Reds Might Have Shot Themselves In The Foot

[Curfew]

"Reds might have shot themselves in the foot"......A wishful headline if I ever saw one.

I notice all the cluck-clucks and pretend political affronts to this Red Shirt democracy Movement Siam Square action.

"This is too much" is the supposed balanced opinions of reasonable people.

Who cares.

Those who pretend to be affronted by this action are the enemies of this democracy Movement anyway. They would be affronted by seeing a single Red Shirt at Disneyland.

Especially annoying are those those who pretend to be neutral but than launch into an anti-Red Shirt tirade, spouting all the regular arrogant PAD/Amataya line of reasoning

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

In any event, the Amataya govt. and their moneyed friends who are losing money at Siam Square, now need to show their true colors. They cannot afford to wait for Songkran to disperse the Red Shirt protesters for them.

Those who matter to this Democracy Movement are saying, "About time".

And remember folks, they are the vast electoral majority. The huge, huge number of protesters in BKK now, are merely representative of the vastly greater numbers in the country. No amount of bogus downplaying in the Amataya media of their significance by fabricating low turn-out numbers changes that.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Curfew

[dominique355]

in respect to the negotiations, the reds didn't lose anything, but they did hold their own. They could be seen as negotiating equals to the government. There was no intent by the government to negotiate anything. Instead it was to show the government was listening and it acted to calm the political atmosphere. On that PM Abhisit was successful.

Correct me, but hasn't Aphisit agreed to shorten his mandate and hold election within 9 months? Isn't that "negotiation"? And how much did the Red Shirts move? From 15 days to ... er ... 15 days, which - by the way - have passed now.

So who exactly has no intent to negotiate?

[animatic]

Remember the old adage ?

Slowly slowly catchee monkey

The government is using that theory and slowly but surely the Red Shirt Brigade are arousing public hostility against themselves, the popularity of the movement is being severely damaged, indeed self inflicted wounds otherwise known as suicide

Yes, they are giving them enough rope,

and letting them hang their image in effigy for the country to see.

Abhisit gave it the old college try on television twice, and gave reasonable concessions,

and the world watched Tweets to Jutaorn and then a change of tactic...

clearly these 3 were not the actual negotiator at the table.

Now after turning down reasonable and workable concessions, that are now off the table,

they go once more for paralyzing Bangkok, using the double standard argument;

PAD did it, so we can do it or it's a double standard.

Not thinking that most did not and DO not like the history of the 'Airport Takeover'

and don't see it as a free pass to do similar, but as a warning never to let similar happen again...

Reds are using this past as a free license to abuse the nation in the present.

But it would seem most of the nation has LEARNED FROM THE PAST,

it seems ther Reds never learned the lessons properly.

And Thaksin doesn't care one way or another, he wants to win at all costs.

[bubba]

I just saw a report that there are not many people in Ratchaprasong this morning. It sort of makes sense, as there is another aspect here of the reds shooting themselves in the foot.

Many of the reds on the street are paid to be there. I know they came through my soi asking for people to sign up for 500 baht/day last weekend, although nobody here admits to signing up. Once things reach a certain point, such as being arrested and facing a year in prison, the recruits that are paid by the reds will begin to wonder whether all this is really worth 500-1000 baht/day. Suddenly, it all becomes much less of a party and some easy money.

Just curious, bubba, since you have been here a long time, what is this issue about the demonstrators being paid? A lot of others in these forums have ranted about them being paid. Wouldn't you think that if money is their motivation, the PM would be smart enough to just pay them to go home and expose their lack of allegiance?

No, I think the PM is smart enough not to get in a bidding war to pay reds to go back home. After seeing the YouTube videos of money being handed out, do you honestly think that the Government would want to have similar videos of them doing the same thing?

I don't really blame so many poor people for taking the money to put on a red shirt and go to Bangkok. It's sort of sad to me that people from poor provinces would endure such hardship for 500 baht/day, but that is a princely sum compared to what they could earn back home. They don't care about politics or the ethics of taking money to demonstrate, and it would be elitist and wrong to blame them for doing so. It's not unlike vote buying, or how we saw television coverage of Thaksin literally handing out 500 baht notes to people when he was PM. If you have a hungry family who needs clothes and even money for your kids to buy school uniforms, how can you blame them for the ethics of selling their political allegiance? Personally, I loathe the idea of doing that myself, but I am thankful that I am not in that position and never have been.

[jdinasia]

Did they ever have a chance in winning the election in Bangkok? Do you really thing this is being done to win over Bangkok voters?

It may be possible that their upcountry supporters may like seeing them on the news "taking over Bangkok"... the whole "sticking it to the rich Bangkokians" thing may actually be applauded in many areas of the country.

Also, since the up country folks are not being inconvenienced in anyway it is unlikely that they are "shooting themselves in the foot" with the voters who are likely to be voting for them.

Your thoughts could be valid --- but only if Bangkok was not inhabitted by MANY people from upcountry that work and live here and send money back to the provinces. So "sticking it to Bangkok" does in fact "stick it to the provinces" as well.

Several areas in BKK have swung to vote for TRT in the past. It isn't likely to happen in the future. (My partner voted TRT once.)

As for geriatrickid's post ---- The government cannot afford to wait much longer in a situation like this.

The discussions between the reds and the government wasn't a draw. The government came out looking conciliatory and caring. They offered to give up a year they are entitled to and only held back enough time to get the next budget through and see to a national referendum on the constitution. Something the Reds say they want. The government's offer to meet the reds more than half-way on the time frame for new elections certainly plays well across the country. The final and biggest benefit to the government from those talks is that they were able to speak directly to the reds on their own channel without having the tape edited first.

[animatic]

Attention! Attention residents!

Perception Management Professionals at work in this thread.

Watch your steps because the effluent is flowing deep and wide.

Believe what you can tell for yourself, and not the spoutings of assorted lockstep

posters saying clear variations of the same thing over and over, with one end game;

supporting, the over throw of a working government, to re-install a puppet government.

They want to make you believe that there IS an actual cause from actually sincerely lead people,

the supplants the obvious attempt at a power grab via street violence.

Make you own decisions and don't be swayed by professionals trying to mold your perceptions.

Not pointing a specific posts or posters, this is in general, for you own opinions

based on your OWN observations, after consulting many sources and of course Thai friends.

Don't be mislead.

Edited April 4, 2010 by animatic

[Curfew]

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

Complicitory and 47 Rai

[animatic]

Thai Visa Forum Kraisu.

Return of the living banned.

[siampolee]

It would be an interesting scenario if the Red Shirt Brigade leadership were asked to publicise their projected government policies and indeed their grandiose plans to assist the less well off to rise from the depths of poverty to relative affluence.

This of course should be via a nationally networked all channels including cable systems televised programme so as people could indeed see the honest sincerity that the likes of Weng, Jutaporn ,Veera and their puppet master Thaksin may espouse regarding the liberation of the masses rather than the liberation of one person and their money.

This course of action would indeed show the public at large just what the political persuasion and presumed policies of the Red Shirt Brigade might be thus encouraging a vote either for or against the Red Brigade supporting party in any general election that may be held..

Of course the truth hurts and reality bites, that may indeed be the reason that there has to date as far as I am aware never been a solid statement policy from the Red Shirt Brigade apart from the regular ranting tirade to dissolve the current parliamentary administration.

Indeed''empty vessels make the most sound.''

Edited April 4, 2010 by siampolee

[Meridian007]

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

Complicitory and 47 Rai

Is this what you're talking about Animatic? Quoting themselves, and incoherent?

There seem to be many of them across the threads on TVF this morning, and this worries me. The last time we saw multiple dormant and new accounts that had a smaller number of users behind them, was as the violence was building during Black Songkran. I hope that this resurgence doesn't mean that we are in for a similar situation now...

[otherstuff1957]

The Reds never really had a chance of winning elections in Bangkok, the real question is how will this play upcountry. If the Issan folks are impressed by the Government's restraint & reasonableness, the democrats and coalition partners might chip away at PTP's numbers next election. However, if the folks upcountry are impressed by the Red's power in 'shutting down Bangkok', it might give the PTP a boost. Also, if the Govt. starts shooting, they are guaranteeing a Red electory victory, which, of course, is what Thaksin has been hoping for all along.

As for increased or decreased Red support here, remember that people vote in the Tambon that their Tabien Baan is registered in. Many, probably most, of the 'Bangkok Reds' will vote upcountry, not in Bangkok. So, many of the 'local' Reds that so vocally welcomed the protesters are not really local as far as voting is concerned.

[johndpoole]

"Reds might have shot themselves in the foot"......A wishful headline if I ever saw one.

I notice all the cluck-clucks and pretend political affronts to this Red Shirt democracy Movement Siam Square action.

"This is too much" is the supposed balanced opinions of reasonable people.

Who cares.

Those who pretend to be affronted by this action are the enemies of this democracy Movement anyway. They would be affronted by seeing a single Red Shirt at Disneyland.

Especially annoying are those those who pretend to be neutral but than launch into an anti-Red Shirt tirade, spouting all the regular arrogant PAD/Amataya line of reasoning

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

In any event, the Amataya govt. and their moneyed friends who are losing money at Siam Square, now need to show their true colors. They cannot afford to wait for Songkran to disperse the Red Shirt protesters for them.

Those who matter to this Democracy Movement are saying, "About time".

And remember folks, they are the vast electoral majority. The huge, huge number of protesters in BKK now, are merely representative of the vastly greater numbers in the country. No amount of bogus downplaying in the Amataya media of their significance by fabricating low turn-out numbers changes that.

JW2010, JonUSA ... why do you keep using different user names?

[khunjamespittman]

The news summaries are closed. That's good.

The problem is that over half The Nation postings are not news but opinions and insults.

Please moderators, tell The Nation to stop with the insults and opinions and just post news items. Start deleting the opinion and insult crap.

The idea was to get unfiltered news, not Nation propaganda.

I would appreciate some moderator assistance.

[jdinasia]

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

Complicitory and 47 Rai

Poleax? hmmmmmm oh well

edit to get the previous name's spelling correct

Edited April 4, 2010 by jdinasia

[animatic]

It would be an interesting scenario if the Red Shirt Brigade leadership were asked to publicise their projected government policies and indeed their grandiose plans to assist the less well off to rise from the depths of poverty to relative affluence.

This of course should be via a nationally networked all channels including cable systems televised programme so as people could indeed see the honest sincerity that the likes of Weng, Jutaporn ,Veera and their puppet master Thaksin may espouse regarding the liberation of the masses rather than the liberation of one person and their money.

This course of action would indeed show the public at large just what the political persuasion and presumed policies of the Red Shirt Brigade might be thus encouraging a vote either for or against the Red Brigade supporting party in any general election that may be held..

Of course the truth hurts and reality bites, that may indeed be the reason that there has to date as far as I am aware never been a solid statement policy from the Red Shirt Brigade apart from the regular ranting tirade to dissolve the current parliamentary administration.

Indeed''empty vessels make the most sound.''

Indeed.

They are not the political party, PTP is the party.

The Reds think they don't need a platform because they are the action wing,

not the running for government wing. So why bother with that, their job is to simply,

make the country come to a halt enough to crash the government.

Then their uber-leaders can deal with controlling up country campaigning and vote procurement.

And having a vision beyond bringing back the godhead savior Thaksin The Great, is all they think too.

If you have no need of a vision, no reason to pretend to have one....

[hammered]

Sudarat and Chalerm and other PTP Bangkokians wont be liking this right now.

There is also the problem of how to divvy up the sfae seats between sitting PTP MPs, wannabes and UDD leaders that will become interesting. Thaksin has already it seems made some promises for the next election that dont necessarily please all sitting PTP MPs. Still that ius a way off and will depend on the oreder of business today whether it comnes sooner or later. I noticed in Chonburi some huge PTP billboards just put up. They clearly arer readying for an election but....

[animatic]

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

Complicitory and 47 Rai

Poleax? hmmmmmm oh well

edit to get the previous name's spelling correct

Ditto.

Seems we have a squirmy Phi Kraisu quorum:

Permanent_Disaster, Ferwert, Rumford, Colpiyat

And assorted newbies or automated times boilerplate posts.

And the occasional Tablet of Tregedies picture grouping,

and of course distraction trolls.

One big harpy family...

[jdinasia]

The news summaries are closed. That's good.

The problem is that over half The Nation postings are not news but opinions and insults.

Please moderators, tell The Nation to stop with the insults and opinions and just post news items. Start deleting the opinion and insult crap.

The idea was to get unfiltered news, not Nation propaganda.

I would appreciate some moderator assistance.

One would assume that you are capable of figuring out what is opinion and what is fact (or presented as fact.)

You can read the tweets or just read the articles, those are your choices.

[chainarong]

So 100.000 republicans occupy times square NY protesting against Obama. You tell me they let them there because its a democracy. B..it they will be wacked out of the city if they don't go away. Time for Abhisit to act!

Yes this is the ironic thing. A lot of posters seem to think the Gov't should not intervene and that this would be allowed in the West. I say try this type of behavior or taking an airport in London or New York and you will first see police with tear gas and rubber bullets followed by military with real bullets. In many ways these open demonstrations illustrate just how democratic and undemocratic Thailand can be at the same time.

Beleive it or not , the law in Perth, Western Au states that any more than 4 people at a gathering, without written permission from the Commissioner of Police , is against the law and the police can take action , introduce in 1970 by then Premier called Sir Charles Court, after alot of hammering from the trade unions, which the prick hated, not that this stupid law has ever been acted on , but it's there all the same, just in case, never has been repealed. As for the whole lot of this sham protest, pull this crap on in any western city,yeah right. Thats my lot.

[khunjamespittman]

It would be an interesting scenario if the Red Shirt Brigade leadership were asked to publicise their projected government policies and indeed their grandiose plans to assist the less well off to rise from the depths of poverty to relative affluence.

This of course should be via a nationally networked all channels including cable systems televised programme so as people could indeed see the honest sincerity that the likes of Weng, Jutaporn ,Veera and their puppet master Thaksin may espouse regarding the liberation of the masses rather than the liberation of one person and their money.

This course of action would indeed show the public at large just what the political persuasion and presumed policies of the Red Shirt Brigade might be thus encouraging a vote either for or against the Red Brigade supporting party in any general election that may be held..

Of course the truth hurts and reality bites, that may indeed be the reason that there has to date as far as I am aware never been a solid statement policy from the Red Shirt Brigade apart from the regular ranting tirade to dissolve the current parliamentary administration.

Indeed''empty vessels make the most sound.''

Indeed.

They are not the political party, PTP is the party.

The Reds think they don't need a platform because they are the action wing,

not the running for government wing. So why bother with that, their job is to simply,

make the country come to a halt enough to crash the government.

Then their uber-leaders can deal with controlling up country campaigning and vote procurement.

And having a vision beyond bringing back the godhead savior Thaksin The Great, is all they think too.

If you have no need of a vision, no reason to pretend to have one....

Everyone understands your view. You made your point in the first paragraph. Why not try to be civil and stop there? Was the sarcasm and name calling really necessary? If anything, it was detrimental to your point of view.

[animatic]

.... Of course the truth hurts and reality bites, that may indeed be the reason that there has to date as far as I am aware never been a solid statement policy from the Red Shirt Brigade apart from the regular ranting tirade to dissolve the current parliamentary administration.

Indeed''empty vessels make the most sound.''

Indeed.

They are not the political party, PTP is the party.

The Reds think they don't need a platform because they are the action wing,

not the running for government wing. So why bother with that, their job is to simply,

make the country come to a halt enough to crash the government.

Then their uber-leaders can deal with controlling up country campaigning and vote procurement.

And having a vision beyond bringing back the godhead savior Thaksin The Great, is all they think too.

If you have no need of a vision, no reason to pretend to have one....

Everyone understands your view. You made your point in the first paragraph. Why not try to be civil and stop there? Was the sarcasm and name calling really necessary? If anything, it was detrimental to your point of view.

Seems you don't understand me, and again attempt your 'Voice of kindly reason' styled posting,

which is a shoot the messenger attack in a nicer form.

You have consistently be trying this tact the last week or so,

again to attempt to discredit those with opposing views.

Calling my view of the faux perception created around the Thaksin cult of personality

uncivilized is just a flame to diminish my message...

sorry Jimmy, that dog don't hunt.

Edited April 4, 2010 by animatic

[BigC]

yes the reds must do something for the public to get the people on there sides. like get all red taxi drivers to do a free taxi day. i dunno something like that

[connel707]

The Nation analysis "Bangkokians are upset against the stinking people of the country side who are happy" is wrong.

SOME Bangkokians are upset but more and more Bangkokians begin to stink red.

Even in Chatuchak area which is not poor, more and more people wear red in the sois.

An alternative analysis is to tell that now it's: "Bangkok city center" is upset against country side + Bangkok suburbs.

People of Bangkok on the whole....Hate the Reds.... Pass another Chang..

[OzMick]

Although all of the above comments are technically correct, they just don't apply. Bangkok is a world away for most Thais. the besieged areas represent a small part of bangkok. For the majority of Thais and Bangkok residents life has gone on with no disruption. If people do not feel the pain of such disruptions they will forget the events over time. Human nature at play I believe.

in respect to the negotiations, the reds didn't lose anything, but they did hold their own. They could be seen as negotiating equals to the government. There was no intent by the government to negotiate anything. Instead it was to show the government was listening and it acted to calm the political atmosphere. On that PM Abhisit was successful.

So far the government has handled this right. Better a few more days of patience than the mayhem, violence, death and property destruction that will come with an intervention.

Did you not see the number of bus services cancelled. If I had just lost a day's pay, then had to walk home in the heat, I might just be a liitle miffed.

[connel707]

I just saw a report that there are not many people in Ratchaprasong this morning. It sort of makes sense, as there is another aspect here of the reds shooting themselves in the foot.

Many of the reds on the street are paid to be there. I know they came through my soi asking for people to sign up for 500 baht/day last weekend, although nobody here admits to signing up. Once things reach a certain point, such as being arrested and facing a year in prison, the recruits that are paid by the reds will begin to wonder whether all this is really worth 500-1000 baht/day. Suddenly, it all becomes much less of a party and some easy money.

Just curious, bubba, since you have been here a long time, what is this issue about the demonstrators being paid? A lot of others in these forums have ranted about them being paid. Wouldn't you think that if money is their motivation, the PM would be smart enough to just pay them to go home and expose their lack of allegiance?

Yesterday I sat in Big C with a family of Red Shirts and they told me for dad to bring his pick-up, one other man, 3 ladies and 5 kids.. they were paid 8000 bahts, + a full tank of fuel and another on their return... They told me they did not give a dam_n about which ever government was in and the ladies said they quite liked Ahbisit, but a free weekend in Bangkok and cash.... Pass another Chang..

[hammered]

I just saw a report that there are not many people in Ratchaprasong this morning. It sort of makes sense, as there is another aspect here of the reds shooting themselves in the foot.

Many of the reds on the street are paid to be there. I know they came through my soi asking for people to sign up for 500 baht/day last weekend, although nobody here admits to signing up. Once things reach a certain point, such as being arrested and facing a year in prison, the recruits that are paid by the reds will begin to wonder whether all this is really worth 500-1000 baht/day. Suddenly, it all becomes much less of a party and some easy money.

Just curious, bubba, since you have been here a long time, what is this issue about the demonstrators being paid? A lot of others in these forums have ranted about them being paid. Wouldn't you think that if money is their motivation, the PM would be smart enough to just pay them to go home and expose their lack of allegiance?

Yesterday I sat in Big C with a family of Red Shirts and they told me for dad to bring his pick-up, one other man, 3 ladies and 5 kids.. they were paid 8000 bahts, + a full tank of fuel and another on their return... They told me they did not give a dam_n about which ever government was in and the ladies said they quite liked Ahbisit, but a free weekend in Bangkok and cash.... Pass another Chang..

I hope any people like that have the sense to move on out if a clearance comes. Today could get nasty.

[connel707]

"Reds might have shot themselves in the foot"......A wishful headline if I ever saw one.

I notice all the cluck-clucks and pretend political affronts to this Red Shirt democracy Movement Siam Square action.

"This is too much" is the supposed balanced opinions of reasonable people.

Who cares.

Those who pretend to be affronted by this action are the enemies of this democracy Movement anyway. They would be affronted by seeing a single Red Shirt at Disneyland.

Especially annoying are those those who pretend to be neutral but than launch into an anti-Red Shirt tirade, spouting all the regular arrogant PAD/Amataya line of reasoning

And then there are the poor Farangs/Ex-pats. They are so brainwashed by the Amataya media, they think they have insight. It is like the runner in last place, who thinks he is first.

In any event, the Amataya govt. and their moneyed friends who are losing money at Siam Square, now need to show their true colors. They cannot afford to wait for Songkran to disperse the Red Shirt protesters for them.

Those who matter to this Democracy Movement are saying, "About time".

And remember folks, they are the vast electoral majority. The huge, huge number of protesters in BKK now, are merely representative of the vastly greater numbers in the country. No amount of bogus downplaying in the Amataya media of their significance by fabricating low turn-out numbers changes that.

Now we know why marijuana is illegal..... Pass another Chang..!

[simmons9]

I just saw a report that there are not many people in Ratchaprasong this morning. It sort of makes sense, as there is another aspect here of the reds shooting themselves in the foot.

Many of the reds on the street are paid to be there. I know they came through my soi asking for people to sign up for 500 baht/day last weekend

[OzMick]

in respect to the negotiations, the reds didn't lose anything, but they did hold their own. They could be seen as negotiating equals to the government. There was no intent by the government to negotiate anything. Instead it was to show the government was listening and it acted to calm the political atmosphere. On that PM Abhisit was successful.

Correct me, but hasn't Aphisit agreed to shorten his mandate and hold election within 9 months? Isn't that "negotiation"? And how much did the Red Shirts move? From 15 days to ... er ... 15 days, which - by the way - have passed now.

So who exactly has no intent to negotiate?

you must understand that the reds can win with this position. If they keep demanding elections in 15 days for the next eight and a half months, they will have achieved their goal

[FreedomDude]

If I were going to attend the Red Shirt rally with the sole purpose of receiving a cash payment, I would simply show up to wherever the cash is being handed out or the wherever the checklis/id checker is making note, and then I would leave! I certainly wouldn't hang out in the blazing sun and chant and clap and yell and sweat! What, do you think someone is watching who's coming and going and noting "don't pay her" "pay him, he's been here all day" "that guy needs to stay here 2 more hours to get his cut".

The argument that these folks are out there to get a payment is not very well thought out. These folks are passionate about their cause. I wish them luck. Our family supports them.

No more coups and bullshit disqualification! (a cooking show, that's the best you can do???)