Thailand: Another Coup Would Be A Disaster

[hansnoi]

Pravit is the name of the writer....

Please dont try any tongue-in-cheek

I am aware of it

yesterday I thanked webfact for providing the live news updates. I remain grateful for his work and that of his colleagues. However, today I have to say that his comment on a poster who made a Pravda joke in his message is far over the top and smells like a threat of censorship and a lack of sense of humor. Since I joined this forum not so long ago I saw many more real insulting posts (especially towards Thai people) than this Pravda remark without any comment of the moderators. It's clear that the poster doesn't appreciate very much the way The Nation and/or its writer of the commentary are reporting on current events and uses a metaphore to express his opinion. So what? Especially on this forum of expats often criticizing the lack of democracy in Thailand there should be freedom of opinion, of course within limits of Thai law and civil/decent behaviour. I like to add this: I came in 2007 for the first time in Thailand and as a relative newbie I thought that joining this forum would be a contribution to my learning process. It was, but in a negative sense. I see slanging matches especially from the regular contributors to TV. To those of them who are branding the present government as 'dictators' and Abhisit as a puppet of the military with blood on his hands, demanding immediate dissolving of parliament and new elections I would say: where were you in the days Thaksin headed his government, full of corruption and responsible for atrocities? And to those of of them who are on the side of the present establishment-coalition of yellows and military: how can you justify your attacks on Thaksin and turning a blind eye on censorship, blood in the streets and corruption and (threats of) a military coup? As for me, I am a person with a liberal mind and a social conscience who is well aware that Thailand is not his country of origin, that there is no single truth to detect here, no simple black and white to choose for. What I have learned here is to observe, try to understand and to stand firm against human right violations. And last but not least, being a foreigner in a host country, to behave and express myself in a modest way. To my regret I see many 'farangs' doing the opposite. I don't have - I am aware of speaking in general terms now - the farang community here in high esteem and what I read on this forum confirms it. Thailand has its own responsibility for a lack of equal opportunities, for not having the same rights applying to everybody, for the wide gap between haves and have nots, for the existence of the sexindustry. But over the decades foreigners have made a big contribution to all this and they did take advantage of it without much thinking about the effects on Thai culture and social tension. Would it not have been nice when all the money they have spent on bars, girls, golf courses, villa's etc was invested in good education and health care for everybody? No, they prefer to get the girls out of Issan in stead of to university, they want cheap amusement, the baht rate as favourable as possible against dollar, pound or euro. Its an unarmed army of new imperialists disguised as tourists and/or expats, crying foul of everything which can make life a bit complicated in the land of smiles. Of course there are exceptions, but they cannot but confirm the general picture. And yes, I am part of that but at least aware of it. So don;t pass me the Chang (a popular comment here) but let me rest my case.

[Indo-Siam]

Hey, please don't refer to the red protesters as a mob with no political sophistication .

You are showing your prejudice by assuming these people are ignorant farmers from up country.

I have news for you ,, we know what we are fighting for and we are not " just paid to be here ".

OK - gigiman - I guess you wish to be spokesman for the Red Shirts. Great - let's see what you got.

First - please confirm to me that you have personally walked down to the stage at Rajaprasong and walked among the Reds Shirts - as I did last Saturday evening about 7:30 pm - and that you know enough Thai to communicate with them to some degree.

Next - since you "know what (you) are fighting for" - how about you educate me and the rest of the "mistaken" folks on this board: you briefly outline three, or maybe five UDD policy proposals for SPECIFIC, EXECUTABLE social, economic, educational, agricultural, or any other programs. Programs that do not now exist, that have any kind of name, any sort of definition of how they would be implemented, and that would have any bearing on the quality of life of the average Red Shirt.

My guess is - you will not be able to do it - because there are no such programs. The UDD has no idea of solutions or ability to correct or improve any of the conditions that they claim are unsatisfactory. Their entire agenda is:

1. Get Abhisit and the Democrats out

2. Get their party into power

3. Plunder via the spoils system

That's it. They can't make it rain on Issan. They can't send every farmer's kid to University. They can't reduce taxes for 30 million farmers who already pay no taxes.

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

I don't want to see Thailand go the way of Zimbabwe or Pol Pot's Cambodia - so I'm not in any hurry to turn the country over to people WHO DO NOT HAVE ANY SENSIBLE PLAN.

But - I stand ready for you to educate me, and show me where I am wrong. And - for every UDD policy program proposal you can cite to me, I assure you that I will go out and Google it, to make sure I learn thoroughly what I have been overlooking.

If you haven't personally gone down and sat among 30,000 Red Shirts at night, and if you can't come up with any specific UDD program proposals to improve the plight of the rural poor - then I suggest that you sit down and keep quiet.

[Tolley]

Like it or not the most likely scenario is a caretaker military government.

Recent Thai politcal history bears this out.

You may say these military governments are not successful but if the democratically elected ones had been successful then there would be no need for military governments at all.

Historically much of South East Asia has been effectively ruled by the military. Democratic traditions are new concepts to most of the region and the democracies that do exist and not really what most westerners would call a democracy in any case.

Easy solutions are not going to be found overnight. Unless the red shirts pack their bags and go home a caretaker military government is almost inevitable.

[LevelHead]

Has another coup of some sort already happened ?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PM-to...--30127219.html

Very very suspicious !!

Perhaps Abhisit does have high morals and now wants to resign and dissolve the House, but is being "persuaded" not to inside the Army base ???????

[mythBuster]

Prayuth will try to make a coup. he can do so because the opportunistic politicians who loved to let themselves be used by sitting in, in a rubber stamp parliament under Sonthi, has approved an amnesty for criminals who raped democracy. If that is not an stimulus to commit a coup, especially when we deal with a general who fell out with Anupong is a hard-liner and who sees his prospects of becoming the new army chief in September of October destroyed if elections are held within the next three months or so.

General P, we just call him Prayuth does not have the country in mind just like Prem and Sonthi had themselves and their rich friends in mind when they ousted a government that was democratically elected.

But Thailand has long be a banana republic in which the wishes of the people are set aside for the good of the economy, and the economy belongs to just 4% of the population. I assume that the Nation is busy shooting pictures of tanks that have vases fitted to receive flowers from their friends again. The last one who should complain about a coup is the Nation Multimedia Group, they were instrumental in the rape of democracy.

[yoshiwara]

Prayuth will try to make a coup. he can do so because the opportunistic politicians who loved to let themselves be used by sitting in, in a rubber stamp parliament under Sonthi, has approved an amnesty for criminals who raped democracy. If that is not an stimulus to commit a coup, especially when we deal with a general who fell out with Anupong is a hard-liner and who sees his prospects of becoming the new army chief in September of October destroyed if elections are held within the next three months or so.

General P, we just call him Prayuth does not have the country in mind just like Prem and Sonthi had themselves and their rich friends in mind when they ousted a government that was democratically elected.

But Thailand has long be a banana republic in which the wishes of the people are set aside for the good of the economy, and the economy belongs to just 4% of the population. I assume that the Nation is busy shooting pictures of tanks that have vases fitted to receive flowers from their friends again. The last one who should complain about a coup is the Nation Multimedia Group, they were instrumental in the rape of democracy.

Funny how red apologists although they purport to be against capitalism hardly raise demands for its revolutionary overthrow by a Bolshevik Party aka 1917 but instead throw themselves behind the arch-capitalist Thaksin and push his agenda of attacking anyone and everything which does not reflect the lunacy of their half-digested politics.

Life is difficult for a Thaksin apologist.

But it gives everybody else a laugh.

Until the reds chuck petrol bombs.

Or is that the fake reds?

Mr Myth

[Jingthing]

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

As would I and I assume the majority of foreign anti-reds. I would also add they would need to drop their hard core radical factions and drop their use of violence and intimidation, drop their support of Thaksin, and drop their piggish refusal to go to peace talks.

[noel2499rk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0041404391.html

Another international editorial piece that along with the guardian and wall street journal piece shows the reds are winning the international propaganda war.

[noel2499rk]

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

As would I and I assume the majority of foreign anti-reds. I would also add they would need to drop their hard core radical factions and drop their use of violence and intimidation, drop their support of Thaksin, and drop their piggish refusal to go to peace talks.

These are the UDD's six principles

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process.

3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people.

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards.

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system.

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives.

I like 5 myself ending the Amartyatippatai system essentiall for the developement of Thailand.

[clinique]

Has another coup of some sort already happened ?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PM-to...--30127219.html

Very very suspicious !!

Perhaps Abhisit does have high morals and now wants to resign and dissolve the House, but is being "persuaded" not to inside the Army base ???????

Nail on the head - Level head !!

100% agreed.

which just goes to show - he was NOT elected - he was nominated by those behind the scenes who REALLY control Thailand,,

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

[chadintheusa]

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

As would I and I assume the majority of foreign anti-reds. I would also add they would need to drop their hard core radical factions and drop their use of violence and intimidation, drop their support of Thaksin, and drop their piggish refusal to go to peace talks.

These are the UDD's six principles

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process.

3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people.

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards.

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system.

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives.

I like 5 myself ending the Amartyatippatai system essentiall for the developement of Thailand.

Really?

They don't seem to be able to live up to their own principles then. The protests have violated almost all of these supposed aims. They've driven Thai people apart. They've violated numerous laws, they've refused to negotiate, they've used violence over and over.

[Neurath]

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

As would I and I assume the majority of foreign anti-reds. I would also add they would need to drop their hard core radical factions and drop their use of violence and intimidation, drop their support of Thaksin, and drop their piggish refusal to go to peace talks.

These are the UDD's six principles

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process.

3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people.

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards.

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system.

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives.

I like 5 myself ending the Amartyatippatai system essentiall for the developement of Thailand.

All 6) are very sensible and eminently supportable. But that is not in question.

[chadintheusa]

Has another coup of some sort already happened ?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PM-to...--30127219.html

Very very suspicious !!

Perhaps Abhisit does have high morals and now wants to resign and dissolve the House, but is being "persuaded" not to inside the Army base ???????

Nail on the head - Level head !!

100% agreed.

which just goes to show - he was NOT elected - he was nominated by those behind the scenes who REALLY control Thailand,,

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

The PM is a member of parliament. He was elected to represent his riding. By violating the election rules other parties managed to get themselves tossed out. The PM is the leader of the largest coalition of parties and thus has the right to form the current government. That's how this style of democracy works. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean he wasn't elected. Letting 10000 or 30000 citizens oust an elected government isn't democracy, it's tyranny.

[stingray]

Honestly I think a military ditatorship would be the best for thailand. they are so mired in corruption they can't have an effective democracy.

People here sell thier vote, goverment officials raid the coffers of the people unhindered.

They are on the verge of becoming a failed state and now all the top crooks are poised to take over the country... yeah. a coup would be good at this point!

At least we'd have peace in the streets.

Paraguay has also military dictatorship and it works perfectly for a thirt world country. They are not prepered for democracy now. Everywhere where is democracy is the same. Most of protesters have nothig to do, exept protest on the streets, even in Europe. Most of them don't have a job, don't want work or lazy to work, even living from sozial welfare, they just try to disturb the system, because they don't have anything to do and nothing to lose, so they are against business peaple and other peaple (middle class) who have something and who can afford something. But why those peaples have something? Because they worked for, but let's call the "lazy ones" want get things without do anything for. They allways living in a idea to change anything in the hope it will "rain" money for them.

[WAERTH]

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

Mob rule which we have now (starting with the yellow mobs, continuing with the red mobs) is also power to the people but it far from democracy. It is more a form of "people's terrorism".

Be carefull what you wish for when you wish power for the people.

W

[dhrobertson]

If the Red Shirts had any concrete proposals for substantive reform or improvement, I would probably be a UDD Supporter. But - all I see is a Zimbabwe-like movement to "tear down the successful white farmers" - mixed with truckloads of cheering, red-clad militia that remind me of nothing other than the Khmer Rouge entering Phnom Penh in April 1975.

As would I and I assume the majority of foreign anti-reds. I would also add they would need to drop their hard core radical factions and drop their use of violence and intimidation, drop their support of Thaksin, and drop their piggish refusal to go to peace talks.

These are the UDD's six principles

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process.

3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people.

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards.

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system.

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives.

I like 5 myself ending the Amartyatippatai system essentiall for the developement of Thailand.

All 6) are very sensible and eminently supportable. But that is not in question.

Way too wooly.

1) Why are the reds asking for one man one vote on the BBC? They already have it. Voting buying nis most prevelant in the N and NE.

2) What specific elements of the constitution are they objecting to? Nobody knows.

3) Socio-economic problems are solved by governments. How can you vote for a party with no manifesto?

4) Rule of law is indeed weak here. However what do the reds want? No more bribing the police?

5) It's not the aristocracy per se, it's the endemic corruption.

6) Non violence? Ha.

No, we need political parties with clear manifestos, communicated to all.

[featography]

Honestly I think a military ditatorship would be the best for thailand. they are so mired in corruption they can't have an effective democracy.

People here sell thier vote, goverment officials raid the coffers of the people unhindered.

They are on the verge of becoming a failed state and now all the top crooks are poised to take over the country... yeah. a coup would be good at this point!

At least we'd have peace in the streets.

Your logic baffles me. You are distressed by the nation being on the verge of disaster and crooks taking over and then write a coup would be good. Where have you been for the past 50 years or so? Are you clueless to what has occurred in Thailand during that time? Here are some hints from the past few months;

- An expensive bomb detection device was purchased, that has since been shown to be useless. Despite the money spent, no one in the military has taken responsibility.

- An expensive adventure with a blimp was undertaken. Had the due diligence been effected before the undertaking the obvious would have been discovered.

- There are multiple reports of human rights abuses and allegations of killing squads on the loose in the Southern territories under the control of the army. Yet, there is no acknowledgement of these reports nor attempt to onvestigate the allegations.

- Key military leaders are alleged to have holdings that far exceed their pay grades.

If you are not pleased with the civilian crooks, why would you be pleased with the possibility of crooks in uniform taking over? I take you do not care about such concepts of accountability or really care about law and order ouutside of paying lip service as long as you can do what you want, right?

Has it dawned on you that this is precisely what a specific group is trying to accomplish? Push the society to the edge where it welcomes a military dictatorship. It's a tried and true strategy, but you may find that an attempted coup will make the current UDD- government arguments seem like a punchout on the playground. There will not be peace on the streets because the specific units that would be implicated would cause other military units to resist. It may come as a surprise to you, but there are plenty of military personnel that are honest, resent the conduct of the senior officer corps and they love Thailand. There will be resistance this coup and you will be crying for your former homeland to come and rescue you.

Well put. In my first year living here, a neighbor and good friend, said Thailand is more high so than farang realize. Thailand only country where robbers wear uniforms.

[clinique]

Has another coup of some sort already happened ?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PM-to...--30127219.html

Very very suspicious !!

Perhaps Abhisit does have high morals and now wants to resign and dissolve the House, but is being "persuaded" not to inside the Army base ???????

Nail on the head - Level head !!

100% agreed.

which just goes to show - he was NOT elected - he was nominated by those behind the scenes who REALLY control Thailand,,

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

The PM is a member of parliament. He was elected to represent his riding. By violating the election rules other parties managed to get themselves tossed out. The PM is the leader of the largest coalition of parties and thus has the right to form the current government. That's how this style of democracy works. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean he wasn't elected. Letting 10000 or 30000 citizens oust an elected government isn't democracy, it's tyranny.

But its OK for the "powers that be" to oust elected officials (elected by the people) - is that right !!

And for the military to step in and take over when they are 'not happy; with the situation - ie : it effects their re-shuffle.

This is aristocratic power base at work -

And i understand perfectly well thank you - how it 'really' works..

[chadintheusa]

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

Mob rule which we have now (starting with the yellow mobs, continuing with the red mobs) is also power to the people but it far from democracy. It is more a form of "people's terrorism".

Be carefull what you wish for when you wish power for the people.

W

Correct, democracy happens in fair and transparent process with votes, not by unleashing violent mobs led by thugs.

[clinique]

The REDS want power to the people - you know - that thing we call democracy,,

OTHERS - obviously never have and never will want or give 'power' to the people.. (or anything else for that matter..

Mob rule which we have now (starting with the yellow mobs, continuing with the red mobs) is also power to the people but it far from democracy. It is more a form of "people's terrorism".

Be carefull what you wish for when you wish power for the people.

W

And we are all better of with "power to Wall street" or "power to the City (of London)"

Same struggles just in a different form.....

[Indo-Siam]

The objectives are "nice" - but I have seen nothing that suggests to me that the UDD has any concrete policy or program proposals to advance Thailand toward accomplishing any of these "nice" goals.

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

OK - so - what? Is the UDD going to tell the Monarch what he will and will not do, or say? If I am not mistaken, the current administration is promoting reform of the constitutional role of the monarch: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp...2/1/.html\ Can you provide a reference to any similar comments by a UDD spokesman - that are substantially different - as in - enough to justify immediate dissolution of the current government?

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process.

In the initial "peace talks" on 29 March, PM Abhisit laid out a detailed proposal and time-line for accomplishing such amendments - to be followed by an election. That sure sounded reasonable to me. The UDD says we want it done - and Abhisit gave a very realistic response outlining a process and a time line. Jatuporn rejected this because he thought amendments would take longer. Nothing leads me to see any reason to hastily dissolve the sitting government.

3) 3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people.

The Red idea of how to do this appears to be via confrontational mob action. The Red leaders are steadfastly REFUSING to meet for further talks with the leaders of the incumbent coalition. This appears to DIRECTLY contradict this point. The Reds are insincere about inclusive compromises involving all parties. Their only solution is "Do it our way, or we riot".

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards.

Noble goal. So - tell us HOW they propose to do this - EXACTLY. What changes will they make? What SPECIFIC changes in the law enforcement branch? What SPECIFIC changes in the judicial process? What new laws? They cannot answer - and certainly not with sufficiently well-formed proposals to inspire me to want to see them rushed into office, to replace the existing government.

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system.

No - they want to unite all Thais that agree with them, and they demonize all Thais that do not conform to their ideas. I've sat at their stage and listened to the vitrol being spewed by their speakers - and watched PTV and UDD-TV - and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing "uniting" about their standard speeches.

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives.

Lip service. We won't use "violence" - we will use intimidation, just short of violence. Do it our way, or we crush you. The sitting government has been EXTREMELY gentle with the mobs.

Lofty goals are fine. Without a specific game plan, process, and time-line for accomplishing very well-structured process steps, the UDD is not ready to replace the sitting government. There is certainly no compelling reason to unseat the current administration, and replace them with people who have no plan.

The UDD manifesto that you cited is populist "fluff - without substance. It makes no compelling argument for immediate, urgent change.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Indo-Siam

[chadintheusa]

Deputy PM's Secretary-General Panithan Watanayakorn said Thursday that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will refrain from giving interviews to media for several more days for safety reason.

Mark Twain once said "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and allow PTV to use your interview to make doctored audio clips which will be used to incite violence"

[animatic]

Most of the problems we are having now can be laid on the taint (whether real or imagined) of the military coup and its effect on the current constitution and government.

i totally agree with that. love or hate Taxin, he was a democratically elected PM with 2-3 years left to serve. he should have been impeached for corruption and the courts to decide his guilt. everything has gone nom-up since the coup and i don't see it will ever recover.

Thaksin was a "democratically" elected PM that dissolved parliament and called elections. Those elections were invalidated by the Consititution courts prior to the coup.

At the time of the coup, Thaksin was the care-taker PM appointed by the King.

Yes he was legally the PM at the time of the military coup .

Well other than he had expired his time period as a Caretaker P.M. and was not apparently re-appointed,

his resigning publicly after a meeting in the Palace was a good indication of this...

And then un-resigning himself unilaterally a week or so later.

Sorry when you resign publicly that's it you're out.

No, 'Oh, I changed my mind'. I don't need to be reapopointed I can do it myself.

One can assume that this was not appreciated in several quarters.

But you still say he was legally PM, and that is not strictly jake with the facts.

[ozzieman05]

As I am from the west, to me having another coup makes no sense

But from the Thai wife they thingk different

Parliment is doomed if it does

Doomed if it does not

Red shirt are doomed if they get what they want, as it is not democracy

Yet doomed if they don't as this is what they want

We are now in a no win situation

Only way we can possibly win is if the silent minority come out and say what they want

Most of her friends say "they not worry us, where we are" "So not our worry"

The best example is look at what the mob left behind when they moved on

One hel_l of a mess for other Thai's to clean up

If they get into power it will be no different to what they will do to the country

Power and corruption is part of the Thai life style

Unless the silent Majority are will to stand up and ask for a better future

There never will be one and we deserve what we get

On the Farm when bad fruit sets in we destroy and kill all that is bad

and start with a fresh crop, and spend time to nurture a good crop

Try to keep that which is bad and rotten

Only destroys what will grow afterwards

wife is a Bhuddist but asked me

Did not your God destroy evil with a flood so what came latter would be better ?

She is a real believer in the Tarot Cards

Death in Tarot is a new begining

Once cancer sets in, best to cut it out and allow the rest of the body to survive

So it is her belief now the army must destroy the rot that has set in on both sides, and allow the time for new leaders to grow from the soil, if we destroy corruption while they are young they will grow stronger

Thailand needs a chance and a future

Not in the Reds

Not in the Yellows

Only the army can clean the land

This is there land, and their beliefs we are just visitors with opinions

[hammered]

How long will it be before people start asking for Thaksin to come back as he is the only one who can contrtol and send back home the reds? The subplots are interesting as ever.

Edited to add: anyway back to continue enjoying Songkhran. It is recommneded

Edited April 15, 2010 by hammered

[clinique]

As I am from the west, to me having another coup makes no sense

But from the Thai wife they thingk different

Parliment is doomed if it does

Doomed if it does not

Red shirt are doomed if they get what they want, as it is not democracy

Yet doomed if they don't as this is what they want

We are now in a no win situation

Only way we can possibly win is if the silent minority come out and say what they want

Most of her friends say "they not worry us, where we are" "So not our worry"

The best example is look at what the mob left behind when they moved on

One hel_l of a mess for other Thai's to clean up

If they get into power it will be no different to what they will do to the country

Power and corruption is part of the Thai life style

Unless the silent Majority are will to stand up and ask for a better future

There never will be one and we deserve what we get

On the Farm when bad fruit sets in we destroy and kill all that is bad

and start with a fresh crop, and spend time to nurture a good crop

Try to keep that which is bad and rotten

Only destroys what will grow afterwards

wife is a Bhuddist but asked me

Did not your God destroy evil with a flood so what came latter would be better ?

She is a real believer in the Tarot Cards

Death in Tarot is a new begining

Once cancer sets in, best to cut it out and allow the rest of the body to survive

So it is her belief now the army must destroy the rot that has set in on both sides, and allow the time for new leaders to grow from the soil, if we destroy corruption while they are young they will grow stronger

Thailand needs a chance and a future

Not in the Reds

Not in the Yellows

Only the army can clean the land

This is there land, and their beliefs we are just visitors with opinions

well said,,

my thoughts exactly, but could not obviously express them as well as you have !

well done.

[clinique]

How long will it be before people start asking for Thaksin to come back as he is the only one who can contrtol and send back home the reds? The subplots are interesting as ever.

Edited to add: anyway back to continue enjoying Songkhran. It is recommneded

global history of democracy;

aristocracy vs the serfs;

long ago England - Robin Hood....!!story i know.

eventually the people get what they want, at a big cost in other terms in most instances because they dont have the money to make it happen like the 'elite' do...

[britmaveric]

Only army can clean the land? well not this time since there seems to be major fractures within and it looks like they will be staying out of this one.

Edited April 15, 2010 by britmaveric

[clinique]

Only army can clean the land? well not this time since there seems to be major fractures within and it looks like they will be staying out of this one.

Appearances , my dear friend, appearances !!! TIT..

excuse needed,,then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stingray]

Honestly I think a military ditatorship would be the best for thailand. they are so mired in corruption they can't have an effective democracy.

People here sell thier vote, goverment officials raid the coffers of the people unhindered.

They are on the verge of becoming a failed state and now all the top crooks are poised to take over the country... yeah. a coup would be good at this point!

At least we'd have peace in the streets.

Paraguay has also Military Goverment. It's the best for a third world country. Classical example is Irak. Saddam could handle his country, but the US can't. Protest is not the answer. Only peaple who are lazy to work, job or homeless go to protest, as they have nothing to lose, similar like sozialilsm in Eruope. Not only in LOS, even in Europe it's the same. Peaple who doing business or have a good job, don't have time for protests. Protests are not Democracy either. Real democracy is, that have to get a reverendum, a pedition of 100'00 votes to call for new elections. But red the democrats call for democracy, but handle things the anarchy way. What kind of democracy is this?