Thai Election Commission Calls For Dissolution Of Democrat Party

[way2muchcoffee]

One could add....."Interesting to see all those who applauded the dissolving of the PPP, insisting that it was fair and not politically motivated, are now bemoaning this as a travesty of justice. How weird."

It is much more interesting for those who were complaining about the party dissolution being unfair, who then lose that opinion entirely when the Democrats may also be dissolved.

Personally, I think that part of the Constitution needs to be amended. Initially I wasn't so sure. The reasons for including it were to provide harsh punishments for electoral fraud. The consequences are what we see today. So evidently it wasn't thought out, a bit of an experiment that has proven to be a large mistake.

I am curious though. Since all parties, except the Dems, wanted to amend this clause, what will happen in future? Will the PTP suddenly withdraw support for the amendment they have been so riled up about these last couple of years, thinking that they have the upper hand now? Will amendments go forth and therefore the Dems won't be dissolved? Would TRT come back?

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[jayboy]

The forum red apologists have been instructed that under no circumstances must they respond to this point.

Are you having a laugh ? The alternative is that you are not entirely sane.

[Supernova]

It's impossible to be a redshirt supporter without being a Thaksin supporter. The redshirts support Thaksin. There is no gray area here.

Here we go again

This is the biggest crock of sh!t I've read all day.

There are many Reds out there who don't support Thaksin, albeit in small numbers.

The Reds movement goes far beyond one man and his ill-gotten wealth.

GET OVER IT ALREADY.

[way2muchcoffee]

A very, very politically naive statement.

If you say so. But the redshirts are taking their orders from Thaksin. So how can you possibly divorce the movement from their practical and spiritual leader?

You can insult people and parse words all you like, but I really do not see a way to support them. They are a political movement, not a social movement. Their demands are only political.

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[catmac]

As for Abhsits smug defiance, even a pro-goverment newspaper, The Nation, referred to him in these terms.

Russell Hantz... now there's a smug man...

Dear, oh dear! You're starting to lose it now, rixalex. Just because your side has been exposed as being just as corrupt as the other, there's no excuse for descending to personal abuse.

[FreedomDude]

And no, I don't support Thaksin. He should take responsibility for any wrongdoing he has done, just like Abhisit and the hypocritical Democrats.

It's impossible to be a redshirt supporter without being a Thaksin supporter. The redshirts support Thaksin. There is no gray area here.

Absolute rubbish - it's far beyond Thaksin - I personally do not want him back (I know many do) but your comment really is not well thought out

Thaksin's money is the main force behind the red shirt movement as well as all of the Thaksin puppet parties. For a red to say they don't support Thaksin is the same as for a Nazi to say they don't like Hitler. If you believe in idealistic issues for reform in Thailand, (as I do) you really have to divorce yourself completely from the reds as they are eternally tainted with Thaksin, and with violent and terrorist tactics as well.

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

Edited April 13, 2010 by FreedomDude

[ChiangMaiFun]

And no, I don't support Thaksin. He should take responsibility for any wrongdoing he has done, just like Abhisit and the hypocritical Democrats.

It's impossible to be a redshirt supporter without being a Thaksin supporter. The redshirts support Thaksin. There is no gray area here.

Absolute rubbish - it's far beyond Thaksin - I personally do not want him back (I know many do) but your comment really is not well thought out

Thaksin's money is the main force behind the red shirt movement as well as all of the Thaksin puppet parties. For a red to say they don't support Thaksin is the same as for a Nazi to say they don't like Hitler. If you believe in idealistic issues for reform in Thailand, (as I do) you really have to divorce yourself completely from the reds as they are eternally tainted with Thaksin, and with violent and terrorist tactics as well.

see your HARRASSING me by calling me a red - never have been - I have repeatedly stated I am not a RED - apologise

when someone calls you YELLOW you scream and screech! I am sympathetic to the red cause - not A RED

[RussellHantz]

LOL

[way2muchcoffee]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

That may be true. But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

[Scout666]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

That may be true. But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

Well, that put that nicely in a nutshell.

[RussellHantz]

A very, very politically naive statement.

If you say so. But the redshirts are taking their orders from Thaksin. So how can you possibly divorce the movement from their practical and spiritual leader?

You can insult people and parse words all you like, but I really do not see a way to support them. They are a political movement, not a social movement. Their demands are only political.

It is my personal opinion that Thaksin is becoming more irrelevant to the red movement. The red movement are demanding fresh elections and an end to elite meddling in politics - which can have as much or as little to do with Thaksin as you want.

[FreedomDude]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

That may be true. But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

No, they're not. Here's the philosophical test: If Thaksin lost all his money and died today, would the red shirt leaders pack up, say awww shucks there'e no reason for us to do this anymore, and quietly head home? I think not.

[Scout666]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

That may be true. But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

No, they're not. Here's the philosophical test: If Thaksin lost all his money and died today, would the red shirt leaders pack up, say awww shucks there'e no reason for us to do this anymore, and quietly head home? I think not.

Uhm. Now there is food for thought. I wonder if (when) that imagined scenario will be put to the test.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

Good for you!!! good for your wife!!! and there are 100,000s more like your family - they try to tarnish all reds as:

• uneducated
  
• stupid
  
• paid to protest
  
• Thaksin lovers
  
• against Thailand
  

Its an outrageous slur and simply not true - I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

[way2muchcoffee]

I can guarantee you Thaksin's money has absolutely NOTHING to do with my family's support for the Reds. He could go lose all his money in Vegas and fall off the Hoover dam and we'd still support the Reds. And my wife has gone to the rallys decked out in red at Ratchaprasong for (((GASP!!!!!)))) no cash payment!!!

That may be true. But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

No, they're not. Here's the philosophical test: If Thaksin lost all his money and died today, would the red shirt leaders pack up, say awww shucks there'e no reason for us to do this anymore, and quietly head home? I think not.

No. The test is if or when the redshirt leaders or PTP come to power will they attempt to aid Thaksin in retrieving money that was confiscated or in any way try to whitewash his crimes.

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[MKAsok]

PAD rally to be held at Rangsit University on Sunday apparently. Info via Twitter.

[rixalex]

One could add....."Interesting to note all those who previously applauded the dissolving of the PPP, insisting that it was fair and not politically motivated, are now bemoaning this as a travesty of justice. How weird."

Who's bemoaning it? I think it's great that finally political parties are being held responsible for their actions and punished accordingly. And if it's a bit heavy-handed, tough i say - they've got away with doing as they please for far too long. 2007 constitution might not be perfect but at least it's delivering judgements unlike the 1997 version which was hopeless and which some would still like to go back to - i can't imagine why - oh yes i can - to avoid justice like this.

[lannarebirth]

Good for you!!! good for your wife!!! and there are 100,000s more like your family - they try to tarnish all reds as:

• uneducated
  
• stupid
  
• paid to protest
  
• Thaksin lovers
  
• against Thailand
  

Its an outrageous slur and simply not true - I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

So you're saying they want to overthrow the existing form of government and instead create a republic. That is what all Thaksins propaganda literature points to as well. I won't insult your intelligence, so I'll give you a minute to think about which institutions in Thailand would need to fall to bring about this end. After that, rethink whether or not an election, especially an expidited one, would achieve those ends.

[pedro01]

I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

And it seems they want it done in 15 days, are in favour of hate speeches, see no problem with violence threatened and then carried out, are OK with ruining peoples lives and holidays and want the dissolution on their timeframe regardless of what the rest of Thailand wants.

Pehaps threatening to derail trains is what University educated people do nowadays. School has changed since I was there.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Good for you!!! good for your wife!!! and there are 100,000s more like your family - they try to tarnish all reds as:

• uneducated
  
• stupid
  
• paid to protest
  
• Thaksin lovers
  
• against Thailand
  

Its an outrageous slur and simply not true - I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

So you're saying they want to overthrow the existing form of government and instead create a republic. That is what all Thaksins propaganda literature points to as well. I won't insult your intelligence, so I'll give you a minute to think about which institutions in Thailand would need to fall to bring about this end. After that, rethink whether or not an election, especially an expidited one, would achieve those ends.

don't twist - choose their MPs who choose the PM - it's going to happen - the election - get used to it. I am not, clearly, advocating a republic and don't even think about playing that game which is against the law

[chantorn]

PAD rally to be held at Rangsit University on Sunday apparently. Info via Twitter.

Why Rangsit University?

Because Chula University kicked them out?

[LevelHead]

A few days ago the Red were threatening to burn them (EC or CCC) down. I guess now they are praising them. A lot of things we see here would seem hypocritical in our own countries/cultures but not here in Thailand. Who knows, Abhisit may end up being the next Red leader and Jakraporn may end up on the Board of Bangkok Bank and Sae Daeng enters the monkhood ..

You guys making personal attacks against each other over this situation just look foolish.

I know you're being facetious, but truly that would be a good outcome. He has been their only champion in all this.

Yes I started the post with a facetious frame of mind but as I wrote it I realized that something like this really wouldn't surprise me ... well yes I think Khun A becoming the red leader would be a stretch even for Thailand. But when elections roll around, all these politicians and "leaders" will as usual become chameleons and not only in regard to the color of their shirts. Everyone wants to be on the winning side. But they can't ALL be. So the losers will probably come up with a new color .... hmmm what color is left? ha ha sorry I slip back into my facetiousness ; )

You make an amusing point particularly re the red about-turn on the EC.

There is, however, an iron point which to date is not flexible on either side.

It is the date of the elections.

Not because of 'face'.

But because the issue is about the army reshuffle which takes place in the latter half of the year.

The forum red apologists have been instructed that under no circumstances must they respond to this point.

It is however, the fundamental point which has guided Thaksin and his red leaders in the current campaign.

It is the reason for the no-compromise.

And it is the reason for the red escalation of violence.

But they must keep quiet that all those deaths are in the line of duty for Thaksin to get his family/cronies into the army.

And capture the state.

Individuals may mess around positioning themselves, but when the fog clears, Thaksin's objectives are clear.

Steady on there. Reds have not fallen in love with the EC.

The reds have some demands, they are House Dissolution, New Elections asap (and now Abhisit to flee the country due to blood on his hands).

The Yellows have said "this new election is everything to do with the military reshuffle and the budget". Those events happen every year. Nothing special this year.

Whilst the reds have "cheered" the EC finally making a ruling over Democrat issues of 2005 (yes, 5 years on now from that alleged abuse), its nothing really.

Everyone knows that the "THREAT" (and its only a threat) of dissolution against the Democrats would take many months to happen even if it does go ahead. No, the Reds see this as simply the Elite putting a gun to the Democrats heads to force them to accept "New Politics".

If the top Democrats go with the plan for a Yellow coup and then forced "New Politics" with no elected majority, the reds believe the top democrats will not be banned for 5 years, but will part of the appointed and anointed New Politics government where the majority are hand picked and not elected.

Therefore the threat of dissolution is simply a gun to the head of the Democrat top bosses.

Accept the coming coup and join us....... or you will get the same treatment as TRT/PPP and Thaksin got.

It is therefore a common Red thought, I am told, that they must get new elections before this Yellow Coup happens.

If you note the last coup in Sept 2006 occurred weeks before the planned elections in Oct 2006.

The next coup is being planned before the next elections can take place. The Elite do not want democracy and they do not want to be slapped in the face and lose elections again, so better to not have elections.

This is why, I am told, the Reds are pushing for elections asap, they want to get them done and dusted before the Yellow side can plan and pull off another coup.

The media will be used as a propaganda tool to say "politics cannot work in Thailand" and therefore "New Politics" of unelected government is the way to go. Academics and Elite hand picking government majority.

Democracy was working, it has been smashed by a coup in 2006. Another coup is being planned so the reds think, one that will take away all Democracy and attempt to usher in "New Politics".

Thats why the Reds say they want urgent elections, to stop the plans from being finalized for the coup and move to New Politics.

Look at Kasit's recent speech - is he opening the door to "New Politics" and it seems a non-elected government ?

Thats what some reds have told me, thats their opinions. This is nothing to do with Thaksin, he is just one part of the red movement against the oppression by the Yellows. Yellow are making more and more enemies everyday and its why they feel weak and do not want elections to happen, which is why Abhisit is being told he must not waiver and why the "threat of dissolution" gun is at the heads of the Democrats - to keep them in line.

The "threat of dissolution" is just part the game - nothing more. It means nothing to the Reds and their demands remain, House Dissolution asap and elections now - before a coup can stop them happening.

[lannarebirth]

Good for you!!! good for your wife!!! and there are 100,000s more like your family - they try to tarnish all reds as:

• uneducated
  
• stupid
  
• paid to protest
  
• Thaksin lovers
  
• against Thailand
  

Its an outrageous slur and simply not true - I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

So you're saying they want to overthrow the existing form of government and instead create a republic. That is what all Thaksins propaganda literature points to as well. I won't insult your intelligence, so I'll give you a minute to think about which institutions in Thailand would need to fall to bring about this end. After that, rethink whether or not an election, especially an expidited one, would achieve those ends.

don't twist - choose their MPs who choose the PM - it's going to happen - the election - get used to it. I am not, clearly, advocating a republic and don't even think about playing that game which is against the law

OK, thanks for clarifying the point. As you know the MP's were elected by the people and they then chose the PM Abhisit. Thaksin is advocating a republic. That's what this fight is about, didn't you know?

Edited April 13, 2010 by lannarebirth

[MKAsok]

PAD rally to be held at Rangsit University on Sunday apparently. Info via Twitter.

Why Rangsit University?

Because Chula University kicked them out?

Source was Suriyasai on ASTV apparently. No more info at the moment.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Good for you!!! good for your wife!!! and there are 100,000s more like your family - they try to tarnish all reds as:

• uneducated
  
• stupid
  
• paid to protest
  
• Thaksin lovers
  
• against Thailand
  

Its an outrageous slur and simply not true - I know many reds (I'm not one but sympathetic) and they are decent, largely University educated, and not dumb at all - they just want a better Thailand and want to CHOOSE their Prime Minister.

So you're saying they want to overthrow the existing form of government and instead create a republic. That is what all Thaksins propaganda literature points to as well. I won't insult your intelligence, so I'll give you a minute to think about which institutions in Thailand would need to fall to bring about this end. After that, rethink whether or not an election, especially an expidited one, would achieve those ends.

don't twist - choose their MPs who choose the PM - it's going to happen - the election - get used to it. I am not, clearly, advocating a republic and don't even think about playing that game which is against the law

OK, thanks for clarifying the point. As you know the MP's were elected by the people and they then chose the PM Abhisit. Thaksin is advocating a republic. That's what this fight is about, didn't you know?

Please supply EVIDENCE - I have never, ever seen any speech - or document from the reds or Thaskin - honestly - if you provide one I and everyone would be very interested to read it

[lannarebirth]

So you're saying they want to overthrow the existing form of government and instead create a republic. That is what all Thaksins propaganda literature points to as well. I won't insult your intelligence, so I'll give you a minute to think about which institutions in Thailand would need to fall to bring about this end. After that, rethink whether or not an election, especially an expidited one, would achieve those ends.

don't twist - choose their MPs who choose the PM - it's going to happen - the election - get used to it. I am not, clearly, advocating a republic and don't even think about playing that game which is against the law

OK, thanks for clarifying the point. As you know the MP's were elected by the people and they then chose the PM Abhisit. Thaksin is advocating a republic. That's what this fight is about, didn't you know?

Please supply EVIDENCE - I have never, ever seen any speech - or document from the reds or Thaskin - honestly - if you provide one I and everyone would be very interested to read it

It's not evidence that can be supplied in this forum or even in Thailand, but if you do some Googling you'll come up with it. Start with what Giles Ungphakorn (a red shirt) has to say with the transformataion within the Red movement. Then there's "Voice of Taksin" and similar Thaksin propaganda pubs.

Edited April 13, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Jerrytheyoung]

PAD rally to be held at Rangsit University on Sunday apparently. Info via Twitter.

Why Rangsit University?

Because Chula University kicked them out?

Source was Suriyasai on ASTV apparently. No more info at the moment.

Because Rangsit is very North already for the PAD... After they need a special visa.

[way2muchcoffee]

PAD rally to be held at Rangsit University on Sunday apparently. Info via Twitter.

Why Rangsit University?

Because Chula University kicked them out?

Source was Suriyasai on ASTV apparently. No more info at the moment.

Because Rangsit is very North already for the PAD... After they need a special visa.

Yes. You are right. Heading up north for a rally might find them hacked up with machetes by the peaceful Udon redshirts as happened previously. They should also avoid Chiang Mai as the peaceful CM redshirts have been know to murder people of the yellow persuasion.

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Neurath]

Interesting to note all those who previously expressed extreme skepticism at the dissolving of the PPP, insisting that it was unfair and politically motivated, are now celebrating this as a victory for justice. How weird.

Hardly a "victory for justice" for it to have taken so long to be decided. I see it more as a comedy of errors. The 2007 constitution was nothing but a total disaster for Thai political life, the blunt instrument of disbandment for political parties has been used to emasculate the opposition time after time, I find it nothing short of hilarious that it is now going to chop Abhisit's knackers off! What is even more amusing is that the Dems were so in favor of those provisions of the 2007 constitution, even though they must have known that it could rebound on them for what they did in 2005! Typical of their smug arrogance that they never thought anyone would dare to investigate their brand of corruption.

One could add....."Interesting to note all those who previously applauded the dissolving of the PPP, insisting that it was fair and not politically motivated, are now bemoaning this as a travesty of justice. How weird."

The dissolution of political parties and the 5 year ban for party executives should any of said executives be found guilty of electoral fraud (note, not any fraud, but electoral fraud) is, I believe, a very good idea in this country. I hope the election commission and the constitutional court keep knocking parties down along with their executives should they be found guilty of such offenses. Certainly one of great difficulties of prosecuting bureaucratic and political party wrongdoing in Thailand is that seldom can any individual be found 'responsible'. Usually, 'no-one' is responsible ("mechanism of perpetual guiltlessness") or, at best, attributions/accusations of responsibility go round and round until public interest is lost or a cynical weariness sets in. The executives of political parties know who they're in bed with and what color the sheets are, and for any of them to throw hands in the air and say 'not me, wasn't me!' is, speaking mildly, disingenuous and a major part of the elision of individual and group responsibility that hobbles the Thai state in every respect and aspect.

This applies to TRT, PPP, CT et. al. and certainly the Dems also.

[shrekroma]

But in the end the redshirt movement only stands for what their leaders stand for. The redshirt leaders are there at the behest of Thaksin.

Thaksin is the greatest weapon against the aristrocracy.

Reds are happy if he is safe. Living exile doesnt seem selfish but strategic location seen by Reds.

Even better if he's getting $$$ back. So he can beef up his power.

Thaksin benefits lie with democracy world. More or less. The elites are not, sorry.

Reds dont see Thakin as a threat as much they see the old traditional privy members who appear to be able to control court, military etc.

Reds began from Thaksin, true. But Thaksin $$$ is no longer the main issue those Reds are fighting.

And if anyone trying to bring down the democracy just to destroy Thaksin, it'll backfire - much like this gov is suffering now.