Thai Forces Use Tear Gas, Water Cannon Against Protesters

[bendejo]

All I got to say is... About dam_n time... I'm completely not oppose to using force now. I'm so tired of the whole thing. Now if the Reds would all just go home so BKK can function normally again.

Its one thing to protest for something but its another thing entirely when you take over places and start blocking major sectors of the city, forcing businesses to close down.

Not only is the city losing money and eventually the county as well, but those workers in the businesses also dont get paid!

...

I agree. I appreciated Abhisit's patience. But something had to be done, and he didn't do it.

Too late now, but I never understood why they granted the redshirts Ratchadamnoen, they could have just given up Sanam Luang. Even then, they could have just given a 3 day permit for Ratchadamnoen, after which they'd be in violation, bringing the illegality in sooner than the Rajprasong occupation finally caused.

I appreciate Khun A's diplomatic and gentlemanly manner, but it just ain't working. Maybe Thailand isn't ready for such a genteel leader, which means he's unqualified for the job. Not that I'd care one way or the other about his political career or a regime change, I just hate to see that lying, arrogant, square-faced piece of slime get his way.

In contrast to all this, three years ago the Malaysian-Indians were planning a demonstration. The gov't told them they cannot demonstrate without a permit. The Indians said "ok, give us a permit." The Malaysian gov't said "no, we don't do things like that here, demonstrating is not our way." The day came, the Indians rallied (nothing violent, just the usual shouting, chanting, placards etc), and the police busted heads -- I was in Malaysia at the time, in an outdoor cafe watching it on TV, and everyone on the street crowded around the TV to see. That incident changed the whole political climate down there.

BTW, does anyone else out there think Taksin's illness is a fake-out?

Edited April 9, 2010 by bendejo

[chadintheusa]

Sometimes threats to the security of the nation come from within. So it is perfectly reasonable for the army to assist in protecting its citizens.

[LevelHead]

UPDATE:

Thaksin Bribes Weather Men

According to High Ranking Sources Thaksin Shinawatra payed weather men to change the wind direction just at the right moment

Today leading to 7000 Soldiers gassing themselves.

That would fit perfect into the Yellow biased media system stories going around. I spilt my coffee after reading that.

Thaksin has been accused and found guilty in the Kangeroo "double standard" system of being to blame for Global warming and Global cooling, climate change, rising sea levels, the war in Iraq, 9/11 and anything else they may wish to make up, accuse him and convict him of doing.

Thats the wonder of controlling the judiciary, you can find anyone you want guilty and give immunity to all others

Monkfish, please post more often !!

[johncitizen]

Signal restored! The power of the people has prevailed. A great day for democracy.

http://tweetphoto.com/17730706

[way2muchcoffee]

Unfortunately, the army didn't back it up and actually stop them from getting through.

Good news seems the rank/file in the army do not have the heart for this. Democracy is at work.

Ermmmmm in any "democratic" country the army and police would disperse these terrorists with any possible means ... so I do not know what your point is ...

W

In a "democratic" Country, we do not use the military forces against part of the citizens. Special police forces are created for this specific role. Army is symbol of Unity and reserved against exterior threats.

today is a typical (attempted) misuse of military Forces.

Not true, in the US at least. The National Guard are armed forces and they are routinely called out whenever a state of emergency is called. Typically this will be for riots or natural disasters.

[anotherpeter]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

[sotsira]

Announce a dissolution of parliament and it might, just might, prevent LOS from going down the tubes.

And then what? We have to endure months more of red mob 'campaigning', bomb attacks and intimidation in the lead up to the vote. It will just raise the temperature and provoke counter rallies. And if they lose are they going to accept the result?

They won't lose cos they have the majority, just like the last 3 elections that they won.

[WAERTH]

Unfortunately, the army didn't back it up and actually stop them from getting through.

Good news seems the rank/file in the army do not have the heart for this. Democracy is at work.

Ermmmmm in any "democratic" country the army and police would disperse these terrorists with any possible means ... so I do not know what your point is ...

W

In a "democratic" Country, we do not use the military forces against part of the citizens. Special police forces are created for this specific role. Army is symbol of Unity and reserved against exterior threats.

today is a typical (attempted) misuse of military Forces.

Hmmmm are you sure the military would not support the police f things got out of control? I can remember in the Netherlands after 911 the military out everytime the government announced a "terror threat" protecting vital installations.

W

[arkom]

I'm sorry but this government is joke! First they let the reds take over parliament, then they let them take over Thaicom and resume broadcast after Suthep said the government definitely won't them occupy it. Abbhist needs to either step up and have the balls use violence or step down cause since this has started he has not been able to stop them form doing whatever they want.

[Crushdepth]

Signal restored! The power of the people has prevailed. A great day for democracy.

http://tweetphoto.com/17730706

If you enjoy listening to North Korean-style commie propaganda.

[LevelHead]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

The last election was very biased.

Held under nigh on "martial law" in places.

PPP candidates followed, watched, videod by the interim coup appointed government.

Army with "education budget" on teaching the rural poor how to vote (or how to not vote PPP ? ).

Everything was done to stop PPP getting a majority, but they still won.

Free and fair elections now..... PTP will win a single party majority and watch the small parties come running back saying sorry and 'please please please we want to join you".

One thing the Democrats have done now and that is to totally alienate themselves from most normal Thai's.

[Luciano1860]

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."

George Bernard Shaw

[lannarebirth]

Unfortunately, the army didn't back it up and actually stop them from getting through.

Good news seems the rank/file in the army do not have the heart for this. Democracy is at work.

They don't have the heart because it's against their own people - poor people - who are fed up with the rich kids down in BKK despite what idiots like jinglethingy think - they have had enough!

I know you've only been hear a couple of years, but are you under the impression that the officer corps of the armed forces here is not comprised of the relatives of rich people. It's a business for them, just like any other.

[roamer]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

"Unless or until the result is changed again" was my caveat. Numerous threads on that, lets not go there. Answer the second part....what if the army decides not to fight ?

[sotsira]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

Answer:

1) In the last 3 elections the reds won the majority of votes thats why they feel so cheated when the courts

threw out the red party back in Dec 08, and instated the yellows.

Don't forget that the rural poor who out number the Bangkok elite in population would mostly vote for the reds.

2) This would only come in to effect if election results concluded a hung government.

[DP25]

Announce a dissolution of parliament and it might, just might, prevent LOS from going down the tubes.

And then what? We have to endure months more of red mob 'campaigning', bomb attacks and intimidation in the lead up to the vote. It will just raise the temperature and provoke counter rallies. And if they lose are they going to accept the result?

They won't lose cos they have the majority, just like the last 3 elections that they won.

Just like the last election, where over 60% of the people voted against them. You can bet that they will be beating up political opponents trying to campaign and judging from today no one is going to stop them.

[Luciano1860]

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."

George Bernard Shaw

TRUE OR FALSE?

GOD BLESS AMERICA

[BSJ]

When will they use real bullet. The way the Red Shirts behave will and should be soon now

Real bullets. Do you really believe that's the answer? If so your a sad individual.

I look at the footage and see mothers, sisters and children by the hundreds.

Does anyone else in this thread think the NCO's and other ranks will fire real bullets into a crowd of unarmed civilians?

I think if they were ordered to do that there would be a mutiny in the ranks.

[arkom]

delete

Edited April 9, 2010 by arkom

[chadintheusa]

A sad day for democracy. The democrats are in power because some Thai people did vote for them. Their democratic rights have been over ruled by a mob. You may not like the government in power but there is a legitimate way to change them. 50,000 angry reds doesn't make a majority in a country of 60 million.

[Maestro]

Thailand's red-shirt protesters occupy TV compound

Thousands of Thai protesters have broken through police and army lines to occupy a building at a satellite station compound north of Bangkok.

Tear gas was used against the crowd but the anti-government protesters regrouped and pushed back, forcing the security forces to retreat.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8610740.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/default.stm' target="_blank">

[globalmenace]

In a "democratic" Country, we do not use the military forces against part of the citizens. Special police forces are created for this specific role. Army is symbol of Unity and reserved against exterior threats.

today is a typical (attempted) misuse of military Forces.

Not true, in the US at least. The National Guard are armed forces and they are routinely called out whenever a state of emergency is called. Typically this will be for riots or natural disasters.

"The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Act during peacetime."

But it doesn't always work out that way, even in defense of federal property. Regular Army troops were used to break the "Bonus March" in the 1930's. Led by McArthur and Patton.

"On 28 July, 1932, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the police evacuation of the Bonus Army veterans. When they resisted the police shot at them, killing two. When told of this, President Hoover ordered the army to effect the evacuation of the Bonus Army from Washington.

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, Fort Myer, Virginia, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans. The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honour, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them — an action which prompted the civil service spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"

After the cavalry charge the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling this exercise was a Communist attempt at overthrowing the U.S. Government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Hundreds of veterans were injured and several killed — including William Hushka and Eric Carlson. A veteran's wife miscarried. The infant, Bernard Myers, died in the hospital after the incident but reports indicated the death was not caused by the evacuation of the BEF.

The Posse Comitatus Act — forbidding civilian police work by the U.S. military — did not apply to Washington, D.C., because it is the federal district directly governed by the U.S. Congress (U.S. Constitution, Article I. Section 8. Clause 17). The exemption was created because of an earlier "Bonus March." In 1781, most of the Continental Army was demobilized without pay. Two years later hundreds of Pennsylvania war veterans marched on Philadelphia, surrounding the State House where Congress was in session, and demanded their pay. The U.S. Congress fled to Princeton, New Jersey, and several weeks later, the U.S. Army expelled the war veterans from the national capital."

OK, back to the action...

[Throatwobbler]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

The last election was very biased.

Held under nigh on "martial law" in places.

PPP candidates followed, watched, videod by the interim coup appointed government.

Army with "education budget" on teaching the rural poor how to vote (or how to not vote PPP ? ).

Everything was done to stop PPP getting a majority, but they still won.

Free and fair elections now..... PTP will win a single party majority and watch the small parties come running back saying sorry and 'please please please we want to join you".

One thing the Democrats have done now and that is to totally alienate themselves from most normal Thai's.

Do You think we can have FREE and FAIR elections at the moment. Elections where politicians from all parties can travel to all parts of the country and canvass for votes. Freely travel without threats of violence and intimidation. Elections where huge amounts of money do not change hands. Elections where policies and not who has the deepest pocket decide the outcome.

Do you think we can have elections like that at the moment?

[roamer]

When will they use real bullet. The way the Red Shirts behave will and should be soon now

Real bullets. Do you really believe that's the answer? If so your a sad individual.

I look at the footage and see mothers, sisters and children by the hundreds.

Does anyone else in this thread think the NCO's and other ranks will fire real bullets into a crowd of unarmed civilians?

I think if they were ordered to do that there would be a mutiny in the ranks.

You only "think" there will be a mutiny? Too self-effacing, you know there would be a mutiny in the ranks as would anyone with a modicum of intelligence, something we can assume the OP lacks I feel.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Unfortunately, the army didn't back it up and actually stop them from getting through.

Good news seems the rank/file in the army do not have the heart for this. Democracy is at work.

They don't have the heart because it's against their own people - poor people - who are fed up with the rich kids down in BKK despite what idiots like jinglethingy think - they have had enough!

I know you've only been hear a couple of years, but are you under the impression that the officer corps of the armed forces here is not comprised of the relatives of rich people. It's a business for them, just like any other.

no, i am fully aware of that and saddened by it

[roamer]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

The last election was very biased.

Held under nigh on "martial law" in places.

PPP candidates followed, watched, videod by the interim coup appointed government.

Army with "education budget" on teaching the rural poor how to vote (or how to not vote PPP ? ).

Everything was done to stop PPP getting a majority, but they still won.

Free and fair elections now..... PTP will win a single party majority and watch the small parties come running back saying sorry and 'please please please we want to join you".

One thing the Democrats have done now and that is to totally alienate themselves from most normal Thai's.

Do You think we can have FREE and FAIR elections at the moment. Elections where politicians from all parties can travel to all parts of the country and canvass for votes. Freely travel without threats of violence and intimidation. Elections where huge amounts of money do not change hands. Elections where policies and not who has the deepest pocket decide the outcome.

Do you think we can have elections like that at the moment?

No. I don't think like that. Thailand has never had an election like that....why start now ?

[chantorn]

Signal restored! The power of the people has prevailed. A great day for democracy.

http://tweetphoto.com/17730706

If you enjoy listening to North Korean-style commie propaganda.

I take it that you are refering to NBT aka ch11.

[anotherpeter]

Well if the people were to vote the way they did last time I can't see the reds complaining too much can you ? Unless or until the result is changed yet again. That in no way contradicts my belief that this is a legitimate government under parliamentary rules. Legitimate though not elected.

Nowhere did I say Thailand will change for the better were a dissolution to take place, merely that you have to smell the coffee. One question. What then is to happen if the army are to continue to retreat ? You can't say that they won't anymore than I can say they can. So what happens if the confrontation continues and the army decides its not going to fight ?

If everyone votes the same way as last time, and the parties form the same coalition that they currently have, that will mean an elected Democrat government.

So people assuming that an election would lead to a red government needs to explain either:

1) why more people would vote for the reds, or

2) why the parties supporting the Democrats now would change back to supporting the red party.

"Unless or until the result is changed again" was my caveat. Numerous threads on that, lets not go there. Answer the second part....what if the army decides not to fight ?

I took your caveat as being "changed" to suit the Democrats, so I pointed out that if everyone voted the same way it would lead to a Democrat government.

But, you second point ... the army deciding not to fight?

I don't see that as happening unless we see a "red army coup" (ie the Thaksin supporters in the army taking control). That would see Thaksin walking back in the front door. Very bad for Thailand IMO.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sometimes threats to the security of the nation come from within. So it is perfectly reasonable for the army to assist in protecting its citizens.

A basic rule:

In France, we have the famous "Legion Etrangere". A Legionnaire is NEVER engaged if the conflict is with his Country of Origin.

Same here the soldiers are not to be engaged against their fellow citizen: you have to create special forces for doing that. Mercenaries directly depending from Government and attached to the Police. The result of today is a confirmation that the use of Army against his own fellow ctizens is a big mistake.

[anotherpeter]

Announce a dissolution of parliament and it might, just might, prevent LOS from going down the tubes.

And then what? We have to endure months more of red mob 'campaigning', bomb attacks and intimidation in the lead up to the vote. It will just raise the temperature and provoke counter rallies. And if they lose are they going to accept the result?

They won't lose cos they have the majority, just like the last 3 elections that they won.

Just like the last election, where over 60% of the people voted against them. You can bet that they will be beating up political opponents trying to campaign and judging from today no one is going to stop them.

And the previous election that was invalidated (before any coup).