Should The Old Woman Be Prosecuted

[jayenram]

A Sad Story

A local 19 year old university female student (Thai) became involved with a boy (Thai) and it resulted in the girl becoming pregnant. She was afraid to tell her parents and when it became obvious that she was pregnant (5 months, I think), she ended up in an outlying village where a 60 year old woman "operated" on her to induce a miscarriage. The girl was later admitted to hospital and she is now in the ICU suffering from pneumonia and the doctors have concluded that should she live, they would then need to carry out a hystorectimy.

I am aware that the Thais consider it "tradition" for the old women of the village to act as local doctors but surely in such an extreme case as this, it must be stopped.

Do you think the old woman should be prosecuted?

[Boon Mee]

Do you think the old woman should be prosecuted?

Absolutely!

But the reality is she will, at most, pay a fine or do the equivalent of "Community Service".

That is a sad story...

[pnustedt]

Do you think the old woman should be prosecuted?

I don't know Thai law in this respect but I guess she must be in breach of several of them and yes, of course she should prosecuted if there is evidence that she has broken the law.

Maybe the girl and her family have also broken the law?

[jayenram]

Do you think the old woman should be prosecuted?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know Thai law in this respect but I guess she must be in breach of several of them and yes, of course she should prosecuted if there is evidence that she has broken the law.

Maybe the girl and her family have also broken the law?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't see how her family could have broken the law as they were only aware of the situation after the girl was admitted to hospital (or so I'm led to believe). As far as the girl's legal position, it is doubtful whether she will live to be accountable.

[Tarragona]

It's a shame that the girl waited so long. If she'd felt able to talk to someone earlier she could have been pointed to somewhere that would still have been illegal but more hygienic. Clinics performing these services can be found quite easily in big towns and at least do not want the inconvenience of their customers dying or suffering serious injury. In this case, the girl was left without even that option. The real tragedy is that she probably didn't know where to turn for advice from the beginning.

From what I've seen in my wife's Isan village I'd say the old wives tradition is pretty much dying out. Very few of the village elders are left from when we were married, male or female, and the next generation don't seem to filling the gap in many ways. In this case it sounds more like desperation than anything.

Sorry, I forgot to answer the question. If this is something the old woman is known for and does regularly she should be prosecuted. If, on the other hand, she was turned to as a last resort and was really trying to help based on her supposed knowledge, she should at least be warned that she will be watched closely in future. Depending on her financial status the girl's family may well take some form of compensation anyway.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Tarragona

[chownah]

I don't think 60 years old is old enough to refer to someone as 'the old woman'. At least people are aware that she is mature....unlike calling 30 year olds 'girls'.

But to get back on topic......I think she is guilty of medical malpractice....she attempted a procedure she was not competent to carry out...obviously.

[thymode91]

This very sad story i agree with "chownah" but we really don't know the Thai law. this practice should stop or else it will take more lives in danger.

[sriracha john]

It's against Thai law to practice medicine without a license, which is what the old woman did, as opposed to medical malpractice.

Performing a 2nd trimester abortion is EXTREMELY dangerous and especially at 5 months, a doctor would not have taken on the case. If she survives, she's very lucky.

Very sad, indeed.

Prosecute? Yes.

[jayenram]

I don't think 60 years old is old enough to refer to someone as 'the old woman'.  At least people are aware that she is mature....unlike calling 30 year olds 'girls'.

But to get back on topic......I think she is guilty of medical malpractice....she attempted a procedure she was not competent to carry out...obviously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not 60 years old. The woman is. Maybe I should have referred to her as just a "woman", if so I stand corrected. Maturity is generally considered as "knowledgeable" in most communities. However old she is (and the villagers consider her as "old and wise"), I don't think it changes the question, i.e. should she be prosecuted?

[Camelot]

So what happened to the boyfriend?

Is he accepting any responsibility at all?

[daleyboy]

I don't think 60 years old is old enough to refer to someone as 'the old woman'.  At least people are aware that she is mature....unlike calling 30 year olds 'girls'.

But to get back on topic......I think she is guilty of medical malpractice....she attempted a procedure she was not competent to carry out...obviously.

I'm not 60 years old. The woman is. Maybe I should have referred to her as just a "woman", if so I stand corrected. Maturity is generally considered as "knowledgeable" in most communities. However old she is (and the villagers consider her as "old and wise"), I don't think it changes the question, i.e. should she be prosecuted?

No doubt about it what she did was kill at least one life and by the sounds of it probably two. Obviously not murder but this should be considered manslaughter.

I feel sorry for the family and what they must be going through.

[jayenram]

So what happened to the boyfriend?

Is he accepting any responsibility at all?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What colour is the sky in your world?

[jayenram]

I received the good news last night that it is likely that the girl will survive.

[daleyboy]

I received the good news last night that it is likely that the girl will survive.

Well at least some good has come out of this sorry state of affairs

[sriracha john]

I received the good news last night that it is likely that the girl will survive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's terrific news. She's very fortunate, although it's likely she'll have life-long complications related to the old woman's treatment. Any news about possible prosecution? They really do need to stress this for all around to see, otherwise it will continue. Particularly with the govt. promoting it's 30 baht healthcare program, the need for these types is over. If she gone to a real doctor, she would have discovered that they wouldn't perform an abortion and for good reason. She would have been compelled to go ahead and have the child, which obviously isn't what she wanted to do, but at least she wouldn't have suffered the potentially life-threatening butchery and would at least have had the opportunity to have children later in life when she was prepared and wanted one. Now, that possibility is most likely gone forever.

[meadish_sweetball]

Sad story. Good to hear she is likely to survive anyway.

Slightly OFF TOPIC: I may be wrong here, but I have been led to believe abortion is actually illegal in Thailand...

Can anyone refute or confirm?

[Tarragona]

Sad story. Good to hear she is likely to survive anyway.

Slightly OFF TOPIC: I may be wrong here, but I have been led to believe abortion is actually illegal in Thailand...

Can anyone refute or confirm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is illegal.

[jayenram]

Any news about possible prosecution?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My information comes from a nurse (wife of a friend) in the ICU. It will be up to the hospital, I guess, to inform the police. Up to now, I don't believe that has been done. Unfortunately.

[camerata]

Slightly OFF TOPIC: I may be wrong here, but I have been led to believe abortion is actually illegal in Thailand...

Can anyone refute or confirm?

"In Thailand abortion is against the law except in cases of risk to a woman's health or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or other sexual crimes. A reform bill was passed in 1981 in the House of Representatives but defeated in the Senate, primarily due to the lobbying efforts of Chamlong Srimuang, the leader of a broad-based religious coalition, who has been central in the anti-reform movement since then."

[sriracha john]

Slightly OFF TOPIC: I may be wrong here, but I have been led to believe abortion is actually illegal in Thailand...

Can anyone refute or confirm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"In Thailand abortion is against the law except in cases of risk to a woman's health or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or other sexual crimes. A reform bill was passed in 1981 in the House of Representatives but defeated in the Senate, primarily due to the lobbying efforts of Chamlong Srimuang, the leader of a broad-based religious coalition, who has been central in the anti-reform movement since then."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disheartening to learn there are backward-thinking, ultra-conservative, morally-superior people in places of power the world over.

The death of every woman succumbing to a back-alley or moo-baan, as it were, abortion is on his shoulders. This butchery should have ended ages ago.

It's 2005....

c'mon Thailand.... join the modern world you so desperately want to be a part of.

It's not only about modern car plants on the Eastern Seaboard or

newly developed organic rice farming methods in Issan or

Bangkok Fashion Week....

joining the modern world involves much, much more than those things......

[jayenram]

I am very sad to report that I heard yesterday that the girl has died.

To my knowledge there has been no attempt to find and prosecute the "old woman". It is unlikely that any attempt will be made in the future thereby probably allowing this despicable butchery to continue.

[sriracha john]

Very sad, indeed...

Not entirely unexpected, however, as any late-term abortion has a very HIGH mortality rate, particularly when conducted by an untrained person in an unsuitable place outside of fully-equipped operating room.

It's a case of ignorance... Ignorance of birth-control by the young woman, ignorance of the dangers by her on a late-term abortion, even ignorance by the old woman, who most likely was thinking she was doing the best thing.

It's a shame that in 2005, there remains so much ignorance in the world.

The only way to end ignorance is education. Ignorance need not carry a death penalty.

Thank you, Jayenram, for the update and thank you for this thread. If it benefits or educates even one person, it's been entirely worthwhile.

My sincere condolences for all involved in this regrettable, yet preventable, situation.

[jayenram]

I am informed that the police have been informed and it is now in their hands. How far they take it I have no way of knowing and it would be unlikely that any information is related back to the hospital.