Dad Can't Speak Thai, The Kids Can't Speak English

[hextac]

Sorry, maybe its a cultural thing... I'm guessing your not British.

"[My son's English is good because] it was my duty as a father to make sure his first language is English"

Given the circumstances, if you said exactly that to me I would probably be angry too. Basically, when translated into Brit-speak, that means "[My son's English is good because] you suck as a father, and I don't".

TBF your answer was not very tactful to say the least.

Whether or not he is actually a "bad" father is debatable. Maybe he spends a lot of time working abroad? Maybe, like me, he works 18+ hours a day? Maybe he doesn't have the finances to pay for a Bi-lingual or International school? Etc.

[Garry9999]

So, he complimented you on how well your son spoke English and you gave him a lecture about fatherly responsibilities, no wonder he got upset.

[Livinginexile]

Sorry, maybe its a cultural thing... I'm guessing your not British.

"[My son's English is good because] it was my duty as a father to make sure his first language is English"

Given the circumstances, if you said exactly that to me I would probably be angry too. Basically, when translated into Brit-speak, that means "[My son's English is good because] you suck as a father, and I don't".

TBF your answer was not very tactful to say the least.

Whether or not he is actually a "bad" father is debatable. Maybe he spends a lot of time working abroad? Maybe, like me, he works 18+ hours a day? Maybe he doesn't have the finances to pay for a Bi-lingual or International school? Etc.

Nope...non of the above.

[hextac]

Sorry, maybe its a cultural thing... I'm guessing your not British.

"[My son's English is good because] it was my duty as a father to make sure his first language is English"

Given the circumstances, if you said exactly that to me I would probably be angry too. Basically, when translated into Brit-speak, that means "[My son's English is good because] you suck as a father, and I don't".

TBF your answer was not very tactful to say the least.

Whether or not he is actually a "bad" father is debatable. Maybe he spends a lot of time working abroad? Maybe, like me, he works 18+ hours a day? Maybe he doesn't have the finances to pay for a Bi-lingual or International school? Etc.

Nope...non of the above.

Huh? Please elaborate...

[DP25]

I met another English guy today, he said to me ......

I can't ever be a Thai citizen, I can't own land, I will never be allowed to be more than a foreigner here, so why should I make any effort to learn the language or take any responsibility for any children I father here. They don't want me here so @$3& em.

Foreigners can and do become Thai citizens. Some on this forum have done it and posted extensively about the process. Requires a bit more effort than your buddy is willing to put in though

[hextac]

I met another English guy today, he said to me ......

I can't ever be a Thai citizen, I can't own land, I will never be allowed to be more than a foreigner here, so why should I make any effort to learn the language or take any responsibility for any children I father here. They don't want me here so @$3& em.

Foreigners can and do become Thai citizens. Some on this forum have done it and posted extensively about the process. Requires a bit more effort than your buddy is willing to put in though

It is ridiculously difficult and requires more "effort" than most people are willing/capable of spending.

[473geo]

I wish the guy all the best with his kids, wife and his life. What he chooses to do, or not to do, will not affect my children, or the way they feel about me. So to the guy...... if it suits you and the wife, carry on because whatever I think ain't going to change you. Just the same as what you think ain't going to change me!!!!

I thought there might be a few condescending replies when I read the topic header........certainly wasn't wrong there.......does that make me right about everything else?.........

Edited April 14, 2010 by 473geo

[IanForbes]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

I have to agree with Boo on this topic. It is one thing to take on a complete Thai family who ALREADY speaks only Thai and try to teach them English, but it's entirely different to start a NEW family and not have some MUTUAL form of communication. Either the man should learn Thai or the children should learn English. Preferably, the children should earn English because at some point in their life it WILL come in handy for finding jobs as adults. As already noted, children learn far quicker than adults and they are little sponges when it comes to language skills. The little girl of the Thai family I support is a perfect mimic. I say a sentence in English and she can parrot it back to me perfectly. She may not understand what I've said, but she certainly mimics the words perfectly. It is only a short step from that to actually understanding.

It is too bad the man/father of the little children in the OP's topic is so pig headed. He is doing his family a terrible disservice.

I KNOW that Thais can learn English very quickly. I've known many young Thai women who could barely speak a word of English 5 years ago and now they are perfectly fluent in many subtle ways.

Learning Thai is quite difficult for us older blokes whose memory is not as good as it once was and neither is our hearing.

[IanForbes]

Whether you consider the man right, or wrong, he reacted in the same way most of us would if we were given a self-righteous lecture by a perfect stranger.

It would have been better if the OP had just kept his mouth shut.

True. Unfortunately, some people speak BEFORE they engage their brain. I've done it too many times myself. Then, there is a bunch of apologizing afterwards to explain what I REALLY meant. As a good friend of mine told me... "Ian, you write better than you speak." I take all advice as valid criticism and I agreed with him. When I write I have time to compose my sentences and make what I write, readable. When I speak it can come out jumbled and possibly out of context.

[bifftastic]

That's pretty sad considering my kid is not even 2 and he understands 3 languages including english and english is not my first language.

But then again, what can we expect from an english man relocating to thailand? Cant really expect everyone to be the 1% of expats who are decent human beings

Hmmm, ok and it's because he's English that there should be low expectations of him?

I've only spent four weeks with my girlfriends two lovely daughters who are 9 and 6. My Thai is very basic, her English is pretty good, the girls always want to talk to me and I to them, we smile and try our best, they take me through the Thai alphabet poster on the wall and ask me to go through the English one next to it. Basically, we communicate as best we can, if they see my face go blank when they ask me something then they'll take me and show me, then teach me the words. They also try to speak English as best they can and they enjoy it. When we were out somewhere and they wanted money to buy a drink they held out their hands and said 'papa papa, money money!' approving looks from all around when I refused and told them 'papa haa baht mee mai ka?' they responded correctly and got sip baht instead.

When we get stuck or if I want to say something important, as my Thai vocabulary is extremely basic (learning as best I can but it's a slow process) then mum will translate for us. When they're acting up (as all kids will do from time to time) either mum or myself can out a stop to it and they are, generally speaking, very well behaved and respectful.

I can't imagine having any kind of relationship with anyone without at least making the effort to talk to them.

I have, on many occasions, wished I could communicate much better with them, but judging from this thread I'm not doing too badly, for an Englishman that is!

[Patsycat]

I wish i had an internet leg humper

[Spee]

Livinginexile asked:

"What do others think?"

Language barriers can be overcome. Perhaps surprisingly, children are often better at picking up new language than adults, but often the adults hold the kids back for one reason or another. I don't agree with the frustrations but I do understand and sympathize with them.

When I met my honey, we could communicate because she spoke some English and some Japanese, in addition to Thai. I knew no Thai at all, but with just the smallest amount of effort, I put together a basic 40-50 word vocab. Anyone can do this easily.

It was much harder when I came to Thailand the first time, as I could not communicate at all with her daughter. And her family's rough regional dialect spoken quickly? Fuggetaboutit.

What I did right away was bought some basic Thai-English childrens' books at Sa-Ed, for my partner, her daughter and also for myself. At the very least, we could point to pictures and get a point across. Both my partner and I want the best for her daughter. In order for her to get there, she will need to learn English and probably at least one other language. She has now been taking English in school for four years and we also pay for an English tutor outside of school.

While everyone is entitled to their own wrong opinion, and I certainly have my share, I believe that foreigners living in Thailand or with Thai partners, should also develop their Thai language skills. Other than money, I would say that communication problems are a leading cause of relationship friction. My partner and I have certainly had our share of communication problems, sometimes meaning to say one thing and having it interpreted as something different.

[alfieconn]

Alfie, surely giving your children the best start in life whether they live in Thailand or abroad is the number one priority for a parent!

Where have i said " giving your children the best start in life " is not the number one priorty for a parent ?.

and surely out of pure choice for the children when they grow up then they absolutely need to speak, read and write English fluently!

Where have i said that they don't need to speak ,read and write English ?

I think it's a lazy mans way out to say something like "Oh they live in Thailand so why should they learn English"?

Where I work, English speaking professionals get paid far more than non English speakers.

Where have i said this ?

For your info, my daughter (13 years old) can read, write and speak English but it is not at the expense of her Thai education.

If you had taken the time to read my post correctly i was talking about the childs primary language I.E their no1 language.

Edited April 14, 2010 by alfieconn

[thaibeachlovers]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

I would agree with what you say about him not being interested with the children, but to say it's child abuse is a stretch too far ( other reply ). In any western country the single mother brigade is out of control ( I know, I've been paying tax to support them for years ) but at least he is supporting them ( so far as any of us know ). Don't have to live in LOS to not give a monkey's about your own children.

Why does everyone put HIM down, when their mother is just as much to blame for their lack of English speaking skills, or do you all think it's HIS full responsibility?

As for his lack of Thai language skills, I can understand that, as I've been trying for donkey's years to learn, but still rubbish. Just can't get my head around all the tonal stuff.

As for the OP, perhaps he got irritable because he thought you were being judgemental or some other reason. If I were out for a day with my family, and some stranger started criticizing ( not saying you were intentionally doing that, but things often get misconstrued ) me, I would get pretty stroppy myself.

[thaibeachlovers]

implies that it he is falling short of his duties. If that is not gonna upset someone, I don't know what is?

If you had not used that inflamatory language I would not be making this point but you seem to have no idea how "superior" such terms make you sound. In Pattaya I think you'd be lucky not to be taking your dinner through a straw...

LOZ

i CAN think of a few guys who would have stuck the dinner down his throat,plate an all

Charming

Amazing how threads degenerate , why can't people just debate or just give an opinion on a subject instead of getting worked up about it and getting involved in tit for tats, ahhh the world of internet forums.

IMO, people get worked up about SOME posts, because we've all had some d***h***d criticize us but been unable to punch their heads in, in the real world, and we are able to respond to some poster who evokes those feelings of frustration and anger in us, without actually ending up in court, in cyberspace.

Not to say that I believe the OP meant his post to come across like that.

I had to remove some parts of the quotes to be able to reply

[sarahsbloke]

It is possible to become a Thai citizen if you're a Farang, but thankfully, you have to do a bit more than hump someone. It would be a bit like giving a dog a treat every time it humped a cushion! There's not a lot the Thai Govt. get right but that sure is one of them.

So according to you, it's about time other governments started treating Thai nationals like the Thai government treats foreigners in Thailand then.

When a Thai lady moves to the western world, no land ownership, no citizenship, 90 day reporting, etc.

After all you seem to believe it is the right thing to do.

Edited April 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[DP25]

It is ridiculously difficult and requires more "effort" than most people are willing/capable of spending.

It requires learning Thai, which is far more effort than most Western foreigners are willing to put out. Strangely enough Indians and Chinese don't seem to have this problem.

[ilyelol]

It is ridiculously difficult and requires more "effort" than most people are willing/capable of spending.

It requires learning Thai, which is far more effort than most Western foreigners are willing to put out. Strangely enough Indians and Chinese don't seem to have this problem.

because indians and chinese have easier jobs and can endure living in 2500baht a month accommodation.

Most westerners with careers would rather die than live like that. It's hard to learn a new language when you're busy working, or trying to relax after working real hard... its easier when all you have to worry about is pushing a pen up and down on a desk and finding 5k baht to pay for your monthly expenses.

[sarahsbloke]

You seem to forget that becoming a Thai citizen also involves a large cash payment and is restricted to a very few every year.

But as WooHoo says, every country should make it just as hard to get citizenship, it is one of the things Thailand has right.

(Learning Thai is the easy part of the process IMHO)

On a more personal note, my wife has learnt to speak English very quickly, which has harmed my learning to speak Thai, but she can't read or write any English so we SMS each other in Thai. A very curious turn of events .... but it leads to some very amusing encounters with other Thais if they notice me texting.

Edited April 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[harrymand]

And please make sure you notice the use of "imo" it means "in my opinion" " or the phrase "I've see what appears to be this exact attitude" and the use of "Often it seems (to me)"

All of these statements clarify that these are my personal observations. That is the nature of the web forum & these are my opinions of cases like this I have seen

I like to post an answere here, but this forum ought to be for perfect speaking english only, I stay away. IMO YARFLUCIMO

[hextac]

It is ridiculously difficult and requires more "effort" than most people are willing/capable of spending.

It requires learning Thai, which is far more effort than most Western foreigners are willing to put out. Strangely enough Indians and Chinese don't seem to have this problem.

No, it requires 5 years consistent work permit/visa to apply for a residency permit which will cost a minimum of 100K and a shed-load of paperwork, including photos of your house and workplace. After 5 years of having a residency permit you can apply for citizenship which costs about 6K (to apply), you have to be able to converse in Thai, sing the National Anthem, and sing the King's Anthem. After which your application becomes "discretionary"...

I'm not 100% of the facts, correct me if I'm wrong.

[hextac]

It is possible to become a Thai citizen if you're a Farang, but thankfully, you have to do a bit more than hump someone.

You are a moron.

[otherstuff1957]

wow, that is really quite bad. in fact i would go as far as to say the man is a complete ***t!

i assuming he lives with them all full time? my daughter is approaching 3 and will only ever speak to me in english, she always speak to her mum in thai. her thai is better than her english but that's to be expected considering where we live. he obviously pays his children no attention whatsoever....

^Experts if bilingual education and upbringing say that this is the correct way to bring up a bilingual child . Each parent should always speak to their child in their native tongue. It can be confusing when they are young, but in the long run it will give them a sold grounding in both languages.

[jubby]

wow, that is really quite bad. in fact i would go as far as to say the man is a complete ***t!

i assuming he lives with them all full time? my daughter is approaching 3 and will only ever speak to me in english, she always speak to her mum in thai. her thai is better than her english but that's to be expected considering where we live. he obviously pays his children no attention whatsoever....

^Experts if bilingual education and upbringing say that this is the correct way to bring up a bilingual child . Each parent should always speak to their child in their native tongue. It can be confusing when they are young, but in the long run it will give them a sold grounding in both languages.

Thanks for bringing the subject back on Topic otherstuff1957.

I suspect your right.

I am a little concerned that you failed to call anyone a Moron or discuss how to attain Thai Nationality though

[wallhigh]

very obvious why the gentleman is here - for the bars and bar-girls.

how can you expect someone like that to care for anything apart from

their own sexual gratification?

after many years here, i never talk or interact to the style of person

you describe, its all too predictable:

1. dont have money to live in england, hate the weather, hate the government

2. have ex wife who is a witch

3. young girls in thailand, very cheap 1000 baht per pop

4. met in cowboy/nana/whatever and fell in love

5. she have 1 or 2 kids back up north from 1 or 2 previous thai guys who dont

take responsibility

6. married, had to pay huge sin-sod, had to pay for the buffalo to go to the vet,

had to build new mansion for MIL

7. picked up a few words of bar-thai, wofe speaks a few words of bar-tinglish

8. live happily every after in the land of smiles, until the $$ runs out

I have a small daughter, and for sure will be returning to melbourne

very soon so she can begin pre-school, and get a good education.

[somtampet]

very obvious why the gentleman is here - for the bars and bar-girls.

how can you expect someone like that to care for anything apart from

their own sexual gratification?

after many years here, i never talk or interact to the style of person

you describe, its all too predictable:

1. dont have money to live in england, hate the weather, hate the government

2. have ex wife who is a witch

3. young girls in thailand, very cheap 1000 baht per pop

4. met in cowboy/nana/whatever and fell in love

5. she have 1 or 2 kids back up north from 1 or 2 previous thai guys who dont

take responsibility

6. married, had to pay huge sin-sod, had to pay for the buffalo to go to the vet,

had to build new mansion for MIL

7. picked up a few words of bar-thai, wofe speaks a few words of bar-tinglish

8. live happily every after in the land of smiles, until the $$ runs out

I have a small daughter, and for sure will be returning to melbourne

very soon so she can begin pre-school, and get a good education.

I am very happy you will bugger off from Thailand

btw

if you think all farangs are like that,you are very sad indeed.

[KarenBravo]

very obvious why the gentleman is here - for the bars and bar-girls.

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion?

[wallhigh]

I am very happy you will bugger off from Thailand

btw

if you think all farangs are like that,you are very sad indeed.

i am happy to make you happy... but on a serious note its not me, its the

british guys you meet that talk like that...

there are alot unfortunately, examples:

Jason form Phuket, we went to bkk together to do our aviation medical, he has

wife and daughter, that night he was in cowboy, next morning he was bragging

about how her "nom" was the best ever

Ef, from CM, has a wife and 16 y.o. daughter, frequents massage parlours around

CM and brags about it.

John, from England, building a house for his wife now, 2 weeks ago had a 1/2 hour

quickie with a girl from loi Kroh

and i can easily name another 7 or 8 guys...

Edited April 15, 2010 by wallhigh

[wallhigh]

very obvious why the gentleman is here - for the bars and bar-girls.

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion?

The OP stated:

"Not only that, he could not speak a word of Thai except for a few words he learned in bars (look lorn, bag wan, sewer'a etc)."

[sarahsbloke]

I'm always surprised at the number of gentlemen who claim not to "interact with that sort of person" while sporting a lady who clearly has that sort of background and is totally ignorant of their past.

1,2 pretty much true for every man over 40 living out here

3,4,5 who hasn't at one time or another (and what's wrong with that)

A pretty sure test of the lady is to take her into "that sort of bar" (the sort that has bar fines), if she goes in you know her past, and so does everyone else (who has a little bit of common sense) who sees her enter. Don't tell the buffalo holding onto her though, he already knows she is a "good girl".

Anyway back on topic, not everyone wants to learn Thai and we didn't identify that any of the children with the man were actually his, for all we know he hooked up with the girl and the children last week and was nice enought to give them food and shelter for a while.

Edited April 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke