Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[tonywebster]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

Interesting point.... I honestly don't know except we must NOT give in anything to the terrorists and I am pretty sure all of us support that. Is the idea of the immediate government dissolution good sign for the terrorists? Or is it better to give six months to prepare for that dissolution sounds more safer security and cover all the issues to meet General Election's requirement and to prevent the unforeseen volience. In addition to that, I am bit curious why Red Shirts make that demand suddenly last month. Is it relating to the problem over Thaksin's verdict?

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

[anotherpeter]

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

That's pretty much what it comes down to.

One of the reasons for the 2006 coup was that Thaksin was trying to put his people at the top of the army.

That's the same issue this time. The current powers do not want Thaksin (through his puppets) to control who gets in at the top with this reshuffle.

Unfortunately, he who controls the army, controls the country.

That happens now. That would happen under Thaksin.

[Crushdepth]

I am bit curious why Red Shirts make that demand suddenly last month. Is it relating to the problem over Thaksin's verdict?

Yes - they got stroppy in the lead up to the court decision on Thaksins asset case. Since he lost we are now seeing the result of Taksin's hissy fit over the "inhumane" decision to take some of his money away.

Anyone that thinks an election is going to solve this is nuts:

* It sets a precedent where a *minority* group of thugs can call elections any time they want by bombing the populace.

* The intimidation and bombings aren't won't stop during the election campaign. They'll get worse.

* If the reds lose, they won't accept the result anyway, so why should we entertain an election?

[TonyH]

Foreign diplomats to visit rally site : Nuttawut

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Foreign envoys of 40 countries will visit the red shirts protesters at Rajprasong rally sites, red shirts leader Nuttawut Saikua said Friday.

The visit scheduled on 4pm clearly showed that the reds' fighting for democracy has been monitored by the international community.

Nuttawut said if PM Abhisit Vejjajiva wanted to disperse the red shirts protesters, he should have it done during the diplomats' visit.

He told the protesters to be a good host by cleaning up the rally sites from Lumpini Park to Ploenjit intersection to welcome the guests.

He said he would invite the diplomats to be on stage during the visit.

-- The Nation 2010-04-23

Do these diplomats realize what danger they would be in ? It would be like going into a hungry lions cage!

The reds have already proved they are a bunch of blood thirsty revolutionary's against ruling elitists.

But it could work out quite well for the governments image if the reds kidnap or even harm some diplomats, as this would perhaps bring world attention to the reds true colours (pun intended)

[jonclark]

Well the one positive aspect to this whole situation is that as yet they haven't blamed the farangs.. which is the normal get out clause in all arguments and disagreements involving Thais

Maybe that's why the reds went to the UN. To get some farangs involved so they can blame them for their woes.

[LevelHead]

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

Getting close now, if Team Yellow get their way and rig the reshuffle how they want, then there will never be another election.

There will be a coup once the reshuffle is done.

Then "New Politics" will be introduced where the government is 60% "appointed" and only 40% "elected" meaning never again will any elected Political Party be able to control the country, the country will forever be run by an "appointed" government majority.

Appointed by, well, the "old money" Elite, or Team Yellow for want of other words.

[tonywebster]

Absolutely spot on and i thank you for being polite in the way you put it.

These forums are all about opinion. I too cannot stand to read comments from those who believe their comment to be the only one that counts.

I don't really have a 'side' in all of this. Amongst all of the hype and propoganda that is being thrown about i am just trying to work out what i think is the truth. I don't suppose i ever will but in the meantime it is quite entertaining reading the posts. Like everybody else here, i hope, i just want to see an end to this stand-off as it is doing nothing for the name of Thailand (and making my commute to work each day a real bi_tch!)

I honestly do believe that Abhisit would be good for Thailand, given a decent time in office. However i can, to a point, see the argument of the red shirts. As with both sides there are some very unsavoury characters involved and i do wonder if they would be the right people to have in places of power should one of the sides eventually win an election.

I certainly do not agree with the yellow shirts encampment at the airport. I still don't understand how in this day and age a country can be held to ransom by a few thousand people taking a whole airport hostage. Most other countries in the world and the first yellow to set a foot out of place at the airport would have been shot in the back in the name of national security!

Anyway, the past is the past. Abhisit and his advisors [sic] are in a very unsavoury position and most of it is their own doing by allowing this to happen in the first place. Whatever happens needs to happen soon and for the good of Thailand. I only hope, but seriously doubt, it happens peacefully and without any more bloodshed, but i doubt it......

Politeness breeds politeness mate.

I think Abhisit could have been a good PM, but not yet.

I had an interesting conversation over lunch with a Thai, we were both in agreement that Abhisit come to the top too soon and with too many people to thank for being there, the guys hands are tied, too many people have an interest in getting him to that position so he owes too many people favours in return.

If he had waited another 5 years or 10 years he could have won an election, had the mandate of the people, and owed nobody, he could have been the decision maker rather than be in the position he is in now. The Dems were too keen to grab power, they grabbed it via the back door, they grabbed it despite also being guilty of vote buying (and now the new EC things against them). Now whether these things are true or not is not important, what is important is that if you are a red shirt is IF YOU BELIEVE them to be true.

I feel his political career will be scarred for ever now, too eager to take the reigns.

If you are a red and you are told that your vote counted for nothing in the end, the man that helped you has been kicked out, the people that despise you are going to take over despite not winning the election, they are being helped by the army to get power by way of a coup and a military backed court, the PAD also had a hand in this, they think you are too stupid to have a vote and should just shut up etc etc etc, Now like I have just said, whether all this is true or not does not matter if the red shirts believe this to be true, and to be fair anyone with an open mind could see that there are too many circumstances there that seem likely to lead to some sort of conspiracy.

I am not even Thai but I could sit down and put together a great conspiracy with all that has gone on, and people will believe it, there are too many coincidences and this is why people are protesting, not because they get paid (not all of them are), not because of Thaksin, but because they think it is the right thing to do to get some equality back.

[FatherF]

And Thaksin and his puppets wouldn't dream of doing anything like that, would they....................................

[munns]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

no goverment should be allowed to govern that has not been voted for ??

[quiksilva]

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

Getting close now, if Team Yellow get their way and rig the reshuffle how they want, then there will never be another election.

There will be a coup once the reshuffle is done.

Then "New Politics" will be introduced where the government is 60% "appointed" and only 40% "elected" meaning never again will any elected Political Party be able to control the country, the country will forever be run by an "appointed" government majority.

Appointed by, well, the "old money" Elite, or Team Yellow for want of other words.

You speak of speculation as if it were fact! Its nothing more than the work of your own imagination.

[quiksilva]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

no goverment should be allowed to govern that has not been voted for ??

YAWN... every MP was elected next!

[TITI1971]

There's nothing complicated about this situation. The PM has two choices.

1. Clear the protesters swiftly and effectively.

2. If he is unable to do this, he must step down and dissolve parliament.

There is no third option.

3rd option possible :

- Clear the protesters swiftly and effectively AND immediately after step down and dissolve parliament. New election, new PM not red nor yellow (or a change in the constitution for a differnt style of government, federal union or ...), and try to fix every problem from the justice to the army, and first teach to every Thai the real problem without use the words Farmer, poor, uncivilized, ... and manage the country without the pressure of elitist and rich peoples. Manage the country for EVERY Thai with respect of each other.

But I know I am dreaming.... it will be blood again, protest again, no election, no justice, and always the words poor, farmer, enemy, terrorist, unciviliszed, elitist, rich and absolutely no care of all the Thai peoples, just care of the(ir) business and money...

all my friends are yellow or red, farmer (some are rich enough) or businessmen (some are poor enough), everybody know each other and they know which color they are... but there are for sure no terrorist and no politicians.... and when we party together there is no bad words, no guns, no fight, no problems, or perhaps just too much alcohol.... just normal people I must say.

[tonywebster]

YAWN... every MP was elected next!

But not every cabinet member. And if all it needs is to be elected to become the government then why bother having different parties, EVERY MP should be the government. Oh wait, that is why there are constituencies and the party that wins most seats normally manages to form the government, either outright or as a coalition. Considering the Dems did not win enough seats to manage to do either then we can assume that the voters did not want them in power, if the voters wanted them then they could have on an election . However the party that did win was disbanded for vote buying, the dems despite being guilty of vote buying were not disbanded, they simply took their money and BOUGHT coalition partners in order to get a majority in order to govern the country.

So despite the fact that every MP was elected, it is clear the current government were NOT elected, if they were we would not have this mess now.

If you had read the post he does not say the MPs were not elected, he says the government were not elected, maybe you should have answered that one rather than go off at a tangent.

[jcbangkok]

... because they think it is the right thing to do to get some equality back.

Hand outs? Sounds like they want communism / socialism but want to pretend and call it democracy. But the fact remains they want anything Thaksin wants ... it is all about wanting money and believing one (bad) man is larger than life. All of the poor people up north are free to come to the city and make a better living. This is the case in almost all countries. If you want money, you move to the cities where the money and power is. The current PM has ensured the poor have both free medical and education as well as giving hand outs of money to the poor. These terrorists and supporters of terrorists are acting as though they are being beaten and stolen from on a daily basis. Protest all you want (legally) but this thing has turned very ugly and there is nothing but thugs left among the reds (appropriate color) in bangkok.

[ozzieman05]

It is a bit naive to think there is any quick and easy way out.

Thailand is deeply divided, and that may take a generation to heal.

Or a civil war, where the pawn in the front line understand they are not invincible, and they can die

That they will never see a leader when the fighting starts

But No worries

Look in the sky

Its a bird no a man

It Super T

A mild mannered business man who return to see truth , justice and the return of his milions

[ozzieman05]

PM Abhisit made a very clear point from start that Government is still opening all the dialogues for Red Shirts but regretfully Red Shirt leaders rejected it. That is the clear reason how the cause series of the life losses & injured ones happened recently. Does Red Shirts realise that? Now it is not surprised that UN urgued both Government and Red shirts to resume the dialogue..... Is the fights enough & time to resume the talks for the sake of everyone.

How can one make something clear from the start that they are still open to talks? Do you mean they made it clear from the start they were open for talks? They were either open from the start or become open later. In this case it was the reds that wanted dialogue but abhisit refused, then he agreed to send representatives, and then eventually he turned up himself. Now since he ordered the murder of Thais he seems to want to talk again but the reds are quite rightly refusing. They stated their case, said what they want, the government said what they want, it reached a stalemate.

So now we have abhisit wanting to negotiate with terrorists, why? are they terrorists or are they not terrorists? What does he want to negotiate? the same time scale? No point in negotiating. His time is up, he is just delaying the inevitable and putting more lives at risk, but I suppose that is easy to do when you are sat in an army barracks basically not running the country.

Interesting point.... I honestly don't know except we must NOT give in anything to the terrorists and I am pretty sure all of us support that. Is the idea of the immediate government dissolution good sign for the terrorists? Or is it better to give six months to prepare for that dissolution sounds more safer security and cover all the issues to meet General Election's requirement and to prevent the unforeseen volience. In addition to that, I am bit curious why Red Shirts make that demand suddenly last month. Is it relating to the problem over Thaksin's verdict?

Open your eyes

What we need is Chaos in Thailand

Thai kill Thai

Then Super T can fly home and wit a wave of his Super arm all will be okay

But Then what ????????????????

[songhklasid]

Although I don't agree , maybe not sure anymore, but the simplest way out for all parties is for abhisit to stand down to prevent further bloodshed, surely that is reason enough

regards songhlkasid

Edited April 23, 2010 by songhklasid

[Maestro]

Explosions and protests in Bangkok

The business district of Thailand's capital is hit with explosions as thousands of protesters and troops converged on the area.

-- Reuters 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[humfurry]

All we are saying

and saying

and saying

and saying

is give peace a chance.

Better yet: Why can't we all get along?

Because we don't want to?

[ozzieman05]

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

Getting close now, if Team Yellow get their way and rig the reshuffle how they want, then there will never be another election.

There will be a coup once the reshuffle is done.

Then "New Politics" will be introduced where the government is 60% "appointed" and only 40% "elected" meaning never again will any elected Political Party be able to control the country, the country will forever be run by an "appointed" government majority.

Appointed by, well, the "old money" Elite, or Team Yellow for want of other words.

Many Thais say

It was safer in Thailand under the last Coup

Maybe its time for th army to save the country, we know democracy does not work

[jcbangkok]

Would like to get the Red Forum members opinion on this Thai Actor who was caught with weapons and has now confessed (according to the other English paper) to shooting at the soldiers on April 10, as instructed by the red leadership?

I will believe that when I hear it from his own mouth. Also I am not quite sure he is supposed to have said it was instructed by the red leaders.

A coerced confession, following on from the pathetic propaganda from the government and army. the saddest thing is that people actually believe all this. This must be the only country in the world where EVERYONE admits to the offence under police questioning We also know this police force could not find their own <deleted> with both hands yet we are expected to believe that people just readily admit to offences when questioned by them.

on the other hand if he is guilty then let him be dealt with.

The unmetnionabl;e news source has him as saying it was ordered by the UDD leadership

Cool, it must be true then or maybe they are just reporting what they were told, just like if someone told them there was life on Mars, they would report it without knowing if it is factual.

To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.

[culicine]

I think it is more to do with not allowing the dems to hold the military reshuffle, if a 'dem' general gets to head the army then it is hard for the reds in the future, and vice versa

Getting close now, if Team Yellow get their way and rig the reshuffle how they want, then there will never be another election.

There will be a coup once the reshuffle is done.

Then "New Politics" will be introduced where the government is 60% "appointed" and only 40% "elected" meaning never again will any elected Political Party be able to control the country, the country will forever be run by an "appointed" government majority.

Appointed by, well, the "old money" Elite, or Team Yellow for want of other words.

I keep hearing of these ELITE. Who are they please? Please...just 10 names... maybe I'll better understand why the reds hate them so much.

[elcent]

any news on Kasit after his spicy remarks in the USA?

[ozzieman05]

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

no goverment should be allowed to govern that has not been voted for ??

Ooops did you just step out of a time machine

This has been done to death and laid to rest

PLEASE RIP

[tonywebster]

To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.

Yes, it would be ignorant to believe everything that is written

[hammered]

All we are saying

and saying

and saying

and saying

is give peace a chance.

Better yet: Why can't we all get along?

Because we don't want to?

There is so so so much at stake for whoever comes out on top and a lot of it just isnt even being talked about. Talking about the power players here and not the people

[humfurry]

All we are saying

and saying

and saying

and saying

is give peace a chance.

Better yet: Why can't we all get along?

Because we don't want to?

There is so so so much at stake for whoever comes out on top and a lot of it just isnt even being talked about. Talking about the power players here and not the people

I can agree with you on that one.

[quiksilva]

YAWN... every MP was elected next!

But not every cabinet member. And if all it needs is to be elected to become the government then why bother having different parties, EVERY MP should be the government. Oh wait, that is why there are constituencies and the party that wins most seats normally manages to form the government, either outright or as a coalition. Considering the Dems did not win enough seats to manage to do either then we can assume that the voters did not want them in power, if the voters wanted them then they could have on an election . However the party that did win was disbanded for vote buying, the dems despite being guilty of vote buying were not disbanded, they simply took their money and BOUGHT coalition partners in order to get a majority in order to govern the country.

So despite the fact that every MP was elected, it is clear the current government were NOT elected, if they were we would not have this mess now.

If you had read the post he does not say the MPs were not elected, he says the government were not elected, maybe you should have answered that one rather than go off at a tangent.

Oh dear not again, look I am not going to waste energy by repeating what seems must be posted several times a day, just do a search, open your mind, clear your emotions (its not a personal attack) and allow this truth to sink in.

The government is not elected by the people, never has been, and its not unusual or peculiar to Thailand.

As for the Dems being disbanded you may well get your wish on that point next week, which may very well prove the best way out of the abyss we are all staring into.

Edited April 23, 2010 by quiksilva

[tonywebster]

YAWN... every MP was elected next!

But not every cabinet member. And if all it needs is to be elected to become the government then why bother having different parties, EVERY MP should be the government. Oh wait, that is why there are constituencies and the party that wins most seats normally manages to form the government, either outright or as a coalition. Considering the Dems did not win enough seats to manage to do either then we can assume that the voters did not want them in power, if the voters wanted them then they could have on an election . However the party that did win was disbanded for vote buying, the dems despite being guilty of vote buying were not disbanded, they simply took their money and BOUGHT coalition partners in order to get a majority in order to govern the country.

So despite the fact that every MP was elected, it is clear the current government were NOT elected, if they were we would not have this mess now.

If you had read the post he does not say the MPs were not elected, he says the government were not elected, maybe you should have answered that one rather than go off at a tangent.

Oh dear not again, the government is never elected by the people in Thailand.

Look I am not going to waste energy by repeating the electoral process as it seems this must be posted several times a day because many posters here flat out refuse to allow this truth to sink in.

As for the Dems being disbanded you may well get your wish on that point next week, which may very well prove the best way out of the abyss we are all staring into.

Well next week might be too soon. And you can not criticise people for questioning the ridiculous election procedures here.

[jcbangkok]

Foreign diplomats to visit rally site : Nuttawut

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Foreign envoys of 40 countries will visit the red shirts protesters at Rajprasong rally sites, red shirts leader Nuttawut Saikua said Friday.

The visit scheduled on 4pm clearly showed that the reds' fighting for democracy has been monitored by the international community.

Nuttawut said if PM Abhisit Vejjajiva wanted to disperse the red shirts protesters, he should have it done during the diplomats' visit.

He told the protesters to be a good host by cleaning up the rally sites from Lumpini Park to Ploenjit intersection to welcome the guests.

He said he would invite the diplomats to be on stage during the visit.

-- The Nation 2010-04-23

Do these diplomats realize what danger they would be in ? It would be like going into a hungry lions cage!

The reds have already proved they are a bunch of blood thirsty revolutionary's against ruling elitists.

But it could work out quite well for the governments image if the reds kidnap or even harm some diplomats, as this would perhaps bring world attention to the reds true colours (pun intended)

I am not so sure I would take too much stock in what red leaders say ... they have said many things that have just been way off and untrue.