Aerated Cement (superblock)

[bankruatsteve]

I see some threads on this before – so please indulge yet another perhaps a bit different…

I’ve been looking at “Superblock” and cannot find any good reason NOT to use it here in LOS. Eg: my rough calculations compare it quite favorably to some other options (like ½ the cost of “Smart Block”) and about the same as the little red brick that seems to dominate the construction scene. And, to me the insulation and workable qualities seem far superior to other blocks not to mention the labor savings due to larger size than most other options.

Or, what am I missing? Otherwise, here’s my questions…

Q1: Does anybody have this type of block used for home construction more than 2-3 years can comment on durability? Any abnormal cracks/crumbling or other deterioration?

Q2: There seems to be special adhesion material (not sure whether to call it cement or glue?) required for the Superblock. And, I see two different types: 1) dry application 2) wet application. What does that imply? Is the wet for bath areas only? Or, does that apply to exterior walls? Or what?

Thanks

[Naam]

"Does anybody have this type of block used for home construction more than 2-3 years can comment on durability? Any abnormal cracks/crumbling or other deterioration?"

my house in Germany was built with gas concrete blocks in 1973. it is still standing and there were never any problems. my house in Thailand was built with the same blocks 4 years ago. i am extremely satisfied. does that answer your question?

[katabeachbum]

they suck water, approx 50% of their own weight. thus I dont use them for wet walls. I also never install them directly on concrete floor, but make one or two lines with red clayed bricks first.

they can not carry as much load as clayed red bricks. thus I dont use them for kitchenwalls.

besides that, all advantages

[bankruatsteve]

"Does anybody have this type of block used for home construction more than 2-3 years can comment on durability? Any abnormal cracks/crumbling or other deterioration?"

my house in Germany was built with gas concrete blocks in 1973. it is still standing and there were never any problems. my house in Thailand was built with the same blocks 4 years ago. i am extremely satisfied. does that answer your question?

Yes - that answers my question about durability. Did you use the "wet application" cement for your Thai house? Or?? What about lintels? Do you need to do anything special? Thanks.

[bankruatsteve]

they suck water, approx 50% of their own weight. thus I dont use them for wet walls. I also never install them directly on concrete floor, but make one or two lines with red clayed bricks first.

they can not carry as much load as clayed red bricks. thus I dont use them for kitchenwalls.

besides that, all advantages

Thanks for the heads up. I'm a bit confused though. Withouth getting into the chemistry, I wonder why aerated blocks would "suck" water? I would think normal concrete would absorb water more than aerated. Anyway... can you tell me your experience with that?

And, as I asked previous poster, do you have any comments for the "wet" vs "dry" application cement/glue/whatever?

Thanks.

[Rimmer]

they suck water, approx 50% of their own weight. thus I dont use them for wet walls. I also never install them directly on concrete floor, but make one or two lines with red clayed bricks first.

they can not carry as much load as clayed red bricks. thus I dont use them for kitchenwalls.

besides that, all advantages

Kitchenwalls are heavier than dining room walls?

[stgrhe]

There is actually no problem at all using the super blocks in the wet rooms, but before tiling the walls should first be applied with a moisture sealant such as e.g. Radcrete's Radcon Formula 7. In fact also the red bricks and the concrete blocks absorb water so whatever type of wall material one uses one had better apply a moisture barrier to avoid fungus in wet rooms.

It is important to understand that the tile grout is not water resistant.

[Naam]

they suck water, approx 50% of their own weight. thus I dont use them for wet walls. I also never install them directly on concrete floor, but make one or two lines with red clayed bricks first.

they can not carry as much load as clayed red bricks. thus I dont use them for kitchenwalls.

besides that, all advantages

Kitchenwalls are heavier than dining room walls?

i am sure he meant hanging kitchen cabinets on superblock walls is not advisable (a wrong assumption).

[Naam]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm a bit confused though. Withouth getting into the chemistry, I wonder why aerated blocks would "suck" water? I would think normal concrete would absorb water more than aerated. Anyway... can you tell me your experience with that?

And, as I asked previous poster, do you have any comments for the "wet" vs "dry" application cement/glue/whatever?

Thanks.

aerated blocks are much more porous than concrete and if exposed to water they do indeed absorb a lot of it. the special mortar used for the blocks is called glue because only a fraction of thickness (compared to normal mortar) is applied. there is no such thing like a "dry" application.

[katabeachbum]

they suck water, approx 50% of their own weight. thus I dont use them for wet walls. I also never install them directly on concrete floor, but make one or two lines with red clayed bricks first.

they can not carry as much load as clayed red bricks. thus I dont use them for kitchenwalls.

besides that, all advantages

Kitchenwalls are heavier than dining room walls?

i am sure he meant hanging kitchen cabinets on superblock walls is not advisable (a wrong assumption).

yepp, thanks Naam.

Not a problem to hang kitchen cabinets on Superblock, but redbrick walls are just stronger making it more easy to avoid cracks. The most commonly used superblocks here are 7,5 cm, while in Europe 15-25cm are used.

Building in superblock, I use lintels just like building redbricks. To avoid cracks. superblocks are fast to build, as they are large and glued.

I see no reason to make bathrooms in superblocks with advanced moisture barriers. Redbricks are stronger, withstand water better and even with perfect barriers there will some day at some point be moisture/leaks hitting bricks.

redbricks suck 5-10 % water. aerated blocks 50-70%. 24 hours soaked in water. scaled before and after. In LOS, brand names Superblock and C-lite seems to be the best products. Q-con not so good.

[Rimmer]

Superblock and C-lite seems to be the best products. Q-con not so good.

That's an interesting statement can you quantify please?

Thanks

[katabeachbum]

Superblock and C-lite seems to be the best products. Q-con not so good.

That's an interesting statement can you quantify please?

Thanks

5 different brand names. scaled them. soaked them in water for 24 hours, scaled them again. 50-70% difference. simple pressure test. significant difference.

[bkkbill]

Plan to use gas concrete blocks in my next build the same as I have done on my last two remodel/addition. Never noticed any cracking of walls in the kitchen but even if there was I would not be able to see them as the cabinets cover everything. When the aircons were installed they put in about ten screws still no problem or cracks but it has only been about eleven years. As for my bathrooms the walls are covered with tile so if my house isn’t flooded by a few meters of water guess there shouldn’t be a problem. Although the moisture sealant idea is helpful thanks stgrhe.

[katabeachbum]

Plan to use gas concrete blocks in my next build the same as I have done on my last two remodel/addition. Never noticed any cracking of walls in the kitchen but even if there was I would not be able to see them as the cabinets cover everything. When the aircons were installed they put in about ten screws still no problem or cracks but it has only been about eleven years. As for my bathrooms the walls are covered with tile so if my house isn't flooded by a few meters of water guess there shouldn't be a problem. Although the moisture sealant idea is helpful thanks stgrhe.

neither tiles, grout, screwholes or pipeholes are watertight. lifetime moisture superblocks max 15 years. kinda short for a house in my opinion. most houses where I come from last 100-200 years.

get a meter and check humidity in your showerwalls, and you can see when you need to rebuild them

I am a fan of superblocks, and own several homes build in it, but do see its limits and am able to find better solutions where needed

Edited April 18, 2010 by katabeachbum

[bkkbill]

Well if fifteen years is the expected life of these blocks there will be a lot of masons in these countries that will be very happy as they all manufacture autoclaved aerated concrete blocks.

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Hungary, Holland, Poland, Slovakian Republic, Slovenia, Switzerland, USA, Mexico, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Peoples Republic of China, Japan, Australia, Turkey, Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, India, Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Denmark, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Russia, Kazakhstan, Spain, USA, France, Finland, Norway, Brazil and Latvia.

Maybe we should inform them. Oh think I will pass on the humidity meter check.

[stgrhe]

Well if fifteen years is the expected life of these blocks there will be a lot of masons in these countries that will be very happy as they all manufacture autoclaved aerated concrete blocks.

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Hungary, Holland, Poland, Slovakian Republic, Slovenia, Switzerland, USA, Mexico, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Peoples Republic of China, Japan, Australia, Turkey, Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, India, Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Denmark, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Russia, Kazakhstan, Spain, USA, France, Finland, Norway, Brazil and Latvia.

Maybe we should inform them. Oh think I will pass on the humidity meter check.

Ytong aerated concrete blocks have been used extensively in Sweden in over 60 years without any major problem.

[katabeachbum]

Well if fifteen years is the expected life of these blocks there will be a lot of masons in these countries that will be very happy as they all manufacture autoclaved aerated concrete blocks.

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Hungary, Holland, Poland, Slovakian Republic, Slovenia, Switzerland, USA, Mexico, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Peoples Republic of China, Japan, Australia, Turkey, Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, India, Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Denmark, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Russia, Kazakhstan, Spain, USA, France, Finland, Norway, Brazil and Latvia.

Maybe we should inform them. Oh think I will pass on the humidity meter check.

Ytong aerated concrete blocks have been used extensively in Sweden in over 60 years without any major problem.

Manufactoring autocleved aerated concrete blocks does not indicate bathrooms are build in these countries as they are here. Any pvc pressure wateripes in any of these countries?

Renovating bathrooms every 15 years or so I consider a problem

As far as I know it has fir 3 decades been illegal to build in waterpipes in ytong in Sweden

But hey, everyone free to choose the quality of their house in LOS.

[rick75]

Just wondering if anybody has built in Thailand using "besser blocks", these are a concrete block that has a cavity built into them, its just those little red bricks the Thai's use seem pretty ordinary and a lot of work in laying them due to there size, see the link below for pictures.

http://www.brisbaneconcretebesserblocks.co.../blocks150.html

[trogers]

Point to note about cracking. This type of block is hard and brittle and will crack easily if there is excessive deflection of the supporting floor slab.

Walls using this kind of blocks should be placed along a supporting beam, and not across a beam, or cantilever from a beam.

[david96]

We are referring here to the standard cavity concrete block? Size 400mmx 200mmx 200mm

and 400mmx200mm x100mm nominal.

Widely used in Australia, low cost and long lasting.

Concrete slab to be reinforced.

Rebar can be installed at intervals in the outer walls and a concrete bond beam poured in the top layer of blocks.

Before painting blocks are sealed against the weather with an approved sealant.

Services such power can be concealed in the cavity wall, also copper piping for sinks and shower combinations.

Internal walls can be the smaller blocks or use sheet metal framing with plasterboard ( the exception would be in wet areas).

Complies with the Building Code of Australia requirements.

[Naam]

Superblock and C-lite seems to be the best products. Q-con not so good.

That's an interesting statement can you quantify please?

Thanks

the difference in [insulation] quality is caused by the price of one of the commodities used, id est aluminium powder which is used to generate the gaseous pockets when autoclaved. some companies are trying to save on production cost by using less of this commodity. one can easily check how much is used by weighing blocks of the same size. i realised a big difference when adding an additional building for our live-in servants last year (compared to the blocks we used in 2006 building the main house).

interesting is the fact that no thai company produces the same quality of aerated concrete blocks as the companies in Europe producing under the trademark Ytong™. even in 2006 the thai products were about 40% heavier than the equivalent products in Europe.

what i don't understand is "15 years average life time". my house in Germany was built in 1972, outside (30cm) and inside (15cm) Ytong walls, it is still standing and i expect it not to crumble till my next reincarnation.

[katabeachbum]

what i don't understand is "15 years average life time". my house in Germany was built in 1972, outside (30cm) and inside (15cm) Ytong walls, it is still standing and i expect it not to crumble till my next reincarnation.

7,5 cm bathroom blocks being wet most of the time, I said " 15 years max". Often only a year though

Neighbor has superblock walls in slab. sucked water when raining, replaced walls and parquet within a year from moving in.

as said, good wall materials, but avoid wet walls and build them on a base of 2 redbricks on the floor/beam.

and as trogers said, they must be supported by beam

[trogers]

what i don't understand is "15 years average life time". my house in Germany was built in 1972, outside (30cm) and inside (15cm) Ytong walls, it is still standing and i expect it not to crumble till my next reincarnation.

7,5 cm bathroom blocks being wet most of the time, I said " 15 years max". Often only a year though

Neighbor has superblock walls in slab. sucked water when raining, replaced walls and parquet within a year from moving in.

as said, good wall materials, but avoid wet walls and build them on a base of 2 redbricks on the floor/beam.

and as trogers said, they must be supported by beam

Used this in my condo projects. Is okay if inside faces of walls are finished waterproof - tiled from floor to ceiling. I usually raise a 6-inch high cement sand curb around the bathroom, place on a cement-based waterproof layer (brushcrete) on the floor and up onto the vertical and horizontal faces of the curb to create a waterproof tanking system.

The blocks are then built up sitting on the top of the curb.

[cloudhopper]

Superblock and C-lite seems to be the best products. Q-con not so good.

That's an interesting statement can you quantify please?

Thanks

the difference in [insulation] quality is caused by the price of one of the commodities used, id est aluminium powder which is used to generate the gaseous pockets when autoclaved. some companies are trying to save on production cost by using less of this commodity. one can easily check how much is used by weighing blocks of the same size. i realised a big difference when adding an additional building for our live-in servants last year (compared to the blocks we used in 2006 building the main house).

interesting is the fact that no thai company produces the same quality of aerated concrete blocks as the companies in Europe producing under the trademark Ytong™. even in 2006 the thai products were about 40% heavier than the equivalent products in Europe.

what i don't understand is "15 years average life time". my house in Germany was built in 1972, outside (30cm) and inside (15cm) Ytong walls, it is still standing and i expect it not to crumble till my next reincarnation.

Which brand would you recommend using here then? I would be interested in max insulation.