How To Get Visa? - Have A Thai Son

[Igaar]

Hi there - I've been living in Thailand for almost a year. First I had a 6 months tourist visa (had to leave the country every 2 months) - and after that I got an education visa by studying thai - I'm currently in Thailand on this visa. I don't want to study thai any longer (had private lessons every day up until now and can understand a lot, talk some and read a bit). My education visa expires in about a month, but I would like to stay. I had a son 20 days ago (Thai Citizen) and want to stay in Thailand. His mother is my girlfriend - we are living together but are not married. I am on the birth certificate being the father. I don't have 400.000 bath in a thai bank account at the moment, but I could transfer them from abroad if needed. I'm 23 years old, happy and healthy - living in Phuket. What are my options?

Thanks a lot.

[Mario2008]

Firtly congratulations.

Based on the birthcertificate you can get a 60 day extension form immigration if you show up with the child and mother and birt certificate. However, getting a 1 year extension of stay might not be possible, as currently you are not the legal father of the child. For that you have to marry the mother OR go to court with the mother and ask to be recognised as the legal father.

Once you are the legal father you can apply for the 1 year extension of stay from immigration if you show an income of 40,000 a month OR 400,000 in the bank for 2 months.

Till than you can get a non-O visa, and perhaps even a multiple non-O visa if you can show 100,000 in the bank in Kuala Lumpur. You would also need the childs birth certificate, a copy of the mothers ID, copy of mothers house registration and a note from her asking for a visa for you. The multiple non-O is not sure. If you want to be sure, go to perth in Australia.

[oceano]

Firtly congratulations.

Based on the birthcertificate you can get a 60 day extension form immigration if you show up with the child and mother and birt certificate. However, getting a 1 year extension of stay might not be possible, as currently you are not the legal father of the child. For that you have to marry the mother OR go to court with the mother and ask to be recognised as the legal father.

Once you are the legal father you can apply for the 1 year extension of stay from immigration if you show an income of 40,000 a month OR 400,000 in the bank for 2 months.

Till than you can get a non-O visa, and perhaps even a multiple non-O visa if you can show 100,000 in the bank in Kuala Lumpur. You would also need the childs birth certificate, a copy of the mothers ID, copy of mothers house registration and a note from her asking for a visa for you. The multiple non-O is not sure. If you want to be sure, go to perth in Australia.

Sorry for ask more, i have the same situation, i never read about to be " married" for to be a legal Father.

Are you sure?

I mean the birth certificate is a legal document, in that there is my name and the name of my son is my family name not the name of the mother.....so him have my family name and is my legal son.

Can you explain to me why must be married...im cofused.

Then i have tourist visa and i want make the Non o on child support based, as you said, i understand that i dont need to apply that, only i need to go in the immigration office for make an extension based on child support, sorry but i dont understand how i can make an extension for that if i dont have an O visa.

Thank you

Roberto.

[PoorSucker]

Sorry for ask more, i have the same situation, i never read about to be " married" for to be a legal Father.

Are you sure?

I mean the birth certificate is a legal document, in that there is my name and the name of my son is my family name not the name of the mother.....so him have my family name and is my legal son.

Can you explain to me why must be married...im cofused.

Then i have tourist visa and i want make the Non o on child support based, as you said, i understand that i dont need to apply that, only i need to go in the immigration office for make an extension based on child support, sorry but i dont understand how i can make an extension for that if i dont have an O visa.

Thank you

Roberto.

If you are not married you don't have custody for your child.

You need custody shared or single for your child to get the extension based on child support.

You need to go to court to get custody.

[oceano]

Firtly congratulations.

Based on the birthcertificate you can get a 60 day extension form immigration if you show up with the child and mother and birt certificate. However, getting a 1 year extension of stay might not be possible, as currently you are not the legal father of the child. For that you have to marry the mother OR go to court with the mother and ask to be recognised as the legal father.

Once you are the legal father you can apply for the 1 year extension of stay from immigration if you show an income of 40,000 a month OR 400,000 in the bank for 2 months.

Till than you can get a non-O visa, and perhaps even a multiple non-O visa if you can show 100,000 in the bank in Kuala Lumpur. You would also need the childs birth certificate, a copy of the mothers ID, copy of mothers house registration and a note from her asking for a visa for you. The multiple non-O is not sure. If you want to be sure, go to perth in Australia.

Sorry for ask more, i have the same situation, i never read about to be " married" for to be a legal Father.

Are you sure?

I mean the birth certificate is a legal document, in that there is my name and the name of my son is my family name not the name of the mother.....so him have my family name and is my legal son.

Can you explain to me why must be married...im cofused.

Then i have tourist visa and i want make the Non o on child support based, as you said, i understand that i dont need to apply that, only i need to go in the immigration office for make an extension based on child support, sorry but i dont understand how i can make an extension for that if i dont have an O visa.

Thank you

Roberto.

Based on this( can be old i dont know) 2.18 In the case of a family

member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child

of his/her spouse):

Permission will be

granted for a period of

not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) Confirmation of employment given by a hotel or company

engaged in the entertainment business in Thailand with a

registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, full paid-up

[oceano]

If you are not married you don't have custody for your child.

You need custody shared or single for your child to get the extension based on child support.

You need to go to court to get custody.

If is in my passport...yes is in my custody, is registered in the AIRE Italian register for resident in foreign country like Italian citizen.

Last question, this for the extension, is the same for have the visa?

[oceano]

If you are not married you don't have custody for your child.

You need custody shared or single for your child to get the extension based on child support.

You need to go to court to get custody.

If is in my passport...yes is in my custody, is registered in the AIRE Italian register for resident in foreign country like Italian citizen.

Last question, this for the extension, is the same for have the visa?

Ok is something ...that i dont understand:

2. THAI LAW

In most Western countries, the Mother and Father of the child get equal rights and obligations. Under Thai Law, this isn't the case. According to section 1546 of CCCT, when a child is born and the mother is NOT married to the father, the father has no LEGAL RIGHTS over the child. Only the mother has rights (and obligations) over the child.

A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:

1. If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents

2. If there is a registration made at the amphur

3. If there is a judgment by the Court.

Exception one is easily understood.

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".

Unmarried parents can make a simple agreement between them related to custody but the agreement won't be enforceable by Law. An example is the Supreme Court judgment 7473/2537. In that case, the plaintiff and the defendant cohabited as husband and wife but did not register their marriage. They had one child together, namely; Mr. Yor. According to Thai Law, the plaintiff is NOT the legitimate father of Mr.Yor and has no rights or obligations (duties) over the child. It is clear that the mother has FULL and SOLE parental powers. But the plaintiff and the defendant made a settlement agreement stating that Mr. Yor shall live alternatively 2 weeks with each party. The Supreme Court stated that this agreement cannot be effected pursuant sections 850 and following of Civil and Commercial Code. Therefore, the plaintiff cannot enforce the defendant to comply with such an agreement.

If the Father of a child who is not married to the Mother wants to accquire rights over a child by LAW, he must do it according to section 1547 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.

If there is a registration made at the amphur

This is the birth certificate made at the amphur....so???

help me please!!!

[Mario2008]

If there is a registration made at the amphur

This is the birth certificate made at the amphur....so???

It means that if the mother and child agree that the father is the father the registrar at the amphur can on his request register the father as the legal father. In your case you will have to go to court (or marry the mother) to be recognised as the legal father.

That you registerd the child under Italian law is of no consequence, since the child was born in Thailadn it needs to be legitimized under Thai law.

In allmost all countries it is the case that when the parents are not married, the father needs to do something to be recognised as the legal father.

For the visa you being named on the birth certificate will be enough. For the extension of stay you will need to be the legal father.

[lopburi3]

The father must personally register the birth at the amphur office. Often this is done by hospital or others.

Information in post #5

(2) Confirmation of employment given by a hotel or company

engaged in the entertainment business in Thailand with a

registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, full paid-up

is total nonsense

[oceano]

If there is a registration made at the amphur

This is the birth certificate made at the amphur....so???

It means that if the mother and child agree that the father is the father the registrar at the amphur can on his request register the father as the legal father. In your case you will have to go to court (or marry the mother) to be recognised as the legal father.

That you registerd the child under Italian law is of no consequence, since the child was born in Thailadn it needs to be legitimized under Thai law.

In allmost all countries it is the case that when the parents are not married, the father needs to do something to be recognised as the legal father.

For the visa you being named on the birth certificate will be enough. For the extension of stay you will need to be the legal father.

Thank you so much Mario now i understand.

May i ask you some more?

for to go in the court i need a lawyer or i can do for myself?

I need show money when i ask the visa?

I have a company in my country so i can show my income from there, but i need time for all document so i have time for the extension but not for the visa.

[Mario2008]

Unfortunately, in a discussion with Isaanlawyers it was found out that legitimizing a child at the amphur by registering the birth yourself is not a legal option. Some amphurs seem to accept it, most not.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Article-Chil...38#entry3271938

1) Most amphur will not accept ONLY the father. All parties will have to consent, the mother and child too.

I will try to find the source. I believe it's under a regulation. I've never seen ONLY the father to register these rights without a judgment...but I'm not saying it's impossible. I just never seen it and we called at least 10 amphurs in different cases, they all refused under 7 years-old, they always asked the mother and father to consent.

I've seen many times amphur doing things that are 'not by the rules'.

2) Then if you do such agreement, you add clause 1566 (6).

Thaivisa is a big forum. Just ask: Is there a father out here who registered these rights ALONE at the amphur? If yes, can you scan the documents...

If not, it's gossip.

I repeat: I NEVER SEEN ONE AMPHUR JUST DOING A REGISTRATION WITHOUT THE MOTHER.. unless there is a judgment. That, yes. I've seen it many times. We register the rights after we have a judgment, that could also be an agreement in Court stamped by a judge, which has the same authority as a judgment in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

Thank you so much Mario now i understand.

May i ask you some more?

for to go in the court i need a lawyer or i can do for myself?

I need show money when i ask the visa?

I have a company in my country so i can show my income from there, but i need time for all document so i have time for the extension but not for the visa.

You will need a lawyer, but if the mother agrees to your request it a very simple undertaking and you don't need an expensive lawyer.

For the non-O visa just show a bankbook with some money in it, like 20,000. If you want to try to get a multiple non-O you will need to show a bank statement with at least 100,000. But the multiple, which in Asia you will only get in Kuala Lumpur, is not a sure thing. Try it, but it's not 100%

[oceano]

Thank you Mario!!

[lopburi3]

The key in above is under age 7 and alone - in that case it requires both parents or court action but if over 7 the child can say for themselves is my understanding.

[oceano]

The key in above is under age 7 and alone - in that case it requires both parents or court action but if over 7 the child can say for themselves is my understanding.

Mine have 10 month, but the mother she live whit me is 3 yrs now and she agree no problem.

Guys...is not easy, hope all of us in the same condition can find and easy way and can stay whit their childs.

Thank you

Roberto.

[Mario2008]

The key in above is under age 7 and alone - in that case it requires both parents or court action but if over 7 the child can say for themselves is my understanding.

Mine have 10 month, but the mother she live whit me is 3 yrs now and she agree no problem.

Guys...is not easy, hope all of us in the same condition can find and easy way and can stay whit their childs.

Thank you

Roberto.

The law doesn't give an age requirement for the child in order to be able to give consent. In general the age seems to be 7, but there are a few cases where the amphur agreed as early as 3 or 4 years old. That will probably not be the case in a big city, but more up country and if you know an important local who can support you (a head master or villige headman) you can try this first. At worst they will say no. (Which they probably will).

[oceano]

So i made the non imm O in Vientianne.

In this morning i call the amphur in balamung, i live in Pattaya.....sorry but no problem, no need go in court nothings.

Ok you need the permit from the mother, if you fight whit her you must go in the court.

More, my girl friends and the baby, 10 month, they have house book in Tak, so we call also there and whitout me, only copy of my passport she do for me.

Also the lady said that is not a problem, we explain about need all the time go in the court, that whit the permit of the mother nobody refuse to you.

That's all, so why everywere in here everybody say MUST go in court?

For to be sure that a dont lie all can call the Banglamung Amphur and ask...easy and when i will have, 10 or 11 may the paper i will post here.

Ciao

PS: someone know in Thai the translation of "custody" i mean, sometimes i read about "legalize the child by a registration at the amphur" sometimes i read about "custody", i hope they understand well...i made an explample to them( in amphur) " the legal paper for take my son whit me abroad".

Sorry but i want be sure 100%, pls help me.

[tominthat]

The birth cert is enough to show you are the legal father. I got my Thai child an Irish passport based on the birth cert.

[oceano]

The birth cert is enough to show you are the legal father. I got my Thai child an Irish passport based on the birth cert.

Ok that is one, but as you can read up, the" custody" is different thing.

Custody, i understand that everybody say you must go in the cort for have, but as i write they tell me me can be made easy also in amphur.

[Mario2008]

As said, some amphurs will grant you custody it the mother agrees. However most wont and have the law on their side if they refuse when the child is not able to make a statement.

[Mario2008]

The birth cert is enough to show you are the legal father. I got my Thai child an Irish passport based on the birth cert.

A birth certificate only shwos that you are the legal father if you are married to the mother. If not, it only shows that the person registering the birth claims that the person mentioned as the father is the father.

In most cases people and officials will not look further than the birth certificate, but if not married it doesn't mean you have parental powers over the child.

[oceano]

The birth cert is enough to show you are the legal father. I got my Thai child an Irish passport based on the birth cert.

A birth certificate only shwos that you are the legal father if you are married to the mother. If not, it only shows that the person registering the birth claims that the person mentioned as the father is the father.

In most cases people and officials will not look further than the birth certificate, but if not marrid it doesn't mean you have parental powers over the child.

Thank you Mario, one time im lucky in Thailand.

This is also for someone else that live in pattaya, from here no problem to do that, hope can help someone!!!

Thank you again

Roberto

[Mario2008]

I'm glad to hear you didn't have to go to court and thank you for letting us know. It might indeed be useful to others.

[oceano]

I'm glad to hear you didn't have to go to court and thank you for letting us know. It might indeed be useful to others.

First thank you to Isaanlawyers for explain to me which document is the "child custody" in Thai language" and to Mario for all other things.

Why?

Immigration of Chang Mai: you cannot have extension based on this you MUST be married.(police officer)

Immigration of Bangkok: I dont know you must find for yourself ( she talk whit other people around her about somethings else meanwhile talk whit me) try look in immigration website.

Immigration of Pattaya: you MUST have the custody from the COURT we dont care about amphur!!!! First you go in the court and whit that you come here THAN if you like you can go in amphur but for your happiness not for us.

Immigration of Phuket: 2 number 2 fax cannot talk by phone.

3 agency in pattaya, one layer they do visa for you but....thay dont know which kind of paper is the child custody you must find for yourself, ask in amphur.

2 amphur bangkok and chiang mai: you must show me which paper you want we dont know what you taking about.

OK all this 3 they dont know whic is the name of the paper for " child custody" in Thai that i need!!!!

Last call to Isaanlawyers, nice lady explain easy and fast which paper i need to do in amhur.

So at the end i want win so someone know were are the law about child custody and for make the non imm O for child support in THai?

like that i can show the law at the officer if the make problem.

Tank you again

Roberto.

[Mario2008]

Child custody is regulated in the Thai civil code, book V.

You cna find both the Thai and English versions here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Family-Law-t313877.html

For the visa look here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a70477-.html

2.18 is for extension based on having a Thai child.

[oceano]

Thank you Mario for the quick answer, one more thing...the last!!

I must to be present in amphur or only the mother can go?

The baby is too small for a long travel ,so i must stay here whit the baby and my GF go to make that.

[Mario2008]

Both must be present, to confirm you are the father.

[oceano]

Thank you so much Mario.

Roberto