These Bloody Clashes Must Cease Immediately: Thailand

[animatic]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

When a wild boar goes mad in a village, the village as a unit

tries to either drive it off or kill it, even if some get injured in the trying,

because to NOT deal with it, means it will tear the village apart.

[rodders2]

Sadly I have to believe the Reds were the spark to this incident with their 'Hitler' style rhetoric, but at the end of the day the Government, (which ever party they are) have the responsibility to maintain Law and Order, which they have now attempted to do. The Army should be ashamed of themselves for their initial cowardice, The Police also have not maintained Law and Order. Both organisations should be repremanded for their lack of responsibility. Now all that has been said, Let not the Thai people forget who has been behind all this - Thaksin.

[khunjamespittman]

Interesting how most people are behaving as if it's all over by now. The government has shown its mighty military power and defended democracy and the lesson should have been that the anarchists cannot get away with their crimes. As if it were as simple as that...

What happened is that the army tried to restore order. The result is that by now already 18 people are dead and more than 800 injured - the army retreated but the Reds Shirts are still occupying Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong - anything but order is restored. The only tangible result of that operation might be that now both parties agreed to talk again.

If the level of pressure and violence was not enough to restore order how many lives will be lost once the army increases pressure to finally clear Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong? Is that the only solution?

Give peace a chance again and let's hope that the talks will finally end in an acceptable compromise.

I agree. For weeks now radicals have been calling people they don't even know vile names. There has been talk about winners and losers. There have been no winners. Many families have lost loved ones and many others have been injured. I hardly call that winning.

Forgetting the disgrace of politicians and Generals using soldiers to fire at other Thais, It has to stop and negotiations must start.

Neither side can be stubborn. Both have to give. It is ridiculous to demand 9 months when the rest of the world knows it only take a couple months at the very extreme. The opposition knows also that the mechanics of holding a national election takes more that 15 days. Why don't persons of good will from the government and the opposition begin negotiations to define the framework for a dissolution and election determining exactly how much time is required for the mechanics of an election. Then go to their respective groups and convince them that's the best that both sides can achieve.

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together.

[MellowYellow]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

When a wild boar goes mad in a village, the village as a unit

tries to either drive it off or kill it, even if some get injured in the trying,

because to NOT deal with it, means it will tear the village apart.

Ahh, great. Back to dehumanizing the protesters to make it easier to justify violence against them.

[siampolee]

khunjamespittman

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together

.

Khunjamessptittman

Congratulations

Your rhetoric is changing, perhaps there may be some sanity, compassion and indeed common sense creeping into some minds at last.

Let's see if the message spreads to the top of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership thus stopping the needless loss of lives on all sides in the pursuit of one persons money and personal megalomania aims

Edited April 11, 2010 by siampolee

[khunjamespittman]

khunjamespittman

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together

.

Khunjamessptittman

Congratulations

Your rhetoric is changing, perhaps there may be some sanity, compassion and indeed common sense creeping into some minds at last.

Let's see if the message spreads to the top of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership thus stopping the needless loss of lives on all sides in the pursuit of one persons money and personal megalomania aims

Please refrain from distorting what I said. I have been consistent from the beginning and I see that you see insist on calling people names. Please stop.

From the beginning I have saidd that a 9 month timeframe until an election is ridiculous and the rationale given is plain crap. I have continuously said the correct timefame is in the range of 1 month. I have also said that 15 day is probably to short for the mechanics (organizing, ballot printing, distribution).

I have continuously said that both sides need to back off to a realistic timeframe and men of trust and good will should start to negotiate the scheduling. There is no possibility for a negotiation if people of good will don't look for common ground and not differences. The governments uses of soldiers was an national disgrace and I believe Abhisit use as has no value since he overode th Thaicom agreemane and orderes his Generals to order their soldiers to fire weapons at other Thai citizens.

If you want to spin then please spin someone else and please stop quoting me out of context.

Let me say again this is the exact position I have maintained from the beginning.

I hope that both the government and the opposition will find men of good will defuse this problem.

[djayz]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

This is not Abhisits' fault so why should he resign? As far as I can see, he is the only one (or at least one of the few people) who is still thinking clearly. No other government in the world would have tolerated protests for such a long period of time. I think he is doing a good job under the circumstances.

[jdinasia]

khunjamespittman

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together

.

Khunjamessptittman

Congratulations

Your rhetoric is changing, perhaps there may be some sanity, compassion and indeed common sense creeping into some minds at last.

Let's see if the message spreads to the top of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership thus stopping the needless loss of lives on all sides in the pursuit of one persons money and personal megalomania aims

Please refrain from distorting what I said. I have been consistent from the beginning and I see that you see insist on calling people names. Please stop.

From the beginning I have saidd that a 9 month timeframe until an election is ridiculous and the rationale given is plain crap. I have continuously said the correct timefame is in the range of 1 month. I have also said that 15 day is probably to short for the mechanics (organizing, ballot printing, distribution).

I have continuously said that both sides need to back off to a realistic timeframe and men of trust and good will should start to negotiate the scheduling. There is no possibility for a negotiation if people of good will don't look for common ground and not differences. The governments uses of soldiers was an national disgrace and I believe Abhisit use as has no value since he overode th Thaicom agreemane and orderes his Generals to order their soldiers to fire weapons at other Thai citizens.

If you want to spin then please spin someone else and please stop quoting me out of context.

Let me say again this is the exact position I have maintained from the beginning.

I hope that both the government and the opposition will find men of good will defuse this problem.

From your beginning you have accepted deaths at the hands of the government to maintain law and order. That only applied to the Somchai government and you have spoken vociferously against the current government maintaining law and order.

From the beginning I have abhorred deaths at the hands of the government but I do accept that when the reds attack that a response must happen even if it is only self-defense and not clearing the streets. I would rather see them clear the streets (using less than lethal force at all times that they are not under direct attack) and arrest the offendors.

[khunjamespittman]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

This is not Abhisits' fault so why should he resign? As far as I can see, he is the only one (or at least one of the few people) who is still thinking clearly. No other government in the world would have tolerated protests for such a long period of time. I think he is doing a good job under the circumstances.

How about I try to add a little context. The honorable US patroit General Honore told his soldiers who pointed their weapons toward other US citizens that they would be court martialed if they ever pointed their weapon at a US citizen again.

Abhisit to his Generals to fire at other Thais and the Generals told their soldiers to fire at other Thais.

That sounds like a whole lot of reason to me.

[neverdie]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Again, another poster that insist on spewing the same information onto Thai Visa, thread after thread, time after time.......give it a rest, please.

[jdinasia]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

This is not Abhisits' fault so why should he resign? As far as I can see, he is the only one (or at least one of the few people) who is still thinking clearly. No other government in the world would have tolerated protests for such a long period of time. I think he is doing a good job under the circumstances.

How about I try to add a little context. The honorable US patroit General Honore told his soldiers who pointed their weapons toward other US citizens that they would be court martialed if they ever pointed their weapon at a US citizen again.

Abhisit to his Generals to fire at other Thais and the Generals told their soldiers to fire at other Thais.

That sounds like a whole lot of reason to me.

Again --- you approved of the Somchai government killing Thais ... why is this one different?

[hammered]

It is time to find an agreement acceptable to all. The alternatives are more deaths, coup, waiting until someone wins and then having others from another side repeating this. Talking and compromising, which means not just repeating some party line, is needed more than ever.

[Jerrytheyoung]

the discussion on this forum is a demonstration that now, Abhisit is hated by a large part of the population, the percentage is not important. The main fact is that he cannot anymore be the instrument for reconciliation between parties.

The sake of Thailand is seriously endangered. Abhisit balance was not negative but maybe insufficient to defuse the situation until Thursday. The decisions taken from this date and the consequences are such that Abhisit should understand he is now an obstacle to immediate reconciliation and peace. He has to take a decision as a State man and gives up in order to avoid the worst.

He will come back on the front scene later on, after thorough thinkings of the events. He is not finished, he must take a break: he is no more the man of the situation.

[jdinasia]

It is time to find an agreement acceptable to all. The alternatives are more deaths, coup, waiting until someone wins and then having others from another side repeating this. Talking and compromising, which means not just repeating some party line, is needed more than ever.

I agree for the most part. The issue is how to proceed.

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets. THEN set up the constitution reform. THEN fall on his sword and resign and have someone else step up. Dissolve parliament in about 9 months and have elections at the end of the year.

[Jerrytheyoung]

It is time to find an agreement acceptable to all. The alternatives are more deaths, coup, waiting until someone wins and then having others from another side repeating this. Talking and compromising, which means not just repeating some party line, is needed more than ever.

I agree for the most part. The issue is how to proceed.

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets. THEN set up the constitution reform. THEN fall on his sword and resign and have someone else step up. Dissolve parliament in about 9 months and have elections at the end of the year.

What you propose is still the war.....Please, take some Altitude and come back with a peaceful solution

[animatic]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

When a wild boar goes mad in a village, the village as a unit

tries to either drive it off or kill it, even if some get injured in the trying,

because to NOT deal with it, means it will tear the village apart.

Ahh, great. Back to dehumanizing the protesters to make it easier to justify violence against them.

It's a metaphor,

but I guess that goes over your head. As does so much it seems.

The only one called a boar was Thaksin in the earlier post.

"Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... "

And I was referring to Thaksin's attack on the state.

Edited April 11, 2010 by animatic

[TallForeigner]

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets.

Get real, man! Come here and have a look at the situation on the streets right now. Your proposal would mean more deaths to hundreds of people and thousands more injured. Is this really what you want? Your proposal doesn't get any better after it is repeated on and on by so many simple minded TV members.

I'm happy that the overwhelming majority of Thai people takes a more level headed approach and requests an end to violence no matter from whom and wants to give peace talks and finding a compromise another chance.

[neverdie]

For those of you in Bangkok that might want to help:

THE NATION: Blood needed at King Mongkut Hospital - especially group O and B. Donation at Chalermprakiat Bldg.

[animatic]

the discussion on this forum is a demonstration that now, Abhisit is hated by a large part of the population, the percentage is not important. The main fact is that he cannot anymore be the instrument for reconciliation between parties.

The sake of Thailand is seriously endangered. Abhisit balance was not negative but maybe insufficient to defuse the situation until Thursday. The decisions taken from this date and the consequences are such that Abhisit should understand he is now an obstacle to immediate reconciliation and peace. He has to take a decision as a State man and gives up in order to avoid the worst.

He will come back on the front scene later on, after thorough thinkings of the events. He is not finished, he must take a break: he is no more the man of the situation.

I don't think the hatred for him has gone up appreciably.

The ones who hated him hared him before that and for sometime.

I am sure there are many who wish he had not been forced into making this decision.

Sarkozy sent in riot control forces and people died and were injured.

Yet no one expected him to just stand aside and walk away.

It was his job to make those tough decisions.

[grandpops]

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets.

Get real, man! Come here and have a look at the situation on the streets right now. Your proposal would mean more deaths to hundreds of people and thousands more injured. Is this really what you want? Your proposal doesn't get any better after it is repeated on and on by so many simple minded TV members.

I'm happy that the overwhelming majority of Thai people takes a more level headed approach and requests an end to violence no matter from whom and wants to give peace talks and finding a compromise another chance.

You have a good handle on this. Problem is that some intellectuals on here are worried that Thaksin is hiding under their beds!

I am not sure Thaksin could come back. I really don't think it likely that the current red leadership (who have manged this protest very cleverly) would or should give up the powers that they have won.

Maybe the way forward is elections and keep Thaksin out!!!! Am sure many on both sides of the divide could agree on this.

[sealy]

To those saying Abhisit must resign. Think about it for a moment. If he resigns, any group of thugs can make any government, elected or not, resign. If he resigns, Thailand is truly screwed.

thailand was already screwed long before.

the arrival of suchinda and thaksin and limtongkul , inter alia, are mere recent screwings revived.

abhisit seems the best hope now.

it's now or never to unscrew thailand's future.

[sealy]

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

When a wild boar goes mad in a village, the village as a unit

tries to either drive it off or kill it, even if some get injured in the trying,

because to NOT deal with it, means it will tear the village apart.

would you say the same thing if that wild boar is your family pet?

[sealy]

Sadly I have to believe the Reds were the spark to this incident with their 'Hitler' style rhetoric, but at the end of the day the Government, (which ever party they are) have the responsibility to maintain Law and Order, which they have now attempted to do. The Army should be ashamed of themselves for their initial cowardice, The Police also have not maintained Law and Order. Both organisations should be repremanded for their lack of responsibility. Now all that has been said, Let not the Thai people forget who has been behind all this - Thaksin.

.....again, you , like many others, are giving too much credit to thaksin.

many other people are involved, except that they have made known their vested interests just yet...

[Old Man River]

it's now or never to unscrew thailand's future.

And how will elections "unscrew" Thailand's future? There have been many elections. Do you think another election will make a difference?

[jcsmith]

Then the mob wins, and Thaksin wins through THEIR willingness to use violence.

All it takes here in the short term is to hold an election. And when the PAD loses (again) they will resort to the same tactics they did the last two times they lost. They will be doing essentially the same thing that the reds are doing now. Long term both sides need to compromise and work together. But I see very little willingness by either side to do that.

My guess is that Abhisit will eventually step down. The reds will eventually win the election. The yellows will be protesting shortly after and its back to square one. That doesn't mean that Abhisit should not resign though. This situation has spun out of control and the best way to diffuse it in the short term is for him to dissolve parliament as quickly as possible and hold new elections. People want to point to him compromise by asking for 9 months, but let's be honest. The people never put him into power in the first place. The fact that there still have not been elections, and that he is still asking for 9 more months in power as a "compromise" seems off to me. That's not a compromise. That's me stealing your car, and when you ask to have it back I tell you I need it to drive to work for a couple years. Would you be happy with that compromise?

I'm not a fan of Thaksin in the least bit. To be honest, I generally like Abhisit. But I don't like how he came into power. I don't like the fact that since the coup the yellows have forced out the elected officials in tactics very similar to the ones being used here, but that the military did not force the issue. And most of all I don't like the fact that a lot of posters here seem to have forgotten the previously stated facts.

[khunjamespittman]

I'm confused. Earlier I saw on TV news a report that the military said they were not shooting at other Thais. When confronted with TV footage showing weapons being fire parallel to the ground, they story changed. Then it was they only fired rubber bullets at Thais. They had real bullets were firing into the air. Now on the closed new forum I The Nation saying the government is saying that they will prove the government did not use live rounds.

It can't be all of that. They either did or did not use live rounds. If they shot rubber bullets at Thais and live round into the air then they used live rounds. Please pick one story and stay with it.

Otherwise you sound like Baghdad Bob.

Let's don't lose site of the fact the government and opposition need to negotiate to resolve this problem for the good of Thailand.

It's time for some trusted person from the government should figure out the real amount of time it takes to hold an election and then work with a trusted opposition negotiator get the process started. No more of the hardline 9 month timeframe. It should be somewhere around a month timeframe. Put these stubborn politicians ou to pasture.

[unclejunta]

I think everyone wants the violence to stop.

Unfortunately I'm not sure it will.

The wounds are pretty deep now.

We need someone respected by both sides that can step in and defuse the situation. Give both sides a "cool down" period.

Who can do that?

even if that that person can deduse the situation it is only temproary as there will still be no solution between the 2 sides. the country is divided.

[jdinasia]

It is time to find an agreement acceptable to all. The alternatives are more deaths, coup, waiting until someone wins and then having others from another side repeating this. Talking and compromising, which means not just repeating some party line, is needed more than ever.

I agree for the most part. The issue is how to proceed.

The only way forward for Democracy in Thailand seems to be for Abhisit to hang on to power and clear the reds from the streets. THEN set up the constitution reform. THEN fall on his sword and resign and have someone else step up. Dissolve parliament in about 9 months and have elections at the end of the year.

What you propose is still the war.....Please, take some Altitude and come back with a peaceful solution

What I propose is an answer that allows ANY future government to be able to rule.

[millwall_fan]

"I'm not asking you to take sides," Abhisit reportedly said, amid rumours of him falling out with military. "I'm just asking you to protect the legal power of the state."

If the military had 'protected the legal power of the state' last October, when the Samak government asked it to remove yellow shirt protestors from governement house and if they'd done so in December and removed the yellow shirts from the airport. Abhisit wouldn't be in power and there would have been none of this bloodshed.

[lannarebirth]

"I'm not asking you to take sides," Abhisit reportedly said, amid rumours of him falling out with military. "I'm just asking you to protect the legal power of the state."

If the military had 'protected the legal power of the state' last October, when the Samak government asked it to remove yellow shirt protestors from governement house and if they'd done so in December and removed the yellow shirts from the airport. Abhisit wouldn't be in power and there would have been none of this bloodshed.

And if the court hadn't taken license in the assets concealment case, Thaksin would have been gone years ago. and... and... and...