Bangkok: Assailants Fired M-79 Grenades At Sala Daeng Skytrain Station

[senti]

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

But noone cares if your ears are closed or not v0v

[FreedomDude]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Maybe you should look at the facts -red shirts agitated the first crackdown by firing live ammunition -what do you expect the Army to do?

They had every right to respond with lethal force. The red shirt leaders continue to incite hatred and violence and remember -this is a state of emergency -they have not complied with any government requests or tried to negotiate in a rational way.

Jatuporn has no right to his MP immunity and the other leaders need to be arrested also and put away for a long time.

The timeline of your facts is mighty convenient for your arguement isn't it. You're pretty much ignoring the period of time I reference in my post.

[TheItaliann]

How does the government know where the bombs came from? Have they provided any evidence?

[bobby906]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Maybe you should look at the facts -red shirts agitated the first crackdown by firing live ammunition -what do you expect the Army to do?

They had every right to respond with lethal force. The red shirt leaders continue to incite hatred and violence and remember -this is a state of emergency -they have not complied with any government requests or tried to negotiate in a rational way.

Jatuporn has no right to his MP immunity and the other leaders need to be arrested also and put away for a long time.

The timeline of your facts is mighty convenient for your arguement isn't it. You're pretty much ignoring the period of time I reference in my post.

I dont remember the yellows firing live ammunition/grenades etc.( and killing soldiers and civilians??)

[ianf]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

are you high? seriously man, you actualy can say something like that... maybe the multi colors blew themselves up.... you should be embarrased,

*I think this guy is purposefully winding you up. Ghe Guevarra indeed!!!!!

[senti]

How does the government know where the bombs came from? Have they provided any evidence?

Was Al Capone a mafia boss?

[OzMick]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

are you high? seriously man, you actualy can say something like that... maybe the multi colors blew themselves up.... you should be embarrased,

hahahahaha....yeah..yeah.....and maybe the red shirts shot each other the other day......hahahahaha.......

Who knows what the f*cks going on

Actually, I believe exactly that. The response to the army push was a well-planned attack, including an assassination squad to take out the army c.o. This was obviously going to cause army deaths, but as a p.r. coup it required more protesters to be killed/maimed than army. not to hard to ensure. do you think the red leaders and their foreign mercenaries give a rat's about a rice farmer or 2?

[blaze]

Pretty good on the ground reporting from Marc Mackinnon to the globe and mail- http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1543209/

[Juzrelax]

I still can't get over the fact that the Police are useless. They can't even prevent a fight when they are standing right there. All they need to do is their job, why are there not mass sackings because of their inability/unwillingness to their job?

They have lost all respect here & I'd be very suprised if they havent lost total respect of the Thai public.

[NativeBob]

If one analyses the rhetoric of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership Thaksin included with his homophobic streak re comments regarding certain people however those comments of course exclude his own family member and of course his exiled henchman you come to see the alignment twixt Che Guevara and the Red Shirt Brigade.

The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation” was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.

Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?

Indeed a fine mirror image of Thaksin, Jutaporn, Arisman, Veera and Weng

And your point is... ?

[4223rhodes]

I still can't get over the fact that the Police are useless. They can't even prevent a fight when they are standing right there. All they need to do is their job, why are there not mass sackings because of their inability/unwillingness to their job?

They have lost all respect here & I'd be very suprised if they havent lost total respect of the Thai public.

We'd all like to see the police clear the yellow and pink Abhisit thugs from the street and let the protest continue, let's pray they do and get Abhisit and his cronnies behind bars.

[featography]

If one analyses the rhetoric of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership Thaksin included with his homophobic streak re comments regarding certain people however those comments of course exclude his own family member and of course his exiled henchman you come to see the alignment twixt Che Guevara and the Red Shirt Brigade.

The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation” was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.

Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?

Indeed a fine mirror image of Thaksin, Jutaporn, Arisman, Veera and Weng

And your point is... ?

Point made

[FreedomDude]

I still can't get over the fact that the Police are useless. They can't even prevent a fight when they are standing right there. All they need to do is their job, why are there not mass sackings because of their inability/unwillingness to their job?

They have lost all respect here & I'd be very suprised if they havent lost total respect of the Thai public.

Yes, yes, I agree. Any competent police force in the worlds would have shut down every road within at least a block radius of the fortified intersection. All businesses in the area would be forced to close and the area evacuated of all people. I've been staring with disbelief for the past couple of days as nobody seems to show any concern for crowd control in the area. Sadly, this lack of foresight led to more deaths and injuries.

[OzMick]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

Where is your proof that the red shirts are responsible? You're ASSUMING. Don't confuse people with lies before you have facts, please. Nobody knows who attacked who tonight. Nobody knows who launched the bombs.

The red shirts are doing exactly what they have threatened for weeks. Sae Daeng openly bragged on the microphone that the commanders were neutralized. No one has yet proven who is carrying out the attacks. I would suspect both sides and other sides.

The army commander who was shot in the head was one of tens of thousands of people on the streets. Maybe it was suicide?

The red shirts promise to stay until parliament is dissolved. Hey Che. Try that with Fidel.

If you could speak Thai, you could listen to Thai television and then you would have a better idea as to what happened with the commander. A soldier with the army division smoke-bombed his own division which then resulted in total chaos, as they thought that they were attacked by red shirts. Who shot the commander, nobody knows. But it's entirely possible that one of the soldiers fired away in panic and hit his own commander.

That's a fact, read Thai newspapers and listen to Thai television.

Your'e telling porkys again, aren't you? Don't you think we remember the report of the green laser beam targeting him? He was hit with a M-79, same as was used tonight. I have seen a lot of pictures of that night, and I haven't seen one -79 launcher in use by the army.

Also, though they initially claimed it was a mis-fire by soldiers, I believe the red leaders admitted that he was targeted.

[jonnyscot]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Maybe you should look at the facts -red shirts agitated the first crackdown by firing live ammunition -what do you expect the Army to do?

They had every right to respond with lethal force. The red shirt leaders continue to incite hatred and violence and remember -this is a state of emergency -they have not complied with any government requests or tried to negotiate in a rational way.

Jatuporn has no right to his MP immunity and the other leaders need to be arrested also and put away for a long time.

The timeline of your facts is mighty convenient for your arguement isn't it. You're pretty much ignoring the period of time I reference in my post.

we are discussing the current situation, if the Reds want to judge themselves on past wrongdoings then they certainly are no better, I am sure most good people of thailand were contented (note I don't say happy) with the way the country was being run, in modern society it is normal procedure to allow parlament to run its course, why can't the Red Leadership just wait the wait, and then the People can decide, whether its 3 months 9 months or whatever, the people can decide, whatever the current government were doing so wrong in the eyes of the Red supporters, it was not sufficient to justify so many loss of life.

[grandpops]

I still can't get over the fact that the Police are useless. They can't even prevent a fight when they are standing right there. All they need to do is their job, why are there not mass sackings because of their inability/unwillingness to their job?

They have lost all respect here & I'd be very suprised if they havent lost total respect of the Thai public.

They never had any respect but that is not the issue anyway.

This isn't an incident taking place with 2 or 3 drunks fighting, this is potentially a civil war which only the Army seem to be trying to prevent.

Quite clearly on every report on every channel this week, the Silom mob have had free reign to lob bottle and stones. The propaganda minister got it wrong sending in the press to that area. As the reds were doing nothing much the film crews filmed what was going on around them in the Silom area and that was an organised mob rioting. Uncomfotable but true.

People on here want violence, but they want it yellow on red. If you spend all week calling for violence and trying to perpetrate it and (as in the case of the Government) letting one side form amidst your army and police lines what do you expect. They got the violence they wanted (from the Silom mob but not the Army) and their only regret is that people on the "wrong side" died.

Need bigger people in Government than Abhisit and Co. Violence is wrong on both sides and a mature government should have spent more time resolving this issue than organising PAD back on the streets.

This could be just the begginng and I think Anupong is the only man who can do anything much here. Nothing is better than killing a few thousand people and inciting the country to war. Enough family and friends back in the North for serious Beruit level violence to be brought to Bangkok if they get this wrong.

Crying to the police will not help. They are not doing their jobs with either the PAD mob or the Red mob, which is even handed and not as inflamatory as killing people on one side.

Locking up the Government along with Thaksin, Newin and half the elite would be a good first step.

[freedom4life]

Civil Court grants injunction which prevents PM from using force to disperse red shirt rally

If Martial Law needs to be declared to circumvent this insane court order then let it happen and let it happen now.

Let the present gov't dissolve and let it dissolve now...

[froglegisgood]

......you're starting to sound like you're out of breath. It was an act of terrorism against people going home from work or against the army who were stationed an the skytrain (in which case it was an act of war.)

Difficult for it be an act of war :

"....an act of aggression by a country against another with which it is nominally at peace."

I think you should explain that to Neurath in layman's terms

can someone tell me how i put this guy on ignore? I am on a mac using firefox, could not find any button on ignore

flg

[froglegisgood]

......you're starting to sound like you're out of breath. It was an act of terrorism against people going home from work or against the army who were stationed an the skytrain (in which case it was an act of war.)

Difficult for it be an act of war :

"....an act of aggression by a country against another with which it is nominally at peace."

I think you should explain that to Neurath in layman's terms

can someone tell me how i put this guy on ignore? I am on a mac using firefox, could not find any button on ignore

flg

[cougar52]

......you're starting to sound like you're out of breath. It was an act of terrorism against people going home from work or against the army who were stationed an the skytrain (in which case it was an act of war.)

Difficult for it be an act of war :

"....an act of aggression by a country against another with which it is nominally at peace."

I guess many would like it to be though, it would give them a reason to go all out.

Please do not mislead by not providing the complete definition :

War should be understood as an actual, intentional and widespread armed conflict between political communities. Thus, fisticuffs between individual persons do not count as a war, nor does a gang fight, nor does a feud on the order of the Hatfields versus the McCoys. War is a phenomenon which occurs only between political communities, defined as those entities which either are states or intend to become states (in order to allow for civil war). Classical war is international war, a war between different states, like the two World Wars. But just as frequent is war within a state between rival groups or communities, like the American Civil War. War should be understood as an actual, intentional and widespread armed conflict between political communities. Thus, fisticuffs between individual persons do not count as a war, nor does a gang fight, nor does a feud on the order of the Hatfields versus the McCoys. War is a phenomenon which occurs only between political communities, defined as those entities which either are states or intend to become states (in order to allow for civil war). Classical war is international war, a war between different states, like the two World Wars. But just as frequent is war within a state between rival groups or communities, like the American Civil War. Certain political pressure groups, like terrorist organizations, might also be considered “political communities,” in that they are associations of people with a political purpose and, indeed, many of them aspire to statehood or to influence the development of statehood in certain lands.

[grandpops]

From the OP

The army chief said Thursday that he hoped to end the standoff without any more blood being spilled.

"Whatever I do will depend on the situation, and the outcome would be good for the country and we can uphold the law with no people dead or injured," General Anupong Paojinda told AFP.

Any action "must be legally responsible", added Anupong, who was last week put in charge of security in the capital by the government.

If they let him do it properly, he is the only one that can solve this. A true statesman of a younger generation could be born.

But what the PAD, the CRES and especially Suthep want is only for the Red side to be defeated and sidelined for ever. They are undermining Anupong by acting independently of him, organising mobs etc. along the lines that two mobs are better than one.

If that is true, then this red mob has righted the PAD mob at the airport (WHICH IT HASN'T). So even the bizarre logic of the Banned Suthep does not hold true.

More effort to resolve this and less calls for violence and retribution is the only way. As uprisings go, this one is still low level and under control. You just don't realise how bad this would be if they started killing red shirts.

Get behing Anupong and stop calling for violence. It is never the answer.

[SiangDeeMahk]

And as 2 foreigners are supposed to have been injured, the foreign press will have a field day and put the final nail in the tourist industry.

I just watched some video taken at the BTS station. You're onto something quite important here, but I think you've missed some major points.

First of all, this attack on the BTS platform today CHANGES EVERYTHING.

No longer are there only battles of increasing intensity (ensuing between demonstrators and police/army/"dark elements") in the specific areas of the demonstrations, and/or politically "important" sites (with possible unintended "stray bullet" casualties, etc), but now; multiple explosive devices have been DELIBERATELY SHOT into a public transportation area, filled with INNOCENT, NON-INVOLVED, NON-COMBATIVE CITIZENS, with horrific injuries and (so far) 1 death. And the bombs (yes, a small handheld or launched explosive device with timed fuse, and intentional shrapnel IS A BOMB!) were reportedly launched from OUTSIDE of the Skytrain station, ONTO the openair platform. So, no security measures put into play by BTS officials (mandatory bag inspection/metal detector/wanding/pat downs) can lessen the threat of other perfectly innocent people (Thai or foreign) getting blown to bits as they innocently go about their day.

Now of course, the foreign press WILL report on this extensively (ie: have a field day), but really, my point is that this event is a paradigm shift in the level of danger to ANYONE in Bangkok. You don't have to be next to a demonstration anymore. Now, any human being, from any (or no) political group is in mortal danger even while standing in uninvolved areas. So, even if the media only reported that innocent, non-involved Thai's had been killed and injured as they stood on a train platform (which is something that westerns can associate with), the nail in the coffin effect would still take place. You don't even NEED the "field day writing antics". Just a simple blurb of the fact that some people not involved with the colored shirt nonsense were deliberately blown to bits on an outdoor public transportation platform will suffice to end tourism. (but the fact that they'll make HUGE stories out of it will just exacerbate it)

It's over folks (regardless of who launched the bombs). Bangkok's tourism and foreign business investment is OVER. All the temples, palaces, historical sites, the restaurants, the shopping, the nightlife.. the factories... DONE.

A good chunk of the rest of Thailand's tourism will take a pretty hefty hit, too. There may be a few returning visitors who know how to make a vacation out of the other Thailand attractions, but I'm pretty willing to bet that prospective new visitors who don't have a terrific knowledge of Thailand, and most likely associate Bangkok with being the "essence of Thailand" (after learning that innocent people have been targeted and killed on the public transportation system), will simply decide that without Bangkok to visit, their hard earned tourist $$ would be better (and more safely) spent in some other S.E. Asian country.

I'm actually gonna start the conversation today (with the GF) about dumping the BKK apartment, the BKK jobs, and finding a safer place to live.

(and believe me, THAT'S serious)

It's OVER. What a waste.

[OzMick]

Let's please remember that we don't know who launched these bomb attacks. According to Channel 7, one pink shirt was seen beating up a red shirt at the SkyTrain station, who he thought was responsible for the attacks. The man is now in the hospital in serious condition.

It was an attack on a skytrain station. You can argue all you want about what color shirt they were, but you cannot now argue that it was a terroristic act perpetrated by terrorists. I would suppose that everyone can take off the inverted commas now. Wouldn't you agree.

Your logic escapes me. What do you call launching explosive projectiles into a public place BUT terrorism? if there is another name for this, please enlighten us all.

[RKASA]

What is the range of an M79? The nearest was 250m to red camp location claimed as the source and as far as 600m. (according to BBC map) Keep in mind buildings and sign boards to over come. In the best of conditions three of the 5 are out of range completely. 1 is doutful and the closest is possible but given the other four? Again, another attack, ? and lies and nobody saw a dam_n thing.

[LuckyLew]

I still can't get over the fact that the Police are useless. They can't even prevent a fight when they are standing right there. All they need to do is their job, why are there not mass sackings because of their inability/unwillingness to their job?

They have lost all respect here & I'd be very suprised if they havent lost total respect of the Thai public.

We'd all like to see the police clear the yellow and pink Abhisit thugs from the street and let the protest continue, let's pray they do and get Abhisit and his cronnies behind bars.

You must be kidding

I think the majority og Thai would like the military to roll

in and take out the red by whatever menas necessary.

Enough is enough ... the red shirt leaders are pro violence

and need to be dealt with with violence

[Xangsamhua]

From the OP

The army chief said Thursday that he hoped to end the standoff without any more blood being spilled.

"Whatever I do will depend on the situation, and the outcome would be good for the country and we can uphold the law with no people dead or injured," General Anupong Paojinda told AFP.

Any action "must be legally responsible", added Anupong, who was last week put in charge of security in the capital by the government.

If they let him do it properly, he is the only one that can solve this. A true statesman of a younger generation could be born.

But what the PAD, the CRES and especially Suthep want is only for the Red side to be defeated and sidelined for ever. They are undermining Anupong by acting independently of him, organising mobs etc. along the lines that two mobs are better than one.

If that is true, then this red mob has righted the PAD mob at the airport (WHICH IT HASN'T). So even the bizarre logic of the Banned Suthep does not hold true.

More effort to resolve this and less calls for violence and retribution is the only way. As uprisings go, this one is still low level and under control. You just don't realise how bad this would be if they started killing red shirts.

Get behing Anupong and stop calling for violence. It is never the answer.

Settle down Pops. If nothing circuit-breaking happens, then the PAD will mobilize in a couple of days - they gave the government seven days starting from last Sunday - and then you'll see a very large, properly coordinated and non-violent demonstration of people's feeling.

If I'm wrong, then it shows that the PAD are no longer a significant and cohesive force.

The colored shirts at Silom may have some PAD supporters among them, but they are not sanctioned by PAD. They are just frustrated Bangkokians, tired of unwelcome visitors camping in their living room.

[animatic]

If one analyses the rhetoric of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership Thaksin included with his homophobic streak re comments regarding certain people however those comments of course exclude his own family member and of course his exiled henchman you come to see the alignment twixt Che Guevara and the Red Shirt Brigade.

The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation” was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.

Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?

Indeed a fine mirror image of Thaksin, Jutaporn, Arisman, Veera and Weng

And your point is... ?

Point made

Well made.

[SM7WGP]

Lets not forget this ruling party and its vice perm. was responsible for the massacre back in the early 80s to.

They have always killed people to stay in power thats the only way they can do because they will never win an election .

Edited April 23, 2010 by SM7WGP

[shawndoc]

What is the range of an M79? The nearest was 250m to red camp location claimed as the source and as far as 600m. (according to BBC map) Keep in mind buildings and sign boards to over come. In the best of conditions three of the 5 are out of range completely. 1 is doutful and the closest is possible but given the other four? Again, another attack, ? and lies and nobody saw a dam_n thing.

350 Meters according to

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl06-e.htm

I have no idea how far it is from the statue area the shot was supposed to come from to the BTS station.

[vicco]

Went to bed early last night and missed all this. Logged on to the forum this morning and started reading this thread. Usual stuff.....ridiculous statements from both sides. Opinion posing as fact...evidence not required. Watched a bit of TV---France 24, Aljazeera etc. Nobody is taking responsibility for the grenade attacks.... amazing, what a surprise. Obviously the networks have not consulted with Thaivisa....fountain of knowledge and current intelligence.

So far there is no real evidence to support any of the statements that the reds fired, nor is there any evidence of any kind (that I have seen) to support statement that they did not. Whoever fired them it seems pretty clear that the aim was to provoke a bloody reaction and get a lot of people killed and injured. That is all we can reasonably assume at this point. In the meantime we are on track for 40-50 pages of the usual finger pointing, name calling and generally uncivilized behavior. I pity the moderators, I don't know how they can keep from just shutting down every one of you that engages day after day in this same bloody nonsense. We could have a civil exchange about the problems facing this country, but there are hard core opinionated individuals on here who will not allow that to take place....and then there is the legion of one liners who have no real opinion and have absolutely nothing useful to say, but insist on cluttering up the threads with illuminating offerings like "idiot" or "you don't know what you'r talking about" ...these people even annoy the Trolls. If push comes to shove I would prefer a good creative and articulate Troll to someone who just spits instead of saying something.

It's quite interesting to go back and read what was being posted back in mid March.... just about all of it was nonsense ...not all, but most. Here we are 6 weeks later and nothing much has changed....except for about 30 dead and maybe 1000 injured people....and nobody really KNOWS who killed who.

Handing it all back to the forum military strategists and political commentators now.....Thank you for your time.