Foreigners Joining Red-Shirts Rally

[tharae]

My wife is originally from a village just outside one the North East cities under curfew. She rang her brother last night, who runs a small (vetry modest) convenience store outside of the village and does fence contracting, among other things. Hardly wealthy. He said that he, and most of the people in the village, detest what Thaksin and his followers have done to Thailand. They are all out wanting them to be routed.

So any suggestion that everyone from Issan blindly supports the Reds is blantantly incorrect.

[iciparis]

My wife is originally from a village just outside one the North East cities under curfew. She rang her brother last night, who runs a small (vetry modest) convenience store outside of the village and does fence contracting, among other things. Hardly wealthy. He said that he, and most of the people in the village, detest what Thaksin and his followers have done to Thailand. They are all out wanting them to be routed.

So any suggestion that everyone from Issan blindly supports the Reds is blantantly incorrect.

Couldn't agree more,

my family comes from Loei and were TRT before but now they spit on Thaksins foto every morning

[JatujakShopper]

Those stupid asses should stay the hel_l out of it!

[punkonater]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

[Flatouthruthefog]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

Correct. Since we all need a smile, let me report the very brief incident of 10 days ago in a Thai-run bar in Loi Kroh, Chiang Mai.

It was early evening and in came a young farang, sober, but in high spirits. He was wearing a red headband and had red ribbons dangling from his wrists.

After a few seconds of him dancing up and down and loudly proclaiming his support of all matters 'red', the woman bar owner felled him with one sharp right hander to the face.

"You aren't Thai and you don't know what you are talking about. Get out!" she yelled.

Happily for all, he did.

I don't think she is a yellow or a multi-colour or what. It doesn't matter. She was right.

[waterdog]

The dude is truly a Khwai in more ways than one.

[ramsesxix]

I'm not against foreigners being involved in this protest. What I do not like is IGNORANT people participating in events they are clueless about. It looks ridiculous. The picture of this foreigner and his "girlfriend" look like some vacation photo. He even admits he is is ill informed, yet he gets up on stage to speak in generalities about the importance of democracy without even knowing the context.

Like one who seizes a dog by the ears is a passer-by who meddles in a quarrel not his own

Edited May 17, 2010 by ramsesxix

[Hawkman]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

Correct. Since we all need a smile, let me report the very brief incident of 10 days ago in a Thai-run bar in Loi Kroh, Chiang Mai.

It was early evening and in came a young farang, sober, but in high spirits. He was wearing a red headband and had red ribbons dangling from his wrists.

After a few seconds of him dancing up and down and loudly proclaiming his support of all matters 'red', the woman bar owner felled him with one sharp right hander to the face.

"You aren't Thai and you don't know what you are talking about. Get out!" she yelled.

Happily for all, he did.

I don't think she is a yellow or a multi-colour or what. It doesn't matter. She was right.

Interesting story and though I'm no fan of violence; it really is embarrassing when you see farang trying to be 'red'; it's so contrived. I probably would have wanted to hit him too.

TBH most farang know it's not theirs to get involved; but you will always get some loser in Khoa San who wants to be more 'Thai' and will proudly show off his red allegience by buying a pro-red shirt without knowing the politics etc. Really embarrassing and cringeworthy.

Wish bar tenders would thump more farang to be honest, starting with, any farang who goes into a bar after buying a hat from one of the Hill Tribe ladies and think that they're unique and funny and any farang who is topless in a bar; get a life and show some respect.

[bkksteviejai]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

Correct. Since we all need a smile, let me report the very brief incident of 10 days ago in a Thai-run bar in Loi Kroh, Chiang Mai.

It was early evening and in came a young farang, sober, but in high spirits. He was wearing a red headband and had red ribbons dangling from his wrists.

After a few seconds of him dancing up and down and loudly proclaiming his support of all matters 'red', the woman bar owner felled him with one sharp right hander to the face.

"You aren't Thai and you don't know what you are talking about. Get out!" she yelled.

Happily for all, he did.

I don't think she is a yellow or a multi-colour or what. It doesn't matter. She was right.

....like it......

[bkksteviejai]

My friends from the UK were telling me about some guy from London who joined the Reds fighting the army and was boasting about it on the UK news.

What a complete d**k; this has nothing to do with him. That kind of stuff could have a knock on affect for those that live here. Anyone who could stick up for that kind of idiot, needs to have their head sorted.

As people often say, they is nothing more irritating than a farang who thinks they are 'Thai'.

Yep I saw him on the news, resplendent in red headband. Embarrasing for any Londoner.

Incidentally what would the traits of a "farang thinking they are Thai"....???

[themonk]

I am an expat living in BKK at the benevolence of the Thai government, as all farangs are. I, too have opinions regarding the situation but I share them only with a few friends. I have been here a while and I don't pretend to understand Thai politics. I do, however, know a bit about the difference between protesting and rioting. Burning buildings, hurling Molotov cocktails, looting stores, and beating people half to death surpasses protesting and enters the realm of riot/mob mentality. I love this country and hope that this madness will come to an end soon. It is destroying the image of Thailand as a tourist destination and an area in which to invest to all foreigners. We may take years to recover from this.

[Forethat]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

Correct. Since we all need a smile, let me report the very brief incident of 10 days ago in a Thai-run bar in Loi Kroh, Chiang Mai.

It was early evening and in came a young farang, sober, but in high spirits. He was wearing a red headband and had red ribbons dangling from his wrists.

After a few seconds of him dancing up and down and loudly proclaiming his support of all matters 'red', the woman bar owner felled him with one sharp right hander to the face.

"You aren't Thai and you don't know what you are talking about. Get out!" she yelled.

Happily for all, he did.

I don't think she is a yellow or a multi-colour or what. It doesn't matter. She was right.

....like it......

Hear hear!!!!

[cunegonde]

I guess you already bought a one way ticket Phuket-Bangkok? Feel free to do so, but don't patronize and insult foreigners here who like me fail to see things like you do or don't wish to participate physically in a struggle which is not theirs. My forefathers fought for their freedom and democracy in their OWN country. I may remind you that the yellow shirt movement when they were protesting on the streets also claimed to fight for democracy and freedom against a corrupt government. It would make a nice cartoon to see the foreign redshirts fighting in the streets against foreign yellow shirts. It is already quite ridiculous on this forum....

Well, my fathers also died as they tried to help Spanish to fight against the dictator Franco. Though it did not bring to success, the actions of those Europeans who left their confortable lives in their country to die in Spain are seen, still today, as heroes.

And in any democratic country, a foreigner, even without citizenship, is allowed to speak his opinion in public. What I read in this blog equals the words of any extremist or xenophobist party from France or elsewhere. Foreigners who live in Thailand for long, work here, pay taxes here, sometimes with a Thai child, have a right to take part in what happens in a country they feel is also a bit their home.

I have always been fighting so that foreigners who live in my own country, France, some of the thais there, can be involved in a political life which affect them in their everyday life. Why should I plead otherwise here?

But, the more I read those blogs here, the more I am horrified of the hatred and the extremism of many comments that are made, and generaly against the red shirts' cause. I have read somewhere on a Nation blog of red shirts being called "cockroaches" among other names, and people enjoying at the thought of dead red protesters. Now, the insults go to foreigners.

I am very, very worried for Thailand after reading all this, knowing that some people are having such thoughts and do not feel any shame in expressing them. I have been worried for France after some hatred comments also started to be expressed without restraint, but I must say France is luckily still very far from anything like here.

And I am not a idiot farang, I am educated and I speak sufficient Thai to make interviews with villagers and talk with them about the current political situation. As for knowledge in Thai politics, many lectures at Thammasat University on the subject + readings should do.

If I was not so cowardly scared for my life and my baby, I would join the red mob. Not out of "ignorance", as I have no illusion on the greediness of some, the opportunism of others, and the violence of a few of the protesters. I would join because the majority of the people there are calling for democracy and social justice, and, from what I read in all those posts, even if their knowledge of what democracy is remains insufficient, it is still above the standard of most of those supposed "educated" thais or others who post here.

[ramirez]

Live examples of this 'species' we are talking about in this thread can be found on --> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ratchaprason...04318842?ref=ts

[Forethat]

Well, my fathers also died as they tried to help Spanish to fight against the dictator Franco. Though it did not bring to success, the actions of those Europeans who left their confortable lives in their country to die in Spain are seen, still today, as heroes.

And in any democratic country, a foreigner, even without citizenship, is allowed to speak his opinion in public. What I read in this blog equals the words of any extremist or xenophobist party from France or elsewhere. Foreigners who live in Thailand for long, work here, pay taxes here, sometimes with a Thai child, have a right to take part in what happens in a country they feel is also a bit their home.

I have always been fighting so that foreigners who live in my own country, France, some of the thais there, can be involved in a political life which affect them in their everyday life. Why should I plead otherwise here?

But, the more I read those blogs here, the more I am horrified of the hatred and the extremism of many comments that are made, and generaly against the red shirts' cause. I have read somewhere on a Nation blog of red shirts being called "cockroaches" among other names, and people enjoying at the thought of dead red protesters. Now, the insults go to foreigners.

I am very, very worried for Thailand after reading all this, knowing that some people are having such thoughts and do not feel any shame in expressing them. I have been worried for France after some hatred comments also started to be expressed without restraint, but I must say France is luckily still very far from anything like here.

And I am not a idiot farang, I am educated and I speak sufficient Thai to make interviews with villagers and talk with them about the current political situation. As for knowledge in Thai politics, many lectures at Thammasat University on the subject + readings should do.

If I was not so cowardly scared for my life and my baby, I would join the red mob. Not out of "ignorance", as I have no illusion on the greediness of some, the opportunism of others, and the violence of a few of the protesters. I would join because the majority of the people there are calling for democracy and social justice, and, from what I read in all those posts, even if their knowledge of what democracy is remains insufficient, it is still above the standard of most of those supposed "educated" thais or others who post here.

\

A good example of what can happen when you rape your cedit card due to a Singha sale at the local Big C!!!

[Mauric42]

Well, my fathers also died as they tried to help Spanish to fight against the dictator Franco. Though it did not bring to success, the actions of those Europeans who left their confortable lives in their country to die in Spain are seen, still today, as heroes.

And in any democratic country, a foreigner, even without citizenship, is allowed to speak his opinion in public. What I read in this blog equals the words of any extremist or xenophobist party from France or elsewhere. Foreigners who live in Thailand for long, work here, pay taxes here, sometimes with a Thai child, have a right to take part in what happens in a country they feel is also a bit their home.

I have always been fighting so that foreigners who live in my own country, France, some of the thais there, can be involved in a political life which affect them in their everyday life. Why should I plead otherwise here?

But, the more I read those blogs here, the more I am horrified of the hatred and the extremism of many comments that are made, and generaly against the red shirts' cause. I have read somewhere on a Nation blog of red shirts being called "cockroaches" among other names, and people enjoying at the thought of dead red protesters. Now, the insults go to foreigners.

I am very, very worried for Thailand after reading all this, knowing that some people are having such thoughts and do not feel any shame in expressing them. I have been worried for France after some hatred comments also started to be expressed without restraint, but I must say France is luckily still very far from anything like here.

And I am not a idiot farang, I am educated and I speak sufficient Thai to make interviews with villagers and talk with them about the current political situation. As for knowledge in Thai politics, many lectures at Thammasat University on the subject + readings should do.

If I was not so cowardly scared for my life and my baby, I would join the red mob. Not out of "ignorance", as I have no illusion on the greediness of some, the opportunism of others, and the violence of a few of the protesters. I would join because the majority of the people there are calling for democracy and social justice, and, from what I read in all those posts, even if their knowledge of what democracy is remains insufficient, it is still above the standard of most of those supposed "educated" thais or others who post here.

\

A good example of what can happen when you rape your cedit card due to a Singha sale at the local Big C!!!

What is the last silly comment meant to mean: "rape your cedit card due to a Singha sale". Mindless abuse following a thoughtful piece by cunegonde. Thank you Mr cunegonde, and I agree with what you say. Interesting comparison with Franco and the Spanish civil war.

In our countries in the west we had to fight against wealthy elites in order to gain democracy. The reds are doing something like that, I reckon, in the very different circumstances of Thailand today. This country has to change. The elites, represented by smooth western-educated Abhisit along with the amataya, are running everything and treating the poor Thai people as near-slaves. Of course, most of the farangs who comment on this board are elites themselves -- wealthy and privileged and having a lovely time thanks to the underpaid Thais who serve them. (Okay, I'm an 'elite' too: well educated and professional career, but with some social conscience too). That is why most farangs support Abhisit and are so dismissive, contemptuous and rude about the reds. But not me. I tell you this: I feel a groundswell in this country, just beginning maybe, to change things. Maybe the reds won't win this year, but their time will come. At least I hope so.

[whybother]

Well, my fathers also died as they tried to help Spanish to fight against the dictator Franco. Though it did not bring to success, the actions of those Europeans who left their confortable lives in their country to die in Spain are seen, still today, as heroes.

And in any democratic country, a foreigner, even without citizenship, is allowed to speak his opinion in public. What I read in this blog equals the words of any extremist or xenophobist party from France or elsewhere. Foreigners who live in Thailand for long, work here, pay taxes here, sometimes with a Thai child, have a right to take part in what happens in a country they feel is also a bit their home.

I have always been fighting so that foreigners who live in my own country, France, some of the thais there, can be involved in a political life which affect them in their everyday life. Why should I plead otherwise here?

But, the more I read those blogs here, the more I am horrified of the hatred and the extremism of many comments that are made, and generaly against the red shirts' cause. I have read somewhere on a Nation blog of red shirts being called "cockroaches" among other names, and people enjoying at the thought of dead red protesters. Now, the insults go to foreigners.

I am very, very worried for Thailand after reading all this, knowing that some people are having such thoughts and do not feel any shame in expressing them. I have been worried for France after some hatred comments also started to be expressed without restraint, but I must say France is luckily still very far from anything like here.

And I am not a idiot farang, I am educated and I speak sufficient Thai to make interviews with villagers and talk with them about the current political situation. As for knowledge in Thai politics, many lectures at Thammasat University on the subject + readings should do.

If I was not so cowardly scared for my life and my baby, I would join the red mob. Not out of "ignorance", as I have no illusion on the greediness of some, the opportunism of others, and the violence of a few of the protesters. I would join because the majority of the people there are calling for democracy and social justice, and, from what I read in all those posts, even if their knowledge of what democracy is remains insufficient, it is still above the standard of most of those supposed "educated" thais or others who post here.

\

A good example of what can happen when you rape your cedit card due to a Singha sale at the local Big C!!!

What is the last silly comment meant to mean: "rape your cedit card due to a Singha sale". Mindless abuse following a thoughtful piece by cunegonde. Thank you Mr cunegonde, and I agree with what you say. Interesting comparison with Franco and the Spanish civil war.

In our countries in the west we had to fight against wealthy elites in order to gain democracy. The reds are doing something like that, I reckon, in the very different circumstances of Thailand today. This country has to change. The elites, represented by smooth western-educated Abhisit along with the amataya, are running everything and treating the poor Thai people as near-slaves. Of course, most of the farangs who comment on this board are elites themselves -- wealthy and privileged and having a lovely time thanks to the underpaid Thais who serve them. (Okay, I'm an 'elite' too: well educated and professional career, but with some social conscience too). That is why most farangs support Abhisit and are so dismissive, contemptuous and rude about the reds. But not me. I tell you this: I feel a groundswell in this country, just beginning maybe, to change things. Maybe the reds won't win this year, but their time will come. At least I hope so.

I think what you are missing is that this protest isn't about the poor. It's about power.

The red leaders don't have plans to help the poor. The Thaksin government didn't do anything for the long term future of the poor. He was PM during a booming global economy which helped produce prices. Thaksin gave cash handouts, or put the poor further into to debt with easy credit. His health policy was unfunded, which means the poor got access to health services, but generally the service was pretty much non-existent. Other than that, Thaksin changed laws to make himself richer. All the PPP did while in government was to try and whitewash Thaksin's crimes.

edit: but I have no idea what 'Forethat' is on about.

Edited May 17, 2010 by whybother

[Mauric42]

Right.. I haven't read the whole thread.

As a farang that's lived in Thailand for 13 years, I honestly think that the farangs that join in the protests should be deported. It's not a good idea to get mixed up in the politics of a country of which you aren't a citizen. Unless you're a Thai citizen, it isn't your place.

Correct. Since we all need a smile, let me report the very brief incident of 10 days ago in a Thai-run bar in Loi Kroh, Chiang Mai.

It was early evening and in came a young farang, sober, but in high spirits. He was wearing a red headband and had red ribbons dangling from his wrists.

After a few seconds of him dancing up and down and loudly proclaiming his support of all matters 'red', the woman bar owner felled him with one sharp right hander to the face.

"You aren't Thai and you don't know what you are talking about. Get out!" she yelled.

Happily for all, he did.

I don't think she is a yellow or a multi-colour or what. It doesn't matter. She was right.

So a pimp-lady in a brothel-bar in the most disreputable area of Chiang Mai punches a completely innocent farang customer because he was a red supporter. Don't you feel that you could have found a more respectable example of an anti-red person? A teacher, office-worker, something like that. What will you tell us next? That red-supporting farangs are being slapped by gangs of anti-red pickpocket ladyboys? "And they were right!" you'll say, I expect.

[dman961]

This is Thais' politic, STAY OUT OF IT.

We DO NOT need any interference (pro or against).

Yeh, heard that before. Until thoasands get killed and there's nothing more you can do but ask the UN to help you. Don't push away any support you can get. Lot's of foriegners live here and come here for holidays, and also support your cause after seeing and hearing...

OH, MAYBE YOUR RIGHT, WHY BOTHER??? let's just pull out all the media coverage your getting, all the help and caring coverage, lets jut leave you to get on with it eh???? Idiot!!

THIS IS OUR HOME TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 17, 2010 by dman961

[ericthai]

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

is a rally calling for violence called peaceful assembly?

If the police have a problem with anything anyone has said at the many rallies around town, they have a right to interview that person. But, it is fascistic to shut down the protests of hundreds of thousands and censor the internet and TV. Same on this website; it is fine for moderators to ban pro-Red posters who violate forum rules, but to ban all pro-Red posts would be wrong.

The problem is, this is no longer a peaceful protest, bombs have been set off, buses set on fire, army trucks seized and set on fire, police shot and killed and now a soldier pulled from a truck and shot. Abhisit has tried to negotiate with them, offered new elections in Nov, offered dissolution of the house, let the deputy PM surrender and it is never enough, each time the reds come up with something else they want. it's been too long, too many in the Reds just want a fight, yes some are there protesting peacefully, but some are not and taking bangkok hostage can not be allowed, as the old saying goes it only takes one bad apple, it seems the reds have more than one and this is the problem. ( I dont see where the TV is being censored, I see CNN showing the REDS and the army and the Thai TV channels are doing fair coverage too, I guess you dont remember or was not here when Taksin as PM, the papers were under his control as was the news stations)

[gougouluxembourg]

Well, my fathers also died as they tried to help Spanish to fight against the dictator Franco. Though it did not bring to success, the actions of those Europeans who left their confortable lives in their country to die in Spain are seen, still today, as heroes.

And in any democratic country, a foreigner, even without citizenship, is allowed to speak his opinion in public. What I read in this blog equals the words of any extremist or xenophobist party from France or elsewhere. Foreigners who live in Thailand for long, work here, pay taxes here, sometimes with a Thai child, have a right to take part in what happens in a country they feel is also a bit their home.

I have always been fighting so that foreigners who live in my own country, France, some of the thais there, can be involved in a political life which affect them in their everyday life. Why should I plead otherwise here?

But, the more I read those blogs here, the more I am horrified of the hatred and the extremism of many comments that are made, and generaly against the red shirts' cause. I have read somewhere on a Nation blog of red shirts being called "cockroaches" among other names, and people enjoying at the thought of dead red protesters. Now, the insults go to foreigners.

I am very, very worried for Thailand after reading all this, knowing that some people are having such thoughts and do not feel any shame in expressing them. I have been worried for France after some hatred comments also started to be expressed without restraint, but I must say France is luckily still very far from anything like here.

And I am not a idiot farang, I am educated and I speak sufficient Thai to make interviews with villagers and talk with them about the current political situation. As for knowledge in Thai politics, many lectures at Thammasat University on the subject + readings should do.

If I was not so cowardly scared for my life and my baby, I would join the red mob. Not out of "ignorance", as I have no illusion on the greediness of some, the opportunism of others, and the violence of a few of the protesters. I would join because the majority of the people there are calling for democracy and social justice, and, from what I read in all those posts, even if their knowledge of what democracy is remains insufficient, it is still above the standard of most of those supposed "educated" thais or others who post here.

You are at least 72 Years old ? Only a Question as your Fathers died in the spanisch civil war. Sorry to hear. And kind regards to the little baby Baby.

Peut-être le grand-père

Gougouluxembourg

Edited May 17, 2010 by gougouluxembourg

[kevozman1]

Why are people posting that foreign people should not join the red

shirt demostrators. Surely its up to the individual if they are adults.

Saying that personally I would never join them as....... well..........

I just do do not really care enough about Thai people or their

politics.

[JohnLeech]

......... MP's can cross the floor at any time and change the government

Same in England and Australia

Gee I hope this is the last time we have to say this

I hope so too, because it is totally incorrect.

Thailand's system of government has no more than a superficial resemblance to the "Westminster" system of the UK and Australia.

In the UK and Australia if sufficient MPs "cross the floor" and vote down a major bill, such as the budget which is not open to a free vote, this equates to a vote of no confidence in the government and the PM has no option according to convention and/or constituton other than to call for fresh elections and to dissolve the house. Under no circumstances does the opposition simply take over government because they can form a majority; if the PM is stubborn enough to refuse to resign and call for elections then the head of state is empowered to replace him (as in the Australian constitutional crisis of 1975 with Gough Whitlam and Sir John Kerr).

In Thailand if there is a successful vote of no confidence in the government then the PM is required to resign and fresh elections have to be held - this has never happened to any Thai government, although some PMs resigned just in time to avoid it. If there is no such formal vote, however, and a group of MPs (such as Newin Chidchob's faction) switch their allegiance then there is no specific requirement for new elections or for a new PM; whenever this has happened previously the PM has resigned, resulting in fresh elections. If at the same time, however, there is no PM as he has been removed (for example by a Constitutional Court ruling as happened to Abhisit's predecessors, Samak and Somchai - the only Thai PMs to have lost their posts in this way) then (and only then) the House can take a vote on a new PM and form a new government without fresh elections being held. Abhisit's is the first government to be formed in Thailand by this loophole in the constitution.

Gee, I hope this is the last of the dreaded "factoids" - but I doubt it!

(The only previous time that a PM has been elected by the House without a general election, a coup or a resignation was when Field Marshal Thanom was elected after Field Marsal Sarit died in office in 1963.)

[Tony Clifton]

Why are people posting that foreign people should not join the red

shirt demostrators. Surely its up to the individual if they are adults.

Saying that personally I would never join them as....... well..........

I just do do not really care enough about Thai people or their

politics.

Madness.

Remember the two farangs beaten by 30 or so Thai men in BKK just some years ago, ambulanced to a hospital afterwards where the same group followed only to beat them up again?

That was in time of peace and a soaring tourist economy... It`s usually not recommended to fight a Thai man as more will join, defending yourself can be seen as fighting, don`t forget that.

Now, during this time of war, if civilians can look their own country`s awestruck soldiers in the eye, pull them out of an army truck and then put a bullet in their heads, as a foreigner, you may find yourself truly f*cked if a similar situation arises around you and a violence frenzy catches on, and there`s no one left to beat up or tap bullets into or you take a picture of someone you shouldn`t... If only one of them turns on you in anger , you better hope there`s a heroic paramedic in orange uniform around to haul your ass out like happened the other day with that army truck.

Not a place for foreigners to intervene anymore, that Canadian journalist had no idea what he was getting into, total stupidity.

<deleted> most journalists who cover this anyway, 95% of their useless impartial foreign tv reports aren`t worth an ounce of the diarrhoea they get once here, only helping in spreading doubt around the world that maybe after all the reds and Thaksin aren`t so bad after all when all this is is clearly one giant and personal one-way mudslinging match for Thaksin on Abhisit and a personal revenge for getting busted.

Most of what I see so far from BBC CBC Radio Canada, CNN and other western media has no balls to truly tell you what the reds and Thaksin really are.

I got sick of that a while ago and am working on a documentary about the life of Thaksin Shinawatra.

Will be available for free to download at just about any video dump site out there.

You`ll like it! He won`t.

[Rinrada]

Getting reports of Cambodians being hired by the local TG army Job Centre Plus. ....

suppose they must be considered better trained soldiers ...or mabe just....... CHEAPER.....

[Robby nz]

[

name='JohnLeech' date='2010-05-18 01:32:16' post='3612548'

name='ozzieman05' post='3606224' date='2010-05-16 16:44:34'......... MP's can cross the floor at any time and change the government

Same in England and Australia

Gee I hope this is the last time we have to say this

I hope so too, because it is totally incorrect.

Thailand's system of government has no more than a superficial resemblance to the "Westminster" system of the UK and Australia.

In the UK and Australia if sufficient MPs "cross the floor" and vote down a major bill, such as the budget which is not open to a free vote, this equates to a vote of no confidence in the government and the PM has no option according to convention and/or constituton other than to call for fresh elections and to dissolve the house. Under no circumstances does the opposition simply take over government because they can form a majority; if the PM is stubborn enough to refuse to resign and call for elections then the head of state is empowered to replace him (as in the Australian constitutional crisis of 1975 with Gough Whitlam and Sir John Kerr).

In Thailand if there is a successful vote of no confidence in the government then the PM is required to resign and fresh elections have to be held - this has never happened to any Thai government, although some PMs resigned just in time to avoid it. If there is no such formal vote, however, and a group of MPs (such as Newin Chidchob's faction) switch their allegiance then there is no specific requirement for new elections or for a new PM; whenever this has happened previously the PM has resigned, resulting in fresh elections. If at the same time, however, there is no PM as he has been removed (for example by a Constitutional Court ruling as happened to Abhisit's predecessors, Samak and Somchai - the only Thai PMs to have lost their posts in this way) then (and only then) the House can take a vote on a new PM and form a new government without fresh elections being held. Abhisit's is the first government to be formed in Thailand by this loophole in the constitution.

Gee, I hope this is the last of the dreaded "factoids" - but I doubt it!

(The only previous time that a PM has been elected by the House without a general election, a coup or a resignation was when Field Marshal Thanom was elected after Field Marsal Sarit died in office in 1963.)

Emmmm... something not right here?

[Roadman]

Why are people posting that foreign people should not join the red

shirt demostrators. Surely its up to the individual if they are adults.

Saying that personally I would never join them as....... well..........

I just do do not really care enough about Thai people or their

politics.

Madness.

Remember the two farangs beaten by 30 or so Thai men in BKK just some years ago, ambulanced to a hospital afterwards where the same group followed only to beat them up again?

That was in time of peace and a soaring tourist economy... It`s usually not recommended to fight a Thai man as more will join, defending yourself can be seen as fighting, don`t forget that.

Now, during this time of war, if civilians can look their own country`s awestruck soldiers in the eye, pull them out of an army truck and then put a bullet in their heads, as a foreigner, you may find yourself truly f*cked if a similar situation arises around you and a violence frenzy catches on, and there`s no one left to beat up or tap bullets into or you take a picture of someone you shouldn`t... If only one of them turns on you in anger , you better hope there`s a heroic paramedic in orange uniform around to haul your ass out like happened the other day with that army truck.

Not a place for foreigners to intervene anymore, that Canadian journalist had no idea what he was getting into, total stupidity.

<deleted> most journalists who cover this anyway, 95% of their useless impartial foreign tv reports aren`t worth an ounce of the diarrhoea they get once here, only helping in spreading doubt around the world that maybe after all the reds and Thaksin aren`t so bad after all when all this is is clearly one giant and personal one-way mudslinging match for Thaksin on Abhisit and a personal revenge for getting busted.

Most of what I see so far from BBC CBC Radio Canada, CNN and other western media has no balls to truly tell you what the reds and Thaksin really are.

I got sick of that a while ago and am working on a documentary about the life of Thaksin Shinawatra.

Will be available for free to download at just about any video dump site out there.

You`ll like it! He won`t.

Copied from above.

Most of what I see so far from BBC CBC Radio Canada, CNN and other western media has no balls to truly tell you what the reds and Thaksin really are.

Agree. But a slight change with BBC. This morning seen an interview with (missed the first part so not sure who) what I think was a Pom or Yank Army intelligence officer where they finally got past the Red "protesters" (read protesters and thugs and goons) and dug into the real guts of the issue - the thieveing scum bag Thaksin and his mob and his quest for supreme power. Finally.

[KKvampire]

China is diverse and stable ,I Live there not full of P*** Head foul mouthed falang

[Ulysses G.]

Getting reports of Cambodians being hired by the local TG army Job Centre Plus. ....

suppose they must be considered better trained soldiers ...or mabe just....... CHEAPER.....

If it is true, it is because they do not object to killing Thais. Many Thai soldiers have family members that support the redshirts.

[cunegonde]

I think what you are missing is that this protest isn't about the poor. It's about power.

The red leaders don't have plans to help the poor. The Thaksin government didn't do anything for the long term future of the poor. He was PM during a booming global economy which helped produce prices. Thaksin gave cash handouts, or put the poor further into to debt with easy credit. His health policy was unfunded, which means the poor got access to health services, but generally the service was pretty much non-existent. Other than that, Thaksin changed laws to make himself richer. All the PPP did while in government was to try and whitewash Thaksin's crimes.

edit: but I have no idea what 'Forethat' is on about.

Well, leaders of democratic political parties never really care in their heart about the poors of their countries. They nevertheless have to do as if they cared and make some policies in this direction when they are elected, because otherwise they would loose next round of elections. This is how the check and balance system of a democracy works, and this is why democracy, with power sanctions through people's vote, is the only way to bind country leaders to their public's interest.

This is what almost happened in Thailand. One leader who did not care about the poors understood that doing a few things for them would help him to be re-elected under the democratic constitution of the time. And it worked.

And yes, when a leader try to step over a constitution, a constitutional court is here to stop them, and when leaders step over the law, they are judged as soon as the immunity that goes with their function disappear. I completely agree on that. But the deep part of the debate is not here : I think that if you made a referendum in Thailand as to whether Thaksin should be judged by a fair court for all he has done wrong, you would get a near consensus on a "yes".

So yes, some of the leaders of the red shirts are here only for power, that's for sure. They opportunisticly saw a breach were they could step in -but they are some real militant people among the leaders, those who already risked their lives in the past to fight for democracy. Anyway it doesn't change the trick : many of the Thais have suddenly understood their own power through vote. And those who lead them, once in charge, will have to bend their head toward them, or otherwise to loose next election.

Many said that the red shirts do not really understand what democracy is, apart from the "propaganda" they have been fed with. But I have been in villages and talked with red shirt supporters there. They told me with good humour ''We might even vote for Abhisit or his party in the future if democracy is restaured. If our leaders are elected, but then disappoint us, then maybe next election we will vote for the democrats. But now, what we are asking, is that they give a chance for our vote".

I have talked with more than 200 villagers. What I saw is very far from the description made by some anti-protesters. Village people are people like everywhere else. Some of them have hard time making a reasoning, some of them are greedy, some of them are just normal people who go on with their lives and do not ask themselves too much questions, some of them are very smart and aware regardless of their education levels, some of them are friendly and open-minded. I didn't see any specific handicap there that would make rural folks unable of thinking by their own.

What I felt was a handicap though was the general indifference on politics from a huge part of the thai elite youth that I met at the university, and Thais complete ignorance of some of the recent Thai history, mainly because the official version of some of the facts has overshadowed the truth.

Once more, Thailand is in a need of a real and deep dialogue between the different opinions of what Thailand must be. As soon as votes are not respected, such debate cannot take place. This is why the red shirts came to Bangkok in the first place. They came because they had something to say, and they couldn't find any other way to be heard, as votes had been denied to them. And violence errupted because the people in charge of this country do not want this message to be spoken loud.

So yes, some are among the red shirts for power. Some are also here because, as for a music festival, public gathering always bring to them crowd-lovers and violent souls. But most of them are there to carry a message, and I don't see how their movement can be stopped if noone ever stops to hear and respect it.

Thailand needs a real check and balance system, fit to its own cultures and values. This imply people's vote, freedom of expression and opinion, free medias, and a real counter-power through efficient constitution enforcement. I was in Thailand in 2005, and Thailand was much closer to such a thing that it is now, that's for sure.