Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[mrparanoid]

The blurry video of the 2 black shirts behind a tree firing an undetermined weapons. It's been posted.

As for the other weapons, yes, I have fired them and hitting a target at 100 meters is quote do-able with them. Most of the fighting and shootings occurred at fairly close range and many of the autopsied results reflect this.

While there are better weapons than an M-16 for sniping at greater distances, like your suggested 300 meters, they were not needed as the people being shot were not great distances away.

A good sniper, like I imagine the best sniper in Thailand Sae Daeng would have trained them to be, takes "noise and chaos" for granted when they are shooting. It bothers them not one iota.

What surprises me is that you can put sentences together.. All you do is come up with fantasy theories and provide no links, newspaper clippings or even a simple blog entry to back up any of your drivel. I'll leave you to yourself with a little quote from wikipedia. Time is wasted discussing actual facts with you.

M-16: Due to a narrow field of view and diffraction blurring, the aperture sight is not ideal for target acquisition, especially if the target is camouflaged or rapidly moving. Additionally, it is easy to misalign the front post against the rear aperture's center, as there is no mark that indicates the center of the rear aperture, and any alignment error between the front and rear sights repeats itself for every 1/2 meter the bullet travels. If M16 is misaligned by 1/10 inch (2.5 mm), it causes a target at 300 meters to be missed by 5 feet (1.52 meters)

You don't know what you're talking about. Over and out.

[imafaranggetmeoutofhere]

These are all the thai army weapons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Army

Austria Steyr AUG Assault rifle Used in small numbers. Mostly used by special forces.

Germany Heckler & Koch G36E/G36KE/MG36E Assault rifle Used by special forces.

Germany Heckler & Koch HK33 Assault rifle Secondary rifle. Used by Army Reserve Force Students.

Israel IMI Galil Assault rifle

Israel IMI Tavor TAR-21 Assault rifle Future main infantry rifle. 30,000 ordered. Delivery is ongoing.

Singapore SAR 21 Assault rifle Used by special forces.

Soviet Union AK-47 Assault rifle Used in small numbers mainly by the Thahan Phran, Mostly captured from the Communist Forces in Vietnam war and other from Laos and Cambodia.

United States M16A1/A2/A4 Assault rifle Main infantry rifle. Aging M16A1 will be replaced by IMI Tavor TAR-21 and M16A4.

United States M4A1 Carbine Assault rifle/Carbine Used by urban forces.

United States M733 Assault rifle/Carbine

United States M1 Garand Semi-automatic rifle Use by Thai Royal Guards and by Army Reserve Force Students as a training rifle.

United States M1 carbine Semi-automatic carbine Used by Army Reserve Force Students as a training rifle.

Switzerland SIG-Sauer SSG 3000 Sniper rifle Main bolt-action sniper rifle.

United States SR-25 Sniper rifle Main semi-automatic sniper rifle in the Royal Thai Army

United States 93 (ฺFN Browning M2HB) Heavy machine gun

Belgium, United States M249 Light machine gun

Belgium FN MINIMI Light machine gun

Germany Heckler & Koch HK13 Light machine gun

Israel IMI Negev Light machine gun 1,500 ordered. Delivery is ongoing.

Singapore Ultimax 100 Light machine gun

Belgium FN MAG-58 General purpose machine gun

Germany MG3 General purpose machine gun Used in V-150 APC.

United States M60 machine gun General purpose machine gun Main infantry general purpose machine gun.

Belgium FN P90 Submachine gun Used by special forces

Germany Heckler & Koch MP5 Submachine gun

Israel UZI Submachine gun

Italy Franchi SPAS-12 Shotgun

United States Remington 870 Shotgun

Austria Glock 17 Pistol

Austria Glock 23 Pistol

Austria Glock 19 Pistol Used by Royal Thai Navy

Czech Republic CZ-75D Compact Pistol

United States M1911 Pistol

United States Bushmaster M16A3, M4A2&3 Assault rifle Used by the Royal Thai Navy

Soviet Union RPG-2 Rocket-propelled grenade Used in small numbers mainly by the Thahan Phran, Mostly captured and stolen from the Communist Force in Vietnam war and other from Laos and Cambodia.

People's Republic of China Type 69 RPG Rocket-propelled grenade Used in small numbers mainly by the Thahan Phran, Mostly captured and stolen from the Communist Force from Laos and Cambodia.

United States M203 Grenade launcher Attach on AR-15 rifles.

United States M79 Grenade launcher

United States Mk 19 Automatic Grenade launcher

Sweden Carl Gustav Recoilless Rifle

United States M47 Dragon Anti-Tank Guided Missile

United States M72 LAW Light Anti-tank rocket

Russia 9K38 Igla MANPADS 36 order.

People's Republic of China HN-5 MANPADS

[tgw]

The weapon shown at the end of the France24 Video was a TAR-21.

Soviet Union AK-47 Assault rifle Used in small numbers mainly by the Thahan Phran, Mostly captured from the Communist Forces in Vietnam war and other from Laos and Cambodia.

=> now we can put the puzzle together.

The Taharn Phran, which Sae Daeng has used in the past for other operations, are the "third force" in the saturday clashes.

The Thahan Prahan have had a troubled history, with units often accused of atrocities, abuse of authority, and involvement in the drug trade. It has also been reported that these units included a large majority of local thugs who often made use of their status to continue to commit crimes against their fellow citizens.

see: http://www.search.com/reference/Thahan_Phran

Oh, and I must add that a fixed target of the size of a head can be hit quite easily from a distance of 300 meters by a trained soldier, without optics, especially if he is using his own weapon.

and it seems Sae Daeng's official post in the Royal Thai Army is "Aerobics Teacher":

Khattiya made news on October 18, 2008, by announcing "he would mobilise government supporters against any military attempt to seize political power." Khattiya "said members of the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) would use petrol bombs against tanks and military vehicles taking part in a coup attempt. [3]

Khattiya was reassigned as an aerobics teacher [4] by Gen. Anupong Paochinda, Thai Army commander. Khattiya responded by saying, "The army chief wants me to be a presenter leading aerobics dancers. I have prepared one dance. It's called the 'throwing-a-hand-grenade' dance."

On 14 January 2010, Army Commander Anupong Poachinda ordered a suspension of Khattiya Sawasdipol after an inquiry committee found that Khattiya has expressly paid loyalty to the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, a political pressure group supporting Thaksin Shinawatra, breaching official disciplines.[5] The following day, Anupong's office in the Royal Thai Army Headquarters was bombed by rockets launched by M79, left the office demolished but no person injured.[6]

It can be assumed that Sae Daeng has a deep hatred toward the current Army chief.

Edited April 13, 2010 by tgw

[imafaranggetmeoutofhere]

Govt faces difficult task locating killers bangkok post Published: 14/04/2010 at 12:00 AM

The government will find it difficult to go after the unidentified armed men it claims are working with the red shirts unless they can be lured out of hiding, a security source says.

Security authorities on Tuesday released this picture of a man they say is an outsider who shot soldiers on Saturday.

The source said the group whom Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has called ''terrorists'' would not be an easy target for security forces to arrest even under normal circumstances.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban on Tuesday said the assailants who killed and injured civilians and soldiers on Saturday night were linked to certain red shirt leaders.

A number of the suspects were still standing guard in front of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship's rally stages, Mr Suthep said.

The source said the shooters were unarmed during peaceful protests and many were disguised as ordinary protesters. They only came out to carry out their deadly tasks when there were clashes like that which took place on Saturday.

The government says it has been doing its best to differentiate between the red shirt demonstrators and what Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep have called ''terrorists'' at the rallies at Phan Fa Bridge and Ratchaprasong intersection out of concern for protesters' safety.

''Those people [behind the attacks] can do just about anything to achieve their goals, no matter how many people _ either red shirt demonstrators or soldiers and government officials _ die,'' said Mr Suthep, who supervises the Centre for Public Administration in Emergency Situations.

Alleged to be the man unmasked. Military authorities claim the man is a former ranger.

United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship leader Natthawut Saikua yesterday dismissed the government's claims that terrorists had shot and wounded soldiers and red shirt demonstrators on Saturday night.

He said many were killed by soldiers with a mission to put down the protests.

Mr Natthawut said Mr Abhisit should be removed from his position of prime minister so the truth could surface.

Twenty-one people died in the clashes on Saturday, four of them soldiers.

The government has decided to set up a committee to investigate the deaths. A special police investigation team under the Metropolitan Police Bureau has also been set up to track down the killers and is calling on members of the public to hand in still pictures or video clips from Saturday's clashes to the police.

The team includes investigators from all divisions of the MPB, city police chief Amnuay Nimmano said.

They will work in tandem with two other teams led by the Royal Thai Police and the Crime Suppression Division.

The UDD has vowed to continue its rallies until the prime minister dissolves the parliament.

The Election Commission's ruling to disband the Democrat Party was not a factor in suspending the demonstrations which began in mid-March, the UDD said yesterday.

The anti-government group plans to stage a rally today at the 11th Infantry Division to press the army to stop providing sanctuary for the prime minister.

The military compound in Bang Khen district houses the Centre for Public Administration in Emergency Situations and the temporary homes of the prime minister, the deputy premier and some cabinet members

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3604...ocating-killers

[imafaranggetmeoutofhere]

Their Majesties the King and Queen will graciously cover the medical bills for victims of Saturday's clash between troops and redshirted demonstrators.

By The Nation

Published on April 14, 2010

link http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...r-30127157.html

The Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary yesterday said hospitals and agencies had been notified about Their Majesties' concern and their intent to pay for treatments.

The royal help also includes subsidy for the funerals of those who died from the street battles.

Her Majesty and His Royal Highness Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn on Monday attended the funeral of Colonel Romklao Thuwatham, a members of staff with the Second Infantry Division, which took part in crowdcontrol operations on April 10. He was killed in a grenade attack aimed at the division command post near Sattriwitthaya School.

As of yesterday, 276 of the over 800 persons wounded in the unrest remained at 17 hospitals, with 17 of them in intensive care, the Bangkok Emergency Medical Service Centre reported.

The death toll remained at 21.

Phra Mongkut Hospital had the most patients, with 201.

Hospital spokesman Colonel Peerapol Pokpong said MajGeneral Walit Rojanapakdi, the division commander, was moved out of the ICU to a special ward for recovery from three fractures in his left leg made by a grenade fired from an M79 launcher.

Three other soldiers including LtColonel Kriengsak Nanthaphothidej, another unit commander with the Royal Guards, remained in intensive care for treatments for his brain injuries after a brain surgery, he added.

The two other soldiers are noncoms whose condition is causing concern, said the spokesman. One is not recovering well after brain surgery and the other underwent surgery to deal with chest injuries

Both unidentified soldiers remain in intensive care units.

Dr Pichaya Nakwatchara, director of Central Hospital, said the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary had told the hospital to seek reimbursement for treatment and funeral expenses directly from the Royal Household Bureau.

The hospital is deeply grateful for the King and Queen's benevolence, he said, adding that 13 clash victims were undergoing treatment there, with one still in the ICU.

The Human Security and Social Development Ministry urged those suffering from the Saturday violence to request financial aid at the centre for assistance to victims of unrest, located in the Community Welfare Protection Office at the Rajvithi Home for Girls.

The claimants should take along their ID card, household registration, medical certificate and a copy of a police report. More information is available by calling (02) 306 8657~8 or the 1300 hotline, or by logging on to twitter.com/prd_mso for.

Fugitive exprime minister Thaksin Shinawatra later yesterday offered to pay Bt100,000 to the families of each of the red shirts killed during the violent clashes.

He had earlier offered to pay Bt100,000 for each of red shirts killed in two separate road accidents during their trip from Bangkok back to their home provinces.

[Fishbucket]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

[yoshiwara]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

To summarise: 'Since the conjecture is unfavourable to the reds, I would like another one please.'

[gymboy33]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

To summarise: 'Since the conjecture is unfavourable to the reds, I would like another one please.'

to summarise yr poster boy has been tarnished with a dirty black brush

and he's desperately trying to scrape the dirt off him!!

[onthewire]

Let me give you guys something to think about..

I put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs.

On the left you have a 3 piece picture, where the text claims the "red shirt guards" caught an army sniper on the ledge above the red demonstraters where he had been hiding/shooting. Next you see him held hostage by the reds. On the 4 pictures to the right you see two red shirt guards carrying 2-3 army issue automatic rifles each... some without magazines and a gas mask. On the front of the shirt as I point out, he has a red shirt patch with the words "Down with the government/Dissolve the goverment" - and GUARD. On his shoulder, it looks like he has the Taharn Pran patch. (Wiki-Taharn Pran) The other, younger guy has GUARD written all over the back of his shirt. The Taharn Pran is a part of the Royal Thai Army by the way.

The part about the red shirt guards catching the sniper is bull, please stop putting propaganda up.

I want to know who really were the snipers. They might of been army but they were not part of that unit that were on the ground as everyone now knows the third hand was involved.

We also know that this rogue group shot both sides as one minute they were dancing to the armies music and next all hel_l breaks loose on both sides so someone else started it.

Shoot both sides and you can start a civil war if you look at history its has happened many times before.

Stop propaganda and seek the truth.

The question you must asked is who benefited from this?????

[TAWP]

Not easy lugging around a 30 pound weapon like this. And yes, it is probably military that would have access to a 50 Cal. Barret (Model 82A1). If you got hit by one of this babies, it would probably take your head off.

You've seen the grotesque video on youtube then?

Clearly not a hit from a Barret .50 cal. Anything else?

[TAWP]

I am sorry, but the rules of TVF do not allow me to name it, or post the link.

Incorrect, the rules states it about quotes and links about a very selected number of sources. You can name them and give us search-words or words from the headline so we can find it.

Now stop trying to hide behind imaginary rules and give us the 'sources'.

(I have asked for them to be sent in PM several times from you and another poster that repeatedly uses the same argument to hide their sources, but alas, nothing is ever sent...)

[mrparanoid]

Let me give you guys something to think about..

I put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs.

On the left you have a 3 piece picture, where the text claims the "red shirt guards" caught an army sniper on the ledge above the red demonstraters where he had been hiding/shooting. Next you see him held hostage by the reds. On the 4 pictures to the right you see two red shirt guards carrying 2-3 army issue automatic rifles each... some without magazines and a gas mask. On the front of the shirt as I point out, he has a red shirt patch with the words "Down with the government/Dissolve the goverment" - and GUARD. On his shoulder, it looks like he has the Taharn Pran patch. (Wiki-Taharn Pran) The other, younger guy has GUARD written all over the back of his shirt. The Taharn Pran is a part of the Royal Thai Army by the way.

The part about the red shirt guards catching the sniper is bull, please stop putting propaganda up.

I CLEARLY write "WHERE THE TEXT CLAIMS".. And that it is "put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs".

You obviously can't read Thai so you wouldn't know what the text on the pictures say, but at least I would assume you could comprehend basic English. I was obviously wrong.

And "stop putting propaganda up" you say? <deleted>, that's all you guys are doing. I am on neither side of this..

[TAWP]

{Wikipedia}

M-16: Due to a narrow field of view and diffraction blurring, the aperture sight is not ideal for target acquisition, especially if the target is camouflaged or rapidly moving. Additionally, it is easy to misalign the front post against the rear aperture's center, as there is no mark that indicates the center of the rear aperture, and any alignment error between the front and rear sights repeats itself for every 1/2 meter the bullet travels. If M16 is misaligned by 1/10 inch (2.5 mm), it causes a target at 300 meters to be missed by 5 feet (1.52 meters)

You don't know what you're talking about. Over and out.

Nice wiki-quote, needed as you have no experience with the rifle I presume.

Now tell me, who said the shooter was using the iron sights and not a scope on a quick-attachment mount?

[mrparanoid]

{Wikipedia}

M-16: Due to a narrow field of view and diffraction blurring, the aperture sight is not ideal for target acquisition, especially if the target is camouflaged or rapidly moving. Additionally, it is easy to misalign the front post against the rear aperture's center, as there is no mark that indicates the center of the rear aperture, and any alignment error between the front and rear sights repeats itself for every 1/2 meter the bullet travels. If M16 is misaligned by 1/10 inch (2.5 mm), it causes a target at 300 meters to be missed by 5 feet (1.52 meters)

You don't know what you're talking about. Over and out.

Nice wiki-quote, needed as you have no experience with the rifle I presume.

Now tell me, who said the shooter was using the iron sights and not a scope on a quick-attachment mount?

I only shot an M16 20-30 times so I am not really an expert no. But I regularly shoot AK-47s and I have been shooting since I was 12.. Mostly bolt-action rifles at 30-100 meters. And even if I am no expert, I don't personally think it's very likely the shooters could be that accurate in so many shots under the conditions with an assault rifle - depending on the range and scope possibly used.. And I didn't say the shooter was using the iron sights and that is my point exactly. I think the shooter/sniper was using a sniper rifle or at least some kind of scope. Like for example the scope on the SAR-21 army issue rifle that the red shirt guard is carrying in the picture above. The same scope you see on the SAR-21s all the Thai Army soldiers are carrying.

Was the whole point of your post to try to discredit mine? What a waste of time.

Edited April 14, 2010 by mrparanoid

[Ricardo]

Indeed the actual snipers have not been seen. The forum members think these clowns in black actually are the snipers. Sorry to burst their bubble, but those lads would not be in any uniform and would just simply blend into the crowd.

I admire your courage, calling these Red-Shirt-supporting people who are armed & clearly happy to use their weapons, "clowns in black".

[TAWP]

Was the whole point of your post to try to discredit mine? What a waste of time.

I am sure it is a waste of time to counter your posts as you might no actually properly read them. But your quote of iron sights is not the point, a professional will not misalign the front and read aperture and sice the weapon is tilted in the photo we cannot be sure that he at this time isn't wearing a claw mount etc with a scope or that he didn't at the time of the shooting.

Hence the iron sight wiki quote has no bearing on the events or the shooter in the photo.

[onthewire]

Let me give you guys something to think about..

I put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs.

On the left you have a 3 piece picture, where the text claims the "red shirt guards" caught an army sniper on the ledge above the red demonstraters where he had been hiding/shooting. Next you see him held hostage by the reds. On the 4 pictures to the right you see two red shirt guards carrying 2-3 army issue automatic rifles each... some without magazines and a gas mask. On the front of the shirt as I point out, he has a red shirt patch with the words "Down with the government/Dissolve the goverment" - and GUARD. On his shoulder, it looks like he has the Taharn Pran patch. (Wiki-Taharn Pran) The other, younger guy has GUARD written all over the back of his shirt. The Taharn Pran is a part of the Royal Thai Army by the way.

The part about the red shirt guards catching the sniper is bull, please stop putting propaganda up.

I CLEARLY write "WHERE THE TEXT CLAIMS".. And that it is "put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs".

You obviously can't read Thai so you wouldn't know what the text on the pictures say, but at least I would assume you could comprehend basic English. I was obviously wrong.

And "stop putting propaganda up" you say? <deleted>, that's all you guys are doing. I am on neither side of this..

No I can not read Thai maybe I got your point of view wrong, just thought you were being a bit one sided.

Just seeking the truth .

[mrparanoid]

Was the whole point of your post to try to discredit mine? What a waste of time.

I am sure it is a waste of time to counter your posts as you might no actually properly read them. But your quote of iron sights is not the point, a professional will not misalign the front and read aperture and sice the weapon is tilted in the photo we cannot be sure that he at this time isn't wearing a claw mount etc with a scope or that he didn't at the time of the shooting.

Hence the iron sight wiki quote has no bearing on the events or the shooter in the photo.

The quote had nothing to do with the shooter in the photo as he clearly is carrying an assault rifle with a scope. Maybe you aren't properly reading other peoples posts... It had to do with a comment from another poster where he said assult rifles could easily be used as sniper rifles and where he claimed it was no problem for him to hit a target from 100 meters so the "snipers" would have no problems whatsoever taking down people with pin-point headshots using an m16 or ak47 assault rifle.

Besides. There is no proof that the guy in the photo is the shooter..

Edited April 14, 2010 by mrparanoid

[TAWP]

Was the whole point of your post to try to discredit mine? What a waste of time.

I am sure it is a waste of time to counter your posts as you might no actually properly read them. But your quote of iron sights is not the point, a professional will not misalign the front and read aperture and sice the weapon is tilted in the photo we cannot be sure that he at this time isn't wearing a claw mount etc with a scope or that he didn't at the time of the shooting.

Hence the iron sight wiki quote has no bearing on the events or the shooter in the photo.

The quote had nothing to do with the shooter in the photo as he clearly is carrying an assault rifle with a scope. Maybe you aren't properly reading other peoples posts... It had to do with a comment from another poster where he said assult rifles could easily be used as sniper rifles and where he claimed it was no problem for him to hit a target from 100 meters so the "snipers" would have no problems whatsoever taking down people with pin-point headshots using an m16 or ak47 assault rifle.

Besides. There is no proof that the guy in the photo is the shooter..

You are all over the map.

If you do not contest that the M16 could be used as a sniper platform (I'm here using the news reels usage of the term, i.e. any hidden opponent that fire single or few shots at single targets, see: Sarajevo in the 90ies) or that the shooter in t he picture had a scope, what was the purpose of your post? But then you say that your quote is infact countering the fact that it can be used as a sniper platform in an urban scenario. Well, if that is your point, then you are wrong.

It is not hard to hit man-sized target at 100m with a scope for a proficient marksman.

[yoshiwara]

Let me give you guys something to think about..

I put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs.

On the left you have a 3 piece picture, where the text claims the "red shirt guards" caught an army sniper on the ledge above the red demonstraters where he had been hiding/shooting. Next you see him held hostage by the reds. On the 4 pictures to the right you see two red shirt guards carrying 2-3 army issue automatic rifles each... some without magazines and a gas mask. On the front of the shirt as I point out, he has a red shirt patch with the words "Down with the government/Dissolve the goverment" - and GUARD. On his shoulder, it looks like he has the Taharn Pran patch. (Wiki-Taharn Pran) The other, younger guy has GUARD written all over the back of his shirt. The Taharn Pran is a part of the Royal Thai Army by the way.

The part about the red shirt guards catching the sniper is bull, please stop putting propaganda up.

I CLEARLY write "WHERE THE TEXT CLAIMS".. And that it is "put together this picture from several different other pictures from both pro- and against- blogs".

You obviously can't read Thai so you wouldn't know what the text on the pictures say, but at least I would assume you could comprehend basic English. I was obviously wrong.

And "stop putting propaganda up" you say? <deleted>, that's all you guys are doing. I am on neither side of this..

No I can not read Thai maybe I got your point of view wrong, just thought you were being a bit one sided.

Just seeking the truth .

Translations:

'Just thought you were being a bit one-sided' = I don't like the truth if it is anti-red.

'Just seeking the truth' = only conclusions in favour of Mr Thaksin and the reds will be fully accepted.

[mrparanoid]

You are all over the map.

If you do not contest that the M16 could be used as a sniper platform (I'm here using the news reels usage of the term, i.e. any hidden opponent that fire single or few shots at single targets, see: Sarajevo in the 90ies) or that the shooter in t he picture had a scope, what was the purpose of your post? But then you say that your quote is infact countering the fact that it can be used as a sniper platform in an urban scenario. Well, if that is your point, then you are wrong.

It is not hard to hit man-sized target at 100m with a scope for a proficient marksman.

Let's make this simple. Here is what I think: I think it is unlikely that a normal soldier or civilian could use an AK47 or M16 without a scope at night in the midst of a chaotic demonstration with bombs and molotov cocktails going off and with shooting all around.. to hit up to 11 moving targets, all in the chest or head, be it from 300, 200, 100 or 50 meters. It is technically possible. But highly unlikely. I think it is possible and even believable that a trained soldier/sniper or trained civilian could use an M16 with a scope.. Say a thermal scope to do this. But I think there are many better options if you want to snipe someone other than to use an assault rifle. For all we know he could have had a modified M16 with a scope and a silencer.

Either way, the whole point of the wiki quote was to show it is not easy for someone not experienced with an assault rifle to hit a moving target at a distance with an M16 as he claimed. It had nothing to do with what happened in Bangkok or who did it and I don't understand quite why you are so desperate to connect the two things.

[EYETRONBKK]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

To summarise: 'Since the conjecture is unfavourable to the reds, I would like another one please.'

Well hard to find a conjecture favorable to the dems those days

[yoshiwara]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

To summarise: 'Since the conjecture is unfavourable to the reds, I would like another one please.'

Well hard to find a conjecture favorable to the dems those days

More a fact then a conjecture is the need to stop Thaksin getting his hands on the army reshuffle.

Which is the key point of the red assault.

Why don't you put a smiley on Thaksin's army reshuffle strategy.

So far, all forum Thaksin apologists have run a mile when this comes up.

And that will probably include you.

[bkkjames]

All this conjecture about rogues in the red shirts is more of abisits propoganda.

I would like for abisit or some gov person to tell about who put the rogue Rambo unit in the front line of the troops , nose to nose with the peacefull gatherings, with orders to shift them.

To summarise: 'Since the conjecture is unfavourable to the reds, I would like another one please.'

Well hard to find a conjecture favorable to the dems those days

I see in the daily live update section the govt saying they have identified the 'shooters'? And a another one that General P is planning a coup.

Just when we thought things we cooling down.

[tgw]

It is not hard to hit man-sized target at 100m with a scope for a proficient marksman.

The statement is simply ridiculous.

It is very easy for anybody to hit a man-sized target at 100 meters with any kind of assault rifle which has decent iron sights.

When I was at the Army (20 years ago), the standard training shooting distance was 200m, and we used the FAMAS with standard iron sights.

Our targets were not man sized, but triangle-shaped, approx. 30cm large.

Almost everybody in my group hit the targets.

Moving targets are of course something totally different.

Edited April 14, 2010 by tgw

[dino67]

If there's enough light for camera's to pick up shots there's enough light to use aperture sights.

Soldiers are trained to shoot under pressure and I imagine the guys in black as trained Militia/Mercenaries/Rangers (former or present) are better than average shots using their own weapons - not those for general issue, meaning they are proficient in their use and the weapon is correctly sighted in.

The M16 is a very accurate weapon when not fired in fully Automatic mode.

A friend of mine current Australian SAS has been involved in the past with training Thai soldiers and in particular Thai snipers, he reports that there are some decent shooters among the general rabble.

In my opinion most of the shots would have been at stationary or slowly moving targets, a head or chest is very easy for any trained marksman to hit - remember the guys who assassinated people were not being shot at most would have been shooting from a discreet strategic position.

I'd have no problem putting a hole through a playing card at 200m with a correctly sighted-in M16.

Edited April 14, 2010 by dino67

[jackspratt]

It is not hard to hit man-sized target at 100m with a scope for a proficient marksman.

The statement is simply ridiculous.

It is very easy for anybody to hit a man-sized target at 100 meters with any kind of assault rifle which has decent iron sights.

When I was at the Army (20 years ago), the standard training shooting distance was 200m, and we used the FAMAS with standard iron sights.

Our targets were not man sized, but triangle-shaped, approx. 30cm large.

Almost everybody in my group hit the targets.

Moving targets are of course something totally different.

Does "not hard" mean (approximately) the same thing as "very easy"?

[britmaveric]

^moving, heaps of distractions and low light. I think that makes things extremely more difficult. Not to mention prob over 200m.

[yoshiwara]

^moving, heaps of distractions and low light. I think that makes things extremely more difficult. Not to mention prob over 200m.

Appears to have run out of things able to say about the pictures in the thread above.

Give him time.

Obfuscation machine temporarily out of order.

[animatic]

It is very easy for anybody to hit a man-sized target at 100 meters with any kind of assault rifle which has decent iron sights.

When I was at the Army (20 years ago), the standard training shooting distance was 200m, and we used the FAMAS with standard iron sights.

Our targets were not man sized, but triangle-shaped, approx. 30cm large.

Almost everybody in my group hit the targets.

Last time I tried a Mini-M14 with a good scope and hot rounds,

I was hitting a 1/2 inch target at 400m consistently in light winds.

A good marksman and rifle set up properly can create total havoc

if used to create terror in a crowd scene like this. No problems.

Get two or three guys and a spotter; chaos seems easy enough to create and maintain.

And then add grenades... The riot squads didn't have a clue what they were walking into.