Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[beerchang]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

Exactly! Are they queing for weapons? Don't think so.

There are 'followers of a cause' in every country in the world. Some of them don't participate in every action taken by the causes' 'leaders' and disagree absolutely with some of them.

There's good and bad everywhere.

These are insurgents!

Labelled as, by your good self. Do you honestly believe that all those people know exactly what's going on? Grandma 'insurgent' at bottom middle of picture looks quite formidable!

[BigBikeBKK]

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

No, that's the way Taksin operates (remember his 'war on drugs'???)

Since when does fighting an armed mob = execution? Quite a leap there. But when authorities try to remove an illegal mob using non-lethal means (tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons) and are met with guns, grenades and fire bombs they have every right to fight fire with fire.

Next time the army should just roll in with tanks and give the red mob a choice- go home or else.

[asiancup2007]

Agree 100%

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

[kissdani]

can somebody explain to me how over 250 soldiers got wounded, most by gunshots and grenades? Do they shoot themselves?

"At least 230 soldiers injured during clashes with soldiers

At least 230 soldiers were injured as they tried to disperse the red shirts protesters on Saturday, Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said.

Ninety of them were seriously injured. Most of them were injured from bullet and sharpnels wounds."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/At-le...--30126973.html

A detailed statistics about the nature of the injuries would be interesting.

I found this article that has some data in the soldiers. I think the 'most of them' refers to the 90 seriously injured. So there are most of 90 wounded by gunshots and grenades.

The PM spoke of M79 grenades that have been fired at soldiers. Bullet wounds could came from all direction, the reds, a third party, friendly fire ( there wasn't always a clear 'front-line' but a big chaos). Or your assumption - self inflicted wounds. What could a poor conscript do to avoid to be send in a battle against against his people?

Have you any information what kind of injuries are on the side of the red shirts?

A sad day. The whole operation was a total failure and a useless exercise that had achieved nothing. Only a terrible loss, pain, grief and anger.

[473geo]

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

No, that's the way Taksin operates (remember his 'war on drugs'???)

Since when does fighting an armed mob = execution? Quite a leap there. But when authorities try to remove an illegal mob using non-lethal means (tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons) and are met with guns, grenades and fire bombs they have every right to fight fire with fire.

Next time the army should just roll in with tanks and give the red mob a choice- go home or else.

You see the second thing that interests me is why when a question is forwarded somehow the historical events of the Thaksin era are thrown in as some sort of justification that the current actions are not so desperate.......strange logic if you see what I mean.

I pray that there is not a next time and that if there is the fire is not stoked by the government of the day but a prolonged control and defuse method is applied. There is another way to fight fire.......it's called dousing the flames........you can either use sand or water......in both cases it is advisable to retire a safe distance.

However some take the opportunity to back burn to solve fire problems, works, but not always effective if the wind changes!!!

[whiterussian]

Agree 100%

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

I think being white-skinned, we farang automatically qualify as 'ruling-elite' members of society... after all think how much we pump into Thais.

Economy.

Just need to buy the wifey some skin whitening lotions, give her a perm, and we too can mingle amongst the cream of bangkok.

Edited April 10, 2010 by whiterussian

[pagallim]

Exactly! Are they queing for weapons? Don't think so.

There are 'followers of a cause' in every country in the world. Some of them don't participate in every action taken by the causes' 'leaders' and disagree absolutely with some of them.

There's good and bad everywhere.

These are insurgents!

Labelled as, by your good self. Do you honestly believe that all those people know exactly what's going on? Grandma 'insurgent' at bottom middle of picture looks quite formidable!

Just another normal person perhaps growing tired of being used and abused. That give you a problem? Remember, there isn't a direct correlation between education and intelligence. I've lived and worked in many different areas of the world, and met many intelligent people who haven't had much in the way of formal education. Because someone hasn't had opportunity doesn't mean that their views and ideals shouldn't be any less valued, and even more, that their principles should be dismissed out of hand because of where they come from, or their heritage.

[Damacles]

Some of you seem to be falling into the same traps as you accuse others of, that of dis/misinformation. A photo of a group of people who could just as likely be standing for the national anthem proves nothing, good or bad. Photos, like conjecture, need perspective.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

What an absolute piece of nonsense, and you patently don't live here. The UDD sought no confrontation whatsoever for approaching one month, and it was only the actions of the Government (i.e. closing their sole TV station down) that prompted their move on Thaicom. You obviously don't realise the pressure from coalition and associated entities that Abhisit has had to deal with. Why do you think you've seen so many video footage and photos of the UDD and Army/Police exchanging handshakes etc?

Bottom line, Abhisit hasn't made the call, someone else has, but Abhisit is the one who's going to have to live with the aftermath. All he has to do was maintain his non-confrontational approach, be patient, and let everyone disperse. But no, he bowed to pressure, and as can be seen from the events of this evening, you back an animal into a corner and threaten it, it will retaliate.

Again, TV station citing and promoting civil disobedience? Have you ever watched ASTV (or even heard of it?)? Your post is asinine, get some facts and background, and come back and apologise.

I have lived here for 8 years and if you think anyone here is going to believe your nonsense about the peaceful redshirts then you truly are dillussional. "No confrontation whatsoever for approaching a month" ???? are you freekin serious?? Another simple question back to you then, if Takky was still in charge and protests like this were going on, how long do you think he would have shown any form of restraint? An honest answer would be appreciated as I did not see any restraint from him when he was killing thousands of SUSPECTED drug dealers (no trials there). Or his restraint when handcuffing and loading countless dozens of Muslims into trucks and letting them suffocate. And since you think you are the only one that lives here and knows whats going on do you remember how many editors resigned from the newspapers because of Taksin's cencosrship? I remember 17 at one go.

[monkfish]

can somebody explain to me how over 250 soldiers got wounded, most by gunshots and grenades? Do they shoot themselves?

"At least 230 soldiers injured during clashes with soldiers

At least 230 soldiers were injured as they tried to disperse the red shirts protesters on Saturday, Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said.

Ninety of them were seriously injured. Most of them were injured from bullet and sharpnels wounds."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/At-le...--30126973.html

A detailed statistics about the nature of the injuries would be interesting.

I found this article that has some data in the soldiers. I think the 'most of them' refers to the 90 seriously injured. So there are most of 90 wounded by gunshots and grenades.

The PM spoke of M79 grenades that have been fired at soldiers. Bullet wounds could came from all direction, the reds, a third party, friendly fire ( there wasn't always a clear 'front-line' but a big chaos). Or your assumption - self inflicted wounds. What could a poor conscript do to avoid to be send in a battle against against his people?

Have you any information what kind of injuries are on the side of the red shirts?

A sad day. The whole operation was a total failure and a useless exercise that had achieved nothing. Only a terrible loss, pain, grief and anger.

I was looking for the story on the Nation website about how many people were injured or killed

But can't find it yet.

May be they are still counting and it will be out tomorrow?

Edited April 10, 2010 by monkfish

[BigBikeBKK]

the this

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

No, that's the way Taksin operates (remember his 'war on drugs'???)

Since when does fighting an armed mob = execution? Quite a leap there. But when authorities try to remove an illegal mob using non-lethal means (tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons) and are met with guns, grenades and fire bombs they have every right to fight fire with fire.

Next time the army should just roll in with tanks and give the red mob a choice- go home or else.

You see the second thing that interests me is why when a question is forwarded somehow the historical events of the Thaksin era are thrown in as some sort of justification that the current actions are not so desperate.......strange logic if you see what I mean.

I pray that there is not a next time and that if there is the fire is not stoked by the government of the day but a prolonged control and defuse method is applied. There is another way to fight fire.......it's called dousing the flames........you can either use sand or water......in both cases it is advisable to retire a safe distance.

However some take the opportunity to back burn to solve fire problems, works, but not always effective if the wind changes!!!

Taksin is the leader of the red shirt movement so how can you remove him from the discussion?

We all know these protests have nothing to do with 'democracy'. The current government has been trying to diffuse the situation for weeks but the Taksin financed red mobs refuse.

How long should the government allow this mob to hold parts of the capital hostage? I'd say the government was amazingly patient. Too patient in my personal opinion.

Time to enforce the law and remove them so that everyone else can get on with their lives. The government tried remove the mob peacefully and the mob responded with violence.

Already the pictures and videos are clear- the army moved in with tear gas and batons, red mob responded with guns and fire bombs. The reds try to portray themselves as victims but they are the ones who escalated the violence.

Sad that it's come to this, but seems the only way to get rid of this mob is force. They certainly asked for it. Som nam na.

[pagallim]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Ron, sorry, you're mistaken. Abhisit is the epitomy of everything bad about Thailand, and the pinnacle of the cronyism that you refer to. He is only in the position that he's in because of cronyism, and he puts a more attractive media face on those who are really pulling his strings. Why do you think that he never makes a decision himself? Suthep is his chaperone, to tweak his ear when he gets delusions of adequacy.

[Siam Simon]

Some of you seem to be falling into the same traps as you accuse others of, that of dis/misinformation. A photo of a group of people who could just as likely be standing for the national anthem proves nothing, good or bad. Photos, like conjecture, need perspective.

The 'perspective' is that they are all wearing red shirts. Look at the photo again. You may notice this 'perspective' on second viewing.

[Gnarpjohan]

The soldiers were upholding the law of their country against rebel insurgents. 'Nuff said.

Thailand screwed up big time when law was twisted to keep the elected reds out of parliament.

What law was twisted exactly? Are you upset because Taksin's TRT party was convicted and dissolved as a result of electoral fraud and vote buying?

Yes, very much so since ANY political party in Thailand could/should have been convicted of vote buying, i.e. there is inequality before the law. Which creates disrespect. First a military coup, then a judicial.

[whiterussian]

Koh San Road video:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8613482.stm

Edited April 10, 2010 by whiterussian

[Siam Simon]

Some of you seem to be falling into the same traps as you accuse others of, that of dis/misinformation. A photo of a group of people who could just as likely be standing for the national anthem proves nothing, good or bad. Photos, like conjecture, need perspective.

The 'perspective' is that they are all wearing red shirts. Look at the photo again. You may notice this 'perspective' on second viewing.

[Gnarpjohan]

The soldiers were upholding the law of their country against rebel insurgents. 'Nuff said.

Thailand screwed up big time when law was twisted to keep the elected reds out of parliament.

What law was twisted exactly? Are you upset because Taksin's TRT party was convicted and dissolved as a result of electoral fraud and vote buying?

Yes, very much so since ANY political party in Thailand could/should have been convicted of vote buying, i.e. there is inequality before the law as it is used for political purposes. Which creates disrespect for the law. First a military coup, then a judicial.

[JackSterling]

How old are you?

Over 700 years and you need to deal with your problems like this now today??

Really shows the world what you are really like...

NTFT

NEVER TRUST a FELLOW THAI... Did I say that right???

[jucel]

shocking pictures coming through. be advised extemely graphic

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...id=383671402050

[gotglue]

How old are you?

Over 700 years and you need to deal with your problems like this now today??

Really shows the world what you are really like...

NTFT

NEVER TRUST a FELLOW THAI... Did I say that right???

Sterling's nailed it

[473geo]

the this

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

No, that's the way Taksin operates (remember his 'war on drugs'???)

Since when does fighting an armed mob = execution? Quite a leap there. But when authorities try to remove an illegal mob using non-lethal means (tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons) and are met with guns, grenades and fire bombs they have every right to fight fire with fire.

Next time the army should just roll in with tanks and give the red mob a choice- go home or else.

You see the second thing that interests me is why when a question is forwarded somehow the historical events of the Thaksin era are thrown in as some sort of justification that the current actions are not so desperate.......strange logic if you see what I mean.

I pray that there is not a next time and that if there is the fire is not stoked by the government of the day but a prolonged control and defuse method is applied. There is another way to fight fire.......it's called dousing the flames........you can either use sand or water......in both cases it is advisable to retire a safe distance.

However some take the opportunity to back burn to solve fire problems, works, but not always effective if the wind changes!!!

Taksin is the leader of the red shirt movement so how can you remove him from the discussion?

We all know these protests have nothing to do with 'democracy'. The current government has been trying to diffuse the situation for weeks but the Taksin financed red mobs refuse.

How long should the government allow this mob to hold parts of the capital hostage? I'd say the government was amazingly patient. Too patient in my personal opinion.

Time to enforce the law and remove them so that everyone else can get on with their lives. The government tried remove the mob peacefully and the mob responded with violence.

Already the pictures and videos are clear- the army moved in with tear gas and batons, red mob responded with guns and fire bombs. The reds try to portray themselves as victims but they are the ones who escalated the violence.

Sad that it's come to this, but seems the only way to get rid of this mob is force. They certainly asked for it. Som nam na.

Can't admit that underestimating the protest determination from the start by the government and many others has caused this situation?

That is the undeniable fact.......because if the potential had been assessed correctly the protest would not have been allowed to even enter Bangkok. That is what this regime is also guilty of......complacency!!!!

Oh I'm sure Thaksin was guilty of complacency in his time too....so that will make everything, even and the deaths, ok then....in your world?

Edited April 10, 2010 by 473geo

[selftaopath]

If it is proven that some of these people that died were paid by Thaksin to be there I would think he could be up on some very serious charges '

I am not sure what these individuals should be called, but demonstrators does not seem to be the correct description.

[rstrauss]

they need to be taken down quickly from the top.

there must be at least one team of soliders with balls that can arrest the heads and take them to some far off military base

I think we are past the point of "due process" and having to explain actions

Start with Thaksin. I just can get over the fact, they let him run with all the money. Som nam na.

[BigBikeBKK]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Ron, sorry, you're mistaken. Abhisit is the epitomy of everything bad about Thailand, and the pinnacle of the cronyism that you refer to. He is only in the position that he's in because of cronyism, and he puts a more attractive media face on those who are really pulling his strings. Why do you think that he never makes a decision himself? Suthep is his chaperone, to tweak his ear when he gets delusions of adequacy.

Your assumptions about Abhisit's position as PM are not based in fact. Are you suggesting that an uber-corrupt megalomaniac like Taksin is preferable to a patient, well spoken, intelligent PM like Abhisit?

[473geo]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Ron, sorry, you're mistaken. Abhisit is the epitomy of everything bad about Thailand, and the pinnacle of the cronyism that you refer to. He is only in the position that he's in because of cronyism, and he puts a more attractive media face on those who are really pulling his strings. Why do you think that he never makes a decision himself? Suthep is his chaperone, to tweak his ear when he gets delusions of adequacy.

Your assumptions about Abhisit's position as PM are not based in fact. Are you suggesting that an uber-corrupt megalomaniac like Taksin is preferable to a patient, well spoken, intelligent PM like Abhisit?

Actually I think Abhisit stands on his own merit......why would you compare him to a convicted criminal to try and enhance his reputation?

[pagallim]

[/quot

I have lived here for 8 years and if you think anyone here is going to believe your nonsense about the peaceful redshirts then you truly are dillussional. "No confrontation whatsoever for approaching a month" ???? are you freekin serious?? Another simple question back to you then, if Takky was still in charge and protests like this were going on, how long do you think he would have shown any form of restraint? An honest answer would be appreciated as I did not see any restraint from him when he was killing thousands of SUSPECTED drug dealers (no trials there). Or his restraint when handcuffing and loading countless dozens of Muslims into trucks and letting them suffocate. And since you think you are the only one that lives here and knows whats going on do you remember how many editors resigned from the newspapers because of Taksin's cencosrship? I remember 17 at one go.

"OK, congratulations, you live here. However, no, I don't think that I'm being delusional when I said that I thought the UDD had been restrained and conducted a peaceful campaign for close to a month (until the Government lost face with the subsequent events of the past 24 hours). What would Thaksin have done? Don't know, but doubt that it would have got to this stage that's for sure. Think you're missing the point though, this really isn't about Thaksin, in spite of the phone in's etc etc, because he isn't ever coming back to politics. This is about the legacy that he left for a very large segment of society, and their feeling of betrayal by the current Government.

Sure, you can quote the 'war on drugs' etc, though I haven't actually heard anyone accuse Thaksin of pulling the trigger on any 'suspected' drug dealers personally. In fact, many of the Thai's that I know think it wasn't such a bad idea (not surprising if you live in areas with a high drug use, particularly amongst youngsters). Can't really comment on the Muslim's in trucks etc, though I know the actions of a few local forces weren't consistent with what's humane.

From recollection, the resignation of Editors was a political statement, and not wholly aligned with protests about censorship.

However and regardless of the pluses and minuses of a Thaksin debate, this current issue isn't seriously about him. The Amart/PAD etc can use him as a symbol to direct their supporters attention to, but it's never going to lessen their own (in some cases) equally distasteful actions, or bring about a society where there is genuine respect for all who comprise it."

[pagallim]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Ron, sorry, you're mistaken. Abhisit is the epitomy of everything bad about Thailand, and the pinnacle of the cronyism that you refer to. He is only in the position that he's in because of cronyism, and he puts a more attractive media face on those who are really pulling his strings. Why do you think that he never makes a decision himself? Suthep is his chaperone, to tweak his ear when he gets delusions of adequacy.

Your assumptions about Abhisit's position as PM are not based in fact. Are you suggesting that an uber-corrupt megalomaniac like Taksin is preferable to a patient, well spoken, intelligent PM like Abhisit?

Don't be so naive. Do you seriously think that Abhisit is actually the man in charge? He's a glorified spokesman, nothing more. An appealing face to put in front of the cameras to spout the rhetoric his real bosses want the masses to hear. And no, I'm not a Thaksin supporter per se, nor would wish him back in office, but nor am I convinced there is anyone of 'statesman' like qualities to lead what appears to be an imminent new government. We won't know until there are elections will we?

[Siam Simon]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Ron, sorry, you're mistaken. Abhisit is the epitomy of everything bad about Thailand, and the pinnacle of the cronyism that you refer to. He is only in the position that he's in because of cronyism, and he puts a more attractive media face on those who are really pulling his strings. Why do you think that he never makes a decision himself? Suthep is his chaperone, to tweak his ear when he gets delusions of adequacy.

Your assumptions about Abhisit's position as PM are not based in fact. Are you suggesting that an uber-corrupt megalomaniac like Taksin is preferable to a patient, well spoken, intelligent PM like Abhisit?

What you are asking is like asking if dog poo is better than horse poo. If Abhisit was a Western-style chief executive making executive decisions I would agree with you. But, nice, well-intentioned guy that he is, it is so utterly, blatantly obvious that he is not the one making the big decisions, your argument falls on it's arse with a very large 'THUD'.

[MellowYellow]

Is it just me or are there really a lot of hate mongering newbies coming out of the woodwork? (both sides) Big job at hand to clean up the forum.. respect for that.

There are a lot of hatemongering Oldies as well who could do with some cleaning up.

Calling for, then cheerleading violence. No justification.

[needforspeed]

People channel has just informed that the militars are trying

to take back the dead bodies from the hospital?!? Is there

anything to hide?

Not the military, the reds to show the body on stage, crazy sad people