Developing Thai Learning Tool -- Feedback?

[cdnmatt]

Hey guys,

Been learning Thai on and off for the past ~9 months, and am a little disappointed in my progress. Main reason is because I don't put the hours in, but also I don't feel as though I have the right tools. The books I have are great, and resources such as thai-language.com are excellent. I especially like the online dictionary, and mouse overs of the words. However, I haven't found much that's very user-interactive, so in my typical family fashion (we're all like this), I've decided to develop my own tool / system.

I've been a software developer for the past decade, and am great at what I do, so no worries about the quality. I should also mention, this will be made free to the public. I'm developing it for myself regardless, so might as well help others out while I'm at it. I'm basically just looking for some feedback as to the specs, with hopes you guys have some ideas for tools. Here's what I have so far.

OVERVIEW

Online system, where you register for a free account, and login anytime you please. Everything is customized specifically for you, depending on what you know, and what you're struggling with. For example, you can check off certain words & phrases you're struggling to remember, and have them in a separate list.

VOCABULARY LISTS

Loads of categorized vocabulary lists will be available, and contain various words, phrases, sentences, etc. I'll add in a bunch of lists myself, but you'll be able to create your own vocab lists, and if wanted, make them public as well so others can use them. My hope is to have a decent community that contributes, and end up with thousands of vocab lists. Each vocab entry will have three (maybe 4) parts; Thai script, English word, English transliteration, and maybe an audio clip if some generous soul is willing to devote their time.

While viewing a vocab list, you can either view it in order, or randomize it. Not sure about you guys, but I know with my written vocab lists, sometimes I'll remember the words based on their position on the page, instead of the actual word, help randomization will help. You'll also be able to specify which of the 3 parts to display. For the parts that aren't displayed, a quick Javascript link will be available, which will instantly show the result. For example, if you want to practice vocabulary, you display only Thai script, and click on the link to display the English word as you go through the list. If you want to practice writing, view English only, write the words as you, and click on the link to display the Thai script to see if you're right.

You can also combine vocab lists at one time. Another problem I have is with my written vocab lists is, I know which words are in each vocab list. If I see or hear a word three days later, there's a chance I won't remember it, but if I'm going through vocab list #8 for example, I'll remember it. So with this, you can do say 5 vocab lists at once, or have the system pick 50 random words from 10 vocab lists, etc. Then of course, they'll be links to select if you were right or wrong, to give you a score.

"FORGETFUL LISTS"

That name will probably change, but you can create your own various "forgetful lists". While going through the vocab lists, if there's a word you simply can't seem to remember, you can click a quick link and it'll get added to one of these lists. Then of course, you can go back and view these lists anytime. The opposite is also possible, where you can click a link saying you 100% know the word, and it'll never appear in the general vocab list again for you.

TONE TEST

To know understandable Thai, you have to master the tones. You need to be able to read Thai script as quickly as English, while knowing which tone to use for each syllable. So same as vocab lists, it'll go through the selected words / phrases / sentences, and the software will automatically break the Thai words into syllables. Under each syllable will be a small textbox where you enter the tone (L, M, H, R, F), which will immediately say if you're correct or not.

TRANSLATION HELP

Not sure about this, as it depends on any semblance of a community we get going. Anyway, a place where people can enter an English phase, plus their translated version in Thai. Then generous souls can login, and correct they're translation as needed. Then while correcting it, add it to the public vocab lists as well.

That's actually all I have right now. I'm just looking to develop something that's a little more user-interactive, that we can customization for ourselves, and will supplement the existing tools out there (books, thai-language.com, etc.). If you guys have any other ideas or tools you'd like to see though, please let me know. Again, I'm going to be developing this for myself regardless, so might as well make it public if I'm going to put the hours in.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Edited April 21, 2010 by cdnmatt

[Parvis]

My feedbck is simple - AUDIOCLIP VERRRRRY IMPORTANT

[mikenyork]

1. Be very patient with yourself in learning this language. The US Military, which is not known for spending more on training than absolutely necessary, allocates 12 months, 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for Thai learners. This is like 4 times the amount of time given for learning a Romance language.

2. The very best, and most interactive language software I ever saw was something called "Who was Oscar Lake?" (for Spanish, not Thai). You can see more at www.worldlanguage.com/.../Who-is-Oscar-Lake-Spanish-for-Windows-Mac-hybrid-Kids-30875.htm - . The best part of this program was that you were the detective solving a case. It was interactive--so much so that the path you took through the case varied depending on how you answered questions and where you decided to go to gather info. If you are really gung-ho, take a look and see what you think.

[SoloFlyer]

where do i sign up? would be awesome if you can get the tonal stuff right for learnig the script.

[tonyPhuket]

My feedbck is simple - AUDIOCLIP VERRRRRY IMPORTANT

Hi,

Which language do you use? VB NET? ASPX?

Tony

[HappyInCM]

"To know understandable Thai, you have to master the tones. You need to be able to read Thai script as quickly as English, while knowing which tone to use for each syllable"

Like English readers, I don't believe Thai readers decipher the pronunciation for each word on the fly - rather, they recognize the word and therefore know exactly how it sounds. Although I'm not a strong thai reader, any words I already know, I know the correct tone without having to think of what consonant class the word belongs to, the length of the vowel, the final consonant and the tone mark.

It's still important to be able to know the tone when you see a word, but thinking you can decipher the tone while reading the word at full speed would be like trying to read a page full of English words you don't know aloud at normal speaking speed.

The idea of an open/free software for learning Thai would be great. I'm wondering what you've looked at thus far? SRS systems like Anki and flashcard exchange I guess? To me, having some way of making things work on the android or the iphone and other such things would be very handy too. Thai language has something like you say for determining the tone of a one syllable word.

I really like Byki's deluxe product too because it has something that somewhat helps with pronunciation to check your tone and such. Of course, nothing can replace a native speaker (yet ).

[HappyInCM]

My feedbck is simple - AUDIOCLIP VERRRRRY IMPORTANT

Yes, maybe make it very, very easy to submit a clip and then could have other people vote on its quality; this way if someone had a native thai with them, they could just click on a link to record audio for missing things and thereby help the community.

[daveh]

I've been married to a Thai in the US for many years, and still don't speak much Thai. I really would like to learn it as well and had the same thoughts as you that I could perhaps make an Android application for it. Initially, I was just thinking of writing a flashcard type application that contained the letters, with an option to animate them so you see how to write them. I would also have audio with several people, male and female from various parts of Thailand speaking it. As for vocabulary, I would have similar flashcards for words as well as text and audio of the words used in context.

Online, one can maintain his own set of flashcards, accessible via his smartphone, as well as shared flashcards/dictionaries.

I haven't the slightest idea how the application could grade your pronunciation. However, it could simply record it then let you listen to it next to a native speaking it.

But honestly, for the same reason I've not learned Thai, I probably will not write the app.....no time.

[Parvis]

You have a big project ahead.

Much of what you are proposing may already be on-line in some form. As mentioned - Audio clip - verrrry important - to be able to imitate pronounciation.

As "ElJefe2" mentioned this overall emphasis on - tones - tone rules etc. etc. etc. may be overdone. Even illiterate Thais know how to pronounce Thai correctly.

As he said - when I know a word - I know how to pronounce it correctly - or nearly so. It just takes patience and practice - practice - practice

I suggest you check out the following material already free on line:

1) ThailanguageWiki dot com

2) Thai-language dot com

โชคดี

Edited May 5, 2011 by Parvis

[desi]

The very best, and most interactive language software I ever saw was something called "Who was Oscar Lake?" (for Spanish, not Thai). You can see more at www.worldlanguage.com/.../Who-is-Oscar-Lake-Spanish-for-Windows-Mac-hybrid-Kids-30875.htm - . The best part of this program was that you were the detective solving a case. It was interactive--so much so that the path you took through the case varied depending on how you answered questions and where you decided to go to gather info. If you are really gung-ho, take a look and see what you think.

Pity it's so old - System 7 for Mac? (edit: just saw patches for 8-9) ... but this is not the first time someone has mentioned "Who was Oscar Lake?" so I'm betting it's great.

I really like Byki's deluxe product too because it has something that somewhat helps with pronunciation to check your tone and such.

I second Byki Deluxe. From what I'm seeing, nothing else comes close enough. And now they have it for the iPhone too. On the iPad it'd rock!

Edited May 5, 2011 by desi

[keo]

Desi - what does Byki deluxe have over ProVoc? I've been using ProVoc for a while, and think it's excellent. Just curious what your opinion is. Thanks.

What about the Becker iphone app - any good?

To the OP - go for it, I've thought about trying it myself, but kind of concluded that it's not worth the effort, and that my time would be better spent studying Thai, with existing materials.

As has been said - 9 months is not a long time. When you plant a tree, the roots have to get established first. Be patient.

[desi]

Desi - what does Byki deluxe have over ProVoc? I've been using ProVoc for a while, and think it's excellent. Just curious what your opinion is. Thanks.What about the Becker iphone app - any good?

I haven't used ProVoc extensively but it's basically a simple SRS, correct? While BYKI has that, games, and more. There's a short review here: BYKI

I don't use the files that come with it (there's a few mistakes). I use my own materials. The downside is that like with any SRS it takes work setting everything up (cutting up sound files, coding it in, etc). So I use it for a bit and then wander away.

Both of Beckers iPhone apps are great (imo). The app version of Thai For Beginners is quite good - it's perfect for those ten minute study moments. I'm looking forward to the advanced versions.

Edited May 6, 2011 by desi

[cdnmatt]

To the OP - go for it, I've thought about trying it myself, but kind of concluded that it's not worth the effort, and that my time would be better spent studying Thai, with existing materials.

Whew, talk about an old thread that got bumped.

I actually already had everything done for the most part, and it was great! I had the entire Avatar movie split into 5 - 10 minute video clips. Movie was in Thai, with Thai subtitles at the bottom, and English subtitles at the top. On top of that, I had the nice online system with different chapters / volumes for each video clip of new words, plus basically all the phrases in the video clip. Could randomize them, combine them, only view aspects I wanted, instantly verify my writing, had a couple lists for words I 100% words, and words I keep forgettting, etc. It worked great. That system helped with all aspects of learning Thai -- comprehension, reading, writing, speaking.

Unfortunately, had some major data losses a couple months ago, so all of that is gone now. Should actually get going on that again, because it worked great for me.

Edited May 8, 2011 by cdnmatt

[desi]

The very best, and most interactive language software I ever saw was something called "Who was Oscar Lake?" (for Spanish, not Thai). You can see more at www.worldlanguage.com/.../Who-is-Oscar-Lake-Spanish-for-Windows-Mac-hybrid-Kids-30875.htm - . The best part of this program was that you were the detective solving a case. It was interactive--so much so that the path you took through the case varied depending on how you answered questions and where you decided to go to gather info. If you are really gung-ho, take a look and see what you think.

Curious, I contacted the company about their product. The person responding said it's fine so I ordered Italian for the Mac. It just arrived and it's working fine.