Age Factor In Teaching Jobs

[Xircal]

What role does age play in teaching vacancies? I often see 35 years old as the upper limit for teachers. This worries me a bit since I'm 66 already and intend to do a TEFL course later this year with a view to getting a teaching job so that I can marry my Thai GF and settle down in Thailand.

I don't have a BA or any other degree either which probably doesn't help.

Would I be advised to look for work in Bangkok, or move on out into the sticks? I don't care where I go and neither does my GF. I'm not looking for a high salary and just 15,000 Baht a month would more than suffice to supplement my pension and bring it to just abve the 40K a month requirement to get a marriage visa extension.

Any tips will be most appreciated.

[Ijustwannateach]

Most TEFL job ads are fantasies. You'll see incredible things there- native English speaking foreigner, M.Ed's required, under 35, with a TEFL and several years of experience, willing to work 6 days a week and 25 contact hours, for 20,000 a month and no paid summer break.

When you read a job like that, forget the actual words and translate as follows: 'We are clueless silly people who don't know what the job market for competent foreign workers is about. This means we are also desperate and will take anyone who at least sounds like an English speaker, will accept our ridiculous job conditions, and won't care too much about the paperwork.'

The third point is the one you should be most interested in. If you need this income to qualify for a visa, you will have to justify on paper where it comes from. That means you MUST find a job that provides a work permit, which in the TEFLing world means mostly Bangkok (and sometimes Chiang Mai). However, it also means low-to-medium salaries in areas with higher expenses.

Continuing on from that point: since it's TEFL, the BA is not *that* important though it would be nice if you had one (and also give you more options later). However, since you need a full-paperwork job, there's no guarantee later that changes in qualification requirements would not catch you out.

Furthermore, assuming that you are planning to survive on 40K a month, have you checked out how inflation works? It is highly unlikely that your salary will rise as fast as inflation here, and so this means that every year which passes will mean less value for a relatively low amount of money. Would you have to try to go back to your home country eventually using this income? Have kids? Pay for dental expenses? Get health insurance? It does seem like you are an older individual, so these things might become important (and require money).

Unless for some reason you have other means of income which you simply don't want to reveal for the sake of getting your visa, it seems like the choice you are considering making is a very poorly-thought-out one.

[cardinalblue]

at 51 now, I have found discrimination far greater than when I was under 50. So at your age and the energy level it takes to teach...

You should re-think your plan. I don't think it is the teaching as much as relying on teaching to bring you above the fiscal requirement to live in this country. What are you going to when you are 69 or 70 and don't feel like teaching any more or no one will hire you..

Your issue should be to focus in on how to make money and teaching probably isin't the best answer for your future beyond a few gigs or assignments....

Organic rice, exporting, your wife's contribution?

CB

[PeaceBlondie]

I started teaching here with a BA, TEFL, and more energy than most Thai teachers have, at age 60. Did very well at the job, never missed a day of work. Two years later, fell off the motorcycle and ruined my shoulder doing a visa run I should never had to do. Stopped working. Had 3 strokes. I'm 67 now. If they hire you, it'll probably be a crappy job (my job conditions were above average). You might get lucky. Good luck.

[Gladiator]

Xircal,

I have sent you a PM

Gladiator

[hellyes2oo2]

Hi Mate,

Ageism isn't just restricted to teaching jobs. I have run bars in england for almost 30 years, and I would pit my wits for new promotional ideas against any of these so called whizz kids of today.I have 3 regional "Bar of the year" awards, but can I get a job in Thailand, not a hope.Employers think that only young guys can think up new promotions, and they also think that older guys have health problems. That is all BS.I am as fit and well as any younger guy.But employers don't seem to want to take a chance,well that is their loss. Another thing that they don't think about is the fact that at my age I am not motivated by enormous salaries, but what I bring to the job, is a wealth of experience, stability, and reliability, which is not a thing that a 30-35 year old guy will give them, because the minute a better money offer comes along he will be off.Anyway sorry for rambling on, and I wish you the best of luck in your search for a job.

[Xircal]

Thanks for the comments and criticisms guys, most welcome.

I accept that teaching as a means on deriving an income which will qualify for a marriage visa isn't ideal, but with the restrictions Thailand imposes on foreigners wanting to do most other jobs, I don't really have much choice if I want to settle down here with my GF. Maybe I'll have to forget the marriage visa side and just rely on Non-Imm 'B's for the time being.

I have enough info to proceed on that basis and it will simply be a case of passing the TEFL now and then finding a job.

I take on board the fact that I'm not getting any younger, but I'm healthy, I don't look my age and people seem to like me when they meet me, so I'm hoping that will count in my favour when I meet prospective employers.

Neither am I looking for the big bucks although anything which exceeds my expectations will be most welcome.

Can anybody recommend any Provinces where the odds will count in my favour? I thought about Isaan with Buriram as a possible starting point. Does anybody have any other suggestions?

Edited April 23, 2010 by Xircal

[Sisaketmike]

Thanks for the comments and criticisms guys, most welcome.

I accept that teaching as a means on deriving an income which will qualify for a marriage visa isn't ideal, but with the restrictions Thailand imposes on foreigners wanting to do most other jobs, I don't really have much choice if I want to settle down here with my GF. Maybe I'll have to forget the marriage visa side and just rely on Non-Imm 'B's for the time being.

I have enough info to proceed on that basis and it will simply be a case of passing the TEFL now and then finding a job.

I take on board the fact that I'm not getting any younger, but I'm healthy, I don't look my age and people seem to like me when they meet me, so I'm hoping that will count in my favour when I meet prospective employers.

Neither am I looking for the big bucks although anything which exceeds my expectations will be most welcome.

Can anybody recommend any Provinces where the odds will count in my favour? I thought about Isaan with Buriram as a possible starting point. Does anybody have any other suggestions?[/quot

There's a school in the lower North-east, 150km away from Buri Ram, I can't promise you the job, but give it a try. Government primary school, EP program. Please page me, I'll give you the needed information. Cheers.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[Sisaketmike]

I started teaching here with a BA, TEFL, and more energy than most Thai teachers have, at age 60. Did very well at the job, never missed a day of work. Two years later, fell off the motorcycle and ruined my shoulder doing a visa run I should never had to do. Stopped working. Had 3 strokes. I'm 67 now. If they hire you, it'll probably be a crappy job (my job conditions were above average). You might get lucky. Good luck.

With all respect, but I've seen so many Thais who are full time teachers, being on duty at most weekends. Their life is being at school. No criticism about your teaching results, please don't get me wrong.

[pattaetsz]

You are not alone. A 62 y.o claster of sin and good intentions from Moscow having no TEFL experiences and missing more than a halve of speach when watching moovies is going to apply for teaching job somewhere within 50 km from an ocean shore. I read this forum, read ajarn and I think we have some chance to stay longer legally and to fill up the daytime to feel satisfaction tonight. For I will come Thailand later this year I hope to get to know the events in the overdues employment whatever the events are. Think me Your fan.

[tfc]

Wow, I would have thought that older teachers might have the advantage that people/students perceive them as having greater experience/knowledge etc.

[PeaceBlondie]

I started teaching here with a BA, TEFL, and more energy than most Thai teachers have, at age 60. Did very well at the job, never missed a day of work.

With all respect, but I've seen so many Thais who are full time teachers, being on duty at most weekends. Their life is being at school. No criticism about your teaching results, please don't get me wrong.

I doubt most of the Thai teachers worked most weekends. My comment was about how much energy they displayed. Most of them usually just sat behind the desk and spoke Thai in English classes. They are dedicated and they dress well.

[otherstuff1957]

Yes, ageism is rife in Thailand. While it is true that Thais have an exaggerated respect for older people, this does not translate into increased job opportunities, but rather the opposite. Thai bosses have huge issues with supervising people who are their own age or older. So, they usually only employ people who are younger than they are.

Given that Thais have a mandatory retirement age of 60, anyone over 50 or 55 is going to have a hard time finding a job here. If you walk into a job interview and notice that the person interviewing you is noticeably younger than you, you can probably just write that job off.

The only positive I can offer is that, as Farangs, we are outside of Thai society and some people won't be as concerned with a Farang's age as they would with the age of a Thai person. Also, appearance and energy count for a lot here. If you are reasonably fit and personable, the chances of a Thai boss being willing to overlook your age will be much higher.

[Xircal]

First of all, my apologies for not responding to the additions made by several contributors to my thread just lately. Thanks for the info people.

But one thing that concerns me now is the whole rigmorole surrounding a Non-Imm 'B' (Teaching) Visa. For what I've been reading on the Visa orientated forum, a Non-Imm 'B' will only be issued for 90 days after which I'm expected to leave the country and re-enter 10 minutes or so later and hand over 1,900 Baht in order to receive another 90 days extension (form TM7). This can be done four times officially, or five times if one applies seven days prior to its one year expiry date.

So once the 15 months are up, one presumably has to apply for a completely new visa. If that is indeed the case, are there any restrictions regarding how many times a new one can be applied for? Also, I presume it means applying at a Thai Consulate somewhere. Any recommendations on that score?

Also, I'm thinking that job location is going to be determined by the nearest border if indeed I have to exit and re-enter every 90 days, otherwise the cost of travelling from say Khon Buri to Cambodia every time is going to make the cost of living too expensive.

[PeaceBlondie]

No. Your permit is issued for the duration of your contract and you don't leave.

[otherstuff1957]

^ Yes, your initial non-B visa will be good for 90 days. If you get a multiple entry visa, you can use it the way you outlined above. However, most people get a Work Permit with their job. You can take this WP and some other paperwork to immigration and get a one year extension. Once you have the one year extension, you don't have to leave the country until you want to or until you leave the job.

I haven't left Thailand for over 2 years.

[Xircal]

No. Your permit is issued for the duration of your contract and you don't leave.

^ Yes, your initial non-B visa will be good for 90 days. If you get a multiple entry visa, you can use it the way you outlined above. However, most people get a Work Permit with their job. You can take this WP and some other paperwork to immigration and get a one year extension. Once you have the one year extension, you don't have to leave the country until you want to or until you leave the job.

I haven't left Thailand for over 2 years.

Well, that's good to hear. I had visions of eating up the proceeds of my job paying for bus fares and visa fees.

[mizzi39]

^ Yes, your initial non-B visa will be good for 90 days. If you get a multiple entry visa, you can use it the way you outlined above. However, most people get a Work Permit with their job. You can take this WP and some other paperwork to immigration and get a one year extension. Once you have the one year extension, you don't have to leave the country until you want to or until you leave the job.

I haven't left Thailand for over 2 years.

Agree. The Non B and work permit go hand in hand. Like the above poster stated, you do not have to leave the country within the year, but you do have to report to immigration every 90 days to verify your current address and phone number.

[Martian]

With regard to the subject of this thread, age. Here are the ages of our foreign teachers this year: 25, 26, 26, 27, 28, 29, 50, 55, 60, 62, 66. Last year we had many more younger teachers (in their mid 20's) and many, many "young people problems" too.

Martian

[nullx8]

this counts also for Thai's ...

i know alot of thai-teachers ... teaching english .. but dont know how to make a full sentence.

or engeneering teachers ... with no idea about mathematics ... <deleted> ?

well iam not a teacher at all ... but i think, in order to "teach" need some sort of Life experience and of course experience in the field they teach.

[Myaimistrue]

In most international schools you're out at 62, though they might extend you one year if you make some concessions. For the Thai staff at my school, they're last day is their 62nd birthday. Nice birthday present!

[Scott]

This thread is about the age factor in teaching. Let's try to stay on that topic and not other issues.

Quite some years ago, when Thailand decided English was important for students, teachers were assigned to teach English. This was not determined by their level of skill; it was an administrative/governmental decision.

I attended a seminar for English teachers. The vast majority were Thai teachers, with a very significant number of those complaining about their own inability to function in English, let alone teach it. There were some very good teachers, but English was not their forte.

In the area of Mathematics, I have not seen the same situation. I've met some pretty impressive Math teachers and quite a number of engineers with excellent math skills.

Now back to the age factor.

[Phatcharanan]

In most international schools you're out at 62,

Absolute rubbish.

And no..........I ain't over '62' but work within the true blue Internationals.

[Kiwiinthailand]

I am 61 and will be starting a position at a private Thai school this year.

Kiwi

[Scott]

I think that thus far in this thread we can make a conclusion that older people can find work.

It would appear that there is a great deal of variation from school to school. I know that where I work, it's a toss up. Some 60+ people have been hired without a question. Then others are labeled as too old. In my limited experience with these situation, much has depended on their experience and qualifications, with older people with years of experience getting a job and those who are relatively new to teaching being labeled as "too old".

Looks and appearance also play a factor, I think.

So what is the oldest teacher that you know? What is the oldest that you know of someone being hired for the first time at a school.

The oldest one that I am aware of being a first time hire is 67 years old (qualified and experienced in a number of countries).

Also, do you know of anyone denied a work permit because of age? (I don't).

[Scott]

I have set up a poll and will close this topic. Feel free to participate in the poll and comment in that thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Oldest-Teachers-t369408.html