Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[anotherpeter]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

a) This is an elected government.

Calling immediate elections gives the win to the terrorist Thaksin thugs. Nobody wants that.

c) Abhisit is a true democrat, negotiated peacefully and offered 9 months. They did not take it because it was not what they wanted. Thanksin ordered a civil war. Full stop.

Wow. Do you really believe that? Amazingly selective memory. Did you forget about the coup in 2006? The changes to the constitution and how they came about? As for who wants what? To you, they may be "Thaksin thugs," but to other people they're just protestors who want their democracy back.

Perhaps new elections NOW would solve the problem, at least temporarily. It doesn't look like the Red Shirts are going anywhere.

WHAT in the 2007 constitution effected the PPP or any other party in the 2007 elections?

What is the point in solving the problem temporarily? That is no good for Thailand in the long term.

[OzMick]

I my honest opinion, which will mean little to anybody but what the he_ll i'm going to add it, Abhisit has only himself to blame for this whole mess caused by the Red Shirts.

From the very beginning he was too lenient with their encampent at Central. Hindsight being a wonderful pain in the ar_se, i am sure evrybody will agree that the encampent should never have been allowed to happen, double standards or not. An immediate show of force might have been the answer way back then. However we will never know.

I am a fan of Abhisit and i believe that he has this country's best interest at heart. In my opinion he is a true believer in democracy and given the right amount of time to prove himself he may have changed the minds of many Thaksin supporters. Perhaps this is one reason why the red's are where they are now, in some crazy attempt to affect people's judgment of him as a leader.

At this moment i believe that the only way out of this mess is for him to call to an election in 6-9 months, be allowed to run the country properly until such time (hopefully showing many of the Thaksin supporters his abilities during this time) and the Red leaders to agree to it. i really don't believe that will happen so i see there being no other way out than using force.

Can somebody tell me why the military and the police can't enter the red's camps in riot gear with only truncheons and shields and physically remove the reds, put them in the large black trucks that are all over the capital and take them to a compund to be processed? And by processed i mean names, photo's, fingerprints etc and then sent back to their home towns at the governments expense. Why the need for firearms and ammo, be it rubber or live. This sort of thing used to happen every saturday afternoon outside pubs and football grounds in the UK. If the red shirt terrorist division (and lets be honest here, there is one) decide to use firearms, then and only then arm troops.

A show of physical force rather than lethal force may have an effect? Who know's.

Short term memory loss without impairment of long term memory is an indicator of Alzheimer's Disease. The army was sent in in crowd control/dispersal mode a couple of weeks ago, and were savagely attacked leading to 25 deaths. If you can't remember that, but can remember your childhood, you should consult a doctor, if you can remember where his surgery is located.

[meom]

A show of physical force rather than lethal force may have an effect? Who know's.

Who knows indeed. It might be better than the stand off they're having now.

It could get ugly though similar to the 1992 LA riots which in the end were stopped when the National Guard, US Army and Marines were called in.

[SICA]

I my honest opinion, which will mean little to anybody but what the he_ll i'm going to add it, Abhisit has only himself to blame for this whole mess caused by the Red Shirts.

From the very beginning he was too lenient with their encampent at Central. Hindsight being a wonderful pain in the ar_se, i am sure evrybody will agree that the encampent should never have been allowed to happen, double standards or not. An immediate show of force might have been the answer way back then. However we will never know.

I am a fan of Abhisit and i believe that he has this country's best interest at heart. In my opinion he is a true believer in democracy and given the right amount of time to prove himself he may have changed the minds of many Thaksin supporters. Perhaps this is one reason why the red's are where they are now, in some crazy attempt to affect people's judgment of him as a leader.

At this moment i believe that the only way out of this mess is for him to call to an election in 6-9 months, be allowed to run the country properly until such time (hopefully showing many of the Thaksin supporters his abilities during this time) and the Red leaders to agree to it. i really don't believe that will happen so i see there being no other way out than using force.

Can somebody tell me why the military and the police can't enter the red's camps in riot gear with only truncheons and shields and physically remove the reds, put them in the large black trucks that are all over the capital and take them to a compund to be processed? And by processed i mean names, photo's, fingerprints etc and then sent back to their home towns at the governments expense. Why the need for firearms and ammo, be it rubber or live. This sort of thing used to happen every saturday afternoon outside pubs and football grounds in the UK. If the red shirt terrorist division (and lets be honest here, there is one) decide to use firearms, then and only then arm troops.

A show of physical force rather than lethal force may have an effect? Who know's.

Short term memory loss without impairment of long term memory is an indicator of Alzheimer's Disease. The army was sent in in crowd control/dispersal mode a couple of weeks ago, and were savagely attacked leading to 25 deaths. If you can't remember that, but can remember your childhood, you should consult a doctor, if you can remember where his surgery is located.

Why do you have to get so personal about one persons opinion on here! Why be aggressive towards me? You don't know me so what gives you the right to question whether i have Alzheimers? I was simply asking a question. I suppose attempting to bully your answer onto others makes you feel better about yourself, right?

Did the Army enter the camps armed? If so then i suppose that would insight a similar response from those they are attempting to disperse.

I was merely suggesting a response that might cause as little, unnecessary violence as possible. If i made an error then simply state that.

[jcbangkok]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

But that might mean a "loss of face" and that the "terrorists win". We can't have that, can we?

Let them vote... I am not sure the red will win again.... but for me the problem will never be solved even with the vote. The future PM or government have to share the power with the opposition or minimum to respect them and hear their voice.... if you think your are the boss of the country and you do what you want, so it's not a real democracy. It is what the "red" peoples are thinking now. Vote for someone, but see nothing back... or better idea, the new PM come from a minor party not yellow nor red, like this perhaps the ego of both sides will step down and they will manage the country for every Thai not only for their Thais (supporters).

Yes, vote now and then whoever opposes the winner can take to the streets again and claim election fraud or how the gov't & election committee were intimidated to hold these elections. Holding votes now or any house dissolution would be the WORST possible decision for Thailand. hmmm, I guess that means it will likely happen.

There is only ONE WAY TO PEACE & ORDER and sadly to say that it is enforcing law and showing that mob rule, terrorism, mob intimidation, violence, taking hostages and so on will never be tolerated in The Kingdom.

For God's sake forget all about the obvious law breaking and violence the reds have caused ... just look at what they are doing now in terms of hording weapons and creating an armed fortress in the middle of the commercial district and putting 60,000 people out of work as well as delivering a huge blow to what was the improving Thai economy. This chaos and insurgency needs to be put down now.

If the current government was truly harming the poor of this country (and not the opposite as can be proven by the records) then sure, if they are willing to die for their cause so be it. But instead the cry and whine any time the law is attempted to be upheld. They want to hurt anyone who opposes or stands in their way but cry foul any time the rule of law is attempted to be enforced or people oppose them.

The failure for the government to not take the threats of this mob seriously will be the downfall of this country for at least a decade to come. It is clear why other democracies around the globe would not have put up with this after the first few days when the Reds made clear they would violate every rule and request of the police.

What is utterly mind boggling is this Thai on Thai non violent desire. Do Thais feel the same way about another Thai when their child is raped or killed. Why doesn't the government wake up and realize now the general Thai population want an end to this even if it means many Red Shirts are injured and killed and even if it means a sacrifice to some of the military. War is no fun but make no mistake, the Reds have declared war on Thailand ... or was that a civil protest when the hijacked that military transport?

[TonyH]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

a) This is an elected government.

Calling immediate elections gives the win to the terrorist Thaksin thugs. Nobody wants that.

c) Abhisit is a true democrat, negotiated peacefully and offered 9 months. They did not take it because it was not what they wanted. Thanksin ordered a civil war. Full stop.

Wow. Do you really believe that? Amazingly selective memory. Did you forget about the coup in 2006? The changes to the constitution and how they came about? As for who wants what? To you, they may be "Thaksin thugs," but to other people they're just protestors who want their democracy back.

Perhaps new elections NOW would solve the problem, at least temporarily. It doesn't look like the Red Shirts are going anywhere.

"It doesn't look like the Red Shirts are going anywhere."

Except perhaps UP in a cloud of smoke, soon.

[PhuketRam]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

This is the whole problem, the Government is NOT an Elected Government, the current Government was put in power by court Judge (probably paid to do so). So why not just have an Election, No is the answer cos the current government wont win.... It will be another Red Shirt landslide win...

[Centrum]

This has nothing to do with new elections, falang-reds, (you still remind me of wiggers, hehe) or do you really believe that those, er, protesters risk their lives just to get to vote 6 months earlier? Puuuulease, get real. This has to do with payments and propaganda.

Quite so. The UDD has had over a year to call for a house dissolution but they had to wait until the verdict on ''Dear Leader's' tax evasion case.

The saddest farang are those who claim this is a movement for democracy or the end of the rich elite/poor exploited farmers.

Even if Thaksin became president, they would still be poor. Nothing would change.

[Miiyai46]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

a) This is an elected government.

Calling immediate elections gives the win to the terrorist Thaksin thugs. Nobody wants that.

c) Abhisit is a true democrat, negotiated peacefully and offered 9 months. They did not take it because it was not what they wanted. Thanksin ordered a civil war. Full stop.

Abhisit Vejjajiva came to power illegitimately because his Democrat Party was not the top vote-getter ( the so called Thaksin's allies did ) in the last "election". Military pressure on lawmakers of other parties allowed him to cobble together a coalition government.

Thaksin's political allies came to power in the last December 2007 election to restore democracy, but courts forced two successive pro-Thaksin prime ministers out of office on grounds their supporters found dubious and ridiculous ( especially the one for Samak ).

[gemini81]

sorry, but i wonder a little bit of these grenades.

Is it so easy to get them? Maybe the government should follow where they came from....IF they really want too.

Never heard they sale this weaponry in 7/11 or Lotus

Thaksin was recently found to have purchased many of them from Russia, as it was stated on the channel 3 news last week. Of course, he tried to conceal it, but now they found out.

I think you can fill in the gaps on how the M 79's got in the hands of criminals.

On the news, they suggest he hired it, or sponsers it (and that it was being investigated, whatever that leads to)

They don't need their M 79's anymore though, they can use petrol to torch people like they did last night. Tragedy.

[firestar]

Short term memory loss without impairment of long term memory is an indicator of Alzheimer's Disease. The army was sent in in crowd control/dispersal mode a couple of weeks ago, and were savagely attacked leading to 25 deaths. If you can't remember that, but can remember your childhood, you should consult a doctor, if you can remember where his surgery is located.

Well... personal attacks on the original poster should get your post deleted...

Still, talking about short term memory, why wasn't the army sent "in a crowd control/dispersal mode" to disperse the yellows but rather cheered them along? Isn't that exactly what the reds are protesting against a dual society?

As for the Reds "savagely attacking" the army, who's word are you taking for it? military officials? Riiiiight because we all know that in developing countries there is never anybody more trustworthy and incorruptible than military officials

Edited April 23, 2010 by firestar

[jcbangkok]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

Edited April 23, 2010 by jcbangkok

[bkkjames]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

[tonyPhuket]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

[jcbangkok]

Short term memory loss without impairment of long term memory is an indicator of Alzheimer's Disease. The army was sent in in crowd control/dispersal mode a couple of weeks ago, and were savagely attacked leading to 25 deaths. If you can't remember that, but can remember your childhood, you should consult a doctor, if you can remember where his surgery is located.

Well... personal attacks on the original poster should get your post deleted...

Still, talking about short term memory, why wasn't the army sent "in a crowd control/dispersal mode" to disperse the yellows but rather cheered them along? Isn't that exactly what the reds are protesting against a dual society?

As for the Reds "savagely attacking" the army, who's word are you taking for it? military officials? Riiiiight because we all know that in developing countries there is never anybody more trustworthy and incorruptible than military officials

The Yellow Shirt incident is now over and your comments PROVE that the government's failure to act against unruly & violent crowds is the exact rational that is allowing for the current terrorism and insurgency. More proof that the military needs to take whatever action is needed to restore peace and to discourage future lawless uprisings.

[jcbangkok]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

Red leaders have admitted he was a Red Supporter but not part of any decision making process .. not a leader. Soon, I am sure they will be claiming he is not a real red shirt as they do anytime they think their group is over stepping the lines to the point of having the public turn on them but of course they are a day late and a dollar short on this approach now.

[animatic]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

But that might mean a "loss of face" and that the "terrorists win". We can't have that, can we?

Who cares about loss of face,

the danger is that 'The Terrorists Win'.

That is the true danger

and more powerful than any philosophical issue too.

Edited April 23, 2010 by animatic

[tonywebster]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

[gemini81]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

...and those petrol bombs that were tossed at 11pm last night.

They're really begging for problems!

[firestar]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

At a time when he knows everybody is looking for him he drives around with a stolen military assault rifle in the boot, you really believe that?

Honestly. A healthy dose of skepticism wouldn't hurt anybody on this forum...

Edited April 23, 2010 by firestar

[tonywebster]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

[bkkjames]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

I agree with you there about hearing it first hand. I know it was published in the news updates today (nation) but I mentioned the other paper carrying the story on purpose to preempt the usual 'nation' biased stuff.

[evanson]

Perhaps it would be best to give all demonstrators, Red, Yellow, Pink, etc a deadline to disband after which time those who remain will be subject to arrest and a stiff fine. You can't negotiate with a mob, and their existence only strengthens the possibility of violence.

'Colours' other than 'red' are only belatedly in attendance after having witnessed the complete and utter failure by those whom were elected to protect the best interests of the majority, read 'democracy' to fulfill their duty. Ergo, if it were not for the 'reds' read: Taksin's paid for mob, the others need not be there attempting to do their job for them. Geddit?

[TonyH]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

And people should believe this!!!

Its quite normal for the Investigators to say to a suspect " Tell us the whole truth now and we will push for a reduced sentence" So he blabbed it all out.

[animatic]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

At a time when he knows everybody is looking for him he drives around with a stolen military assault rifle in the boot, you really believe that?

Honestly. A healthy dose of skepticism wouldn't hurt anybody on this forum...

It was a pistol,

and how bright does he need to be to be a Thai Actor.... hhhmmm

Based on most things I see; not anywhere into rocket scientist range for sure.

Besides reds instill a invincibility attitude into their protegés,

he likely thought he was above actually getting caught.

[jcbangkok]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

a) This is an elected government.

Calling immediate elections gives the win to the terrorist Thaksin thugs. Nobody wants that.

c) Abhisit is a true democrat, negotiated peacefully and offered 9 months. They did not take it because it was not what they wanted. Thanksin ordered a civil war. Full stop.

Wow. Do you really believe that? Amazingly selective memory. Did you forget about the coup in 2006? The changes to the constitution and how they came about? As for who wants what? To you, they may be "Thaksin thugs," but to other people they're just protestors who want their democracy back.

Perhaps new elections NOW would solve the problem, at least temporarily. It doesn't look like the Red Shirts are going anywhere.

Since you seem to favor giving in to the terrorist demands because the reds are not going anywhere and that elections would at least temporarily reduce tensions ... then why not just go for upholding the law and clearing the reds out since this would have a long term positive effect? Also, you are only wishing an election will reduce problems. My guess is that if the gov't agreed there would be a whole group of other protesters heading to the streets ASAP as this is the way things are done here because there are no consequences.

Besides .. the reds don't just want elections but also for the PM to voluntarily exile himself. Not sure what more they will want later today but it certainly is not to compromise even 1%. Remember, all these things have to happen today now .. they even took 15-days off the table.

One can only wonder if they had half a brain and negotiated for 3 or 4 months when the PM offered 9-months. They would pretty much be at that time frame now.

It boggles my mind that anybody, especially westerners, would agree to give into their demands regardless if you believe in their cause. It is not like you have a government in power authorizing summary executions of folks like that of Thaksin. Also, the rule of law is currently working to dissolve the current political party but because the Reds intimidated the Election Commission, you can bet their will be a number of legal and just rulings to put this back to the election commission AFTER the reds have are brought under control.

Shame on all of you who think that this is the way for political change. If the reds feel so oppressed and want a revolution then so be it and let them be willing to sacrifice their lives actually do this instead of trying to hurt so many that are not involved ... what they are doing now is simply terrorism.

[tracer5050]

A farmer from Issan ??? I dont beleive with what i know about a m-79 could be that good with it. I used one in Viet nam , you have to know waht you are doing to hit a target with it ////

[jcbangkok]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

At a time when he knows everybody is looking for him he drives around with a stolen military assault rifle in the boot, you really believe that?

Honestly. A healthy dose of skepticism wouldn't hurt anybody on this forum...

It was a pistol,

and how bright does he need to be to be a Thai Actor.... hhhmmm

Based on most things I see; not anywhere into rocket scientist range for sure.

Besides reds instill a invincibility attitude into their protegés,

he likely thought he was above actually getting caught.

First reports said it was a pistol but today the official who talked of his confession on TV said it was an assault rifle.

[jcbangkok]

Today ... Methi Amornwuthikul, a Thai actor and Red Shirt, admitted being part of the shooting at the military on April 10th and that he was following the orders of Red Shirt leaders.

He had earlier admitted to help stealing guns from soldiers and helping distribute them to other Red Shirts.

He was arrested while driving his car. Found in his possession was a stolen military assault rifle.

At a time when he knows everybody is looking for him he drives around with a stolen military assault rifle in the boot, you really believe that?

Honestly. A healthy dose of skepticism wouldn't hurt anybody on this forum...

It was a pistol,

and how bright does he need to be to be a Thai Actor.... hhhmmm

Based on most things I see; not anywhere into rocket scientist range for sure.

Besides reds instill a invincibility attitude into their protegés,

he likely thought he was above actually getting caught.

First reports said it was a pistol but today the official who talked of his confession on television said it was an assault rifle.

[tonywebster]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

I agree with you there about hearing it first hand. I know it was published in the news updates today (nation) but I mentioned the other paper carrying the story on purpose to preempt the usual 'nation' biased stuff.

yes I don't read the nation, but I have read it in the other paper, I am taking it with a pinch of salt. It is a typical tactic to make the reds think the police and army now know everything. I am sure they aware of the tactics and will not be too worried by the announcement. If they know where all the seized weapons are stored I am sure we would have heard by now from the army on their fantastic raid in recovering the seized weapons.

Pure tactical move by the government in releasing this information. I am sure the actor has been smacked round a little or a lot but doubt he would know the info they are after.