Getting Car Ins For Tw On A Settlement Visa In Uk

[newstart07]

Hi all, not sure if its the right forum, but im sure someone will move it if its not!

My TW has been with me 2 years almost in the UK and we have just applied for her ILR. I'm trying to get her a car and insure it but cant find any insurance companies that will insure her? Any one out there know of any? She has a full international d/l she got from Bangkok before she left

thanks in advance

newstart

[theoldgit]

I could be wrong but I would have thought it would have little to do with her immigration status and more about her lack of UK driving experience and the fact it does not seem that she has a UK licence, in the same way a UK youngster might have a problem getting insurance, or maybe the underwriters have had experience driving on Thai roads.

I think she really needs to get a UK licence first and then spend a while as a named driver on your car before you think about trying to get insurance for her in her own right. Others of course may have other views.

[newstart07]

Hi, thanks for reply, yeah it is as a named driver on my policy. I've tried a few now and most accomodate an international licence, but when i say from Thailand, thats when they say NO!! Just wondered if anyone else in the similiar situation had done any better?

Thanks again!

[srisatch]

Very difficult, I know!. She can drive on her Thai licence for 1 year..after that she needs a UK licence or one that can be exchanged for a UK one. I had this problem...only company to come up with something was Swinton.

[newstart07]

thanks ill try swinton, but every one ive tried at the moment wont even consider a thai international licence spent about 3 hours on all the comparison websites in UK, but they all end up saying pls ring because of international licence and when i do they say no way for a thai one

[sumrit]

thanks ill try swinton, but every one ive tried at the moment wont even consider a thai international licence spent about 3 hours on all the comparison websites in UK, but they all end up saying pls ring because of international licence and when i do they say no way for a thai one

I've had the same problem. Can't find an insurance company to accept my wife without a UK licence. They'll accept her with a UK provisional licence though. I wonder if she could be insured that way then drive on her Thai/International licence?

But if your wife has been in the UK for nearly two years she can't drive in the UK on her Thai/International licence anyway. They are only valid in the UK for one year, after that she must take a UK driving test.

I've always thought this was a stupid law anyway. Anybody, from anywhere in the world (and most normally drive on the 'wrong' side as well) can come to the UK and, without any experience of UK driving, are automatically accepted as good enough drivers to drive in the UK using there own countries/international licence. After one years driving experience in the UK though (which is a lot more than most people need to pass their test) they are then told they are NOT good enough drivers any more and must pass a UK test before they can continue driving.

Does that mean that after a year's experience driving in the UK people are a worse driver?

Should we all have to retake our test every year as well to prove the year's experience hasn't ruined our driving ability?

Edited April 23, 2010 by sumrit

[7by7]

That residents with a foreign (non EU) licence can drive for up to one year after taking up residence in the UK is a concession to allow them time to take and pass the UK driving test. It is the same concession that allows foreign licence holders to drive whilst in the UK as a visitor.

If at the end of the year a resident has not passed a UK test and obtained a full UK licence than they are driving illegally. This could result in a large fine and if they had an accident they could well find that any insurance was invalid. If you told the insurance company that she was still driving in the UK without a UK licence after nearly 2 years, this is probably why they wont insure her. Not telling them means that you would have witheld a material fact, and any policy obtained thus would not be valid.

Holding an international driving permit does not change this; in fact an IDP does not confer any extra rights or privileges that a Thai licence doesn't already give.

Newstart, your wife is currently breaking the law, and could be subject to a fine of (if memory serves) £5000 if stopped by the police or otherwise has to show her documents, e.g. following an accident.

She should stop driving; obtain a UK provisional (when she will be able to drive subject to the usual restrictions) and pass a UK theory and practical tests to obtain a full UK licence in order to legally drive unaccompanied in the UK.

[newstart07]

7by7 - She ISNT breaking the law as she hasnt got a car or insurance, my OP said 'trying to get her a car and insure it'

What I was trying to get in response was if anyone else had their TW's insured and driving in the UK, I have found out over the last few days that insurance companies that DO say they will cover an international license WONT cover when they find out she is from Thailand, or bump the premium up about £2k for group 1 car!!! Its just discrimination in my book, when people from the EU who are used to driving on the other side of the road can freely drive in the UK until they are 70!! (ive just been reading the DVLA website)

so what does everyone else do guys???

Thanks again for your replies...

[happylarry]

Have you not been to Thailand and seen the driving test. They dont even have to take a car out on the road. Apart from that some dont even bother taking a test, just pay money under the counter to get a licence.

Are you really surprised that British insurers wont cover Thai's without having proved their driving ability by taking a UK test.

Insurance underwriters arent fools....they know all the facts and are the most astute business people.

I would like to ask why you havent simply put her through the UK driving test in the two years....or dont you think she will pass it?????????

HL

[newstart07]

Of course you can ask! Well 1stly its because she didnt need a car when she came to the UK, but now we have moved into a rural location, with no bus stops or footpaths near, so we only really started thinking about a car since then! Also while i agree with you in respect of the majority, not everyone should be thrown into the same boat as underwriters with computers for answers and not facts...my wife was a teacher in Thailand 15 yrs driving experience fully insured at all times, no accidents, convictions or even 1 single scrape, and she always bought a brand new car every 3yrs!

So instead of just trying to flame the post...i will ask again!! Im only looking for peoples experiences with THEIR own TW's driving in the UK and any insurance companies that will insure her until she passes her test!

Thanks in advance

newstart

[paully]

My TW has been with me 2 years almost in the UK and we have just applied for her ILR

The reason why they won't insure her is, as others have said, because she should have a UK driving licence by now not the international one issued in Thailand. Get her a UK provisional licence and she can drive and be insured. A Thai friend of the wife's, married and living in Britain, has just got her full UK licence - insurance no problem despite still being a Thai citizen.

Edited April 23, 2010 by paully

[newstart07]

Thx Paully, yeah i realise that now, however 2 of the insurance companies i have rung just said, they will put down she has just come to the UK, so she can have a full year on her international license, but they both wanted over £2k to insure her on a group 1 car

I'm thinking of one of these fast track driving test courses for her now to speed things up...

thanks

[happylarry]

newstarter, I was not trying to flame your post, (and am sorry you saw it like that) I was just trying to explain why you are having the problem.

Unfortunately the only facts that the underwriters are privy too are from their computers.......you dont expect them to believe what people put down on their forms do you?

As for your wifes driving history, I am sure it is true and she is perfect but as the underwriters are going to look at it, is that in Thailand very few people have convictions or accident history because they can simply pay the tea money and buy their way out of it. These are the facts , and whether or not you want to listen to the facts, they will look at them and say no.

However I do wish you luck and as you say the best thing is to get her a licence soon as.

Good luck.

HL

[bobrussell]

I am insured with NFU - they have accepted my wife on the international drivers licence without penalty or further questions. I nearly died of shock when the letter came. She will have to get a UK licence in October.

May be worth a try but I was with them for a year before asking.

[paully]

She will have to get a UK licence in October.

That's just the point, bob, in your wife's case the international licence was still valid; in newstart's case, his wife isn't legally able to use the international licence, she needs to obtain a UK one before she can drive here given the time she's already been in the country. Being Thai, in itself, isn't the problem: I've been able to add a Thai friend to my insurance (Direct Line) twice now without problem when he's been over here to visit his wife (who's studying here) for a few weeks at a time and wanted to borrow our car.

[7by7]

7by7 - She ISNT breaking the law as she hasnt got a car or insurance, my OP said 'trying to get her a car and insure it'

I'm sorry to have upset you, but the impression I got from your OP was that she was currently driving (and I'd be surprised if I was the only one), otherwise why go to the bother of getting an IDP?

You seem to be putting the cart before the horse; before buying her a car and trying to get insurance you should first get her a UK licence so she can legally drive once you do get her a car.

BTW, the reason why people who hold a licence issued by an EU state can drive in any other EU state is because the driving test is fairly standardised throughout the EU.

however 2 of the insurance companies i have rung just said, they will put down she has just come to the UK, so she can have a full year on her international license,

Two insurance companies have said that they will lie for her!? Sounds very dodgy to me! Obviously her passport and visa will show that she has not just come to the UK. She will not get a full year on her IDP. She has already been in the UK for over 12 months and so if she drives without a UK licence, and according to the conditions of that licence, then she will be breaking the law; regardless of any lies an insurance company may tell on her behalf.

She will have to get a UK licence in October.

With respect, she should get a UK licence now; or come October, assuming that's when her year is up, she'll have to stop driving until she does get one.

If she gets a UK provisional licence now she can still drive unaccompanied on her Thai one until October, by which time she will hopefully have passed her UK tests and will be able to carry on driving unaccompanied.

[newstart07]

'If she gets a UK provisional licence now she can still drive unaccompanied on her Thai one until October, by which time she will hopefully have passed her UK tests and will be able to carry on driving unaccompanied.'

Thx 7, thats answered my next Q! Thats the answer for now..and im already looking into a fast track driving licence for her.

HL- thx no probs, im just frustrated with doing everything properly and getting shafted in the UK, when there's so many immigrants in the country that seem to get away with everything or even given everything by the goverment! (relax and count to 10!)

NFU sounds good, but I dont think I could get insured with them?

And just for the record I've been driving her everywhere for 2 yrs and im tired lol

thx for your help guys...

newstart

[7by7]

'If she gets a UK provisional licence now she can still drive unaccompanied on her Thai one until October, by which time she will hopefully have passed her UK tests and will be able to carry on driving unaccompanied.'

Thx 7, thats answered my next Q! Thats the answer for now..and im already looking into a fast track driving licence for her.

The part of my post you have quoted applies to bobrussel's wife, who has not yet been resident in the UK for 12 months. Your wife cannot legally drive in the UK until she has a UK licence because she has been resident for more than 12 months. The 12 month period starts when one enters the UK, not when one starts to drive.

when there's so many immigrants in the country that seem to get away with everything or even given everything by the goverment

All immigrants to the UK are subject to the same immigration rules, regulations and requirements as your wife.

Except those entering under EU/EEA regulations, not the UK immigration rules. Remember, though, that you would have the same rights were you to move to another EU/EEA state.

[newstart07]

yeah thx 7 realised that too now so it seems she wasted her money to get a international D/L in BKK last Sept when she went

Yeah Im talking about EU immigrants, this is why this country sucks....

ive never had a penny of this goverment in 43 yrs..

she works in a hotel with lots of EU immigrants..

they are on minimum wage but live in the hotel, so they have no council tax, no utility bills, no mortgage to pay all there food paid for (in the hotel) and all for just £30 per week deducted from their wages.. now here's the frustrating thing..they are claiming tax credits from the goverment and ALSO getting between £100-£150 per month as well!!!! now this actually makes them have more spare money after their outgoings more than the average joe bloggs who is working properly for a living and paying his way!!

I couldnt believe it, so i went on the working tax credits website and filled out the forms as a guy from poland working in a hotel....i was instantly awarded £127.87 per month extra!!! its all beyond my comprehension

they are all having babies and claiming more money too as well, also trying to brainwash my wife to have lots of babies as well so she can claims lots of money too

just makes me soooo mad :D

anyway thats my rant for the day done with!

[7by7]

yeah thx 7 realised that too now so it seems she wasted her money to get a international D/L in BKK last Sept when she went

Even if she had not been resident for 12 months yet, the IDP would, IMHO, still have been a waste of money as her Thai licence would have sufficed!

The UK allows foreign licence holders to drive in the UK for up to 12 months using their home country licence, there is no legal requirement to also have an IDP. Although one may wish to do so as it does effectively provide a translation of the actual licence should one require it.

For visitors, the 12 months starts on their last date of entry; for residents it starts on their first date of entry as a resident.

Don't want to wander too far off topic; but the employment conditions and tax credit/child benefit situation you describe would apply equally to any British citizens working in that hotel. Also, were you to live and work in another EU/EEA state then you would be entitled to claim any and all state benefits that a citizen of that state can.

[torrenova]

There is at least one comparison site, I do not remember which one but it is one of the popular ones, which actually asks whether the licence you have is international and if so whether it is convertible or not. I entered non convertible and it came through with a quote which was not loaded.

[Lancashirelad]

Seems to hinge on whether or not she is yet deemed to be resident:

Residents

If you are the holder of an ordinary driving licence (car, moped, motorcycle entitlement) and provided your licence remains valid, you can drive any category of small vehicle shown on your licence for up to 12 months from the time you became resident. To ensure continuous driving entitlement a provisional GB licence must have been obtained and a driving test(s) passed before the 12-month period elapses. If you obtain a provisional licence during this period, you are not subject to provisional licence conditions eg displaying 'L' plates or being supervised by a qualified driver or being precluded from motorways.

However, if you do not pass a test within the 12-month concessionary period you will not be allowed to drive as a full licence holder and provisional licence conditions will apply. If you do not apply for a provisional licence within the first 12 months you must stop driving and obtain a British provisional licence with a view to passing a driving test. Provisional licence conditions will then apply.

taken from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...ence/DG_4022561

If not yet resident, she's ok on the IDP until it expires 12 months from date of issue. Suggest asking hire car co's who they use for insurance.

I wouldn't recommend an intensive course (concentration levels drop after a while). I would recommend using an instructor who is used to doing foreign licence exchange (or returning expat) courses. Not that i am, but could do it myself if you were located near me. (time permitting).

Steer well clear of schools advertising such as "First 5 lessons £59." Look for independant instructors who charge somewhat more than average. Yes, really, think about how & why they are able to do that & be busy.

Although being an ex AA instructor is certainly nothing to shout about, this write up on the subject seems quite accurate:

http://www.ukadi.co.uk/2010/04/foreign-lic...essons-how.html

Basically, we have to undo most of what has been previously learnt & practised for the past x years. Then start again from scratch with the British way of driving & rules.

Good luck & happy, safe motoring to both of you.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Lancashirelad

[steve187]

quote lancashirelad - Seems to hinge on whether or not she is yet deemed to be resident:

I looked at the word resident , when does a Thai entering the UK on a 27 month visa become resident, I think it would be a matter for the courts to decide, after a not guilty plea.

A friend was caught in the same circumstances as the first poster suggested, ie an international driving license but after an ILR was issued, and was convicted in court of driving without a license, but the charge of no insurance was dropped due to the fact she ' had held a license to drive' and insurance was in force, a letter from the insurance company was produced in court.

[JAS21]

quote lancashirelad - Seems to hinge on whether or not she is yet deemed to be resident:

I looked at the word resident , when does a Thai entering the UK on a 27 month visa become resident, I think it would be a matter for the courts to decide, after a not guilty plea.

My wife came to live in the UK in 2003, my understanding, as previous posts, was that she could drive on her Thai licence for one year and as such could get insured as a named driver on my car, however I didn't think the car was suitable so didn’t let her drive it and eventually changed it, I got another automatic by the way and out of interest was insured with SAGA.

Now I considered her a good driver in Thailand, which is rare, but the first problem was roundabouts..not many over here! And the Thai smile does not get you anywhere when you drive down the side of a queue and then try to cut in! I did have to point out that in england you normally only use one side of the road

The highway code, she spent 6-weeks solid learning it, it's not easy as is full of negatives which is not easy for Thais. I got her driving lessons with a lady who admitted her driving was ok, she had been driving nearly thirty years, but needed some changes in order to pass the test. So around and around the test routes.

The hazard perception is something, we got the practice discs, even I kept failing until we worked out what they wanted. She passed all first time, the practical the day before the year ran out.

There were a couple of other Thais in the village…all having driven on their Thai licences for years..until I pointed out the problem to their husbands…I was Mr unpopular for a few weeks. Hope that our experience is some assistance to you.

Here in Thailand, where we now live I just had to say which colour was red, green, or amber and press a pretend brake.

[7by7]

quote lancashirelad - Seems to hinge on whether or not she is yet deemed to be resident:

I looked at the word resident , when does a Thai entering the UK on a 27 month visa become resident, I think it would be a matter for the courts to decide, after a not guilty plea.

One first becomes resident, and so the 12 month period starts, when one first enters the UK with a settlement visa; not when one is granted ILR.

[Lancashirelad]

OK that clears up that point then 7by7.

In which case then the OP's wife CANNOT driver here until she gets a UK provisional licence.

Once she does, she must be accompanied at all times by someone at least 21 yrs old & who has held a full licence for that class of vehicle for at least 3 years. She may not drive on motorways and must display L plates.

[theoldgit]

In which case then the OP's wife CANNOT driver here until she gets a UK provisional licence.

Once she does, she must be accompanied at all times by someone at least 21 yrs old & who has held a full licence for that class of vehicle for at least 3 years. She may not drive on motorways and must display L plates.

Not quite, yes she must apply for a provisional UK licence, but the requirement to be accompanied by a full licence holder, the display of L plates and the restriction on motorway driving do not apply, though the tests must be passed within 12 months.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...ence/DG_4022561

Edited April 28, 2010 by theoldgit

[newstart07]

Thx guys for all your help and input - I have emailed the DVLA and got clarification she can only drive on a provisional D/L with plates and accompanied. So her international license was a waste of time and effort she got back in BKK last Sept Oh well !

[Lancashirelad]

In which case then the OP's wife CANNOT driver here until she gets a UK provisional licence.

Once she does, she must be accompanied at all times by someone at least 21 yrs old & who has held a full licence for that class of vehicle for at least 3 years. She may not drive on motorways and must display L plates.

Not quite, yes she must apply for a provisional UK licence, but the requirement to be accompanied by a full licence holder, the display of L plates and the restriction on motorway driving do not apply, though the tests must be passed within 12 months.

Which she didn't, thefore the requirement as above.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...ence/DG_4022561

[bobrussell]

My wife is having driving lessons now. She will only be given driving rights to my car once she has mastered a manual gearbox and roundabouts!

Her driving instructor had to check with her insurance company to make sure that lessons are OK with an international drivers licence. Apparently if you get a UK licence of any type it superceeds an international one so driving unaccompanied becomes an issue.

I still cannot recommend NFU too highly - they have been very helpful in our case. They also came out top in a recent 'Which?' survey.

As said before you do not need to be a farmer but they are not on comparison websites.

It is quite scary how many of my wifes friends are driving on international drivers licences - I have warned her that they could be in big trouble if they have an accident as they are probably uninsured. She is unenthusiastic about having to take the UK driving test as it is so tough!!!