Permanent Resident Status

[alanw]

Dear Dr. PatPong,

I gained Permanent Residence status about 6 years ago.

Given all the talk about the need for various amounts of money in bank accounts, from July next year, are you aware of any 'money in the bank' requirements, from July 04, for people already holding PR status?

Following questions are idle curiosity.

Are you aware of any major changes, or impending changes, in the 'rules' to gain PR?

Additinally, are you aware of the what (approximate) total numbers of people are being approved these days, per year, for PR - I recall that the year I got approval the immigration people (2nd floor Soi Suan Plu) mentioned that only about 30 people had been approved (for that year).

Look forward to and appreciate your comments?

AlanW

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Alan, there's no changes announced for PR's. Once you achieve this heady status, they seem to leave you pretty well alone, and only look you over each 5 years. There's no announcements regarding changes to PR eligibility. How have authorities treated you over the 6 years?

Notionally they provide for 100 per country per year, but some nations are less favoured than others, so I doubt that there's anything like that number. I don't actually know, but I'll ask around and see if I can find out for you ( I'd like to know too )

[alanw]

Thanks for your comments.

You asked " How have authorities treated you over the 6 years? ".

Overall, after approval, it's been smooth sailing. Although I live and work in Bangkok, my police registration is in the Bang Lamung district (the larger district which includes Pattaya). Each time I've been to reconfirm my address, at Bang Lamung Police Station, they have given me prompt and very courteous attention.

By the 'rules', PRs are supposed to reconfirm address every year for three years, then on the next visit the 5 year reconfirm period comes into play. At the second yearly visit, the officer politely asked me whether I would like to have the 5 year stamp, to which I obviously agreed.

My work takes my across the whole Asia region and I travel frequenty, my resident book has twice been full with 'in & out' visa stamps, and I've had to therefore visit Suan Plu to get the book replaced.

The first time it was on the spot renewal, and free. The second time, quite recently, one week processing time, just to check whether I had established a police record, and 3,800 Baht process fee. However I should quickly add that I don't object to this check, to me this seems fair and reasonable.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Glad to hear it Alan. I think that once you get through the minefield they think you have earned a break. I'll get back as soon as I can give you information.

[sabaijai]

If I might interject a comment on numbers of PR applications, my lawyer told me, with respect to Americans who apply for PR in Thailand, that only on average 20-30 apply each year. He didn't say how many were granted PR status, on average.

He did give the opinion that at the moment it was easier to get Thai citizenship, once you already had PR, than it was to get PR in the first place. He commented that this is the reverse of the situation 10-15 years ago.

I do recall that in the late 70s, when I first began living here, PR seemed a lot easier to obtain. Many of my friends from that era got PR without work permits, just after having lived in Thailand a few years, some as monks, some as Peace Corps volunteers, etc. In those days I wasn't thinking long-term enough to consider applying for PR. Now that I am thinking that way, naturally I regret not having applied way back then.

Hence one of the reasons I want to apply as soon as I'm eligible under the current regs is because it seems fairly reasonable to conclude it will only get more difficult in the future.

And because of PR's ultimate revokability, I would take it to the next logical step, citizenship, as soon as I became eligible.

Alan, have you thought of applying for citizenship?

[tomy]

Is there a place or a way i can buy a PR , just a thought

[sabaijai]

I believe there is a special category of PR for investors. The minimum investment required was pretty astounding, by my standards, though I don't recall the exact amount.

According to my Thai sources, when Purachai was still interior minister, he instructed Thai immigration to refuse all applications for PR. And until he left that office, no PRs were granted in Thailand for any nationality, despite the quotas, etc.

One Swiss investor who had taken the dive and put down a ton of Swiss francs sued both Purachai and the taw maw (immigration police). He won the case and became the only person who had applied during that period to receive PR. I've wondered since then whether this lawsuit had anything to do with Purachai's change of posts.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tomy is a border walker on a 30 day basis ....No way for Tomy

[PvtDick]

According to my Thai sources, when Purachai was still interior minister, he instructed Thai immigration to refuse all applications for PR. And until he left that office, no PRs were granted in Thailand for any nationality, despite the quotas, etc.

This is not accurate. My PR was approved under Purachai's reign (I received it in September 2002).

[sabaijai]

Thanks for correcting that, Dick. It may be that the lawyer told me this before that date (the date you received PR). In which case you may have been an indirect beneficiary of the Swiss investor's lawsuit. Or maybe not ... I don't know the dates of that case.

Would you like to give us more details on your experience obtaining PR status? It's interesting hearing all the different angles on this. Some people are told one thing, others another, with regard to number of years on WP beforehand, etc.

[tomy]

Tomy is a border walker on a 30 day basis ....No way for Tomy

hey, hey, i don't run border all the time, only when im lazy, 50/50% of the time i travel around asian country to beg for multi visa, talking about it i haven't been home for awhile maybe next trip im going home for a few week, hope i don't have to explain to my parent how did i stay out of the country that long on a tourist visa, problaly just tell them that i ran border like the mexican ran border in southern Cali.

[PvtDick]

asdrf

[sabaijai]

Thanks for sharing those details, PvtDick. I hope it goes as smoothly for me as it did for you. Could you comment on why it took two years for the application to go through?

I'm feeling fairly encouraged at this point, reading of yours and AlanW's experiences. I'm over 50, am married to a Thai, own a condo, speak/read/write Thai fluently, and will have been living on a non-B with WP for three years as of next year, though I've lived in Thailand much longer that that on non-Bs without WP, mostly as a student or independent contractor. I have a BA plus two MAs, all from well-established US universities.

I see two major advantages to having PR, for me. 1) Because even at the current (married) rate, it will pay for itself in 17 years (perhaps sooner if the rates rise again); 2) because, as you say, it's a necessary step towards Thai naturalization.

What have you heard with regard to how many years you must be on PR before you're eligible for citizenship?

[PvtDick]

asdf

[sabaijai]

My Thai-language immigration handbook, published about a year ago, does say three years on PR is the main prerequisite for naturalization. That seems pretty liberal to me, though what the books say and what the men and women in khaki do are often quite separate.

Good luck on the bor hok test! Maybe I should take it -- I suppose one could submit this as a supporting document for either PR or naturalization. I know several farangs who've passed it, and their Thai is not really all that advanced (not as good as mine anyway, he interjects modestly), so it must not be too difficult.

Let us know how it goes.

[CMexpat]

Hi everybody, I just registered today but have been following this thread for some time.

I applied for the PR last year December and received a letter of approval last week. That is less then 12 months. My age is below 40, so the over 40 thing is a rumour. I can't read or write Thai, but I understand and speak the language. I did the application myself with the help of my Thai wife. Without her support it would have been very difficult to get all the local documents, especially the tax papers. I have been in Thailand for a period of ten years on one year visas with a work permit.

I agree with PvtDick that the immigration officials are very friendly and helpfull and that no "tip" has been requested during any time of the application period.

[sabaijai]

Yet another encouraging report! Thanks CMexpat. Could I ask what your nationality is? If you'd rather keep that info private, no worries.

[PvtDick]

There is no "over 40 only" rule for PR. Qualified people of any age can apply. Supposedly, you have to be 40 before you can apply for citizenship.

[sabaijai]

Interesting that you have to be over 40 to get citizenship. Most other countries discriminate in the opposite direction, thinking labour productivity, etc. I looked into Aussie citizenship once and was shocked to see the Oz govt doesn't accept applications from anyone over 45.