Bangkok: Eleven Died From Gunshot Wounds

[phupaman]

Blackman .

I read what you say ,, Sae Daeng ,, already has a warrant out for him.

So do all the red shirt leaders,But with the police commander's and the army Commander's.Grossly Inactive It looks like MrT has already settled that account.

phupaman

[CPH]

Bullets fired over the heads of people will come down again somewhere. Maybe in the head of someone 500 meter down the road.

[otherstuff1957]

I can't remember who said this: "The first casualty of war is the truth". I suspect that Sae dang and is boys in black probably did start the killing, for just the reasons mentioned above. However, the majority of the Reds will believe it was the soldiers doing all the shooting, while the anti-Reds will believe that all of the killing was done by the soldiers.

Personally, I don't know who did the killing, after all, I wasn't there to see it. But I do know who would benefit most from bloodshed (Thaksin ) and who would benefit the least (the Government).

[mythBuster]

High velocity weapons to be precise, army weapons. If you need to see prove just have a look at:

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

you see that Abhisit is lying about soldiers NOT firing in the crowd.

[mythBuster]

NO the video shows multiple soldiers firing constantly in the crowd. Also the slain cameraman reported that live ammunition was used. (The BBC quoted Reuters already at 17.00 hr) Problem is that nobody obtained the footage except France24.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

[Explorer]

Here's my take. (from an amateur point of view)

In the video there were a total of 9 shots could be heard, the 3rd shot heard was the one that killed the red shirt flag man.

After viewing the video, it seems the shot that hit the guy came from the front at close range. I would believe the blackman that just came out (that all were talking about) missed fired his shot and got the guy instead and fired 2 more shots after that. The guy's fall is similar to when you see videos of suicides by guns to the mouth (bullet exit the back of the skull).

In my view, the bullet hit the guy's right cheek and exit the back of the skull where small part of his skull was taken out during the exit and that made the brains exit easily as when his head hit the road. This actually reminds me of a famous theory of an assassination in Dallas.

PEACE TO ALL!

[offissa]

Here's my take. (from an amateur point of view)

In the video there were a total of 9 shots could be heard, the 3rd shot heard was the one that killed the red shirt flag man.

After viewing the video, it seems the shot that hit the guy came from the front at close range. I would believe the blackman that just came out (that all were talking about) missed fired his shot and got the guy instead and fired 2 more shots after that. The guy's fall is similar to when you see videos of suicides by guns to the mouth (bullet exit the back of the skull).

In my view, the bullet hit the guy's right cheek and exit the back of the skull where small part of his skull was taken out during the exit and that made the brains exit easily as when his head hit the road. This actually reminds me of a famous theory of an assassination in Dallas.

PEACE TO ALL!

That's an amazingly detailed and specific analysis on the information available from the video. Almost as if you were there yourself to have seen all that.

Did you shoot him?

[Moonrakers]

NO the video shows multiple soldiers firing constantly in the crowd. Also the slain cameraman reported that live ammunition was used. (The BBC quoted Reuters already at 17.00 hr) Problem is that nobody obtained the footage except France24.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

He we are again going around in circles. What evidence is there that those rounds being fired were live rounds?

[CPH]

Why take aim and wait for the correct moment to pull the trigger if it was not live ammunition.

[neverdie]

Why take aim and wait for the correct moment to pull the trigger if it was not live ammunition.

Rubber bullet.

[kissdani]

NO the video shows multiple soldiers firing constantly in the crowd. Also the slain cameraman reported that live ammunition was used. (The BBC quoted Reuters already at 17.00 hr) Problem is that nobody obtained the footage except France24.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

He we are again going around in circles. What evidence is there that those rounds being fired were live rounds?

dead and wounded people?

[not5150]

He we are again going around in circles. What evidence is there that those rounds being fired were live rounds?

Don't suppose you've seen the YouTube videos by thaifaq? That should answer your questions about live rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thaifaq

[Moonrakers]

NO the video shows multiple soldiers firing constantly in the crowd. Also the slain cameraman reported that live ammunition was used. (The BBC quoted Reuters already at 17.00 hr) Problem is that nobody obtained the footage except France24.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

He we are again going around in circles. What evidence is there that those rounds being fired were live rounds?

dead and wounded people?

There is no debate to be had on whether or not live rounds were used as it is undeniable that there was. My question however was: what evidence is there that the ammunition being used in the clip contained in the quotes above was live ammunition?

[golferchin76]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

that footage was grotesque to watch! But I watched many times because I wanted to know <deleted> happened. Initially I heard two loud bangs, probably from semi auto firearm, close to the camera because it was loud (suggesting it was from red crowd). Few seconds later I heard automatics, twice from "distance". One time before the flag man got hit, one time right at the time he fell. I am suggesting those automatics hit him, he fell when the second stream of automatics started came on.

Now, I suspect that red shirt guy go hit from his left side, when his back was against the camera and he was facing the building. It was a head shot which broke his skull, he was dead instantaneously and he fell down front-leftward (sort of like as a man sits down), his chest then bumped his knees then his butt hit the ground and his upper body naturally fell backward.

It was at this moment his brain/blood fell out (should I say flew out) from his broken skull, as his back swing back and slammed the floor. Then the blood keep gashing out from the head, from a small initial splash to a small river. If you keep looping the footage where he fell to the ground you can see the brain flew out backward as his back fell half way to the ground.

And I hate to look at his face but the exit wound looked like was his top/right side of the head. His face was intact, and part of the top-left of his head was intact while the top and right of his skull was simply blown out.

He was hit by a bullet from left, and certainly a 5.56mm or 7.62mm NATO round. Definitely not round nosed hand gun rounds. Hand gun rounds can be powerful enough only at point blank range. .375, .44 There's no way a killer will get away murdering this guy at point blank range and not get caught by the crowd, or camera. Especially we should hear a fuc_king loud bang from those high power hand guns right before he fell. But we didn't, we hear pla-pla-pla-pla from distance and he fell.

[lannarebirth]

Why take aim and wait for the correct moment to pull the trigger if it was not live ammunition.

Rubber bullet.

Seems like eveyone on this forum is an ammunition and ballistics expert except me. That said, if someone had an automatic weapon firing live rounds, I would think aiming would be a hel_l of a lot less important in inflicting damage than someone that had to create a desired outcome with a rubber bullet.

Edited April 13, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Moonrakers]

Why take aim and wait for the correct moment to pull the trigger if it was not live ammunition.

Rubber bullet.

Seems like eveyone on this forum is an ammunition and ballistics expert except me.

Ex-SAS/Navy Seals, of course.

[TheOldWolf]

The "terrorists" the prime minister said instigated the bloodshed on Saturday night are malcontent soldiers intent on bringing down the government, UDD leader Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday.

He said the government should find and arrest them.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday the government had evidence that "armed terrorists" aiming to bring down his government were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday.

He said they instigated the bloodshed that resulted in 21 deaths and more than 800 people injured.

Deputy Prime MInister Suthep Thaugsuban also accused unidentified armed men of causing the chaos.

"The terrorists the government claimed [were there] are soldiers who do not accept the current administration, causing conflict within the army," Mr Natthawut said.

"They used the opportunity on Saturday to create unrest."

He did not identify them, or offer to help with their arrest.

(from another newspaper)

Seh Daeng?

[chantorn]

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

In a hot situation like this, why would you want to shoot a wall? I am not convince. You would either shot up, or into a charging bull. Into a wall, ha ha ha.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Would you confront men with riffle, machine gun and a pistol too? I would not. I will let them move freely. I am not suggesting if they are RED or not. I am just saying that this is not a proof that they are RED (or not RED).

[anotherpeter]

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

In a hot situation like this, why would you want to shoot a wall? I am not convince. You would either shot up, or into a charging bull. Into a wall, ha ha ha.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Would you confront men with riffle, machine gun and a pistol too? I would not. I will let them move freely. I am not suggesting if they are RED or not. I am just saying that this is not a proof that they are RED (or not RED).

Umm ... the reds were confronting hundreds of soldiers. I don't think they'd worried about an individual.

[chantorn]

NO the video shows multiple soldiers firing constantly in the crowd. Also the slain cameraman reported that live ammunition was used. (The BBC quoted Reuters already at 17.00 hr) Problem is that nobody obtained the footage except France24.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

He we are again going around in circles. What evidence is there that those rounds being fired were live rounds?

dead and wounded people?

There is no debate to be had on whether or not live rounds were used as it is undeniable that there was. My question however was: what evidence is there that the ammunition being used in the clip contained in the quotes above was live ammunition?

Guns experts out there. Can you please help us. In the few last second of the clip it show a solider and this big gun (horizontal level). Can anyone identify what type of gun it is? Most importantly is it a high power and velocity guns. I am not saying that this solider killed people, I am just thinking, if it is at all possible, if this type of gun may have caused some death on the Red side? I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

I know that rubber bullets that the Thai army used are shot from a shotgun. The unidentified gun above is clearly not a shotgun.

I also happen to know what a M16 look like and have seen many been fired horizontally (at a wall some claimed), but it does not look like this mean gun.

Also, I have visited an army camp before during my school day (children activity). They even allowed us to shoots some M16 blanks. I remember the blanks bullet clearly. Other than a small metal base, the whole of the bullet body is made of black plastic. There is no projectile head. Once the blanks are fired, the plastic body is slight broken (like someone punch a nail on the side), but stayed almost wholly intack and rejected out onto the floor. The many clips I saw where people show the spent bullet are definately live bullet of M16, as it has a metal body. I try to search for some M16 blanks photo without success. Maybe someone can help me.

[TheOldWolf]

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

In a hot situation like this, why would you want to shoot a wall? I am not convince. You would either shot up, or into a charging bull. Into a wall, ha ha ha.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Would you confront men with riffle, machine gun and a pistol too? I would not. I will let them move freely. I am not suggesting if they are RED or not. I am just saying that this is not a proof that they are RED (or not RED).

"The terrorists the government claimed [were there] are soldiers who do not accept the current administration, causing conflict within the army," Mr Natthawut said.

"They used the opportunity on Saturday to create unrest."

He did not identify them, or offer to help with their arrest.

(from another newspaper)

Sound like Seh Deang to me

[golferchin76]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

In addition to my previous reply to you.

don't know if you watched this. http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack this is from the army's side. bunch of automatics firing for a few seconds right after semi auto fired to them, then who the heck threw a grenade to the army. Like I said before in other topics, soldiers are trained to fire back. Nowhere they just have rubber bullets in their magazines because they know reds have heavy weapons with them.

all being said, this is simply fuc_king said when the whole thing went out of control. Thailand really does not need this blood shed. No one from the soldier side or red side need to die for the so called "fake democracy."

[chantorn]

OK. I found a picture of a blank. I did took some back (the used one), but it was many years ago, and I have lost them. But i confirm that the whole body is made of black plastic (just a very small metal base). The body is not metal at all. I have yet to see a clips of people finding plastic bosy blanks at the scene.

I hope I am wrong.

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/com...x-7.9Blanks.jpg

[Moonrakers]

OK. I found a picture of a blank. I did took some back (the used one), but it was many years ago, and I have lost them. But i confirm that the whole body is made of black plastic (just a very small metal base). The body is not metal at all. I have yet to see a clips of people finding plastic bosy blanks at the scene.

I hope I am wrong.

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/com...x-7.9Blanks.jpg

They said that they were using plastic bullets, not blanks. There is a difference.

http://www.piazzacarlogiuliani.org/pillola...e%20Website.htm

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

At about 9 seconds, there is something white/cream in the right of the picture. What is that? A truck? or just a sign?

Not sure what it is, but it is big.

Do you think the guy with in the black shirt that came out of the building had anything to do with it?

He walks out with something in his hand. People turn towards him, including the guy with the flag. The guy with the flag falls *away* from the direction where a group of people are leaning over someone next to the building.

Is that just a coincidence?

The guy with the flag didn't get hit by the army from the left.<snip>

Look at this cropped version of the video:

The white/cream thing comes into camera shot at the very beginning of the clip and then goes out as the camera picks up the guy in black leaving the building.

The red-shirt flag guy looks at him, walks a few steps towards him and stops.

Then just as the flag guy is almost out of camera shot, one loud shot rings out and his knees go. He naturally falls backwards. Two more loud shots follow in quick succession, followed by two more at the very end of the clip.

I don't think the way he fell indicates from which direction the shot came - his body simply collapses.

It is possible that the shot was intended for the guy in black, and the red-shirt simply got in the way of the sniper.

RIP Red Shirt.

[anotherpeter]

In addition to my previous reply to you.

don't know if you watched this. http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack this is from the army's side. bunch of automatics firing for a few seconds right after semi auto fired to them, then who the heck threw a grenade to the army. Like I said before in other topics, soldiers are trained to fire back. Nowhere they just have rubber bullets in their magazines because they know reds have heavy weapons with them.

all being said, this is simply fuc_king said when the whole thing went out of control. Thailand really does not need this blood shed. No one from the soldier side or red side need to die for the so called "fake democracy."

Yes, saw that.

It's quoted extensively by red supporters as "proof" that the army were firing live ammunition directly into the protestors. They fail to notice that they were dragging away injured and dead soldiers hit by a grenade. It's a bit hard to protect yourself from "peaceful protestors".

[chantorn]

OK. I found a picture of a blank. I did took some back (the used one), but it was many years ago, and I have lost them. But i confirm that the whole body is made of black plastic (just a very small metal base). The body is not metal at all. I have yet to see a clips of people finding plastic bosy blanks at the scene.

I hope I am wrong.

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/com...x-7.9Blanks.jpg

They said that they were using plastic bullets, not blanks. There is a difference.

http://www.piazzacarlogiuliani.org/pillola...e%20Website.htm

Thank you very much for pointing it out. I was my mistake. I am so sorry.

[dino67]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Tavor_TAR-21

Israeli Tavor TA-21

I'll say it again the first shot from the M16 may have been at the same elevation as the crowd, all the other shots including from the TA-21 are at an elevation well over the crowds head. Remember guys Bangkok is mostly flat. Pause the video and find yourself a point of reference in the background to represent horizontal - then look at the elevation of the rifles.

Appears to me they are live rounds.

Anyone else seen the video of the reds shooting up at a third floor window ? These soldiers may have been shooting at the same gunmen but from further down the street - that would explain the elevation.

[Moonrakers]

OK. I found a picture of a blank. I did took some back (the used one), but it was many years ago, and I have lost them. But i confirm that the whole body is made of black plastic (just a very small metal base). The body is not metal at all. I have yet to see a clips of people finding plastic bosy blanks at the scene.

I hope I am wrong.

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/com...x-7.9Blanks.jpg

They said that they were using plastic bullets, not blanks. There is a difference.

http://www.piazzacarlogiuliani.org/pillola...e%20Website.htm

Thank you very much for pointing it out. I was my mistake. I am so sorry.

No problem.

Also, from the website that I have linked to:

The SJPRN bullet is partially brass-covered and is specially designed for automatic weapons, for which no modifications are needed

[chantorn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Tavor_TAR-21

Israeli Tavor TA-21

I'll say it again the first shot from the M16 may have been at the same elevation as the crowd, all the other shots including from the TA-21 are at an elevation well over the crowds head. Remember guys Bangkok is mostly flat. Pause the video and find yourself a point of reference in the background to represent horizontal - then look at the elevation of the rifles.

Appears to me they are live rounds.

Anyone else seen the video of the reds shooting up at a third floor window ? These soldiers may have been shooting at the same gunmen but from further down the street - that would explain the elevation.

Thanks of the info. So this mean looking gun is smilar to a M16. I.e. It is not one of those high power sniper riffle seen in the Ameican movies.

While reading the wiki, I am amazing that Thailand bought about 30,000 of this mean looking riffle recently.

"Bullpup rifles are configured in a layout in which the bolt carrier group is placed behind the pistol grip; this shortens the overall length but does not sacrifice barrel length. The T.A.R. 21 provides carbine length, but rifle muzzle velocity. The bullpup design is also used to minimize the silhouette of soldiers and to maximize effectiveness in turning corners in urban warfare."

I hope I am think too much (a Thai term for being too imaginative); it sound as though the governemt bought it recently for the purpose of urban warfare, or in short, against its own citizen?.

Edited April 13, 2010 by chantorn