Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[SICA]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

I thought the red leaders were willing to negotiate if the troops left. Wasn't that the last statement regarding negotiations?

Do you have proof that Abhisit "ordered the murder of Thais" as you put it?

Isn't Abhisit willing to negotiate for the good of the country, rather than "wanting to negotiate with terrorists"? And there is obvioulsy a terrosit element within the red shirts groups.

You are speculating that Abhisit wants to negotiate the same time scale. You don't know what he is willing to negotiate.

[tonywebster]

I my honest opinion, which will mean little to anybody but what the he_ll i'm going to add it, Abhisit has only himself to blame for this whole mess caused by the Red Shirts.

From the very beginning he was too lenient with their encampent at Central. Hindsight being a wonderful pain in the ar_se, i am sure evrybody will agree that the encampent should never have been allowed to happen, double standards or not. An immediate show of force might have been the answer way back then. However we will never know.

I am a fan of Abhisit and i believe that he has this country's best interest at heart. In my opinion he is a true believer in democracy and given the right amount of time to prove himself he may have changed the minds of many Thaksin supporters. Perhaps this is one reason why the red's are where they are now, in some crazy attempt to affect people's judgment of him as a leader.

At this moment i believe that the only way out of this mess is for him to call to an election in 6-9 months, be allowed to run the country properly until such time (hopefully showing many of the Thaksin supporters his abilities during this time) and the Red leaders to agree to it. i really don't believe that will happen so i see there being no other way out than using force.

Can somebody tell me why the military and the police can't enter the red's camps in riot gear with only truncheons and shields and physically remove the reds, put them in the large black trucks that are all over the capital and take them to a compund to be processed? And by processed i mean names, photo's, fingerprints etc and then sent back to their home towns at the governments expense. Why the need for firearms and ammo, be it rubber or live. This sort of thing used to happen every saturday afternoon outside pubs and football grounds in the UK. If the red shirt terrorist division (and lets be honest here, there is one) decide to use firearms, then and only then arm troops.

A show of physical force rather than lethal force may have an effect? Who know's.

Short term memory loss without impairment of long term memory is an indicator of Alzheimer's Disease. The army was sent in in crowd control/dispersal mode a couple of weeks ago, and were savagely attacked leading to 25 deaths. If you can't remember that, but can remember your childhood, you should consult a doctor, if you can remember where his surgery is located.

Why do you have to get so personal about one persons opinion on here! Why be aggressive towards me? You don't know me so what gives you the right to question whether i have Alzheimers? I was simply asking a question. I suppose attempting to bully your answer onto others makes you feel better about yourself, right?

Did the Army enter the camps armed? If so then i suppose that would insight a similar response from those they are attempting to disperse.

I was merely suggesting a response that might cause as little, unnecessary violence as possible. If i made an error then simply state that.

It's because he's a right wing douche

as far as I am aware every thread had the same warning in it today about abusing other posters, and the abuser would be banned.

[SabaiBKK]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

yeah they should just be forced out instead like when the yellow mob took over government house and the airport! some people have very short memories.

The bottom line is that this government was never elected.

And why do people keep saying that abbisit should do something? Do u honestly believe that he really has the power to make any descision? All the descisions are made by "someone else" in this draconian country.

the bottom line is you have obviously no clue about the situation .... dam_n I hate it when people speak about what they don t know and try to make other people believe that they know ....

[AndersJensenThailand]

Yesterday i was told by a lady who do PR for the goverment that Thaksin have cancer, so it looks like he dont care what will happen to the people of thailand, he just whant hes mane to go over in historie.

[tonywebster]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

I thought the red leaders were willing to negotiate if the troops left. Wasn't that the last statement regarding negotiations?

Do you have proof that Abhisit "ordered the murder of Thais" as you put it?

Isn't Abhisit willing to negotiate for the good of the country, rather than "wanting to negotiate with terrorists"? And there is obvioulsy a terrosit element within the red shirts groups.

You are speculating that Abhisit wants to negotiate the same time scale. You don't know what he is willing to negotiate.

Abhisit is doing nothing for the good of the country, he is doing what he is doing to prolong his ill gained rise to the premiership. Also there is not OBVIOUSLY a terrorist group associated to the reds, there is if you buy the government propoganda, but those of us that are a little more sceptical see this for what it is, an attempt to discredit the reds, a few casualties on the way to doing this is a small price to pay for the government/army/yellows etc.

[jcbangkok]

Did the Army enter the camps armed? If so then i suppose that would insight a similar response from those they are attempting to disperse.

Wow!!!!!!!! Only in Thailand. Anywhere else people would be intimidated and fear the consequences of such actions against those lawfully ordered to uphold the law. I am so sick of hearing reds whine that the army is armed. They and the police should be and they should react swiftly to anyone who doesn't submit to their orders and react very harshly to anyone who assaults or threatens them. However, the should not be armed while doing crowd control for the simple reason that their guns could be snatched by the lawless mob. They need to do their shooting from a distance and regretfully that will result in unarmed people dying. But at least it helps prove the laws of natural selection since these folks are stupid enough to be part of a lawless mobs, are already aware of the past violence, have been told repeatedly to leave .... seems they have dug their own hole.

But the real problem is this government's, that the reds claimed so strongly is military backed, failure to have the stomach to see blood shed against it's own people and keep changing the line that needs to be crossed before they will take action.

[SabaiBKK]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

a) This is an elected government.

Calling immediate elections gives the win to the terrorist Thaksin thugs. Nobody wants that.

c) Abhisit is a true democrat, negotiated peacefully and offered 9 months. They did not take it because it was not what they wanted. Thanksin ordered a civil war. Full stop.

Wow. Do you really believe that? Amazingly selective memory. Did you forget about the coup in 2006? The changes to the constitution and how they came about? As for who wants what? To you, they may be "Thaksin thugs," but to other people they're just protestors who want their democracy back.

Perhaps new elections NOW would solve the problem, at least temporarily. It doesn't look like the Red Shirts are going anywhere.

democracy back?????? since when Thailand was a democracy before? and most of all in what dream did you see Thailand as a democracy under Thaksin iron fist? the Thaksin years were the worst dictature since pibulsongkram

[elcent]

looks like there's a confession

-- The Nation

An actor-turned-red shirt whom red shirts movement denied his leading role actually involved in deadly clashes between the red shirts protesters and troops on April 10.

Tharit Pengdit, director general of department of special investigation, said Methee Amornwuttikul, who was arrested on Thursday, confessed that he and his team involved in the clash with the troops at Si Yak Kok Woe intersection.

During the clashes, he and his team snatched weapons, including rifles, from soldiers.

"At first Methee claimed that he distributed the weapons to many people and did not keep any. However after arresting him on Thursday, we found a weapon in his car," he said. Methee then retracted his statements.

He also said that the red shirts protesters used heavy weapons to shoot the soldiers.

Methee also revealed sources of the heavy weapons used in the clashes.

Tharit quoted Methee in a TV-pool programme aired on Friday as saying he was one of the red shirts' core leader and had attended meetings of the core leaders many times at a disclosed location.

Red shirts leader Nuttawut Saikua said Thursday that Methee was simply an ally of the movement and had no role of controlling and planning the protest.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[TonyH]

A farmer from Issan ??? I dont beleive with what i know about a m-79 could be that good with it. I used one in Viet nam , you have to know waht you are doing to hit a target with it ////

Don't forget about subscription.

Many Thai farmers have been in the army done their time and have gone through rigorous training with weapons.

I would not be a bit surprised if half the men in the red camp are well trained soldiers.

Unfortunately that make this whole civil war issue very real.

[hammered]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

The unmetnionabl;e news source has him as saying it was ordered by the UDD leadership

[SICA]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

I thought the red leaders were willing to negotiate if the troops left. Wasn't that the last statement regarding negotiations?

Do you have proof that Abhisit "ordered the murder of Thais" as you put it?

Isn't Abhisit willing to negotiate for the good of the country, rather than "wanting to negotiate with terrorists"? And there is obvioulsy a terrosit element within the red shirts groups.

You are speculating that Abhisit wants to negotiate the same time scale. You don't know what he is willing to negotiate.

Abhisit is doing nothing for the good of the country, he is doing what he is doing to prolong his ill gained rise to the premiership. Also there is not OBVIOUSLY a terrorist group associated to the reds, there is if you buy the government propoganda, but those of us that are a little more sceptical see this for what it is, an attempt to discredit the reds, a few casualties on the way to doing this is a small price to pay for the government/army/yellows etc.

If there is no terrorist element within the Red Shirts, and i willing to accept if i am mistaken, then why do i see so many photographs and video of red shirts in violent situations with weapons.

Are you suggesting that the government or Army are firing grenades at their own people in an attempt to win sympathy?

[tonywebster]

If there is no terrorist element within the Red Shirts, and i willing to accept if i am mistaken, then why do i see so many photographs and video of red shirts in violent situations with weapons.

Are you suggesting that the government or Army are firing grenades at their own people in an attempt to win sympathy?

That picture is so old I am surprised it is not black and white. And yes, I am suggesting that the government are not adverse to collateral damage if it boosts their cause. It would not be the first time and I am sure it will not be the last.

[tonywebster]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

The unmetnionabl;e news source has him as saying it was ordered by the UDD leadership

Cool, it must be true then or maybe they are just reporting what they were told, just like if someone told them there was life on Mars, they would report it without knowing if it is factual.

[Bkung]

I was in Sala Deang yesterday after taking the last train before the M-79 landed on BTS station, the red are killing innocent people which they can't denied any more for fake red who frame them up as the grenade was shooting from the Lumpini site where the camp of the red more over today police detain actor Manteen who was driving his car out from the red protest site, police found gun and other war weapon and his confess that all this were stolen from army camp few months ago.

" A red killing innocent people can't be the next government if they won the election even their nominee Phue Thai party "

People will stand up and fight for this !

Edited April 23, 2010 by Bkung

[Lumumba]

Yesterday i was told by a lady who do PR for the goverment that Thaksin have cancer, so it looks like he dont care what will happen to the people of thailand, he just whant hes mane to go over in historie.

Did you expect her to tell you that Thakky runs marathons every other day? Or that he get it up 5 times every night?

I bet she aint an oncologist, and would not know what cancer looks like. Or that rich people can live with horrible diseases much longer than poor healthy people.

[tonywebster]

I was in Sala Deang yesterday after taking the last train before the M-79 landed on BTS station, the red are killing innocent people which they can't denied any more for fake red who frame them up as the grenade was shooting from the Lumpini site where the camp of the red more over today police detain actor Manteen who was driving his car out from the red protest site, police found gun and other war weapon and his confess that all this were stolen from army camp few months ago.

" A Killing red can't be the next government if they won the election even their nominee Phue Thai party "

People will stand and fight for this !

Fantastic you must have clearly seen with your own two eyes who fired the grenades, make haste down to the police station and submit your witness statement.

[somchaiq]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

Right because this government don't know what elections are,they are voted by the elite, military .When this happen in a Western country the people don't take it either.

But I think you're to long in Thailand and you don't know it either.

I may be also to long in Thailand, but Aphisit's Government is total legal, also if he has the royal elite and military behind him. You should do a research about Democracy and how a Prime Minister can be selected without new elections.

Do not make the mistake and think that there will be any Democracy with the Red Shirts as Government. Nothing will change, except that we will have the yellow shirts out on the roads again.

[gbswales]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

Life is never that simple - in a country with a high standard of education across the whole population that is true but in a country where huge areas have been neglected there are real dangers in majority rule (which is basically what elections are) The communist model failed becasue the majority got rid of a minority who were sufficently educated to be able to understand the economy and how it fitted into a world stage. This is always a danger when you democratise a country to early in its evolution - look at what has happened across parts of Africa.

What is needed is an "undemocratic" government which is capable of both generating wealth and sharing it with those who need it most. They need to ensure that every child from every small village in Thailand has the same fundamental opportunities in life. This takes vision, courage and strong leadership - strong enough to at times say "No" to the greedy and rich without alienating them. Strong enough to say to the poor "you can have all these things but you must work hard towards them". Then there is the real problem which is that there are no overnight solutions and you will be asking this generation to work to give their children oportunties that they will never have.

I say to shirts of any colour - you will never achieve lasting change by demonstrating in the streets and is real change is to be achieved then it has to be accepted that the change will be of any benefit to people who are alive now - it is the same problem as global warming - you have to ask people to accept hardship in order to build a better future for their children's children. Effective and lasting change must happen very slowly - otherwise there are no foundations to the society and in time it will crumble. It took about 80 years for communism to fall but to have built the society that its founders envisaged would have taken 3-4 generations and would have needed all the existing people that they killed or threw in gulags

The real problem is that there is no hope for the future generation that will directly benefit the current one - never mind Thailand we havent learnt this in the UK yet!

[SICA]

If there is no terrorist element within the Red Shirts, and i willing to accept if i am mistaken, then why do i see so many photographs and video of red shirts in violent situations with weapons.

Are you suggesting that the government or Army are firing grenades at their own people in an attempt to win sympathy?

That picture is so old I am surprised it is not black and white. And yes, I am suggesting that the government are not adverse to collateral damage if it boosts their cause. It would not be the first time and I am sure it will not be the last.

Old or not it shows a red shirt protestor with a rather scary looking weapon!

Ok, i can understand you sceptism about the terrorist within the Red camps. However, you must agree that there is a bad elepment to any political movement. those people who see opportunites like this to cause trouble and get away with it under the baner of 'fighting for justice' and you must also surely agree that there are a few of these poeople with the red's, surely?

[hammered]

It doesnt matter what partisans on this board say they will stick to their belief whatever. What matters is what the neutrals or the silent majority think. There is a brutal PR game going on with no holds barred right now. However, with Methee's confession it just got a little to possibly a lot harder for the reds.

[Thai at Heart]

It doesnt matter what partisans on this board say they will stick to their belief whatever. What matters is what the neutrals or the silent majority think. There is a brutal PR game going on with no holds barred right now. However, with Methee's confession it just got a little to possibly a lot harder for the reds.

Imagine being the bloke who tells the world that the group you support actively shoots army personnel in the head remembering that saying it will probably annoy the leadership of said group.

This guy may well be inspecting his own brains soon be it from a red, black or green bullet. What a fool.

[topsecret]

There's nothing complicated about this situation. The PM has two choices.

1. Clear the protesters swiftly and effectively.

2. If he is unable to do this, he must step down and dissolve parliament.

There is no third option.

[tonywebster]

If there is no terrorist element within the Red Shirts, and i willing to accept if i am mistaken, then why do i see so many photographs and video of red shirts in violent situations with weapons.

Are you suggesting that the government or Army are firing grenades at their own people in an attempt to win sympathy?

That picture is so old I am surprised it is not black and white. And yes, I am suggesting that the government are not adverse to collateral damage if it boosts their cause. It would not be the first time and I am sure it will not be the last.

Old or not it shows a red shirt protestor with a rather scary looking weapon!

Ok, i can understand you sceptism about the terrorist within the Red camps. However, you must agree that there is a bad elepment to any political movement. those people who see opportunites like this to cause trouble and get away with it under the baner of 'fighting for justice' and you must also surely agree that there are a few of these poeople with the red's, surely?

I try and see both sides to be perfectly honest, however in this matter i seem to come down on the side of the reds. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are undesirables in the red movement, but I also know from fact (wifes family, not isaan, from just outside bangkok, professional people, not paid to be there) hat there are good people there and there for a cause.

My belief is that everything is not as it seems, even the government has hinted at a third hand trying to destabilise the process, so it could be one of three, the reds doing it, the government doing it, or a third hand with something to gain.

We all know the people will not tolerate another coup so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the army are involved and then they can come charging in to save the country with everyone thanking them for performing a coup and saving the country.

There are a few possibilities, and until we know for definite I feel it a little harsh the way the reads are spoken about, usually by the people when I have read back on the forum that seems to think the yellows actions were perfectly reasonable.

there is a fair bit of hypocrisy on here mate and I like to play devils advocate, like above someone comments that the reds fired the grenades, let that guy get his witness statement down to the police station, or is it just speculation?

When we are all dealing with opinions what makes another poster thing his opinions are any more valid that mine? can you see my point.

[tonywebster]

It doesnt matter what partisans on this board say they will stick to their belief whatever. What matters is what the neutrals or the silent majority think. There is a brutal PR game going on with no holds barred right now. However, with Methee's confession it just got a little to possibly a lot harder for the reds.

alleged confession

[wlcart]

There's nothing complicated about this situation. The PM has two choices.

1. Clear the protesters swiftly and effectively.

2. If he is unable to do this, he must step down and dissolve parliament.

There is no third option.

Your point is very correct, although I think it may be too late for "swiftly and effectively", especially the swiftly part. I never thought it could get to this point in the first place.

[tonyPhuket]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

Interesting point.... I honestly don't know except we must NOT give in anything to the terrorists and I am pretty sure all of us support that. Is the idea of the immediate government dissolution good sign for the terrorists? Or is it better to give six months to prepare for that dissolution sounds more safer security and cover all the issues to meet General Election's requirement and to prevent the unforeseen volience. In addition to that, I am bit curious why Red Shirts make that demand suddenly last month. Is it relating to the problem over Thaksin's verdict?

[granuaile]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

I read this too, but the red shirt apologists will dismiss it because of their own myopia. He certainly obtained that weapon some place. I read that he provided a lot of information. Hopefully enough to convict the redshirt leaders and their big backer...

[SICA]

If there is no terrorist element within the Red Shirts, and i willing to accept if i am mistaken, then why do i see so many photographs and video of red shirts in violent situations with weapons.

Are you suggesting that the government or Army are firing grenades at their own people in an attempt to win sympathy?

That picture is so old I am surprised it is not black and white. And yes, I am suggesting that the government are not adverse to collateral damage if it boosts their cause. It would not be the first time and I am sure it will not be the last.

Old or not it shows a red shirt protestor with a rather scary looking weapon!

Ok, i can understand you sceptism about the terrorist within the Red camps. However, you must agree that there is a bad elepment to any political movement. those people who see opportunites like this to cause trouble and get away with it under the baner of 'fighting for justice' and you must also surely agree that there are a few of these poeople with the red's, surely?

I try and see both sides to be perfectly honest, however in this matter i seem to come down on the side of the reds. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are undesirables in the red movement, but I also know from fact (wifes family, not isaan, from just outside bangkok, professional people, not paid to be there) hat there are good people there and there for a cause.

My belief is that everything is not as it seems, even the government has hinted at a third hand trying to destabilise the process, so it could be one of three, the reds doing it, the government doing it, or a third hand with something to gain.

We all know the people will not tolerate another coup so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the army are involved and then they can come charging in to save the country with everyone thanking them for performing a coup and saving the country.

There are a few possibilities, and until we know for definite I feel it a little harsh the way the reads are spoken about, usually by the people when I have read back on the forum that seems to think the yellows actions were perfectly reasonable.

there is a fair bit of hypocrisy on here mate and I like to play devils advocate, like above someone comments that the reds fired the grenades, let that guy get his witness statement down to the police station, or is it just speculation?

When we are all dealing with opinions what makes another poster thing his opinions are any more valid that mine? can you see my point.

Absolutely spot on and i thank you for being polite in the way you put it.

These forums are all about opinion. I too cannot stand to read comments from those who believe their comment to be the only one that counts.

I don't really have a 'side' in all of this. Amongst all of the hype and propoganda that is being thrown about i am just trying to work out what i think is the truth. I don't suppose i ever will but in the meantime it is quite entertaining reading the posts. Like everybody else here, i hope, i just want to see an end to this stand-off as it is doing nothing for the name of Thailand (and making my commute to work each day a real bi_tch!)

I honestly do believe that Abhisit would be good for Thailand, given a decent time in office. However i can, to a point, see the argument of the red shirts. As with both sides there are some very unsavoury characters involved and i do wonder if they would be the right people to have in places of power should one of the sides eventually win an election.

I certainly do not agree with the yellow shirts encampment at the airport. I still don't understand how in this day and age a country can be held to ransom by a few thousand people taking a whole airport hostage. Most other countries in the world and the first yellow to set a foot out of place at the airport would have been shot in the back in the name of national security!

Anyway, the past is the past. Abhisit and his advisors [sic] are in a very unsavoury position and most of it is their own doing by allowing this to happen in the first place. Whatever happens needs to happen soon and for the good of Thailand. I only hope, but seriously doubt, it happens peacefully and without any more bloodshed, but i doubt it......

[sunnythai]

Nahhhhh - just mix all that confiscated viagra into the water being delivered to the red camp - wait twenty four hours then go in and march them out just like Noah - two by two

Seriously though, my feeling is that Abhisit has the wrong portion of the army on the streets - he's using infantry, what he needs is the field engineers with their heavy equipment for removing obstructions and clearing terrain.

Just roll forward with side by side bulldozers, dirt-blades lowered, backed up by airfield fire trucks firing water cannons over the bulldozers without let up - it'd wash the less staunch protesters away from the contact lines, and the die-hards would have the choice to move or die ..... thing is, the bulldozers would be pushing so much barricade rubble in front of them, the die-hards wouldn't get within 10 metres of the dirt blade, so it all becomes nominally a use of non-lethal force (protesters hurt by their own bamboo, not army equipment). Heck the firetrucks could even spray fire fighting foam instead of water - that would really disorganise the hordes. Water from water cannon makes it too much like Songkran - and that of course is sanook, not a serious measure.

Other non-lethal weaponry can be deployed and used prior to the move-in by the authorities. For example,

Forget tear gas (more correctly called CS-gas) it's not effective against these sorts of hard core protesters. Use pepper bombs instead.

Soak the streets with water, and add non-lethal electrical charges - stop them from sitting or lying down. Deny them rest and exhaust them.

Begin building the barricades to deny egress to side sois and pedestrian alley ways - build a "cattle channel" to herd them all into somewhere like Lumpini or Sanam Luang, with holding pens and segregation areas erected there, so authorities can filter out the "red guards" and leaders - deny them the opportunity to slink off quietly once the troops go in.

There is so much the government and army could be doing to show they're serious and to demoralise / disrupt the reds, which would encourage defection from their camp, but I haven't seen any evidence of any such measures being enacted. There's too much "wait and see" and not enough "prepare and forewarn" from the government to the protesters. They need to see physical activity warning them of what's coming before any verbal warnings will have effect.

Abhisit seems to be taking the measures that Thatcher used against the coal miners in the UK in the 1970s, and I don't believe that will work in this situation. He needs to get creative and bring unrelenting psychological pressure against the rank and file, so they leave of their own accord before the showdown with the hard-core and leaders.

I agree...no weapons just use common sense, do not stop until all the barricades are gone. With the dozers side by sideand water connon on full force, you can't stand the force of that.

[BangkokDennis]

All we are saying

and saying

and saying

and saying

is give peace a chance.