backed in gold owned by the fund.

[excaliber]

what's your prediction now for gold?

whom are you asking? a dummy like me or an expert like Sokal?

If the shoe fits !

[sokal]

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

there is not? of course there is not because "physical ETFs" do not exist

A small correction here: there is at least one ETF on gold which has 100% of its value backed in gold owned by the fund.

oh, I thought it was backed in pork bellies, that are never consumed.

[flying]

A small correction here: there is at least one ETF on gold which has 100% of its value backed in gold owned by the fund.

Independently audited on a regular basis? Just curious...

[manarak]

A small correction here: there is at least one ETF on gold which has 100% of its value backed in gold owned by the fund.

Independently audited on a regular basis? Just curious...

In fact there are several "physical" ETFs, but I am only certain of one being audited: The Julius Baer Physical Gold Fund, which is listed on the SWX Swiss Exchange, launched in the third quarter 2008 if I remember well.

It can be delivered in kind.

ISIN 0044781141

I found a link:

http://www.fundinfo.com/de/CH.professional...31-01-2010.html

[Naam]

There is no physical ETFs for pork bellies, wheat or dildoes.

there is not? of course there is not because "physical ETFs" do not exist

A small correction here: there is at least one ETF on gold which has 100% of its value backed in gold owned by the fund.

i repeat "there is no such thing like a physical ETF" but ETFs might exist which are 100% backed by physical gold.