Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[tonywebster]

You must be living in a different country to me. On all accounts it was the Reds that attacked the Military. There would have been many more deaths if the military had not become involved. The Reds have been given so many warnings and also offered a compromise, but they ignored everything and refused in more peaceful talks. How you can defend people that parade dead bodies on stage to gain Kudos is beyond me. Maybe a little soul searching is in order.

I stress that when I mention the Reds I mean the leaders. The rest are paid mercenaries and know not what they are doing.

Rick

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

Yes but thats just some grubby little outfit not suited to reporting on issues. If you want the truth you should go to the Nation, ASTV and Thaksin Anguish Network.

Speaking of which, The Hi-So airheads on Thaksin Anguish Network were worrying about how they will look if the Reds take power and they have to wear 30 bath flower pattened shorts and 19 baht flip flops.

They will stiil be airheads.

Did the BBC report that the Reds have refused to negotiate that they have brought Bangkok to a stand still. That they being paid to oust the elected Government.

That they snatched dead bodies from the hospital to parade in stage. That they have taken soldiers hostage. That they threatened to derail the BTS trains. I thought not. Peaceful demonstration????

Cheers, Rick

I thought that negotiate meant that you could walk away without accepting, both parties failed to reach an agreement so did the gov also fail to negotiate?

the military fired the first shots. just accept that and move on, your hero abhisit ordered the murder of his fellow thais, live with it, you support a guy who can not control so resorts to murder.

[Meridian007]

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

[tonywebster]

Yellows did NOT get attacked by the military even though they TOOK OVER both government house and airports.

Yes they did.....the PPP fired on innocent civilians with explosive tear gas containers, arms and legs blown away. So quickly red apologists try to change history, and so predictable....

That was the police, not the military, and it was for storming parliament, not gh or swampy.

Seems like you are the one changing the history there, mellow yellow was factually correct.

[tonywebster]

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

so you believe them for things that you support but they suddenly become liars when they talk about something you don't support?

laughable

[rixalex]

The people you mention led the party with the most seats, that is why they formed coalitions to get a majority, twist this all you want, In would imagine if the reds had come to power this way you would agree with me. I will now support the reds after this action and hopefull they achieve their objective of a new election and remove these murdering charlatans that purport to be the current government, shame on them and all that support these murdering scumbags.

Shame on you Tony for continuing to post nonsense on a day like this.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Royal Thai Army

Role

The Royal Thai Armed Forces’ main role is the protection of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Thailand. The Armed Forces is also charged with the defence of the people and the Monarchy of Thailand against all threats both foreign and domestic.[6]

Apart from these roles,the Armed Forces also have responsibilities to ensure public order and participating in social development programs by aiding the civilian government. The Armed Forces is also charged with assisting victims of national disasters and drug control.

Those are the magic words.

Yes, but it should not be like that. Probably, some are opposed to the transfer to Police as they have easy justification for involvment in General Affairs. So it is a major Political issue...

[ovaltina]

Firstly, I offer my deepest consolations and sympathies to the grieving families of soldiers and rioters who have died. I hope that the wounded recover as speedily as possible.

I did watch Abhisit this morning offer condolences to the familes, then I watched a high-up Red shirt spokesman on BBc news , he pontificated for over 10 minutes but not once said "my sympathies are with the dead and injured" or any words of sympathy to their families. They are expendable footsoldiers to the Red Leaders. He just played the whole partisan propaganda BS nonstop.

Reporters and camera crew sent to armed riot zones know exactly the danger it entails. My sympathies are with his family too.

The whole ' who fired first', 'who told who to f_off', is a total absurdity and a nauseous game of low-wits. The fact is this : the people who died and were injured were 99.9% almost entirely Thais. Thai soldiers, from working-class poor backgrounds, just normal Thai lads just like the rioters.

Nobody wins in armed uprising. Innocents die. No progress is made. Progress is a slow process that takes years and decades and occurs by gradual social shifts in ideology, not by violent street rioting.

The only people who ever stand to benefit from this are the ones who are miles away from the fights : Thaksin on his holiday island and his leaders in their safe bunkers somewhere. Everyone else gains nothing and stands to lose so much.

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit is an elected MP, his party are not the elected government, they did not win enough seats to form a government and had to rely on being placed there after buying coalition partners, after the body set up by the army during the illegal military coup decided to disband the elected government for vote buying, while allowing the dems to continue despite also being found guilty of vote buying.

The fact is if the dems were wanted in power they would have been voted into power, they were not in the last 3 elections. In their desire to cling onto the power they know they will lose when it is democratically put to the people, they oversee the mass murder of people trying to return the country to a democratically elected government.

If you want to defend the current murdering non elected government then feel free, just don't expect me to join you.

No party was elected government. No party won enough seats to form a government. I don't know why the smaller parties started supporting the Democrats. I don't know why the smaller parties supported the PPP when they said during election campaigning that they wouldn't.

The government wasn't disbanded. A party was. The PTP (ex-PPP) was in still in government after the PPP was disbanded.

The Democrats were voted into power by a majority of MPs. The same way that Samak was elected PM. The same way that Somchai was elected PM.

If you want to support red leaders that vow to burn down Bangkok, or threaten to derail BTS trains, or threaten many other violent acts, then that is your choice. You know sure well I won't join you.

The people you mention led the party with the most seats, that is why they formed coalitions to get a majority, twist this all you want, In would imagine if the reds had come to power this way you would agree with me. I will now support the reds after this action and hopefull they achieve their objective of a new election and remove these murdering charlatans that purport to be the current government, shame on them and all that support these murdering scumbags.

The most seats does not give you authority to form government. A majority of seats does. It's that simple. No twisting required.

[thepodest]

If this had happened in the US with guns, grenades and gas cannisters for bombs being used against the US police, anyone like to place bets as to the response of the US police - SWAT and lots of guns with live ammunition being used.

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

I also see two dead/injured soldiers as well...

[rixalex]

I thought that negotiate meant that you could walk away without accepting, both parties failed to reach an agreement so did the gov also fail to negotiate?

The govt was open to continuing the negotiations. The govt had already compromised. The reds refused to continue the talks and were not open to compromise. They ended the negotiation.

[Meridian007]

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

so you believe them for things that you support but they suddenly become liars when they talk about something you don't support?

laughable

No, I just like to get my news from multiple sources, and then see what is most likely closest to the truth. The BBC has failed in this regard many times in issues that relate to Thaksin in Thailand. You can laugh all you like, but I prefer critical thought.

[tominbkk]

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

Jeez that guy is a real knob.....

[bangkokrick]

Tony Webber.

What an absolute BS reply. I am not Thai therefore I don't have any say in Thai matters and Abhisit is certainly not my hero. The man that is the murderer is no longer welcome in Thailand and for good reason. The Government offered further talks that were rejected by he who is not welcome. This is not about the democracy it is about the return of a dictator. By the way I don't have to move on or accept anything because I can leave Thailand when ever I want, unlike the majority of Thais that have to endure this anarchy.

have a happy day.

Rick

[anotherpeter]

I thought that negotiate meant that you could walk away without accepting, both parties failed to reach an agreement so did the gov also fail to negotiate?

the military fired the first shots. just accept that and move on, your hero abhisit ordered the murder of his fellow thais, live with it, you support a guy who can not control so resorts to murder.

The government offered further negotiation. The red leaders rejected it. The reds only wanted one thing, no compromise.

Did the military fire the first shots? All the video I have seen is VERY inconclusive.

Edited April 11, 2010 by anotherpeter

[animatic]

Yellows did NOT get attacked by the military even though they TOOK OVER both government house and airports.

Yes they did.....the PPP fired on innocent civilians with explosive tear gas containers, arms and legs blown away. So quickly red apologists try to change history, and so predictable....

And those grenades fired into the gov house compounded killed several.

Just because no one was caught doesn't mean it isn't OBVIOUS who was doing it...

A particular faction of renegade army boys... who's intentions were announced in advance no less.

[Sunderland]

The bbc reports are very clear in stating the trouble started AFTER the army fired tear gas.

The BBC has been biased about Thaksin-related issues for a long time, I trust them for a lot of other things, but not for anything relating to Thaksin.

You can see in this that during the heat of the battle there was tear gas, but it wasn't there at the start.

Jeez that guy is a real knob.....

whereas everyone loves you ...

[siampolee]

tonywebster.

As an aside I presume you are actually living in Thailand ?

I ask that because the comments you make seem very far removed from the reality of the situation here in Thailand now and indeed over the last twenty years that I have lived here.

If you are actually living in Thailand and according to you life is so dreadful under the draconian rule of P.M. Abisith why are you still here ?

Perchance you are in receipt of 1,000 baht a day to spread rumours and distort the truth ?

Edited April 11, 2010 by siampolee

[Meridian007]

Firstly, I offer my deepest consolations and sympathies to the grieving families of soldiers and rioters who have died. I hope that the wounded recover as speedily as possible.

I did watch Abhisit this morning offer condolences to the familes, then I watched a high-up Red shirt spokesman on BBc news , he pontificated for over 10 minutes but not once said "my sympathies are with the dead and injured" or any words of sympathy to their families. They are expendable footsoldiers to the Red Leaders. He just played the whole partisan propaganda BS nonstop.

Reporters and camera crew sent to armed riot zones know exactly the danger it entails. My sympathies are with his family too.

The whole ' who fired first', 'who told who to f_off', is a total absurdity and a nauseous game of low-wits. The fact is this : the people who died and were injured were 99.9% almost entirely Thais. Thai soldiers, from working-class poor backgrounds, just normal Thai lads just like the rioters.

Nobody wins in armed uprising. Innocents die. No progress is made. Progress is a slow process that takes years and decades and occurs by gradual social shifts in ideology, not by violent street rioting.

The only people who ever stand to benefit from this are the ones who are miles away from the fights : Thaksin on his holiday island and his leaders in their safe bunkers somewhere. Everyone else gains nothing and stands to lose so much.

I agree completely. This is why I've said from the start that the saddest part of this is that it is not about democracy, it is not about equality, and it is definitely not about peaceful protest.

The poor are desperate enough to be used as cannon fodder, and are thrown against conscripted men that come from the same region as them. Brother killing brother. As to the leaders, while both sides are culpable, I've only heard calls for violence from one side. Hopefully their thirst for blood has been sated and they will be willing to go home and pursue this in a more rational manner.

[longway]

Abhisit is an elected MP, his party are not the elected government, they did not win enough seats to form a government and had to rely on being placed there after buying coalition partners, after the body set up by the army during the illegal military coup decided to disband the elected government for vote buying, while allowing the dems to continue despite also being found guilty of vote buying.

The fact is if the dems were wanted in power they would have been voted into power, they were not in the last 3 elections. In their desire to cling onto the power they know they will lose when it is democratically put to the people, they oversee the mass murder of people trying to return the country to a democratically elected government.

If you want to defend the current murdering non elected government then feel free, just don't expect me to join you.

No party was elected government. No party won enough seats to form a government. I don't know why the smaller parties started supporting the Democrats. I don't know why the smaller parties supported the PPP when they said during election campaigning that they wouldn't.

The government wasn't disbanded. A party was. The PTP (ex-PPP) was in still in government after the PPP was disbanded.

The Democrats were voted into power by a majority of MPs. The same way that Samak was elected PM. The same way that Somchai was elected PM.

If you want to support red leaders that vow to burn down Bangkok, or threaten to derail BTS trains, or threaten many other violent acts, then that is your choice. You know sure well I won't join you.

The people you mention led the party with the most seats, that is why they formed coalitions to get a majority, twist this all you want, In would imagine if the reds had come to power this way you would agree with me. I will now support the reds after this action and hopefull they achieve their objective of a new election and remove these murdering charlatans that purport to be the current government, shame on them and all that support these murdering scumbags.

Their only objective to install a slightly different lot of murdering charlatans. Nothing worthwhile has been achieved here, the reds lost from the second they accepted thasin's money.

They want the same circus, but with different clowns. Mob rule is the objective of both sides.

Edited April 11, 2010 by longway

[scorecard]

Again surprise. Still no one wrote about how the government, army chief or police comander lie all the saturday to us... including to their fellow yellow supporters...

All the day they said that they use only teargas and plastic bullets.... And when all the world report the clash and many peoples died...so finally they say they use real bullet... and for don't lose their face...they say they shot in the sky or say it's the fault of the protesters...

Hide your face and quit this government of liers. Put them in jail with all the other leaders, different is demonstrators leaders didn't order to shot or use gun with bullets ...it's the personal choice of the peoples...other leaders just break the law (and some buildings).

The above post is clearly from a Thai person who believes the law / what is right and what is wrong should be whatever is good for them personally. Totally lacking in logic and in balanced morals and lacking in truth.

What the poster had deliberately ommitted is the scores of times the red shirt leaders have stirred up their naive followers with hatred and lies.

[Insight]

Reds at Thaicom now. No military around.

[scorecard]

Firstly, I offer my deepest consolations and sympathies to the grieving families of soldiers and rioters who have died. I hope that the wounded recover as speedily as possible.

I did watch Abhisit this morning offer condolences to the familes, then I watched a high-up Red shirt spokesman on BBc news , he pontificated for over 10 minutes but not once said "my sympathies are with the dead and injured" or any words of sympathy to their families. They are expendable footsoldiers to the Red Leaders. He just played the whole partisan propaganda BS nonstop.

Reporters and camera crew sent to armed riot zones know exactly the danger it entails. My sympathies are with his family too.

The whole ' who fired first', 'who told who to f_off', is a total absurdity and a nauseous game of low-wits. The fact is this : the people who died and were injured were 99.9% almost entirely Thais. Thai soldiers, from working-class poor backgrounds, just normal Thai lads just like the rioters.

Nobody wins in armed uprising. Innocents die. No progress is made. Progress is a slow process that takes years and decades and occurs by gradual social shifts in ideology, not by violent street rioting.

The only people who ever stand to benefit from this are the ones who are miles away from the fights : Thaksin on his holiday island and his leaders in their safe bunkers somewhere. Everyone else gains nothing and stands to lose so much.

I agree completely. This is why I've said from the start that the saddest part of this is that it is not about democracy, it is not about equality, and it is definitely not about peaceful protest.

The poor are desperate enough to be used as cannon fodder, and are thrown against conscripted men that come from the same region as them. Brother killing brother. As to the leaders, while both sides are culpable, I've only heard calls for violence from one side. Hopefully their thirst for blood has been sated and they will be willing to go home and pursue this in a more rational manner.

And thaksin had plenty of time, if he was genuine, to put policies and structure into place to ensure that all Thais, from very corner and background across all of Thailand, has better education and better oppotunity to gain a better quality fo life and for all Thais to share in the overall wealth of Thailand.

He had time, he had control, did he do any of the above? NO. ZERO!

He manipulated and used the poor for his own nasty ruthless greddy ends. And right now he is using the lives of the same people he manipulated.

No word from thaksin, he's too busy on a project in Saudi. The man is filth.

Edited April 11, 2010 by scorecard

[jonclark]

having seen the video posted above. Which is inconclusive as to who fired first. Maybe next time the army should be allowed to use sharpen bamboo sticks rather than batons, and grenades rather than shield and rubber bullets. If i had been a solider on the front lines their i would have been scared witless and battered the first thing that moved wearing red purely for self preservation, and i'm sure 90% of the posters on this forum would do the same thing if they were in the front line and not sat at home with a beer in an aircon room safe on a comfy armchair, being airchair warriors. My deep gratitude to the bravery and courage of the soliders and my condolences to all the families who will not longer have the chance to hold their loved ones again. The breaking of the red budha dies indeed seem ominous

[ozzieman05]

I think we can all agree it would not be below the Red Shirt mentality to spill some of its own blood to play the sympathy card. They killed their own people, shame on the reds!

and shame on the fake coalition government who use the word democrat just in the name of their politic part...

it's not the first time Thailand has clash in politics with demonstrators... but now they start to lose control on the deep south and in the big province of the north and north east...

next step is civil war if this government continous to ignore the other side... or outisde Bangkok i mean...

Where you in the front line when they stood up to the police

or at the rear shouting Go Red Go

Easy to talk when your in the safety of your home

[Miiyai46]

If the government did allow the protester to stay at Phan Fha,

why did they attack them there and not in Rachaprasong? It does

not make any sense, are the militars listening to Abhisit words?!?

[philw]

........Army should stay in its barracks because Army is a symbol of National Unity and should not be used against any fellow citizen- only reserved to external threats.........

....ARMY should have never been involved in this action.......

I will tell you this, boy. We were glad of the British army when the IRA death squads were roaming Belfast in the name of Soldiers of Freedom. Go back to your comfortable little village

and spout there.

There is little connection between

1) Thailand and N.Ireland

2) Respective Britsh and Thai armies.

3) N.Ireland in the 70's and Thailand 30 years later.

No connection at all.

Signed

just a boy.............................Who also thinks that the Royal Thai Army should take full responsibility for all the deaths.

They had many alternatives to live ammo.

pillock

[Tod Daniels]

Abhisit is an elected MP, his party are not the elected government, they did not win enough seats to form a government and had to rely on being placed there after buying coalition partners, after the body set up by the army during the illegal military coup decided to disband the elected government for vote buying, while allowing the dems to continue despite also being found guilty of vote buying.

The fact is if the dems were wanted in power they would have been voted into power, they were not in the last 3 elections. In their desire to cling onto the power they know they will lose when it is democratically put to the people, they oversee the mass murder of people trying to return the country to a democratically elected government.

If you want to defend the current murdering non elected government then feel free, just don't expect me to join you.

Sadly your argument about 'buying a coalition" to be in power works BOTH ways. Samak 'bought a coalition" to get a majority of house seats and so did Somchai. How convenient of you to forget those two FACTS. As far as the Dems being found guilty of vote buying. .. Did I miss that, or is a case pending, they are horses of a different color my thai political pundit friend.

News Flash; NO ONE was voted "into power" as NOT ONE political party who ran received enough votes to hold a majority on their own to form a government without soliciting other smaller parties to their side.

As far as Abhisit being elected by the people, well, that's not how elections work in thailand for Prime Minister. The people elect MP's who then vote in the people's best interest. Now IF in their infinite wisdom, those elected MP's change their affiliation and begin backing another party, an intelligent person might be lead to believe it’s for the betterment of the constituents who elected them in the first place.

Certainly you could do with a little more 'research time' and a little less 'jaw flapping' before you spout half truths or complete misrepresentations of how thai government actually works.

I for one certainly don't expect you to join in, just turn off the light when you leave thailand, if you even are here to begin with.

Any way you spin yesterday's events, it’s bad news for ALL THAIS.

My heartfelt condolences also go out to those who lost loved ones on both sides in yesterday’s events.

[saintofsilence]

If the Reds had not armed themselves with a M79 launcher , sharpened bamboo sticks , grenades , petrol bombs , other arms , or they didn't make threats to derail the BTS or take over government buildings there would have been no deaths.

The PM has been in a tough position he begged to the reds to keep talking but no they want blood . He has done a good job under the circumstances and I can feel his pain of seeing thai people killed and injured.

I hope he can get through this and continue to lead , for thailand to improve and catch up with other world countries they need a person like him.

Bring in the Red Leaders as soon as possible and catch that criminal paying the money too the reds and the situation will improve.

Edited April 11, 2010 by saintofsilence

[noel2499rk]

Nuttawut:

" M79's were fired at the soldiers, but not by us.

Bangkok police chief: Man in black fired grenade launcher and troops then fled scene."

[Sisaketmike]

Congratulations RED Leaders (I purposely do not want to know their names) You finallly got what you wanted...some of your own people dead to stir up your puppet followers. Meanwhile you stay far away protected. I pray there is a big rain storm to wash you pests away.

I’d like to know if the reds would still go on the streets under Chinese circumstances, where tanks are rolling over people’s heads….