Expat Retiree Cost Of Living--higher And Higher

[somtampet]

I cannot live like a local so many Western items are not luxury but essential!

If you want a very cheap lifestyle it can be done, but surely the quality of life IS important to a retiree?

Please explain. Ok you need water, electricity and air-con, but what else is essential ??

Finally Pattaya is MUCH more expensive than BKK where I lived for 14 years!

I found prices to be very similar, except accommodation less expensive in Pattaya.

Can you give us examples ?

I love thai food phet phet but i dont live like a local ,explain yourself.Bangkok cheaper than Pattaya,what a strange statement

[tb86]

Is it not common sense that costs of living will go up as the years pass. Especialy in thailand where there is a ever growing middle class population. I would like for someone to show me a place that the cost of living has gone down in in the last 20 years, other than war zones...

[somtampet]

The OP complained about 120 baht beers in GoGo bars but in every country there are places that charge tourists ridiculous prices for products and services. Most true expats (not 2 - 4 week visitors) limit the time and money they spend in these clip joints. I still find the Pattaya area inexpensive compared to my home country, Canada. Western food you are going to pay more for because of shipping, import fees and lets face it - it's farang food, often Thai equalivents are very reasonable.

Some realistic comparrisions

-1 hour legit oil massage here 200 baht - my country 1,800 baht

-Western restaurant meal 140 B - my country double that at least

-Thai food here cheap - back home expensive and terrible

-Cheap beer in bar 45 B - my country 120 B

-Ocean view studio condo rental here about 1/3 the price back home.

-Electricity much cheaper here.

-Very few taxes and surcharges here also.

-Traffic fines here 400B - back home 10 times that then an increase on insurance.

Medical proceedures are cheap and fast even in the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital or Bumrungrad compared to western countries. Dental services here are a fraction of the prices in Canada. Gas prices about the same so I drive a motorcycle locally. New motorcycle here about one third of the price back home.

Besides the financial pluses this area is far more fun and you don't freeze off your body parts!

All you say is so true and I agree 100% but you're wasting your time pointing it out on this forum. As the OP demonstrated, 90% of the lurkers and posters here don't live in LOS and when they are here on their annual 2 week holiday, all they care about it the price of beer in a go-go and the price of...

Gerry how dare you make sense lol.You make Thailand sound even better now lol.

[Tolley]

A lot of people who complain are those that retired too early with not enough money.

Sure if you retired 10 years ago on a fixed income of say 60k baht a month you might struggle to live the life you want now.

A young guy retiring now would want to at least gurantee an income of 120k a month indexed for life to enjoy all of Pattaya's delights.

Sure you can live for less etc but more money is always better.

As for places like Australia being cheaper .....that is a laugh....housing in Oz is so over the top that most people spend a huge proportion of their income on rent or mortgage.

Average house price for a crappy home in a crappy suburb in Sydney is 500k AUD. A good place where i live some of the time in Coogee Sydney is about 1. 5 million and rent for a crappy two bedroom unfurnished apt is at least 1600 a month.

As for drinks you get nothing for 120 baht in a Kings Cross club. About 300 baht gets you a beer.

Female entertainment can be reasonable these days in Australia depending on where you go but overall it is no brainer.

For 120k baht a month you can have a pretty good time in Pattaya. In Australia it is barely much more than survival money.

[somtampet]

Is it not common sense that costs of living will go up as the years pass. Especialy in thailand where there is a ever growing middle class population. I would like for someone to show me a place that the cost of living has gone down in in the last 20 years, other than war zones...

When i retired at 50 i put 5% inflation annualy on my budget,seems to have worked reasonably well,no shocks or problems.Very happy not to eat much farang food and live a great life here compared to retiring at 50 in the UK.

[musiclover]

I cannot live like a local so many Western items are not luxury but essential!

If you want a very cheap lifestyle it can be done, but surely the quality of life IS important to a retiree?

Please explain. Ok you need water, electricity and air-con, but what else is essential ??

Food of course, but also peripheral essentials like acceptable quality Internet at an acceptable price.

£20 pm month for a rubbish service is NOT acceptable! Esential? Up to you, but it is for me!

Medical! VERY essential as old age sets in! I believe this is a prime reason fro expats returning home

Medicines I get FREE from in UK are seriously expensive here!

Ive no idea about drink as Im almost teetotaller but a decent bottle of wine at a decent price is impossible here due to a ridiculous import tax.

Car prices are laughable too, although petrol IS cheaper

Finally Pattaya is MUCH more expensive than BKK where I lived for 14 years!

I found prices to be very similar, except accommodation less expensive in Pattaya.

Can you give us examples ?

Food,electrical goods, medical care,furnishings and household goods. Taxis!! Its the Pattaya factor at work here!

[Pattaya46]

Finally Pattaya is MUCH more expensive than BKK where I lived for 14 years!

I found prices to be very similar, except accommodation less expensive in Pattaya. Can you give us examples ?

Food,electrical goods, medical care,furnishings and household goods. Taxis!! Its the Pattaya factor at work here!

Pattaya:

- Food cheaper in Bangkok ?? I saw similar prices in markets, and many expensive restaurants in Bangkok (for expats...)

- Electrical goods ? Again same large shops (Big C, Lotus, Carrefour, Index, ...) and I doubt there is a big (or even any) difference between these shops in Bangkok or Pattaya. (PS: some of them make advertisements brochures valid everywhere : so same price in all shops...)

- Medical care : Never used it so don't know... Would be more expensive in Pattaya hospitals ? Why ? They are mainly for Thai people, not for farang...

- Furnishings and household goods : same as electric goods. Same price, and big Bangkok shops make delivery in Pattaya too

- Taxis : only use baht bus : 10 baht. , but I remember that taxi from airport to bangkok is not especially cheap...

- Accommodation : Condo with view in Bangkok = twice the price of one in Pattaya ...

Food of course, but also peripheral essentials like acceptable quality Internet at an acceptable price.

£20 pm month for a rubbish service is NOT acceptable! Esential? Up to you, but it is for me!

Medical! VERY essential as old age sets in! I believe this is a prime reason fro expats returning home

Medicines I get FREE from in UK are seriously expensive here!

Ive no idea about drink as Im almost teetotaller but a decent bottle of wine at a decent price is impossible here due to a ridiculous import tax.

Car prices are laughable too, although petrol IS cheaper

Thailand:

- Food : You have all what you need in Thai markets and supermarkets, and it's cheap

- Internet : Most people are now happy with 4 or 8 Mbits packages

- Medical : You are a particular case : not every one can have free cares. But it's not a Thailand problem because as I understand it you will have to pay too if you choose another country such as Vietnam or Malaysia ...?

- Wine : Don't know... but in any country you are, buying imported alcohol is always a "luxe"

- Cars : Toyota or other cars made in Thailand are not expensive. Of course, if again you want an imported one... but why would you ?

[musiclover]

I cannot live like a local so many Western items are not luxury but essential!

If you want a very cheap lifestyle it can be done, but surely the quality of life IS important to a retiree?

Please explain. Ok you need water, electricity and air-con, but what else is essential ??

Finally Pattaya is MUCH more expensive than BKK where I lived for 14 years!

I found prices to be very similar, except accommodation less expensive in Pattaya.

Can you give us examples ?

I love thai food phet phet but i dont live like a local ,explain yourself.Bangkok cheaper than Pattaya,what a strange statement

Why is it strange? have you lived in BKK? I did for many years and noticed at once the differential in prices when I came to Pattaya.

So much so that it was cheaper to drve to BKK and buy stuff there than to source it locally.

Even Thai streetfood was noticably cheaper in BKK.

There is defintely a Farang markup in Pattaya. Perhaps only those who have lived permanently in both places notice this!

You notice I make no reference to *entertainment* as this is not relevant to the discussion!

A contentious point? Maybe ...............!

[chiang mai]

For the Brits:

AVERAGE UK household income (after tax) is circa £24,000 per year or £2,000 per month, that's approx. Baht 100,000 per month in Thailand. Using those number, in which country do you think you would have the better standard of living, a rhetorical question.

[Pattaya46]

Why is it strange? have you lived in BKK? I did for many years and noticed at once the differential in prices when I came to Pattaya.

So much so that it was cheaper to drve to BKK and buy stuff there than to source it locally.

Even Thai streetfood was noticably cheaper in BKK.

There is defintely a Farang markup in Pattaya. Perhaps only those who have lived permanently in both places notice this!

You notice I make no reference to *entertainment* as this is not relevant to the discussion!

A contentious point? Maybe ...............!

- 3 years in BKK, 4 in Pattaya ...

- stuff ? Once again you avoid to give concrete example that could be verified...

- a Farang markup in Pattaya : in one area yes, as there is some in BKK, like Sukhumvit low number by instance...

- no reference to *entertainment* : You could have notice I myself made no reference to entertainment, girls or beer...

Pattaya is not Beach Rd only. Go have a look near Sukhumvit or in the Est area

and you will find a completly different city, with nearly rural prices on food and services.

I stop there this useless discussion.

[Naam]

All you say is so true and I agree 100% but you're wasting your time pointing it out on this forum. As the OP demonstrated, 90% of the lurkers and posters here don't live in LOS and when they are here on their annual 2 week holiday, all they care about it the price of beer in a go-go and the price of...

...fish and chips?

[sarahsbloke]

The only reason the cost of living is more expensive is the strong baht

The strong Baht should make the price of imports into Thailand cheaper!

Speaking to an old-timer in ChiangMai, he says a bowl of noodle soup cost 25 bht 10 years ago, today it costs .......... 25bht.

If you don't buy imports everything is very cheap, petrol is 1/2 the price of the UK at the moment.

(someone even said petrol is the same price as back in the UK, why is this sort of thread full of daft people?)

[Naam]

The only reason the cost of living is more expensive is the strong baht

The strong Baht should make the price of imports into Thailand cheaper!

a logic that does not apply to Thailand!

[theoldgit]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

[PhilHarries]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

Steady on there, next you'll be expecting a lack of customers to result in a lowering of prices.

If you don't like the high prices for imported good switch to local stuff. So many people in Thailand are like the 1970s Brits who went to Spain for their holidays and spent the entire time eating fish and chips and drinking Watney's Red Bladder sorry Barrel.

And if you old folk don't like 120 Baht a beer in the gogo's just think you could be "enjoying" a pint at 150 Baht at the local Derby and Joan club, all the hotties there will appreciate you just the same.

[Naam]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

not in Thailand!

[samuibeachcomber]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

Steady on there, next you'll be expecting a lack of customers to result in a lowering of prices.

If you don't like the high prices for imported good switch to local stuff. So many people in Thailand are like the 1970s Brits who went to Spain for their holidays and spent the entire time eating fish and chips and drinking Watney's Red Bladder sorry Barrel.

And if you old folk don't like 120 Baht a beer in the gogo's just think you could be "enjoying" a pint at 150 Baht at the local Derby and Joan club, all the hotties there will appreciate you just the same.

its not difficult to downsize the outgoings.just drop the western imported food from the shopping list,buy fresh at the markets or eat ar local thai cafe's.Drink at home more or at cheaper establishments.If renting,you can find someplace cheaper.the one big expense as i see it is the car.especialy if you really need it to get from A to B,or have a young family.The cost of gasoline keeps going up,and maintaining a car is added cost.The beauty about thailand as in places like Laos and Cambodis is the ability to trim costs is easy.

[chiang mai]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

Steady on there, next you'll be expecting a lack of customers to result in a lowering of prices.

If you don't like the high prices for imported good switch to local stuff. So many people in Thailand are like the 1970s Brits who went to Spain for their holidays and spent the entire time eating fish and chips and drinking Watney's Red Bladder sorry Barrel.

And if you old folk don't like 120 Baht a beer in the gogo's just think you could be "enjoying" a pint at 150 Baht at the local Derby and Joan club, all the hotties there will appreciate you just the same.

How true, personally I can't remember the last time I went to a go go or even the last time I went to a bar to drink alcohol, it makes a big difference on the expenditure each month. As for eating local versus imported food, I think my only concession to foreign food stuffs these days are HP sauce, Twinnings Earl Grey Tea (a huge rip off) and imported low fat cheese, everything else is local produce and very fine quality it is too.

[JSixpack]

Obviously imported food is going to cost you more here than it its country of origin. Isn't that basic commonsense?

I agree, but with the Baht increasing in value against western currencies shouldn't imported foods be showing a small decrease in price, not an increase?

not in Thailand!

Agreed. That is SO true and very annoying. However, seen the same in the USA. The price of imported specialty Brit goods will remain the same even when the dollar strengthens. To take advantage, you have order directly from Britain and pay in pounds; but then shipping will be more expensive and slower. You end up not saving much unless it's something really expensive. Anyway such a strategy won't work well, if at all, in Thailand because of import duties.

[gerry53]

Regarding Naam's comment about fish and chips. Around Crazy Dave's (Soi Chayipoon area) there are a number of restaurants selling this meal for 110 baht or less. Seaside 2 has an airconditioned section, serves theirs with 2 nicely done large pieces of fish with proper chips for 110. Try buying that back home for that price. And yes it is probably local fish but tasty and fresh anyways, if you want Atlantic cod you'll pay tourist prices and it will probably have been frozen.

HP sauce, tea bags etc can always be brought over in bulk on trips home by yourself or friends (we all have some food vices).

Many countries you can't get medical proceedures done quickly due to waiting lists, here I can walk in pay a very reasonable fee and get it done immediately. The quality hospitals here are like hotels, have excellent foreign trained english speaking DRs and extremely efficient. Why would I want to wait months or years for proceedures in my own country - politicians, inmates and famous celebrities would have it done immediately at the taxpayers expense. To save your life or eliminate pain it is worth it to get certain proceedures done here in Thailand.

Edited April 20, 2010 by gerry53

[JMS]

I agree with the OP is some respect as I have lived here for 9 years and I have seen prices rise considerably. I went to the UK last year and found it was cheaper to buy things there than here. For example, Marriott hotel Windsor 2500 Bt a night, Thailand between 4-12K

Sunday carvary 290Bt here a bit more expensive , beers like John Smiths Guiness Cider etc a lot cheaper in the Uk. Supermarket Wine, Champagne beer and general items a lot cheaper in the uk. But taxies, petrol and tax a lot more in the UK.

I have a friend that comes here 4 months every year for the last 10 years and he says it is more expensive to live here but then he includes getting here in that equation.Most countries currencies have fallen against the Baht, some a lot more than others so if you are a long term expat say from the UK of course it is a lot more expensive to live here than before. So I think the choice to stay here is yours

[Ulysses G.]

Picking out a few items that are cheaper in the UK is not really the point. You can easily live on less than half of what it would cost you there if you are willing to buy local brands.

[Tolley]

Long term view is that Thailand is probably going to get more expensive for western expats from most countries as Thailand and the region continue to grow whilst UK Europe and the US are generally on a slow and steady decline.

[NALAK]

i think the op was just giving example of something going from 80 baht to 120 baht in a short time iresspective of where. the price of pork and chicken has gone up significantly, the likes of Tesco, Carrefour have put prices up alot. not suprisingly Tesco reported record profits this week. still Pattaya is way cheaper than samui where i lived for 8 years.

Edited April 21, 2010 by NALAK

[bikerlou47]

The cost of living is going up for sure, especially when you consider the dollar vs the baht.

That is not to say you can not live cheaply here..but if you were here 5 years ago and you are trying to maintain the same standard of living it is costing you much more now!

That is just a simple fact!

[craigt3365]

Long term view is that Thailand is probably going to get more expensive for western expats from most countries as Thailand and the region continue to grow whilst UK Europe and the US are generally on a slow and steady decline.

Totally agree that Thailand will get more expensive for us expats...but don't agree the US is on a steady decline. Read this article...some interesting comments:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/opinion/...nes&emc=a27

Since the US economy is so large, it is hard to grow at rates like in China. But if the US only grows 3-4% a year, that growth alone is more than many countries entire GDP. I wouldn't count the US out just yet....

[musiclover]

Picking out a few items that are cheaper in the UK is not really the point. You can easily live on less than half of what it would cost you there if you are willing to buy local brands.

Im not sure that the OP was just picking out a few Items and which local brands are relevant here?

Surely Most retirees DO use local brands where possible ...... at markets etc.

I strongly dispute that it then possible to live on HALF of UK! Perhaps US?

For a retiree in UK medical and transport is pretty much free, and these are 2 very important items.

Im not sure that tax is a relevant issue here either.

If you live in central Pattaya then the baht bus is cheap, granted,but if you live outside as many do then it is almost essential to drive a car esp if you have a family!.There is no proper public transport.

A Car here is very expensive and I mean a local built one NOT a foreign import. Running expenses are cheaper but initial outlay which must be factored into the total running expenses more than makes up for this.

What about recreation? Reading here IS expensive as there are no good local and FREE libraries and books are not cheap nor are magazines. Local brands rae not relevant here!

Perhaps thes items dont matter much to some!

Internet and acceptable TV is also expensive and of poor quality. I pay £20 pm for a service not much better than dialup and the UK freeview TV stations in UK are in a different league to Cable or True over here.

These are not isolated items but are part of living quality.

The fact is that everyones situation is different, depending on age ( retiree) and country of origin.

A pensioner in UK has more advantages than a non pensioner for sure AND his pension is adjusted whereas a non res here has it fixed for life. Not fair but there it is

Yes you can live cheaper here then UK if you want but at a cost in other ways.

Less than half? No way!!

[gerry53]

Musiclover

Some things like cars are as expensive as back home and some people need them for the reasons you stated. True Satellite TV sucks here and is relatively expensive for the number and quality of channels you receive and their service is poor. Books and magazines are more expensive but there are some good second hand book stores around town and Jomtien. I do most of my reading & research on the internet (news - financials) and it isn't expensive. I supplement that with local papers that are inexpensive.

What I do like is I spend less time in the condo and more time at the beach, pool, gym or just travelling around town. I seldom eat in my condo because food is so inexpensive here. In Canada these things would be expensive and a treat, my 1 plus hour daily massages I just couldn't afford.

If you had a non emergency medical issue you could always travel home for treatment.

I do find it less than half the costs of back home with much more agreeable weather and is definitely more fun. I know in the UK you have taken a real hit on the GBP (as has the Euro) and that is the real reason for things in Thailand being and seeming more expensive. The Canadian & Aussie Dollars have held their own or increased their value over the Thai baht so we don't notice the increases as much. If the GBP went up 20 - 30% as it was in the past you'd probably feel less impact.

[musiclover]

Musiclover

Some things like cars are as expensive as back home and some people need them for the reasons you stated. True Satellite TV sucks here and is relatively expensive for the number and quality of channels you receive and their service is poor. Books and magazines are more expensive but there are some good second hand book stores around town and Jomtien. I do most of my reading & research on the internet (news - financials) and it isn't expensive. I supplement that with local papers that are inexpensive.

What I do like is I spend less time in the condo and more time at the beach, pool, gym or just travelling around town. I seldom eat in my condo because food is so inexpensive here. In Canada these things would be expensive and a treat, my 1 plus hour daily massages I just couldn't afford.

If you had a non emergency medical issue you could always travel home for treatment.

I do find it less than half the costs of back home with much more agreeable weather and is definitely more fun. I know in the UK you have taken a real hit on the GBP (as has the Euro) and that is the real reason for things in Thailand being and seeming more expensive. The Canadian & Aussie Dollars have held their own or increased their value over the Thai baht so we don't notice the increases as much. If the GBP went up 20 - 30% as it was in the past you'd probably feel less impact.

Vey fair reply!

Its true that more outdoor living makes for a much more healthy and pleasant lifestyle. As I write this I am about to go for a swim and that truly IS a lovely experience! Its so hot today

I believe that there is a substantial difference from UK to Canada and of course that is mainly the value of the currency as you so rightly point out.

Re medical issues, which WILL affect all of us in due time, I understand that it is NOT possible for a UK expat just to simply return for free medical treatment if he is non resident. A serious bone of contention for UK expats!!!

As for 2ndhand bookshops, I find the choice and variety very limited. Ima member of the local library but even there the choice is poor! THe free UK library is /was a great institution.

BTW where are the 2nd hand bookchops ih Jomtien area? I dont know them even though I live very close to there.

Clearly there are different circumtances for different people living here!!

[Ulysses G.]

Yes you can live cheaper here then UK if you want but at a cost in other ways.

Less than half? No way!!

Your examples do not compute. You are not making any attempt to fit in where you are and that is your responsibility.

If you insisted in living in the most expensive part of London and driving an expensive car and eating in the best restaurants there would be no comparison at all and you are not going to get free English libraries and health care in a 3rd world country.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Ulysses G.