Opinions Invited

[Yamantaka]

I would appreciate input from anyone who is interested in meditation and Buddhism. I have been teaching non-denominational meditation techniques on and off for over twenty years in the US, UK and Thailand. I am thinking of moving to Chiang Rai and renting a house big enough to offer retreats including accommodation and maybe basic meals or self-catering. I have no idea if farangs would want to take meditation instruction from an American for the ease in understanding rather than from an ordained monk. I do offer individually structured analytical meditations to help the student work on specific goals, eliminate specific problems and so forth. And although I am probably Buddha's most ignorant student, try to offer insights on how I apply his teachings to modern day, real world situations.

The dilemma is this: I can rent a house for myself at THB 7 or 8,000; or a two bedroom/two bath house to accommodate one or two retreat participants for THB 12,000; or a three bedroom/three bathroom house to accommodate three or four participants for THB 15,000.

I was working with a small bungalow place to offer four day beginner level retreats (three sessions a day) for THB 7,500 including room and meals, and eight day more advanced retreats (four sessions a day) for THB 17,500. I could charge considerably less than that but although this is what I enjoy doing, don't want to go broke doing it.

What do you think of the possibilities? Thank you.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Yamantaka

[oldgeezer]

You didn't mention a work permit.

[BWPattaya]

You didn't mention a work permit.

My first thought too! Advertising that you intend to set this up gives plenty of warning to others that you are likley to be breaking labour law.

[eggomaniac]

any good business plan includes research and knowledge of the competition,

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&...751b818faa768f4

Have you confirmed that none of these have instructors who are 'easy to understand?'

Good luck on finding your 'niche' market.

Edit: I got the calculator out. charge B17500 each, for 4 in an 8 day period?

B70,000! Do you realise you will only Gross B210,000 per month and only have 6 days off per month?

Edited April 3, 2010 by eggomaniac

[Yamantaka]

I appreciate the input. I have a registered company from other activities so can get a work permit when I need it. And I was a business consultant for forty years. I have lived and done business in Thailand for ten years, so I understand the concept of business plans, work permits, labor laws. I am more inquiring about what those who converse regularly about Dharma, meditation and related topics think about whether there would be enough interested participants to justify my renting a larger home at a substantially higher rent.

Yes, THB 70,000 is too much to earn in eight days for anything related to spirituality. If I could get four people on one retreat, I would lower the cost per person. My plan as far as I have one, is to hold two four-day courses and one eight-day retreat per month.

I am sure that there are some clearly spoken meditation courses available but I have heard often from students that there are also many at which they "could only understand a few words out of each sentence". None that could explain how to integrate teachings and meditations into modern day, real life dilemmas and situations.

any good business plan includes research and knowledge of the competition,

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&...751b818faa768f4

Have you confirmed that none of these have instructors who are 'easy to understand?'

Good luck on finding your 'niche' market.

Edit: I got the calculator out. charge B17500 each, for 4 in an 8 day period?

B70,000! Do you realise you will only Gross B210,000 per month and only have 6 days off per month?

Edited April 3, 2010 by Yamantaka

[billzant]

Dear Yamantaka,

I wish you every luck with this venture.

In Bangkok there are many retreats in clear English on offer - they are however clearly Buddhist.

http://littlebang.wordpress.com/

From what little I understand there are a number of activities in Chiang Mai such as Mantak Chia and others I do not recall, there is an additional blog that might give you some information:-

http://greenpapayasangha.wordpress.com/

What do you offer that is different?

I believe people market outside Thailand for such things but I have no good evidence for that belief.

Hope you are keeping well,

All the Best,

Bill Z

[Brucenkhamen]

I'm not sure this would work unless you are relying on your reputation and previous students to want to come and stay with you.

There are plenty of opportunities to do retreats in Thailand, many for next to nothing in cost. I know I'd prefer a larger more structured retreat setting unless I'd already practised with you and considered you one of my teachers.

You are probably better off embedding yourself in an existing Wat like Steve and Rosemary Weissman have done, this will give you more resources and credibility. Or you'll need to network, if you can get other teachers to recommend you for students looking for more retreat opportunities.

Failing that I guess you could advertise locally around the backpacker circuit and hope to get drop ins but I suspect most of them will prefer a larger group and a more organised setting than 3 or 4, but if they are having trouble finding a good english language intro this might just be the ticket.

[Svenn]

I'm not sure this would work unless you are relying on your reputation and previous students to want to come and stay with you.

I agree; I'm no expert, but I think a lot of people look upon for-profit meditation instruction as inherently suspect or dubious, even if you are well-intended. You could be very good at what you do, and a lot of people could benefit, but most tourists wouldn't have come all the way to Buddhist Thailand to be taught non-Buddhist meditation by a non-Thai. I think you could succeed if you market yourself outside Thailand, i.e. with counseling organizations or wellness-based tourism companies. You could offer yourself as an additional tack-on to their trips or something. Anyway, remember I'm no expert and best of luck.

[rockyysdt]

My thoughts are that the market consists of two main groups.

Those who view meditation practice as a way of improving ones general well being through deep relaxation (meditation).

and

Those who subscribe to the Buddha's teachings & view practice as their path to personal experience & enlightenment.

Those who wish to practice dhamma may generally distrust any business or organization which seeks to profit on someones spiritual journey.

Your fees are low by western standards but in Thailand you'll be competing with genuine Theravada Buddhist retreats offering instruction food and lodgings for cost.

Back packers operating on shoe string budgets & will opt for Thai Buddhist retreats which charge as little as B2,000 or less for 11 days.

Other retreats charge nothing and welcome anonymous donations.

Also I'd imagine many travelers considering a retreat, empowered with social forums on the internet, will do their homework before embarking.Topics covered include English speaking monks who assist the Abbot when conducting one on one instruction as well as teaching.

Edited April 3, 2010 by rockyysdt

[Yamantaka]

Thanks everyone! I will continue to teach on an individual basis and forego the possibility of residential retreats.

[khaowong1]

any good business plan includes research and knowledge of the competition,

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&...751b818faa768f4

Have you confirmed that none of these have instructors who are 'easy to understand?'

Good luck on finding your 'niche' market.

Edit: I got the calculator out. charge B17500 each, for 4 in an 8 day period?

B70,000! Do you realise you will only Gross B210,000 per month and only have 6 days off per month?

what are you talking about.. 210,000 baht a month is a very decent living in Thailand. you must be Brit, many American work 6 days a week. 6 days off a month is better than I had my last 12 years working in the U.S.

But don't forget the work permit.

[khaowong1]

My thoughts are that the market consists of two main groups.

Those who view meditation practice as a way of improving ones general well being through deep relaxation (meditation).

and

Those who subscribe to the Buddha's teachings & view practice as their path to personal experience & enlightenment.

Those who wish to practice dhamma may generally distrust any business or organization which seeks to profit on someones spiritual journey.

Your fees are low by western standards but in Thailand you'll be competing with genuine Theravada Buddhist retreats offering instruction food and lodgings for cost.

Back packers operating on shoe string budgets & will opt for Thai Buddhist retreats which charge as little as B2,000 or less for 11 days.

Other retreats charge nothing and welcome anonymous donations.

Also I'd imagine many travelers considering a retreat, empowered with social forums on the internet, will do their homework before embarking.Topics covered include English speaking monks who assist the Abbot when conducting one on one instruction as well as teaching.

very good information.

[bankei]

You might be interested in the blog of an American researcher doing her Ph.D. on English language meditation/retreat groups in Thailand

http://wanderingdhamma.wordpress.com/