Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[looping]

Respect to Mr.Abhisit for remaining firm in the face of a horrible situation. Regarding the dead red shirts I wonder if Thaksin will thank their families for supporting his personal cause. Maybe a cash settlement to encourage more of the same? He probably slept well last night, knowing that the much awaited deaths will give him an advantage. It's so sad to see the poor people of Thailand being manipulated in this way...

[zorro1]

19 dead, 807 injured in Bangkok clashes

By DUANGKAMON SAJIRAWATTANAKUL

THE NATION ON SUNDAY

BANGKOK: -- At least nineteen people were reported to have died and 807 injured from clashes between security forces and red-shirt demonstrators in different parts of the capital, National Emergency Centre's director Phetpong Kamchornkijakarn said late last night.

He said of the casualties, nine were civilians and two were soldiers. Of the civilians killed, eight were red-shirt protesters, while the ninth was a Japanese man who worked as a photographer for Thomson-Reuters.

As of press time on Saturday, six of the dead, including the photographer, had been sent to Central Hospital; two sent to Hua Chiew Hospital; three to Vajira Hospital, which included two soldiers and a 50-year-old red-shirt protester who succumbed to a heart attack.

The Japanese photographer, Hiroyuki Muramoto, died from a gunshot wound to his chest.

Of the red-shirt protesters, one of the dead was identified as 38-year-old Wasan Phoothong, who worked as a tailor in Samut Prakan province; while one was a 43-year-old guard for the movement. Another red-shirt protester killed was Sawat Wa-ngam, who, according to protest leader weng Tojirakarn, had died from a head injury.

Of the two dead soldiers, one was killed by a gunshot wound to his neck.

According to reports, the biggest clash took place in Bangkok's Khok Wua intersection, where about 20 soldiers, a resident and a protester were injured. The victims were taken to hospitals nearby.

Vajira Hospital's director Dr Wanchai Charoenchokthavee said 51 injured people were admitted to the hospital, including 13 soldiers and one protester, who was sustained severe injuries to his lungs and stomach. Another protester was shot in his bottom. As of press time, the injured were undergoing surgery.

Earlier reports said another foreign journalist was shot in the head at Khok Wua intersection, and Wanchai said a foreigner called John Yinglin was among the injured. However, he could not confirm if he was a foreign journalist.

Meanwhile, Central Hospital director Dr Pitchaya Nakwatchara said yesterday that 30 injured people had been brought in from the Khok Wua intersection and Makkawan-Rangsan Bridge protest sites, of which 29 were civilians and one was a solider who had sustained head injury. Of the injured, three had gunshot wounds, including an ABC-News freelance photographer Winai Ditthajorn who was shot in his left leg.

He added that red-shirt protesters had also presented medical staff with some rubber bullets found in the clash site. Pitchaya confirmed that his hospital staff was on standby round the clock.

The hospital director later revealed X-rays of the three injured people, showing that Winai had been shot by what appeared to be a real bullet, while the two red-shirt protesters, Samak Khamsameu and Tag Benjamas, had been hit by a rubber bullet. As of press time, the three were undergoing surgery and will be under observation for three days.

Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanavisit, who is also chairman of the National Emergency Centre, said of the six soldiers sent to Siriraj Hospital, one had sustained a gunshot. He went on say that he had told all 79 emergency centres nationwide to work with Bangkok hospitals.

Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand's secretary-general Chatree Charoencheevakul said he expected the numbers of casualties to rise further, adding that he had put 1,000 medical staff and 150 ambulances on standby.

-- The Nation 2010-04-11

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Can you imagine a PM in the UK serviving after his own military did this to Englishman?

NO

807 imjured.

over 15 dead.

The military opened up with Military fast fire rifles on Thai people.

So much for that nonsense about Thais love thai.

Obviously there was not much love in this case.

Your joking? anyone pulling a gun during a peaceful protest and shooting real bullets and killing a soldier or policeman will be taken out in a flash, unfortunately it only takes one or two before confusion sets in and innocent peaceful bystanders are killed . The military will continue to be enticed to shed blood by the hardcore fanatic and more innocents will die. Think of it as human sacrifice and common practice in wars and uprisings. It all helps the cause ironically

[clinique]

If it is proven that some of these people that died were paid by Thaksin to be there I would think he could be up on some very serious charges '

none of this would have happened if the red shirts were left to govern the country as duly elected...

That's the truth. Democracy has been stolen in this country several times since 2006. The reds have a good point...

Abhisit has offered to hold the elections in nine months from now. Seems very fair to me. With some negotiations the Reds could probably have reduced this timeframe to 6 months. But no, they stick to an unrealistic 15 days. People have died because of this stubborn attitude and many more were injured.

The reds could have had a victory.

By the way, when were the red shirts (except Jatuporn who is a MP) duly elected????

He is being manipulated /controlled by the Military. The reason for 9 months is so themilitary re-shuffle can be completed under this government.

That is the whole point ,, this government is backed by the military elite, and does its bidding.. Thats why the red shirts want it out..

[chadintheusa]

"Thaksin would like the red-shirts to use their own discretion whether they want to carry on fighting or end the protest," the opposition Puea Thai Party MP said.

from Bangkok post website

Looks like Thaksin is washing his hands of any responsibility. Now it is the Reds own fault if they stay. That's the kind of leader he is.

[Jerrytheyoung]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

This is the opportunity for Abhisit to offer an olive branch which will cool down a little the situation. even Barhnam in its majority was not following him on the seizure of the Red Shirt TV.

It is a mistake from day one: in our democratic Countries, we have to support from Ultra Left to Ultra Right medias. Nobody (or nearly) listens to the extremists. Opening the red Shirt TV is without important consequence. For the sake of Thailand, this is a first gesture to do....Re-open their TV

Edited April 11, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[way2muchcoffee]

The solution as i said before was very simple . If you are the PM and yu can not negociate or stop a protest except by using live ammunition then you simply RESIGN . There is no shame in that at all . Abhisit is very very much disliked in the country side FYI , he is a golden boy with a pretty face acting as a lap dog to those who are responsible for the misery of the Isaan ppl (3000 baths per month , familly of 4 , try to live on that) and moreover he stole their vote . Had he resigned he would have triggered a political crisis followed by a move by the whole political class to form a governement of national unity and they stood a very good chance to have negociated with the reds . No need elections in 15 days for that .

It would be irresponsible to resign until the city has been cleared of violent protesters. After that he probably will. It may even be part of the negotiations. However, until the redshirts are willing to negotiate, and the result of that negotiation is the cessation of all demonstrations, the PM cannot step down.

Edited April 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[CosmicSurfer]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

LOGIC.... Where have you been... TIT... This is Thailand.

There is NO logic in anything about this place.

Just take a walk down any street and open your eyes to what you see around you.

If I went into detail, I'd end up writing a book!

But the single best example is probably the "Bicycle path" down the middle of the Sukhumvit sidewalk.

Mai go hock!!!!

CS

Edited April 11, 2010 by CosmicSurfer

[looping]

I'm sorry was it an ELECTION Thaksin wants or an AUCTION!!!???

[moresomekl]

Hello Moresomekl,

Currently downtown BKK. Thank you.

No disapointment here since obviously you forgot your former posts (the original one I was responding to as well as the one suggesting my post "fake"). Did they disapear by chance or on purpose?

Refreshing your memory:

You stated:

"no other democratic countries in the world would have a change of majority without general election . And thats a fact. Coalition or not . The only way to remove an elected governement is through either new general elections or a coup ... in a democracy that is"

Hey Mitker

Nice to see you here . How is it in your country , Belgium , yu said ?

Well Belgium has been governed by a catholic party led coalition for the last

60 years . At every general election they are voted in .

Sorry to disapoint you but there no relation whatsoever

with the Abhisit illegitimate regime . Nor with the thai situation by

any strech of imagination.

Belgium elected for 60 years through general election

MPs that form a governement where the catholic party is the leading partner

The PM thus is always from the catholic party , fair and square

Thailand elects a parliament in 2007 where the PPP is the leading partner

and runs a coalition governement but oh miracle without general election the governement

switch to beeing run by the dems which never were the leading force the last time

the voters were consulted , in fact they were in the opposition .

All these made possible by a court that dissolved the TRT before , and the PPP after while letting the dems

off the hook for the same corruption charges

You should return to school and learn what democracy means .

And remove those welding glasses that obscure your view

I am sorry but you are wrong and that is it .

Abhisit is illegitimate .

edit : Typo

Edited April 11, 2010 by moresomekl

[way2muchcoffee]

You havent replied on shutting down the TV station which started the

violence

Where have you travelled lately ? Somalia , Uganda or Sudan ?

Which democratic governement sends armed soldier with live ammo against

civilians . They send police with tear gas , sound projector , water canon .

Takes a bit longer but usually no deads .

If the governement cant train properly his police in crowd control

they have no one to blame but themselves

But then you are right in one thing ,Abhisit governement dont answer to the people

he is illegitimate , so what for bother ...

Yes. They did all those things first. Then they were attacked with spears, chairs, bottles, firebombs, guns, and grenades. And they reacted.

[tominbkk]

The solution as i said before was very simple . If you are the PM and yu can not negociate or stop a protest except by using live ammunition then you simply RESIGN . There is no shame in that at all . Abhisit is very very much disliked in the country side FYI , he is a golden boy with a pretty face acting as a lap dog to those who are responsible for the misery of the Isaan ppl (3000 baths per month , familly of 4 , try to live on that) and moreover he stole their vote . Had he resigned he would have triggered a political crisis followed by a move by the whole political class to form a governement of national unity and they stood a very good chance to have negociated with the reds . No need elections in 15 days for that .

It would be irresponsible to resign until the city has been cleared of violent protesters. After that he probably will. It may even be part of the negotiations. However, until the redshirts are willing to negotiate, and the result of that negotiation is the cessation of all demonstrations, the PM cannot step down.

Unfortunately you make way too much sense for the one track minded red mob. They won't stop until Arisman is made Prime Minister, who can then hand over to Thaksin on his glorious return to his lost billions. May sound ridiculous, but is pretty much what they are asking for.

[dom samui]

Have a look here : Great job!

http://www.youtube.com/user/thaifaq#p/a/u/1/AATZQeLIUCY

[CosmicSurfer]

....

He is being manipulated /controlled by the Military. The reason for 9 months is so themilitary re-shuffle can be completed under this government.

That is the whole point ,, this government is backed by the military elite, and does its bidding.. Thats why the red shirts want it out..

The Military reshuffle is only one of many reasons...

The MOST IMPORTANT being passing a Budget for the next year, so the government can continue to function, and the Farmers can get their Rice Subsidy.

CS

[clinique]

So the whole point is this country is trying/claiming to be a democracy, and move away from rule by the elite (including the military).

But it isnt, the military control the PM,,and he will not dissolve the House until they get their annual reshuffle.

Plus if the PM felt that he is 'right' and holds control' and is assured re-election then in a democratic society he would have no problem calling for a dissolution.. But he isnt sure so he wont.

The reds have legitimate grievances, their ONLY reason is NOT Mr T.

All of us farangs are better off than many Thais, we bitch and complain at home when the government raised taxex, BUT normally we are compensated in some other way.

NOT in Thailand, it isthe poor people who are hit by the majority of these taxes, not the elite..

This is a controlled democracy.

many posters here obviously do not know the background, history or facts in this country.

[rametindallas]

The group at the same time are waiting for 3,000 more Red Shirt protesters to join their forces from Klong 4 and Phan Fa. Together the protesters plan to force their entrance into the ThaiCom compound if negotiations fail.

F(&*$%%# UNBELIEVABLE.

The red supporters here talk about the "innocent red protestors" and try and put the blame on the Abhisit and the army.

Then the leaders talk about FORCING their way into a government installation.

Can a red shirt supporter explain the logic in this?

LOGIC.... Where have you been... TIT... This is Thailand.

There is NO logic in anything about this place.

Just take a walk down any street and open your eyes to what you see around you.

If I went into detail, I'd end up writing a book! But the single best example is probably the "Bicycle path" down the middle of the Sukhumvit sidewalk.

Mai go hock!!!!

CS

You got that right! That Sukumvit 'bicycle lane' right through all those vendor's stalls is one of the things that makes 'Amazing Thailand', trufely amazing.

[moresomekl]

You havent replied on shutting down the TV station which started the

violence

Where have you travelled lately ? Somalia , Uganda or Sudan ?

Which democratic governement sends armed soldier with live ammo against

civilians . They send police with tear gas , sound projector , water canon .

Takes a bit longer but usually no deads .

If the governement cant train properly his police in crowd control

they have no one to blame but themselves

But then you are right in one thing ,Abhisit governement dont answer to the people

he is illegitimate , so what for bother ...

Yes. They did all those things first. Then they were attacked with spears, chairs, bottles, firebombs, guns, and grenades. And they reacted.

The reds shot the army with live ammunition first ?

Your source please

What bomb , oh yes those grenade that explose here and there

without ever causing any injuries

[clinique]

....

He is being manipulated /controlled by the Military. The reason for 9 months is so themilitary re-shuffle can be completed under this government.

That is the whole point ,, this government is backed by the military elite, and does its bidding.. Thats why the red shirts want it out..

The Military reshuffle is only one of many reasons...

The MOST IMPORTANT being passing a Budget for the next year, so the government can continue to function, and the Farmers can get their Rice Subsidy.

CS

AND the Military can get their budget as well !!! that was my point....

Sure the farmers get theirrice subsidy, but do youknow howlong they have to wait to get it in their hand ????

Most of them MUST sell thier crop onthe black/grey market just to stay alive bcoz the government payment comes too late for them to be able to replant their next round,,

sure htere are other reasons but !!!it aint about the farmers..

[webfact]

Poll: 73% want third round of talks to end bloodshed

BANGKOK (TNA) -- 73 per cent of respondents in a public opinion poll want a third round of negotiations between the government and the anti-government Red Shirt protesters after Saturday’s clashes between combined security forces and the protesters in the Thai capital which have so far left 19 people dead and 825 wounded.

Noppadol Kannikar, director of Assumption University’s ABAC Poll, said the survey, conducted Saturday among 1,124 people in 17 provinces nationwide, including Bangkok, found that 72.8 per cent of respondents want a third round of talks between the government and protesters held in a bid to end the current political crisis in Thailand.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva held negotiations with key anti-government protesters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on March 28 and 29. The talks ended in failure as the UDD insisted that the prime minister must dissolve the House within 15 days while Mr Abhisit reasserted that he was willing to dissolve it within nine months and call for a general election.

Well over half of those polled, 57 per cent, said they felt depressed and miserable seeing the fierce clashes between the security forces and the protesters.

Dr Noppadol said the poll also found that 93.4 per cent of respondents wanted to see peace returned to the country followed by 84 per cent expressing that more social justice should be seen and 82.2 per cent wanted to have better livelihood for the people.

By early Sunday, the Erawan Medical Centre announced that 19 persons, including a Japanese TV cameraman for Reuters news agency, were killed in Saturday night’s bloody clashes while 825 people were wounded.

The 43-year-old Japanese TV cameraman was identified as Hiro Muramoto, who was shot in the chest while covering the fighting on Ratchadamnoen Avenue and died at a Bangkok municipality facility, the BMA General Hospital, according to the Reuters Bangkok bureau chief. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-04-11

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[changnaam]

Just watched the bbc report from last night and it is shocking to see the guy parading round with the AK47. People question why the army have to go in armed. I am sure there are more around with these kind of weapons and it seems they are not scared to use them.

If this trigger happy (probably untrained) shooter pulls the trigger how many more deaths will there be?

Very sad.

[Ulysses G.]

I've read ALL his posts, and I know what civil disobedience is, and is not. They goad them on till the only outcome a rational person could expect occurs and the "oh my, let's seek a peaceful solution". It all sounds disingenuous and self serving at this late hour. Where was the peace symbol last month or last week or even yesterday?

Apparently you have NOT read all my posts. I have said for months that I prefer the Abhisit government to stay in power, but I am also symphathetic to the red's plight. Blaming everything on one side is not going to help anything.

By the way, I posted this yesterday:

I'm not red, I'm white and - unlike some folks - I am not obsessed with ripping apart either side. I just want things to remain peaceful.

[anotherpeter]

Dude! CHILLAX!

Switch to decaff for the rest of the afternoon.

I am a tacit red supporter (That support is waning rapidly as the crazies get even crazier. My criticism of the government is not waning though).

No reasonable person, imo, can explain logic in it, other than the red leaders have well and truly lost their minds.

Now, it still takes 2 to tango.

The military/government response shall be important to watch.

AFAIK, Thaicom was heavily reinforced yesterday and the physical barriers should allow for non deadly defense on the station.

Will the troops keep it non-deadly?

Both the red leaders and the military, from last night's actions seem intent on turning it into a full on civil war.

If the red leaders have lost it, then the responsibility lies with the government to stop the fire from raging hotter and faster, and that does NOT mean escalate the violence!

MY. You're right. I need to get away from this for a bit.

Thaicom today will be a test of where things stand and what to expect in the coming days/weeks.

[moresomekl]

The solution as i said before was very simple . If you are the PM and yu can not negociate or stop a protest except by using live ammunition then you simply RESIGN . There is no shame in that at all . Abhisit is very very much disliked in the country side FYI , he is a golden boy with a pretty face acting as a lap dog to those who are responsible for the misery of the Isaan ppl (3000 baths per month , familly of 4 , try to live on that) and moreover he stole their vote . Had he resigned he would have triggered a political crisis followed by a move by the whole political class to form a governement of national unity and they stood a very good chance to have negociated with the reds . No need elections in 15 days for that .

It would be irresponsible to resign until the city has been cleared of violent protesters. After that he probably will. It may even be part of the negotiations. However, until the redshirts are willing to negotiate, and the result of that negotiation is the cessation of all demonstrations, the PM cannot step down.

It became somewhat violent when Abhisit tried to shut down the TV station

but no deads or serious injury which proves that police can prevail without

lethal force .

Sorry the PM should step down by now , he is responsible for the blood shed

[Tingnongnoi]

You havent replied on shutting down the TV station which started the

violence

Where have you travelled lately ? Somalia , Uganda or Sudan ?

Which democratic governement sends armed soldier with live ammo against

civilians . They send police with tear gas , sound projector , water canon .

Takes a bit longer but usually no deads .

If the governement cant train properly his police in crowd control

they have no one to blame but themselves

But then you are right in one thing ,Abhisit governement dont answer to the people

he is illegitimate , so what for bother ...

Yes. They did all those things first. Then they were attacked with spears, chairs, bottles, firebombs, guns, and grenades. And they reacted.

The reds shot the army with live ammunition first ?

Your source please

What bomb , oh yes those grenade that explose here and there

without ever causing any injuries

do you have a source yourself proving otherwise? Where you there?

[humfurry]

oop... that link didn't work.

Edited April 11, 2010 by humfurry

[chadintheusa]

If the reds get PTV back on the air imagine the kind of vile propaganda you will see. They will use it to incite a civil war. I doubt the police in Pathum Thani will hold them back.

[grandpops]

Watching news this morning it seemed the army managed to teargas itself again?

Sad thing for Abhisit is that he did appear to have the qualities to be PM. Just not at this stage.

Had he backed down and bowed out earlier, he would undoutedly have bounced back in later years and had a chance to legally occupy the office.

If the Army and Police injured 700 plus protesters and then had to give ground to them (which they did) there is much stronger support for the reds that reported in the Yellow media.

[clinique]

I've read ALL his posts, and I know what civil disobedience is, and is not. They goad them on till the only outcome a rational person could expect occurs and the "oh my, let's seek a peaceful solution". It all sounds disingenuous and self serving at this late hour. Where was the peace symbol last month or last week or even yesterday?

Apparently you have NOT read all my posts. I have said for months that I prefer the Abhisit government to stay in power, but I am also symphathetic to the red's plight. Blaming everything on one side is not going to help anything.

By the way, I posted this yesterday:

I'm not red, I'm white and - unlike some folks - I am not obsessed with ripping apart either side. I just want things to remain peaceful.

Well said U.G.

and seconded,,

[MellowYellow]

oop... that link didn't work.

ARRRGH!

GENERIC FLAME

GENERIC FLAME

GENERIC FLAME

I expected something funny!

[snorkelador]

It does not really matter which side (real red, fake red, soldier, third hand, fifth foot) fired the first lethal shot or threw the first grenade, bomb or LPG gas tank! The whole situation was setup in a way, that the shit would hit the fan any moment and blood would be shed. The red shirt leaders were at least fully aware and accepting the risk, actually judging from their statements, pushing for a scenario like that. The last bloodbath was disgusting, unethical and unfortunately for them almost useless. Now they are talking about making deaths on their side worthwhile. What else is there to say...

[noel2499rk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJt8K8Scalk...feature=channel

Red shirt international spokesman Sean Boonpracong being interviewd on al jazzera says soldiers being held hostage are really reds at heart.