Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

All except the below, which are facts:

- Abhisit hasn't addressed the concerns of the poor.

- Abhisit has ordered force to be used against protesters, including live ammunition, as shown in the video above.

- Abhisit's actions have killed 15 Thais so far, injuring nearly 600.

Other than that, it's one sided, yes.

Just because you use the word "fact" doesn't make your dribble actually factual. It is the actions of the reds that has led to this unfortunate situation. They wanted violence and they got it. The reds wanted elections, Abhisit agreed to them but in 9 months not 2 weeks (reasonable time frame). You can spin it anyw way you want but the facts really are the facts.

[xminator]

Well, there you have it. Was the half extra year posing on photos with various world leaders and in his shiny white uniform worth 15 human lives? If the counter stops at 15 that is. God knows how many more the government manages to cover up.

Not even the Greek used this kind of force against the rioters of December 2008. Even if the amount of material damage was on a completely different scale of what Thailand have seen the last month. This is scenes from Bangdad. Of Myanmar, China and Teheran. Not what we want to see from our loved Thailand.

[whiterussian]

.. the legitimacy of this government has been verified as nauseum.

On a forum called Thai Visa...

however the majority of western press still refer to the present administration coming to power in a coup.

Im no Thaksin fan, but the only way out of this circle is to stop having coups!

If you believe the Thai's are stupid enough not to notice entire parties being banned with a flick of a pen... then you deserve to live in a medieval system of war lords, which seems to be what is happening now. Sure Thaksin is Dr Evil, but then how many other Dr Evil's are there in Thailand? Plenty I'm sure. Just look at Forbes rich list.

They all play the game, it's which one can do it with the support of the 'people'.. not the support of the minority in charge of tanks, and courts.

The Lesser of Dr.Evil's.

Perhaps.

or not... but it's up to the Thai people to decide.

Edited April 10, 2010 by whiterussian

[helvetian]

what rock do you live under? did you somehow miss the publicly televised negotiations that went on for several days between the government and red shirts? problem is, the red shirt leaders care about one thing only and it's certainly NOT the poor or the farmers. The government didn't crack down on the protesters in order to stay in power but rather to liberate Bangkok from a paid mob that has caused massive disruptions in the capitol of the nation. Calling the PM a dictator really makes you look quite ignorant- the legitimacy of this government has been verified as nauseum. No one had to die today- the red mob had plenty of time and warnings to leave. They chose to stay and fight and die while their fugitive criminal leader relaxes in Dubai. I feel sorry for these gullible pawns who have wasted their lives for something they don't even understand.

Since when was the government handed a carte-blanche to kill Thai civilians? If they are doing something against the law, they should be arrested and brought into court in front of a judge. Not just shot on the streets.

The government's legitimacy has not been verified. That's however precisely what the people are asking for. If you are a legitimate government, hold elections and legitimize yourself. Abhisit should have nothing to fear if the people are behind him.

Nobody is being paid to come demonstrate. Either provide proof or stop lying. All they have been given is money to pay for gas to drive to Bangkok.

[thepodest]

d

All except the below, which are facts:

- Abhisit hasn't addressed the concerns of the poor.

- Abhisit has ordered force to be used against protesters, including live ammunition, as shown in the video above.

- Abhisit's actions have killed 15 Thais so far, injuring nearly 600.

Other than that, it's one sided, yes.

What concerns??? I only remember hearing "DISSOLVE THE HOUSE" "WE WANT REELECTION" during the negotiation

I think they have the impression nobody in BKK hears their voice.........

Was the house dissolved then??

I thought you were talking about some policy changes. This "concern" does not only affect the poor. It affects the country as a whole. People in BKK did hear their voice as the "negotitation" was shown in television. Maybe not everybody wants to given in to these "concerns". Democracy doesn't equal to getting what you want when you protest.

[BigBikeBKK]

All except the below, which are facts:

- Abhisit hasn't addressed the concerns of the poor.

- Abhisit has ordered force to be used against protesters, including live ammunition, as shown in the video above.

- Abhisit's actions have killed 15 Thais so far, injuring nearly 600.

Other than that, it's one sided, yes.

What concerns??? I only remember hearing "DISSOLVE THE HOUSE" "WE WANT REELECTION" during the negotiation

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

So you're suggesting that every time there are ~100,000 or so anti-government protesters in a country of 65 million people that new elections should be called? Ludicrous!

[helvetian]

Since when was the government handed a carte-blanche to kill Thai civilians? If they are doing something against the law, they should be arrested and brought into court in front of a judge. Not just shot on the streets.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

what rock do you live under? did you somehow miss the publicly televised negotiations that went on for several days between the government and red shirts? problem is, the red shirt leaders care about one thing only and it's certainly NOT the poor or the farmers. The government didn't crack down on the protesters in order to stay in power but rather to liberate Bangkok from a paid mob that has caused massive disruptions in the capitol of the nation. Calling the PM a dictator really makes you look quite ignorant- the legitimacy of this government has been verified as nauseum. No one had to die today- the red mob had plenty of time and warnings to leave. They chose to stay and fight and die while their fugitive criminal leader relaxes in Dubai. I feel sorry for these gullible pawns who have wasted their lives for something they don't even understand.

Since when was the government handed a carte-blanche to kill Thai civilians? If they are doing something against the law, they should be arrested and brought into court in front of a judge. Not just shot on the streets.

The government's legitimacy has not been verified. That's however precisely what the people are asking for. If you are a legitimate government, hold elections and legitimize yourself. Abhisit should have nothing to fear if the people are behind him.

Nobody is being paid to come demonstrate. Either provide proof or stop lying. All they have been given is money to pay for gas to drive to Bangkok.

I guess officially that would be when Taksin killed several thousand people????

[davethailand]

To me it looks like it was the protesters that used REAL bullets, not the troops.

Does the guy at the end of this video look like a protester or like a soldier? Note the fire coming out of his gun. No rubber bullets.

Fire coming out of a gun = live round??? You're not THAT dumb, are you???

Does your rubber bullet gun have fire coming out when it shoots? You clearly know nothing about guns. Fire comes out of a gun when there is an explosion. Rubber bullets don't cause explosions. Live ammunition does.

So what propels them? fresh air?

[helvetian]

I guess officially that would be when Taksin killed several thousand people????

Why hasn't the Abhisit government done anything to bring those of the extrajudicial killings to justice, in the 16 months in office?

[Jingthing]

Since when was the government handed a carte-blanche to kill Thai civilians? If they are doing something against the law, they should be arrested and brought into court in front of a judge. Not just shot on the streets.

How do you peacefully arrest people who are attacking you with sharp spears, clubbing your head, and throwing Molotov cocktails? None of this would have happened, none at all, if the red shirts had kept their PR promise to be peaceful. ALL of the blood is on the red shirt leaders, who shameless incited this violence. They have their "martyrs" now. That was what they, the reds, have brought on themselves.

[BigBikeBKK]

Nobody is being paid to come demonstrate. Either provide proof or stop lying. All they have been given is money to pay for gas to drive to Bangkok.

Sure- go on and believe the red lies if you want to. They seem to work on uneducated farmers and farang. Most of us know better.

Wow- that wad of cash will buy a lot of gas, won't it?

Busted!

[thepodest]

The deaths of some protesters is the fault of the government, but this does not make the Reds the "good guy". I have to say that I still have no respect for Reds, especially its leaders. Reds disrupted the city. Government tries to restore it. Government went over the line.

I am very sorry for those who lost their lives.

PS. I like also remind that soldiers also lost their lives and suffered injuries too. Some protesters were also armed.

[michemiche]

sad reality is here.............. some people died, respect for them, but red shirts have finally what they wanted, some fighting and some bloods on their hands, all this will not end in a peacefull happening, its pretty sure, its just a beginning. All people (first people who live in center bangkok) are tired of this situation and it must end very soon for sure.

thaskin is a dictatot and his army are ready tom fight until dewad, but at what price (how much he pay for a die one ???)

anyway, red or yellow or pink, what he big changes for a country without real political leader???????????????

imafine the same things in uk, or germany or france, ahhahahahha

all people laughing, 100 000 people triying to make a 'REVOLUTION' in a country of 60 000 000 people.................

<deleted>............ what the fuc_k

et pour parler ma langue, personne en a rien a foutre de ces 100 000 chemises rouges dechainees dans l;e centre de bangkok

font juste chier le monde entier y compris les thais qui vivent ici,,,,,,,,,,,,,

du balai

bon, c'est bon pour le commerce des chemises............... merde y ont du faire un max de benef avewndre du rouge, aahaahhhahaah

[CLOD]

Hang your head in shame abisit.

You just could not resist it, could you, that or the amarts gun.

Another row of crimes for your human rights abuse charge sheet.

History now records you as a murderer.

You will be answerable for your crimes.

[needforspeed]

Can't admit that underestimating the protest determination from the start by the government and many others has caused this situation?

That is the undeniable fact.......because if the potential had been assessed correctly the protest would not have been allowed to even enter Bangkok. That is what this regime is also guilty of......complacency!!!!

Oh I'm sure Thaksin was guilty of complacency in his time too....so that will make everything, even and the deaths, ok then....in your world?

Get real- Prime Minister Abhisit has been on the record clearly stating that welcomes free speech and peaceful protest, but when the red shirts go from peaceful protest to illegal occupation the government has to act to restore law and order. A small minority can not be allowed to disrupt the lives of the majority. The only thing Abhisit is guilty of is being too patient and too soft with the mob and their criminal leaders. Glad to see he's finally putting his foot down.

Agree for 100%

[473geo]

d

All except the below, which are facts:

- Abhisit hasn't addressed the concerns of the poor.

- Abhisit has ordered force to be used against protesters, including live ammunition, as shown in the video above.

- Abhisit's actions have killed 15 Thais so far, injuring nearly 600.

Other than that, it's one sided, yes.

What concerns??? I only remember hearing "DISSOLVE THE HOUSE" "WE WANT REELECTION" during the negotiation

I think they have the impression nobody in BKK hears their voice.........

Was the house dissolved then??

I thought you were talking about some policy changes. This "concern" does not only affect the poor. It affects the country as a whole. People in BKK did hear their voice as the "negotitation" was shown in television. Maybe not everybody wants to given in to these "concerns". Democracy doesn't equal to getting what you want when you protest.

So they wanted the government dissolved and a new election and this was not accepted

There are those who say they wanted violence - it appears they got that then!!!

I think this is called selective hearing.......perhaps their complaint is justified?

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I guess officially that would be when Taksin killed several thousand people????

Why hasn't the Abhisit government done anything to bring those of the extrajudicial killings to justice, in the 16 months in office?

That is a great question, I truly wish they would make that their top priority instead of pissing around with the corrupt money issues. Doesn't mean that eventually this or some other government won't get around to it. Look how long it has taken for the Khmer Rouge trials to begin or the Rwanda or Sebia etc etc.

[jucel]

Here is the proof that government forces have shot live bullets at the red shirts, not into the air as claimed by Abhisit:

Video Link

just by looking at some of the pictures on facebook you can tell they were live rounds. plastic bullets dont take off the top of heads!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...id=383671402050

That might be a baton wound!?

im not sure if batons take off the top of a head. also bbc news reported live rounds being shot http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8613482.stm

[NanaFoods]

Sad days for Thailand, indeed.

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

However, Thaskin was undoubtedly corrupt to the core. And as far as I see things transpiring now, Thaksin has declared war on his own country using essentially paid mercenaries. He should be arrested for treason, along with the Red leaders, and anyone responsible for the bombs, destruction, etc.

[davethailand]

Sad days for Thailand, indeed.

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

However, Thaskin was undoubtedly corrupt to the core. And as far as I see things transpiring now, Thaksin has declared war on his own country using essentially paid mercenaries. He should be arrested for treason, along with the Red leaders, and anyone responsible for the bombs, destruction, etc.

Good post.

[BigBikeBKK]

Here is the proof that government forces have shot live bullets at the red shirts, not into the air as claimed by Abhisit:

Video Link

just by looking at some of the pictures on facebook you can tell they were live rounds. plastic bullets dont take off the top of heads!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...id=383671402050

That might be a baton wound!?

im not sure if batons take off the top of a head. also bbc news reported live rounds being shot http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8613482.stm

Rubber bullets can certainly be lethal, especially if taken to the head at close range... The videos are already out there- the reds wanted to fight and got what they asked for. Som nam na.

[BigBikeBKK]

Sad days for Thailand, indeed.

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

However, Thaskin was undoubtedly corrupt to the core. And as far as I see things transpiring now, Thaksin has declared war on his own country using essentially paid mercenaries. He should be arrested for treason, along with the Red leaders, and anyone responsible for the bombs, destruction, etc.

Good post.

+1 Well said.

[jucel]

from wiki -

Non-lethal or less-lethal rounds are firearm rounds which are designed to incapacitate, but not kill, a target. The rounds rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to accomplish this incapacitation. Rubber bullets, wax bullets, plastic bullets, beanbag rounds, and rubber bullets with electroshock effect (e.g. Taser XREP rounds) are less lethal than conventional metal bullets, and are also propelled at lower speed. (Gunpowder is not used, only a percussion cap.)

[Bkung]

However, he added that it would be a problem if Thaksin agitated his followers to commit an act of terrorism. "That's a different situation. That would be illegal in Sweden, too," he said

NOW HE COMMITED ,SO BARRED HIM !

[thepodest]

473geo,

Who the h_ell are you talking about? Who wanted the violence? It seems to me that it was the Reds whereas Abhsit has remained peaceful from the beginning compared to the attitude of the Reds.

The "violence" occurred due to government's effort to store Bangkok to its normal state. This is the wish of the majority people, and the government's duty. Violence unfortunately occurred as part of the government's effort. I really wish that there could have been no violence, but given the Reds' attitude and the number, it was almost impossible. To simply put, violence did not happen because a group of people wanted violence. It happened because the government try to restore Bangkok. Again, I wish that there were no violence and deaths.

PS. The government made a mistake killing people, but it still does not make Reds the "good guy"

[helvetian]

Honestly, if you're too dumb to understand how a rubber bullet works you don't have to take my word- just look it up, ok? Rubber bullets are propelled by gunpowder the same as regular bullets. Get it?!

jucel looked it up for you. You're wrong. Rubber bullets are NOT propelled by gunpowder and they DON'T cause an explosion.

from wiki -

Non-lethal or less-lethal rounds are firearm rounds which are designed to incapacitate, but not kill, a target. The rounds rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to accomplish this incapacitation. Rubber bullets, wax bullets, plastic bullets, beanbag rounds, and rubber bullets with electroshock effect (e.g. Taser XREP rounds) are less lethal than conventional metal bullets, and are also propelled at lower speed. (Gunpowder is not used, only a percussion cap.)

[Loose Cannon]

from wiki -

Non-lethal or less-lethal rounds are firearm rounds which are designed to incapacitate, but not kill, a target. The rounds rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to accomplish this incapacitation. Rubber bullets, wax bullets, plastic bullets, beanbag rounds, and rubber bullets with electroshock effect (e.g. Taser XREP rounds) are less lethal than conventional metal bullets, and are also propelled at lower speed. (Gunpowder is not used, only a percussion cap.)

Enough ignorance being spewed already. No gunpowder, but still a small blast. Clear in this 101 video.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Honestly, if you're too dumb to understand how a rubber bullet works you don't have to take my word- just look it up, ok? Rubber bullets are propelled by gunpowder the same as regular bullets. Get it?!

jucel looked it up for you. You're wrong. Rubber bullets are NOT propelled by gunpowder and they DON'T cause an explosion.

from wiki -

Non-lethal or less-lethal rounds are firearm rounds which are designed to incapacitate, but not kill, a target. The rounds rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to accomplish this incapacitation. Rubber bullets, wax bullets, plastic bullets, beanbag rounds, and rubber bullets with electroshock effect (e.g. Taser XREP rounds) are less lethal than conventional metal bullets, and are also propelled at lower speed. (Gunpowder is not used, only a percussion cap.)

Check out this youtube video showing what a rubber bullet round looks like when fired. You will clearly see flames coming out of the barrel of the gun.

[SiriusBlack1]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that