Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[ItsMeMike]

Well said, I agree 100%.

Sad days for Thailand, indeed.

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

However, Thaskin was undoubtedly corrupt to the core. And as far as I see things transpiring now, Thaksin has declared war on his own country using essentially paid mercenaries. He should be arrested for treason, along with the Red leaders, and anyone responsible for the bombs, destruction, etc.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that

yes great idea, then whenever the next group decides to protest they can again dissolve parliamnet and we can keep this cycle going. Well thought out, you must be an advisor to the reds???

[BigBikeBKK]

Honestly, if you're too dumb to understand how a rubber bullet works you don't have to take my word- just look it up, ok? Rubber bullets are propelled by gunpowder the same as regular bullets. Get it?!

jucel looked it up for you. You're wrong. Rubber bullets are NOT propelled by gunpowder and they DON'T cause an explosion.

from wiki -

Non-lethal or less-lethal rounds are firearm rounds which are designed to incapacitate, but not kill, a target. The rounds rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to accomplish this incapacitation. Rubber bullets, wax bullets, plastic bullets, beanbag rounds, and rubber bullets with electroshock effect (e.g. Taser XREP rounds) are less lethal than conventional metal bullets, and are also propelled at lower speed. (Gunpowder is not used, only a percussion cap.)

<deleted>, it's obvious English is not your native language- read jucel's post again. Taser XREP rounds are not propelled by gunpowder. Did you see anyone firing Tasers in Bangkok? No, of course not.

Rubber bullets fired from SHOTGUNS, like the ones we see in the videos in Bangkok, are propelled using standard shotgun cartridges which contain??? You guessed it! GUNPOWDER!

[473geo]

Sad days for Thailand, indeed.

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

However, Thaskin was undoubtedly corrupt to the core. And as far as I see things transpiring now, Thaksin has declared war on his own country using essentially paid mercenaries. He should be arrested for treason, along with the Red leaders, and anyone responsible for the bombs, destruction, etc.

The reasoning is, the government of the day, on the day, made a decision to use the troops to remove the protestors. Those that think the occasion demanded such action, support the government, and, as in some recent posts appear to think som nam na.

On the other hand there are some who see the use of troops as being heavy handed and provocative and would have preffered to see more negotiation. This group appear to support the idea that the government had a choice, and chose to use the troops, which escalated the protest to a state of confrontation and violence causing the casualties.

I doubt either view is ever likely align with the other.

[jackr]

I am curious how some posters "reason" that this is somehow Abhisit's fault?

Abhisit attempted talks and was even willing to discuss moving up the election, right?

But apparently the Reds dont want a peaceful compromise - it is clear their goal is mayhem.

I have not heard of any corruption on Abhisit's part, and it seems he is doing what his job necessitates in this situation.

Because, unfortunately, not everyone thinks like us and some, quite clearly, have the blinkers on. Mark has bent over backwards to accommodate these people and his only crime is not preventing them camping out in the capital. He's the type of smart-thinking, educated, genuine person this country needs as a PM whatever side he's on.

The issue with soldiers firing real bullets; I say too right if they were. All this talk of the heavy-handedness of the army and Abhisit has blood on his hands; get over yourselves! They went in with rubbers and saw their buddies dragged down with live ammo and bombs by a crazed mob. Lets face it, if the army went in with the intent of taking them out, there wouldn't be a Red left standing! They were clearly under orders not to go in and do that, but if it gets out of hand and you're being shot at, defensive measures need to be taken.

[balo]

This is the worst picture I have ever seen. Its so sad

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...100000968729112

[Jingthing]

This is the worst picture I have ever seen. Its so sad

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...100000968729112

What is that? Martyr porn?

So the dead soldiers killed by the red shirts are chopped liver then? This didn't have to happen. The red shirt leaders INCITED it to happen. All of the blood is on the red shirt leader's hands. What is the delay in carrying out the arrest warrants on them?

Edited April 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[LaoPo]

Fifteen die as Thai troops try to clear protest camps

At least 15 people have been killed and 500 hurt in clashes in the Thai capital Bangkok, as troops tried to retake areas from anti-government protesters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8612783.stm

LaoPo

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

This is the worst picture I have ever seen. Its so sad

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...100000968729112

That is a terrible picture for sure but did you notice the quote below? It says the army did this to unarmed protestors???? They did not look unarmed in any of the videos I saw. I think all should take a beat and look at the first few videos of the beginning of the violence, it is easy to see who escalated the violence (please take your blinders off first). If you play with firs you will get burned.

[rametindallas]

what rock do you live under? did you somehow miss the publicly televised negotiations that went on for several days between the government and red shirts? problem is, the red shirt leaders care about one thing only and it's certainly NOT the poor or the farmers. The government didn't crack down on the protesters in order to stay in power but rather to liberate Bangkok from a paid mob that has caused massive disruptions in the capitol of the nation. Calling the PM a dictator really makes you look quite ignorant- the legitimacy of this government has been verified as nauseum. No one had to die today- the red mob had plenty of time and warnings to leave. They chose to stay and fight and die while their fugitive criminal leader relaxes in Dubai. I feel sorry for these gullible pawns who have wasted their lives for something they don't even understand.

Since when was the government handed a carte-blanche to kill Thai civilians? If they are doing something against the law, they should be arrested and brought into court in front of a judge. Not just shot on the streets.

The government's legitimacy has not been verified. That's however precisely what the people are asking for. If you are a legitimate government, hold elections and legitimize yourself. Abhisit should have nothing to fear if the people are behind him.

Nobody is being paid to come demonstrate. Either provide proof or stop lying. All they have been given is money to pay for gas to drive to Bangkok.

How can I be sure you're not Rainman in disguise?

[BSJ]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that

Do that and problem solved! 21 pages before we get the solution.

[MellowYellow]

This is the worst picture I have ever seen. Its so sad

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...100000968729112

What is that? Martyr porn?

So the dead soldiers killed by the red shirts are chopped liver then? This didn't have to happen. The red shirt leaders INCITED it to happen. All of the blood is on the red shirt leader's hands. What is the delay in carrying out the arrest warrants on them?

Now you sink to defaming, celebrating and mocking the dead?

Ever classy TVF.

[BigBikeBKK]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that

yes great idea, then whenever the next group decides to protest they can again dissolve parliamnet and we can keep this cycle going. Well thought out, you must be an advisor to the reds???

LOL- yes, that the vicious cycle that Abhisit is trying to stop- if all it takes in Thailand is a hundred thousand or so protesters in the streets to call for new elections then there will NEVER be a government and Thailand will be a failed state. For the record I support neither RED nor YELLOW. I support a stable government that can move the country forward towards peace and stability. Why do so many people here ASSUME that an anti-red comment means the poster is pro-yellow? Reds and Yellows are at the extremes. Thailand needs to follow her Buddhist roots and find a MIDDLE WAY. Abhisit is trying hard to find that middle way and I wish him and Thailand luck!

[rametindallas]

To me it looks like it was the protesters that used REAL bullets, not the troops.

Does the guy at the end of this video look like a protester or like a soldier? Note the fire coming out of his gun. No rubber bullets.

Fire coming out of a gun = live round??? You're not THAT dumb, are you???

Does your rubber bullet gun have fire coming out when it shoots? You clearly know nothing about guns. Fire comes out of a gun when there is an explosion. Rubber bullets don't cause explosions. Live ammunition does.

So, you're sayin' rubber bullets just 'bounce' out of the barrel; nothing needed to propel them?

[473geo]

473geo,

Who the h_ell are you talking about? Who wanted the violence? It seems to me that it was the Reds whereas Abhsit has remained peaceful from the beginning compared to the attitude of the Reds.

The "violence" occurred due to government's effort to store Bangkok to its normal state. This is the wish of the majority people, and the government's duty. Violence unfortunately occurred as part of the government's effort. I really wish that there could have been no violence, but given the Reds' attitude and the number, it was almost impossible. To simply put, violence did not happen because a group of people wanted violence. It happened because the government try to restore Bangkok. Again, I wish that there were no violence and deaths.

PS. The government made a mistake killing people, but it still does not make Reds the "good guy"

Calm down and read my post again.....it says there are those that say they wanted violence.....the reds.....ok and they got it.

I have also never painted the reds as the good guys......what people tend to assume is that because I criticise elements of one side I therefore support the actions of the other. I guess I can see why people might come up with that thought......but it is actually a very narrow view. My main reasoning is simple, I think there could have been more talk if only to keep the protest at a controlled level. Control and defuse. I do believe that had the troops not been sent in, there would have been no deaths as yet. So I ask why the decision to try and forcibly remove the protestors and risk the happenings of today. It is my belief that casualties should have been avoided at all costs. It is also my belief that Abhisit was pressured into a decision he personally did not wish to make just yet. That is my view. Make of it what you will.

Edited April 10, 2010 by 473geo

[LaoPo]

This is the worst picture I have ever seen. Its so sad

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...100000968729112

What is that? Martyr porn?

So the dead soldiers killed by the red shirts are chopped liver then? This didn't have to happen. The red shirt leaders INCITED it to happen. All of the blood is on the red shirt leader's hands. What is the delay in carrying out the arrest warrants on them?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3390...d=1402700516459

I Like this photo............suppose they are all Thai citizens so no chance of deportation then?

How dare you writing a comment like that?; you're talking about a human being who just died.

Shame!

LaoPo

[NanaFoods]

QUOTE jackr -- "He's the type of smart-thinking, educated, genuine person this country needs as a PM whatever side he's on."

That is my impression as well. I would think Thais should be impressed with the fact that he appears to be a straight shooter -- not corrupt -- something this country needs desperately.

The incredible ignorance coming out of the Red camp is staggering -- blaming Abhisit for the economy in Thailand.... while ignoring the world-wide recession.... and crediting Thaskin for the economic "boom"..... when there was actually a worldwide economic bubble (whereas central banks caused both). Thaksin is their hero because he is rich - yet somehow "represents" the poor? All the while playing them for the greedy fools they are, by offering them a pittance to do his dirty work of revenge. Sad.

[rametindallas]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that

Do you know any other tunes? You've worn this record out playing it so many times.

[thepodest]

473geo,

Who the h_ell are you talking about? Who wanted the violence? It seems to me that it was the Reds whereas Abhsit has remained peaceful from the beginning compared to the attitude of the Reds.

The "violence" occurred due to government's effort to store Bangkok to its normal state. This is the wish of the majority people, and the government's duty. Violence unfortunately occurred as part of the government's effort. I really wish that there could have been no violence, but given the Reds' attitude and the number, it was almost impossible. To simply put, violence did not happen because a group of people wanted violence. It happened because the government try to restore Bangkok. Again, I wish that there were no violence and deaths.

PS. The government made a mistake killing people, but it still does not make Reds the "good guy"

Calm down and read my post again.....it says there are those that say they wanted violence.....the reds.....ok and they got it.

I have also never painted the reds as the good guys......what people tend to assume is that because I criticise elements of one side I therefore support the actions of the other. I guess I can see why people might come up with that thought......but it is actually a very narrow view. My main reasoning is simple, I think there could have been more talk if only to keep the protest at a controlled level. Control and defuse. I do believe that had the troops not been sent in, there would have been no deaths as yet. So I ask why the decision to try and forcibly remove the protestors and risk the happenings of today. It is my belief that casualties should have been avoided at all costs. It is also my belief that Abhisit was pressured into a decision he personally did not wish to make just yet. That is my view. Make of it what you will.

Keep in mind how long has this protest been distrupting Bangkok and people's lives. Abhisit has been answering "no" to the question for the past month also, but now it looks like that patience has run out. I also believe that casualties should be avoided... but not "at all cost"....

[kurtgruen]

Sad, as in most cases, the peasants get riled up, by the rich and manipulating,to do their dirty work...the rich get richer and the poor end up dead or bloody (and still poor)

If this was truly a socialist move, then maybe, in the end, this senseless bloodshed could be justified, with the benefits for the poor in years to come, but it is not. Thaksin and his croonies pull the strings and pay the cash. This is all about one rich group fighting another rich group. All about money and power.

Thaksin is not Fidel Castro. Can't people get that through their heads???

Very sad to see the bloodshed.

On defense of the government, what were they to do? The demonstrations didn't remain peaceful, as planned. When you have demonstrators throwing lit up bottles of gasoline at you and granades, what is the government supposed to do. If it is to be seen, as doing its' job, it must supress the protests and get the protesters (of whom some have turned violent), out of there.

You can't fight fire bombs and grenades with rubber bullets.

I wonder where all this will lead? By the looks of it, no matter who wins, the poor will loose Yes, they will get thrown a few crumbs, to keep them quiet in the future, but that just isn't enough.

A sad day for Thailand, again, indeed

My condolances to those, who have lost family members and friends.

Edited April 10, 2010 by kurtgruen

[MengWan]

How dare you writing a comment like that?; you're talking about a human being who just died.

Shame!

LaoPo

Sure, in a WAR, there are dead people ...

The questions are "Who declared the WAR ?" and "Are those who declared the WAR to the

government feeling responsible ?" and "Are those who declared this WAR willing to fight till

the last drop of blood of this guy and his fellows ?" (their blood being safe)

Edited April 10, 2010 by MengWan

[473geo]

473geo,

Who the h_ell are you talking about? Who wanted the violence? It seems to me that it was the Reds whereas Abhsit has remained peaceful from the beginning compared to the attitude of the Reds.

The "violence" occurred due to government's effort to store Bangkok to its normal state. This is the wish of the majority people, and the government's duty. Violence unfortunately occurred as part of the government's effort. I really wish that there could have been no violence, but given the Reds' attitude and the number, it was almost impossible. To simply put, violence did not happen because a group of people wanted violence. It happened because the government try to restore Bangkok. Again, I wish that there were no violence and deaths.

PS. The government made a mistake killing people, but it still does not make Reds the "good guy"

Calm down and read my post again.....it says there are those that say they wanted violence.....the reds.....ok and they got it.

I have also never painted the reds as the good guys......what people tend to assume is that because I criticise elements of one side I therefore support the actions of the other. I guess I can see why people might come up with that thought......but it is actually a very narrow view. My main reasoning is simple, I think there could have been more talk if only to keep the protest at a controlled level. Control and defuse. I do believe that had the troops not been sent in, there would have been no deaths as yet. So I ask why the decision to try and forcibly remove the protestors and risk the happenings of today. It is my belief that casualties should have been avoided at all costs. It is also my belief that Abhisit was pressured into a decision he personally did not wish to make just yet. That is my view. Make of it what you will.

Keep in mind how long has this protest been distrupting Bangkok and people's lives. Abhisit has been answering "no" to the question for the past month also, but now it looks like that patience has run out. I also believe that casualties should be avoided... but not "at all cost"....

Death disrupts peoples lives too, it is a little more permanent than a protest for a few weeks......but I take your point.

[BigBikeBKK]

Calm down and read my post again.....it says there are those that say they wanted violence.....the reds.....ok and they got it.

I have also never painted the reds as the good guys......what people tend to assume is that because I criticise elements of one side I therefore support the actions of the other. I guess I can see why people might come up with that thought......but it is actually a very narrow view. My main reasoning is simple, I think there could have been more talk if only to keep the protest at a controlled level. Control and defuse. I do believe that had the troops not been sent in, there would have been no deaths as yet. So I ask why the decision to try and forcibly remove the protestors and risk the happenings of today. It is my belief that casualties should have been avoided at all costs. It is also my belief that Abhisit was pressured into a decision he personally did not wish to make just yet. That is my view. Make of it what you will.

Well said- Abhisit clearly did not want to use force but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He could not let the mobs occupy Bangkok indefinitely so in the end he had to act to restore law and order. There's a fine line between patience and impotence.

The citizens of Bangkok will no doubt be happy to have their city back!

I doubt very much that the Prime Minister wanted to use force but the obstinate mobs left him no choice. It is obvious from the pictures and videos that the army tried to use non lethal force to move the mob, but when attacked by weapons of all sorts they were justified to protect themselves and fight back.

Now we get the same accusations as last year- that the army is using live ammunition and hiding bodies when the pictures and videos clearly show that the mob refused to give and escalated the violence. Considering the number of dead and injured soldiers I'm amazed that they DIDN'T didn't use more lethal force against the violent mob.

Let us hope and pray that cooler heads will prevail today- and that everyone can enjoy a peaceful Songkran.

[Scott]

Several posts deleted. Please use the correct names of politicians. Please don't refer to other posters as 'dumb' or other inflammatory remarks.

[kurtgruen]

How bad is an election when Abhisit is so sure that he has the majority of the people backing him?

Exactly. Dissolve parliament, call elections, ask international monitors to oversee it. Problem solved.

That is what the red shirts want -- and what the yellow shirts explicitly say they do NOT want.

Funny how the yellow supporters here always fail to mention that

Do you know any other tunes? You've worn this record out playing it so many times.

Bull! The "Reds", in the past, have refused to have international monitors to oversee federal elections. Get your facts straight.

[thepodest]

473geo,

Who the h_ell are you talking about? Who wanted the violence? It seems to me that it was the Reds whereas Abhsit has remained peaceful from the beginning compared to the attitude of the Reds.

The "violence" occurred due to government's effort to store Bangkok to its normal state. This is the wish of the majority people, and the government's duty. Violence unfortunately occurred as part of the government's effort. I really wish that there could have been no violence, but given the Reds' attitude and the number, it was almost impossible. To simply put, violence did not happen because a group of people wanted violence. It happened because the government try to restore Bangkok. Again, I wish that there were no violence and deaths.

PS. The government made a mistake killing people, but it still does not make Reds the "good guy"

Calm down and read my post again.....it says there are those that say they wanted violence.....the reds.....ok and they got it.

I have also never painted the reds as the good guys......what people tend to assume is that because I criticise elements of one side I therefore support the actions of the other. I guess I can see why people might come up with that thought......but it is actually a very narrow view. My main reasoning is simple, I think there could have been more talk if only to keep the protest at a controlled level. Control and defuse. I do believe that had the troops not been sent in, there would have been no deaths as yet. So I ask why the decision to try and forcibly remove the protestors and risk the happenings of today. It is my belief that casualties should have been avoided at all costs. It is also my belief that Abhisit was pressured into a decision he personally did not wish to make just yet. That is my view. Make of it what you will.

Keep in mind how long has this protest been distrupting Bangkok and people's lives. Abhisit has been answering "no" to the question for the past month also, but now it looks like that patience has run out. I also believe that casualties should be avoided... but not "at all cost"....

Death disrupts peoples lives too, it is a little more permanent than a protest for a few weeks......but I take your point.

I agree. Also, death is something emotional... and may take away some logics of the people.. Now the whole world will look down upon Abhisit's governemnt. Now the media of countries around the world will mostly place all the blame on Abhisit's governemnt... Sadly... this shall be the downfall of Abhist and his government, and Red's so called "victory"...

So long Abhisit...

[bagheera65]

Listen, democracy is simple: there is elections and the one who win stay in power for four or five years depending of the country. If you don't like him, it'll be time to throw him out at the next election as people have the power to do this.

NOW, what is NOT democraty is when a bunch of people whether they're rich or poor decide to don't wait for the next election and to put the whole country in danger simply because, just like spoild childs, they want a change, NOW! There is 64 million people living in Thailand, since when 100000 people decide that it's time for a change and it must happens now! Abhisit already accepted to have ellections at the end of this year, can't they wait six months? You must be kidding.

If Abhisit had serious criminal charges on his record (like Thaksin had) or was totally corrupted (like Thaksin was) it would be different. But it was not the case.

The only reason why all this mess is happening is because of somebody totally SICK watching all this from his suite in Dubai or Moscow.

There is NOT ONE country in the world that would have allowed what Thaksin is doing to Thailand, specially when it's a guy who has divided a country that was not divided before and who should be in jail.

In the last ten years i never heard ONE THING said by Thaksin that was not a lie. Every word was there only to serve his thirst of power. Unfortunately these poor people of Northern Thailand believed him, thanks, too, to some thousand baths.

When people will understand that as long as Thaksin is alive the whole Thailand is in danger? The government tried to resolve the situation in a buddhist way, but you can't play buddhism when you have somebody in front who is a fascist and who lies all the time.

Everything which happened today, the death of these poor people or soldiers, EVERYTHING is the fault of Thaksin who is at the origin of the demonstrations.

Thaksin is a monster and should be eliminate NOW before his sick ego destroys the whole kingdom.

Edited April 10, 2010 by bagheera65

[CosmicSurfer]

No one is putting the blame where it REALLY Exists...

The incompetent Police and Army leaders that were Ordered to put down this insurrection (because that is what it has become). The Red leaders have committed treason by turning this from peaceful protest to violently attempting to overthrow a legitimately elected government... YES.. legitimately elected, as per the Thai constitution, after TWO Thaksin surrogate governments were disolved by the Supreme Court for vote buying and corruption.

The Red leaders should be arrested immediately on grounds of promoting and instigating a violent insurrection. There is no hope for any legitimate government to survive, now or in the future otherwise. If they aren't, then the next group will just follow in their footsteps.. The only lesson is that violence pays!

And.. Just which fool ordered the confrontation to happen in the Dark, with no lights?

Who shot off Tear-gas without issuing masks to their own troops?

Why haven't all streets leading to the sites been blocked off so no new demonstrators can join?

Starve them out, cut off all food, Water, services and access!

If the police can't handle basic crowd control, then they should call Mayor Daley and ask for some help from the Chicago Police department.

But, seriously, Abhisit is in real trouble with out knowing who he can trust. All the corruption and job buying has obviously led to a situation where the totally inept have risen to the top of Thai security forces. It doesn't take much knowledge in basic Crowd control procedures to see how little training anyone has, either on the street, or in the Command vehicles.

Finally, as everyone know, that there is No end to this... A new election will only result in another round of vote-buying and calls for political party dissolution. Thaksin's surrogates will win and the Yellows will take the place of the Reds on the street... and on and on it goes.

Just when I'm in the start-up faze of a new business.. Again I must reconsider even staying here in this disintegrating environment.. there is little hope left for this country to ever make it back from the brink, as it continues to slip deeper into self-destruction.

CS

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I agree. Also, death is something emotional... and may take away some logics of the people.. Now the whole world will look down upon Abhisit's governemnt. Now the media of countries around the world will mostly place all the blame on Abhisit's governemnt... Sadly... this shall be the downfall of Abhist and his government, and Red's so called "victory"...

So long Abhisit...

Yes, i am sure all the other countries would have much more respect for Abhisit if he just let the reds do whatever they wanted (sarcasm in case you can't tell). He followed proper protocol and gave the reds every opportunity to follow the rule of law. Taksin is banking on being able to use these poor peoples deaths to his advantage to sway popular opinion. Thankfully there seems to be enough video evidence to show who really wanted the violence here.

[OzMick]

.

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

I said they were attacked at their sit in.

They did other things too but never killed anyone in the process.

Those things gave no one the right to attack them with military weapons.

Bear in mind they returned weapons taken from the police and army this week some of which were probably used against them

Precisely

Precision is being able to get the same result repeatedly, which most of your posts do. Do not confuse it with accuracy, which is getting the correct result.

Remember some of the post sput here over the last week:

Abhisit is a puppet of the military

the military will not support Abhisit

All wrong!

This govt has shown amazing restraint, and had it called weakness, cowardice, etc. They are still showing restraint, and very slow escalation to give anyone with a brain time to realise that the games are over. Yes, 10+ people are dead, and I call that restraint. Each M16 has a 30 round magazine, which it can empty in about 10 secs. A few boys panic (and I've seen no sign of that yet) and you will see what bloodshed really looks like. I'm hoping it won't happen. But if you tried to jab me in the face with a bamboo pole, you would be brown bread!