Do We Want The Reds Shirts To Lead Thailand Forward?

[whistleblower]

After reading (the excellent) updates on TV about the protests mustn't people be asking if we want these morons leading the country.

They take over a main intersection, then say they are gonna storm certain buildings, then demand toilets from an organisation they had already threatened to storm and take over. If not they are gonna piss in the street, then we see that one of the red shirt leaders is teaching these morons how to 'bang plastic water bottles on the ground in tune to anti Govt songs'.

I send send the fuzz in and water cannon them out.

[Jingthing]

It would be a freaking nightmare! Cheering for sanity to prevail.

[frodo]

Given each leaders rhetoric advocating nothing but violence, I would have to say, not a chance.

[7by7]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration. Parts of central London, for example, are often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

[whistleblower]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration; Parts of central London, for example, is often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

I disagree.

They were offered talks (3rd round) and declined cos they couldnt get the govt to dissolve in 15 days. If you listen to the MORONS on the stage you would understand what i'm talking about.

And in London demonstrators dont wander around aimlessly. The protest route is planned, submitted to the police so security, traffic re routing can be done in advance.

Ive never seen a protest leader in London teaching the masses to 'bang plastic bottles on the ground in tune with the chants' Nor have i seen a protest leader in London on a stage demanding toilets or "we'll piss in the street"

If they had something decent to say, or they were protesting for a real cause instead of being paid by a man who has lost face and is using them to try and regain power, then maybe i wouldnt call them morons!

[Loz]

What I find most interesting about this is that the views of those "immersed" in rural life seem to get closer to the reds while those living nearer towns and cities seems to remain static. I noticed this this evening as I could see someone I know just spoiling for a fight about it so he could defend the reds. This guy is the least likely supporter but all the people around him in his village are polar opposites. I imagine he doesn't feel the least bit influenced by them, yet tonight he was a very different bloke.

I hope it all ends quietly and without bloodshed. These things are way to complicated to try and reslove on a chat forum.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Fortunately the Reds are not claiming to want to lead the country; they just want elections pronto, and democracy in general.

Several of the yellow leaning forum members always go to great effort to point out the difference between PAD and the Democrat party. Guess what, it's similar with the Reds and Phua Thai.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration. Parts of central London, for example, are often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

Hear hear!!

Edited April 3, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[7by7]

Whistleblower, you have obviously never seen a protest in London by the cyclists. No coordination with the police; just thousands of cyclists riding in large groups and blocking the roads.

Maybe you should remember that Thaksin was democratically elected and then removed by a military coup. You will now doubt say that he and his party were guilty of bribing voters etc.; to which my reply is that if you believe no other party in Thailand did the same then you are very naive!

Remember that democracy not only means you can express your opinion, but those with whom you disagree can as well!

[Insight]

Whistleblower, you have obviously never seen a protest in London by the cyclists. No coordination with the police; just thousands of cyclists riding in large groups and blocking the roads.

Maybe you should remember that Thaksin was democratically elected and then removed by a military coup. You will now doubt say that he and his party were guilty of bribing voters etc.; to which my reply is that if you believe no other party in Thailand did the same then you are very naive!

Remember that democracy not only means you can express your opinion, but those with whom you disagree can as well!

I appreciate you're ne,w but.....

... hang on, you're a mod!?!

[Jingthing]

Given the violent revolutionary CIVIL WAR inciting rhetoric coming today from the red shirt LEADERS, I find it truly disgusting that the red shirts have any remaining foreign apologists. It is surreal to hear the red lovers using the same arguments as before, as if things didn't radically change today. Wake up! This is not about allowing free speech and peaceful protest, we are all for that. This is about how to deal with a Thaksin incited civil war.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[7by7]

Insight, being a Mod does not stop me from holding, and expressing, an opinion.

[gregb]

Were they ever to succeed in regaining control of the country, the PAD would return to streets and do the same thing.

Remember, whatever happens tonight will set the stage for how the PAD will be dealt with should this whole new election thing proceed and the reds actually win.

The red shirts running the country is not acceptable to thinking people everywhere. If you believe what the red shirts are doing right now is acceptable behaviour, then you must also accept that should they win and take over the government, the yellows will do exactly the same thing. And you will be on record stating you believe this is acceptable.

There is no justification for what is happening right now. None. And under no circumstances will these bozos be allowed to lead the country.

Civil war will happen first.

[Insight]

Insight, being a Mod does not stop me from holding, and expressing, an opinion.

No, but it makes me somewhat apprehensive about debating it.

[7by7]

Why?

I assure that I would not use my position to alter or delete any posts with which I disagreed (if I did, there's be fewer posts in this topic than there are, and I wouldn't be a Mod for much longer!)

[Jingthing]

Why?

I assure that I would not use my position to alter or delete any posts with which I disagreed (if I did, there's be fewer posts in this topic than there are, and I wouldn't be a Mod for much longer!)

Don't be so naive. But I guess that is redundant when talking to a foreigner who makes excuses for the violent red shirts.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[Insight]

Why?

I assure that I would not use my position to alter or delete any posts with which I disagreed (if I did, there's be fewer posts in this topic than there are, and I wouldn't be a Mod for much longer!)

It's not my posts I'm worried about, it's my membership status. This conversation is already borderline on a forum rule so excuse me if I don't reply again.

[smokie36]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration; Parts of central London, for example, is often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

I disagree.

They were offered talks (3rd round) and declined cos they couldnt get the govt to dissolve in 15 days. If you listen to the MORONS on the stage you would understand what i'm talking about.

And in London demonstrators dont wander around aimlessly. The protest route is planned, submitted to the police so security, traffic re routing can be done in advance.

Ive never seen a protest leader in London teaching the masses to 'bang plastic bottles on the ground in tune with the chants' Nor have i seen a protest leader in London on a stage demanding toilets or "we'll piss in the street"

If they had something decent to say, or they were protesting for a real cause instead of being paid by a man who has lost face and is using them to try and regain power, then maybe i wouldnt call them morons!

Aye Whisleblower can we expect to see you campaigning for better educational opportunities for the people of Issan in future?

Your argument is based on a first world democracy when in Thailand many of those protesting have no idea what you are talking about.

[7by7]

Why?

I assure that I would not use my position to alter or delete any posts with which I disagreed (if I did, there's be fewer posts in this topic than there are, and I wouldn't be a Mod for much longer!)

Don't be so naive. But I guess that is redundant when talking to a foreigner who makes excuses for the violent red shirts.

Why?

I assure that I would not use my position to alter or delete any posts with which I disagreed (if I did, there's be fewer posts in this topic than there are, and I wouldn't be a Mod for much longer!)

It's not my posts I'm worried about, it's my membership status. This conversation is already borderline on a forum rule so excuse me if I don't reply again.

Believe what you will, Gentlemen.

[TheLaughingMan]

Don't need to "believe" anything, I've seen mods here dominate a discussion and constantly delete opposing viewpoints. It happened.

[whistleblower]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration; Parts of central London, for example, is often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

I disagree.

They were offered talks (3rd round) and declined cos they couldnt get the govt to dissolve in 15 days. If you listen to the MORONS on the stage you would understand what i'm talking about.

And in London demonstrators dont wander around aimlessly. The protest route is planned, submitted to the police so security, traffic re routing can be done in advance.

Ive never seen a protest leader in London teaching the masses to 'bang plastic bottles on the ground in tune with the chants' Nor have i seen a protest leader in London on a stage demanding toilets or "we'll piss in the street"

If they had something decent to say, or they were protesting for a real cause instead of being paid by a man who has lost face and is using them to try and regain power, then maybe i wouldnt call them morons!

Aye Whisleblower can we expect to see you campaigning for better educational opportunities for the people of Issan in future?

Your argument is based on a first world democracy when in Thailand many of those protesting have no idea what you are talking about.

Err, thats exactly my point. The people protesting dont know what they are protesting for. If they were protesting about better education for issan people that would be a start.

If you look at all the tshirts/banners/posters etc 95% of them are about/mention Thaksin. If they were protesting that they want a certain party in/back in power, they would have more credibility. Pure and simple they are getting paid to protest and they aint interested in the outcome as long as they get paid.

And the reason they have stepped up a gear this weekend is because they know their (already) dwindling numbers wanna bugger off home next week and be involved in more important things like getting pissed on lao kaow and throwing water at people for 5 days solid! (During which, incidently, issan is going through a drought)

[smokie36]

One of the democratic freedoms we in the west enjoy is the right to demonstrate, even though others may be inconvenienced by that demonstration; Parts of central London, for example, is often closed to traffic for just such a reason.

Why do you want to deny that right to the Thais?

You may not agree with the demonstrator's cause or methods, but calling them 'morons' says more about you than them!

I disagree.

They were offered talks (3rd round) and declined cos they couldnt get the govt to dissolve in 15 days. If you listen to the MORONS on the stage you would understand what i'm talking about.

And in London demonstrators dont wander around aimlessly. The protest route is planned, submitted to the police so security, traffic re routing can be done in advance.

Ive never seen a protest leader in London teaching the masses to 'bang plastic bottles on the ground in tune with the chants' Nor have i seen a protest leader in London on a stage demanding toilets or "we'll piss in the street"

If they had something decent to say, or they were protesting for a real cause instead of being paid by a man who has lost face and is using them to try and regain power, then maybe i wouldnt call them morons!

Aye Whisleblower can we expect to see you campaigning for better educational opportunities for the people of Issan in future?

Your argument is based on a first world democracy when in Thailand many of those protesting have no idea what you are talking about.

Err, thats exactly my point. The people protesting dont know what they are protesting for. If they were protesting about better education for issan people that would be a start.

If you look at all the tshirts/banners/posters etc 95% of them are about/mention Thaksin. If they were protesting that they want a certain party in/back in power, they would have more credibility. Pure and simple they are getting paid to protest and they aint interested in the outcome as long as they get paid.

And the reason they have stepped up a gear this weekend is because they know their (already) dwindling numbers wanna bugger off home next week and be involved in more important things like getting pissed on lao kaow and throwing water at people for 5 days solid! (During which, incidently, issan is going through a drought)

Having accepted their lack of educational opportunity do you still describe them as 'morons'?

[whistleblower]

Oxford Dictionary: Moron 1. An adult with intelligence equal to that of an average child of 8-12 years. 2. (informal) A very stupid person.

So yes i do

[Insight]

Why not leave the canned outrage at home and use this thread as an indicator of the current attitude towards the protesters?

[smokie36]

Oxford Dictionary: Moron 1. An adult with intelligence equal to that of an average child of 8-12 years. 2. (informal) A very stupid person.

So yes i do

Interesting comparison bearing in mind most have jobs , families , bills to pay in fact living lives much like anyone anywhere in the world. And all with this intelligence of an 8-12 year old child we are being led to believe. How many children do you know who are doing this?

[ihunnieibee]

So funny how a lot of you members like to believe everything you see on television or read in the newspapers, which are owned by the current government.

They show what they want, you don't see everything.

Funny how hi-so people like to talk down about the lower class population but don't want to do anything to help them. Funny when they run out of rice to feed the hi-so people because those farmers are in Bangkok demonstrating for things they believe in.that they will starve... Who is the stupid one now? Yeah, maybe some are getting paid to be there, but there are also people who believe in a fair election. These people aren't stupid if they are born in a country that has so many rich people and loads more poor people who are looked down upon because they don't even have the opportunity for it!!!! My parents always taught me to give respect to everyone and where they come from. If someone is less fortunate than I am then I should not look down on them but try to help them......................

Let's say you are in your home country..and you have a leader that a lot of people don't agree with... Then all the sudden the military takes over without any question to ALL CITIZENS OF THE SOCIETY..they just throw some puppet into power. How would you feel? They want 15 days and not 9 months because 9 months is long enough for this current government to get their own people into the position to "fix" the voting process..

I mean it does suck to have a bunch of protests all over the place, but they have a cause, they haven't been violent ..which I wish they would..There has to be some kind of action that won't be pleasant if they want to succeed. It isn't about you getting to where you want to go, it is about justice for a country that as had some rights just taken away with no question to them.

This is just my opinion, and this is pretty much the first time I've voiced it, I would like to think that it counts for something even tho I am only living here, and not a citizen........

[Chaimai]

Whistleblower, you have obviously never seen a protest in London by the cyclists. No coordination with the police; just thousands of cyclists riding in large groups and blocking the roads.

Maybe you should remember that Thaksin was democratically elected and then removed by a military coup. You will now doubt say that he and his party were guilty of bribing voters etc.; to which my reply is that if you believe no other party in Thailand did the same then you are very naive!

Remember that democracy not only means you can express your opinion, but those with whom you disagree can as well!

Yes. But that is where you go round in circles - the government is legitimate, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't.

The fact remains IT IS. Abhisit is the legal owner of the title PM.

Why can't everybody just start from this point.

Forget what went before, get it right for the future. Clean the electoral process up, lock up Thaksin (or deport him) and see who gets voted in. There will still class divides, there will still be puppeteers on all sides, BUT, during 2553 we could see a 100% gold-plated legitimate government.

NOW; red shirts, get off the streets and go home for Songkran. PAD - continue to keep out of it. Reds leadership - agree the road map with Abhisit. Abhisit - exceed the expectations on timing and oversee free and fair elections. Your job will be done - well done.

Thaksin - shut the f*** up - this is not about you (as everyone has agreed)

[smokie36]

So funny how a lot of you members like to believe everything you see on television or read in the newspapers, which are owned by the current government.

They show what they want, you don't see everything.

Funny how hi-so people like to talk down about the lower class population but don't want to do anything to help them. Funny when they run out of rice to feed the hi-so people because those farmers are in Bangkok demonstrating for things they believe in.that they will starve... Who is the stupid one now? Yeah, maybe some are getting paid to be there, but there are also people who believe in a fair election. These people aren't stupid if they are born in a country that has so many rich people and loads more poor people who are looked down upon because they don't even have the opportunity for it!!!! My parents always taught me to give respect to everyone and where they come from. If someone is less fortunate than I am then I should not look down on them but try to help them......................

Let's say you are in your home country..and you have a leader that a lot of people don't agree with... Then all the sudden the military takes over without any question to ALL CITIZENS OF THE SOCIETY..they just throw some puppet into power. How would you feel? They want 15 days and not 9 months because 9 months is long enough for this current government to get their own people into the position to "fix" the voting process..

I mean it does suck to have a bunch of protests all over the place, but they have a cause, they haven't been violent ..which I wish they would..There has to be some kind of action that won't be pleasant if they want to succeed. It isn't about you getting to where you want to go, it is about justice for a country that as had some rights just taken away with no question to them.

This is just my opinion, and this is pretty much the first time I've voiced it, I would like to think that it counts for something even tho I am only living here, and not a citizen........

Freedom and democracy in Thailand.

[Insight]

So funny how a lot of you members like to believe everything you see on television or read in the newspapers, which are owned by the current government.

They show what they want, you don't see everything.

Funny how hi-so people like to talk down about the lower class population but don't want to do anything to help them. Funny when they run out of rice to feed the hi-so people because those farmers are in Bangkok demonstrating for things they believe in.that they will starve... Who is the stupid one now? Yeah, maybe some are getting paid to be there, but there are also people who believe in a fair election. These people aren't stupid if they are born in a country that has so many rich people and loads more poor people who are looked down upon because they don't even have the opportunity for it!!!! My parents always taught me to give respect to everyone and where they come from. If someone is less fortunate than I am then I should not look down on them but try to help them......................

Let's say you are in your home country..and you have a leader that a lot of people don't agree with... Then all the sudden the military takes over without any question to ALL CITIZENS OF THE SOCIETY..they just throw some puppet into power. How would you feel? They want 15 days and not 9 months because 9 months is long enough for this current government to get their own people into the position to "fix" the voting process..

I mean it does suck to have a bunch of protests all over the place, but they have a cause, they haven't been violent ..which I wish they would..There has to be some kind of action that won't be pleasant if they want to succeed. It isn't about you getting to where you want to go, it is about justice for a country that as had some rights just taken away with no question to them.

This is just my opinion, and this is pretty much the first time I've voiced it, I would like to think that it counts for something even tho I am only living here, and not a citizen........

What has been taken from them?

[ihunnieibee]

What do you mean what was taken from them??? Their right to vote who goes into power!!