Uk Visa Refused For Office Working Thai Gf Of +4 Yrs

[leb0wsk1]

Knowledgeable gents;

Just had my gf's UK visa application declined, with no right to appeal.

Visa type: 2 week holiday to visit friends and family.

Her: worked for the same financial advisers here in BKK for the last 4.5 years.

Me: Been living here for last 3.5 years, working in an expat position for a big American company.

Us: Been living together for the past 3.5 years

Application: Literally *everything* and more that was requested on the immigration checklist.

Supporting docs: sponsorship letter from my father and proof of funds and accommodation - 500K from my bank etc...

Reason for refusal: essentially they did not believe we have been co-cohabiting for last 3 years.

Really confused as we supplied *everything* that was requested (and more) in the application checklist, though the reason for refusal letter stated that they didn't have enough documents supporting our relationship, and they thought the gf would not want to return.

This is not a usual bar girl attempt to jump ship - so I'm wondering now how many legit applications are flat out refused, versus organized criminals who know about these loops and how to jump through them.

<deleted>??!?!?!

So my question is: can we appeal this (with all the additional docs they require - which we have), or do we have to begin the whole process again?

BTW: nice little offshore earner for the UK gov this, at 80 pounds a pop.

Cheers,

leb0wsk1

[qutejute]

Get wed and live happy in Thailand I cant think why one would want to live in the UK.

[somtampet]

maybe she has a police record and they do not need to tell you this.

[makescents]

BTW: nice little offshore earner for the UK gov this, at 80 pounds a pop.

Probably costs more than that to process the application.

[somtampet]

BTW: nice little offshore earner for the UK gov this, at 80 pounds a pop.

Probably costs more than that to process the application.

I thought it was 800 gbp after the 2 year settlement visa

[leb0wsk1]

Get wed and live happy in Thailand I cant think why one would want to live in the UK.

Intend to. Just a two week summer trip back home after 3 years without a visit.

[leb0wsk1]

BTW: nice little offshore earner for the UK gov this, at 80 pounds a pop.

Probably costs more than that to process the application.

You think so? I'm not so sure.

Off topic; had my fair share of visa apps myself over the years and costs for UK passport holders are generally 1.5 - 3 times more than that of other countries (incl. US).

[makescents]

BTW: nice little offshore earner for the UK gov this, at 80 pounds a pop.

Probably costs more than that to process the application.

You think so? I'm not so sure.

Off topic; had my fair share of visa apps myself over the years and costs for UK passport holders are generally 1.5 - 3 times more than that of other countries (incl. US).

Last off-topic post and I apologise to the OP for diverting attention.

UK passports have biometrics so they will cost more.

[connel707]

Pay the 20,000 to an agent and get her visa guaranteed... easy way...

[jcbangkok]

Pay the 20,000 to an agent and get her visa guaranteed... easy way...

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[jcbangkok]

At least in the US there is no appeal for a tourist Visa but you can apply as many times as you want. Simply address the two issues they mentioned.

Am curious, how old is she? Has she ever applied for a UK visa before?

[davidxl]

If it was me...

I would apply again rather than appeal.

I would look at each of the points in the refusal letter and think about what extra pieces of substantial evidence (photos, letters, documents, email/IM prints etc...) I could produce to answer them.

eg if she has a job in Thailand, could get her employer to a letter saying that she is a valuable employee and would get her job back with no problem after her holiday.

I would add this evidence to the next application.

Hope this helps.

[Thongkorn]

Pay the 20,000 to an agent and get her visa guaranteed... easy way...

No guarantee, In any Visa application to any were

[7by7]

Pay the 20,000 to an agent and get her visa guaranteed... easy way...

No agent can guarantee a visa.

leb0wsk1,

It is impossible to comment or advise on this refusal without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says (minus names and other identifying info, of course).

If she applied for a general visit visa using form VAF1A, then she cannot appeal.

If she applied for a family visit visa using form VAF1B then she can appeal. However, to apply for a family visit visa she would need family in the UK. Your family would not count unless you were married or had been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last 2 years.

[iainiain101]

Reapply staight away addressing all the points in the refusal letter. Did you include photos of the two of you together with dates and places listed on the back?

Edited April 21, 2010 by iainiain101

[Will27]

Sorry to hear that mate.

Sometimes you just cop a bad decision

and it sounds like you have.

I would reapply with the extra documentation

and I'm sure you will be fine.

Regards

Will

[leb0wsk1]

Thanks for the feedback.

@jcbangkok: yep, easily done - got all the docs readily available, though thinking they should be asking for these if that's what they need - like I said, we fulfilled everything on the checklist they publish. She's 29 and this is the first application.

@davidxl: Agreed, a hasty re-apply it is. Got *everything* together now. This time it's bullet-proof.

@iainiain101: Next week mate. They had the pics on a CD, and in the refusal letter the guy referenced the number of pictures, so they must have taken a look. Each file would have had the date of the picture taken, assuming the assessor had the ability to use a computer (insert cries of "objection!" here).

@will27: Certainly sounds that way - lets hope so eh?

Cheers,

leb0wsk1

[theoldgit]

Demand to talk to british staff in visa section. Challenge their decision. Reapply.

Well which one, she cannot demand to talk to anybody in visa section, the application was for a tourist visa which has no right of appeal. You are of course correct in suggesting the applicant re-applies, but ensuring that the reasons in the refusal are properly addressed.

Many times the western embassies will flatly deny the first time visa seeker, then wait to see whether they reapply.

Utter rubbish, where did you get that fact from?

There are several thais that just want to move out of the country, not really caring as to where. So they'd just apply once.

"There are several thais that just want to move out of the country", again where did you pick up that little gem? several?

If someone is serious, they believe, that person will come back and apply again. Only then they take applicant seriously.

Again, utter rubbish.

OP, you will get a lot of helpful advice on this forum, then you will get posts like this, I'm afraid you will need to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

[theoldgit]

1. Him not her. When you get rejected like that for no reason, you don't just take it as a no. You go back and present your case, asking to talk to actual british consular staff, not some thai front-desk people who think they are gods for landing their job on deciding what they'll pass on and what they won't.

I said her because the OP spoke about his girlfriend, so she is the applicant and it is her who would want the decision overturned if there was a right of appeal. If she thought the wrong decision had been made on the evidence given in the application then of course she should try and speak to the Entry Clearance Manager and ask them to look at the case again but, trust me, there is no point in demanding to speak to a consular official. The Thai people at the desk, and by those I presume you mean in the application centre, are no more than messengers, they do no more than put all the papers provided into an envelope and pass it onto visa section at the embassy, they certainly do not decide what they will pass on and what they will not.

2. I got that from a friend that works inside British embassy. US and Australian embassies apparently do the same when they are not sure. Reapplying person is taken into more consideration if a case by the sponsor is made. Another point which I forgot to mention before - not only should he submit the letter from his father but also his own "invitation" letter, explaining what the trip is about. That is requirement from other EU embassies that I deal with quite frequently.

Clearly I don't know your friend in the British embassy but I maintain that they, or any other embassy, don't routinely refuse all first time applicants, if the application is sound with the applicant able to prove that the trip is affordable and genuine and on the balance of probabilities they will return to their home country, then entry clearance will be given, be it the 1st or 50th application.

The number of Thai people applying for visas to western countries, when there is an obvious intent of not returning to Thailand once visa is over is enormous. Hope this fits better than "several"

If this is the case, and as I don't have the benefit of the information provided by your friend working inside the embassy I really don't know, then this is why so many applications fail, and genuine applicants seemingly have such a hard time.

3. Maybe. I guess embassy staff are full of crap then.

I doubt it very much.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Fax them and ask them to review the decision.

[huma79]

TomazBodner is right from what I've seen happen. The Uk embassy will often reject a good application the first time, and then accept the same application the second time assuming the evidence is solid both times. A friend of mine claims this is to milk you of application fees, but I doubt it. More likely it's to see how serious the applicant is.

[khunjake]

The number of Thai people applying for visas to western countries, when there is an obvious intent of not returning to Thailand once visa is over is enormous.

Was your GF able to show any significant ties back to Thailand other then her job? If not, then this gives the consular officer the thumbs up to deny the application based solely to her risk of not returning to Thailand.

[theoldgit]

I really wish people would stop making nonsensical posts, people come on this site for some advice and they are subject to scaremongering.

It's really quite simple, a person makes an application for a visa and if they are able to convince an ECO that the proposed trip is reasonable, affordable and on the balance of probabilities the applicant will return to their home country at the conclusion of the trip then a visa will be issued, if not then a visa will be declined.

ECO's are only human and of course they can make mistakes that's why there are procedures built in to check their work. Decisions can be reviewed by an ECM, some refusals have the right of of appeal, and the visa section is subject to scrutiny by the UKBA Independent Monitor, who when carrying out an inspection will examine a selection of applications.

Let's make it clear, there are no systems in place to deny first time applicants to see how serious they are, there are no procedures to deny applications to increase revenue. ECO's work to standard guidlines to ensure that immigration laws as defined in the various Immigration Acts are vigerously and fairly applied.

Can I respectfully request that posters stick to the facts and not relay what a mate might have told you in a bar somewhere, and lets continue to offer people some support on this forum.

[7by7]

Many times the western embassies will flatly deny the first time visa seeker, then wait to see whether they reapply.

TomazBodner is right from what I've seen happen. The Uk embassy will often reject a good application the first time

I can't comment on other embassies, but as far as the UK is concerned this is complete and utter rubbish.

I know personally several visit visa applicants who were successful first time, including my step-son and sister-in-law. Through forums such as this I know of thousands more.

From what I have read on forums such as this and discovered from other sources, the most common reason for refusal is not that the ECO made an error; not that the ECO was vindictive or refused on a whim; not even that the applicant didn't meet the criteria. The most common reason for refusal seems to be that although the applicant did meet the criteria; they failed to show that they did!

As the OP has not posted what the refusal notice says in this case, any conjecture on the reasons for this refusal is just that; conjecture with no basis in fact.

[Arkady]

At least in the US there is no appeal for a tourist Visa but you can apply as many times as you want. Simply address the two issues they mentioned.

Am curious, how old is she? Has she ever applied for a UK visa before?

This is also correct for UK visas. You can apply again as many times as you like. Add the information they said was missing, or they will just reject again on the grounds that circumstances have not changed and no significant information was submitted to justify a change of their stance.

Sounds like she should qualify but there was something wrong in the way you presented the case and/or the evidence. My wife got a UK tourist visa as a student before we were married when we had only known each other for a few months but we stated the facts as they stood and there was no problem.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Arkady

[david96]

The reason was given in post #1.

Failed to prove a defacto relationship (cohabitate as man and wife) over a three year period.

And as this was for a visitors visa there was no right of appeal.

So to solve the problem apply again this time with proof of relationship, making sure the applicant meets the criteria for the visa applied for. With proof that she will return.

You may be luckier next time.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

As I have stated already on here it is OK people pasting the Immigration rules, but this does not guarantee you a visa because some of the ECO at the Embassy are not competent to process a straight forward application.

Everyones experiences of applying for a visa is different and each application is judged on its own merits but when you deal with applications daily things are not always as they should be.

[7by7]

The reason was given in post #1.

Failed to prove a defacto relationship (cohabitate as man and wife) over a three year period.

The OP does say "Reason for refusal: essentially they did not believe we have been co-cohabiting for last 3 years." But as I said earlier, in order to comment on this refusal and advise on what to do next we need to know exactly what the refusal notice says. In other words, why does the ECO not believe the relationship. This will be explained further in the refusal notice.

There is no point in applying again unless each and every point of the refusal is adequately addressed; otherwise she will simply be refused again for the same reasons.

As I have stated already on here it is OK people pasting the Immigration rules, but this does not guarantee you a visa because some of the ECO at the Embassy are not competent to process a straight forward application........when you deal with applications daily things are not always as they should be.

I am not saying that ECOs are incapable of making a mistake; that would be a ridiculous statement. But to accuse some of them of regular, basic incompetence is is a very serious allegation. Have you passed your concerns onto the UKBA or the Independent Monitor? What did they say?

If you suspect that a refusal is incorrect in law you have presumably advised your clients to appeal, if appropriate, or at the very least contacted the ECM to request a review of the decision. What happened?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Mistakes happen often such as refusing an EU Family permit when as per the Metock case the applicant and the sponsor have little to prove other than that they have met and they meet the rules.

UK/Vac refusing to take a Fiance/proposed civil partnership application under paragraph 290 of the Immigration rules, after travelling 12 km across Bangkok to show them the rules they accepted this and then duly charged me 300 baht for the pleasure of printing the application form they had defaced.

Various complaints have been raised and we are awaiting a reply.

[Tee2008]

Mistakes happen often such as refusing an EU Family permit when as per the Metock case the applicant and the sponsor have little to prove other than that they have met and they meet the rules.

UK/Vac refusing to take a Fiance/proposed civil partnership application under paragraph 290 of the Immigration rules, after travelling 12 km across Bangkok to show them the rules they accepted this and then duly charged me 300 baht for the pleasure of printing the application form they had defaced.

Various complaints have been raised and we are awaiting a reply.

You don't appear to have answered the questions in the earlier post. Have you passed your concerns on to the appropriate authorities, and, if so, what was the response to your allegations of incompetence ?

Further, what exactly does " but when you deal with applications daily things are not always as they should be" mean ?

With respect, if this is the standard of advice your company gives, then I would not be happy to use you.