Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[ThailandLovr]

Abhisit: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."

See last news release.

Edited April 23, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[bkkjames]

The predicament is Thaksin's determined attempt to seize state power.

Not that he is making anything other than a complete mess of the attempt.

Chaos and mayhem are his only achievements so far.

What can the reds do next?

A few more escalations leading to deaths?

Ultimately a dead-end street.

Numbers shrinking and holed up in shopping centres?

Nowhere to go.

Yep and I wonder if the there has been an all in presented to veera, nuttawut and co?

Time will tell but with pm making statements now that look like he has had enough, something is bubbling me thinks.

Were both camps handed this way out?

[rabo]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Go and check your head before posting because you have no idea what is going on right now, you don't know what makes sense and for the f. sake there is democracy already! What kind of democracy do you expect from the red shirts? Do you expect Thailand to be a republic??? Or Thailand being governed by totalitarian leaders, instead of making people equal reach they would make all people equal poor. Wake up dude, you are dreaming.

Methinks you're the one who is dreaming. 'Governed by totalitarian leaders'??? What do you think is the situation right now? Do you seriously think that Abhisit is truly the person in control? It's not without some irony that all of the stories of the UDD being funded by Thaksin seem to have disappeared. Nobody in full control of their senses would acknowledge that anymore. Ultimately there is a very large segment of the population (don't forget, PT still have more representatives in Parliament than the Democrats) whom are tired of their democratic rights being abused, and are equally tired of a very small minority of the Thai population using their influence to circumvent the democratic and judicial processes. Sure, there are extremists on both sides, but ultimately until the current Government attempted to use force, the UDD protest was (in relative terms) peaceful. Compare that to 2008 with the antics of the PAD. Did the Government at that time attempt to close down ASTV? No, they maintained the right of the media. What a contradiction with the current bunch of hypocrites.

Straight out of a young western liberal guide book, probably east coast America.

These people have been living in a benevolent Kingdom for 1000 years. They just recently were introduced to a constitutional monarchy. There culture is even older than all that. Hear it all the time "I'm Thai! Don't step on my democratic rights! My rights are guaranteed by the constitution, krup! Som Nam Naa!"

Me thinks you are stuck in your western frame of mind.

[pagallim]

Pagallim, I think those video calls from Thaksin each night on the Red's big screen speaks volumes about Dr. Thaksin. And a certain sms he most likely sent during the talks. C'mon man.

If you PM me, I'll give you my mobile number and you can forward me the SMS. I'll repeat my previous comments, it's not Thaksin per se for the UDD, it's what he represents. He gave hope for a better future for millions of Thais, and unfortunately that void since he left hasn't been filled (apologies for an element of Root Cause Analysis there).

Cart before the horse.

What he represents is the paymaster.

Its his show.

He calls the tune.

And he calls the shots.

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that. So where's the money coming from? I read a week or so ago about a UDD member in Phuket who sold his car so he could travel to BKK and join the protests. It's just too easy to blame Thaksin. The problem isn't Thaksin, it's the system that has allowed the ever widening social divide that currently exists in Thailand. The Democrats/PAD represent the status quo, i.e. go back to 'the sticks' and continue your miserable life which your children will inherit. Until there's a cohesive policy of national unity, based on every individuals worth and value for contribution, there will be no change.

[way2muchcoffee]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that. So where's the money coming from? I read a week or so ago about a UDD member in Phuket who sold his car so he could travel to BKK and join the protests. It's just too easy to blame Thaksin. The problem isn't Thaksin, it's the system that has allowed the ever widening social divide that currently exists in Thailand. The Democrats/PAD represent the status quo, i.e. go back to 'the sticks' and continue your miserable life which your children will inherit. Until there's a cohesive policy of national unity, based on every individuals worth and value for contribution, there will be no change.

Cost estimates at the peak, with nearly 100,000 protesters, was 30,000,000 bt per day. Multiply this by 40 days and you get 1.2 billion baht. Wasn't Thaksin just given back some 30 billion baht?

[whiterussian]

You're correct, the Army isn't the PAD, and isn't the ruling coalition. The question (bottom line), is whom is controlling either? The Army certainly doesn't seem to be controlled by the current Government, and the obvious absence of Sondhi Limthongkul in terms of either issued statements or attendance of PAD scheduled meetings is almost as bewildering as Abhisit's lack of political and national leadership.

Bottom line, Abhisit should make an exception and demonstrate at least some form of statesmanship, and dissolve Parliament. Problem is that he's not the one calling the shots, and is only having his strings pulled by others whom are playing for time to obtain the best advantage that they can. The Democrats have been unable to form a legitimate government for the last 18 years, and they know that the next election will see them out again (always supposing that they, as a party, survive the EC's decision to recommend dissolution, which, all things being equal, is highly unlikely).

HaHa made me laugh good post!!

pagallim for prime minister!

poor old Abhisit, wish he could jump ship if the reds win.

Edited April 23, 2010 by whiterussian

[commons]

Methinks you're the one who is dreaming. 'Governed by totalitarian leaders'??? What do you think is the situation right now? Do you seriously think that Abhisit is truly the person in control? It's not without some irony that all of the stories of the UDD being funded by Thaksin seem to have disappeared. Nobody in full control of their senses would acknowledge that anymore. Ultimately there is a very large segment of the population (don't forget, PT still have more representatives in Parliament than the Democrats) whom are tired of their democratic rights being abused, and are equally tired of a very small minority of the Thai population using their influence to circumvent the democratic and judicial processes. Sure, there are extremists on both sides, but ultimately until the current Government attempted to use force, the UDD protest was (in relative terms) peaceful. Compare that to 2008 with the antics of the PAD. Did the Government at that time attempt to close down ASTV? No, they maintained the right of the media. What a contradiction with the current bunch of hypocrites.

i'm sorry, i dislike lies.

1) you say, " It's not without some irony that all of the stories of the UDD being funded by Thaksin seem to have disappeared." - oh really? actually it starts to appear in intl media. do your own research. Actually, I do. The UDD are usually referred to as supporter of Thaksin, not that he is funding them.

-

2) you say, "Sure, there are extremists on both sides, but ultimately until the current Government attempted to use force, the UDD protest was (in relative terms) peaceful." - plain spin. Really, please give me an example. You should have been a weaver/

2a) btw, in case you never heard about it, gov all around the globe are entitled to use force. it's one of the categories that characterizes "government" - sovereignity to use force. never heard of that before, right? Of course. You may wish to cast your mind back to the events of 10th April, and the initial confrontation at the satellite earth station. You remember that one? Where the Army abandoned it's arms (found to have contained live rounds, not blanks), and the subsequent admission by the military that the Army were indeed carrying live rounds rather than the rubber bullets/tear gas that they originally claimed? It took well publicised YouTube video to coerce that statement from the military. Anyway, who/why/when can be disputed. Oh, and I've been personally involved in civil disturbance control, and am aware of the norms of what is acceptable or not.

2b) your narrative is _false_, in terms it does not match unfolding of events _prior_ to apr10th and _not_ to events unfolding day of apr10th.

Sorry, you need to provide me with an example, and in perhaps better grammar than you are using.

nope.

uiiih, you're excited na?

you still got it according to your perception & you're still incapable to integrate divergent media.

-

btw, thanks, i'm not a native english speaker. i always like people who come out to speak of "grammar"; next argument will be related to "hitler", chai mai?

-

in case you don't get it: YOUR NARRATIVE OF EVENTS PRIOR TO APR10TH & OF EVENTS ON APR10TH IS WRONG!

so you publicly advocate red shirts storming thai-com station was "right"? that's what you state here?

you publicly advocate red shirts trying to storm army-base during apr10th was "right"? you saw the pics?

you publicly state, apr10th night, it _was_ army that instigated mayhem?

*

i haven't responded to your claim about ASTV in 2008. did they broadcast enticement to burn, kill, intimidate? to wage war on a gov? i guess you call that "freedom of speech", right? as long as grammar is correct.

[Thai at Heart]

Bottom line, Abhisit should make an exception and demonstrate at least some form of statesmanship, and dissolve Parliament. Problem is that he's not the one calling the shots, and is only having his strings pulled by others whom are playing for time to obtain the best advantage that they can. The Democrats have been unable to form a legitimate government for the last 18 years, and they know that the next election will see them out again (always supposing that they, as a party, survive the EC's decision to recommend dissolution, which, all things being equal, is highly unlikely).

HaHa made me laugh good post!!

pagallim for prime minister!

poor old Abhisit, wish he could jump ship if the reds win.

If he keeps going like this, he may be the guy who Newin calls for a few extra seats to get in, just to make sure that Thaksin's bunch can't get back in.

And don't say it will NEVER happen. Remember where we are. TIT after all.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[pagallim]

You're correct, the Army isn't the PAD, and isn't the ruling coalition. The question (bottom line), is whom is controlling either? The Army certainly doesn't seem to be controlled by the current Government, and the obvious absence of Sondhi Limthongkul in terms of either issued statements or attendance of PAD scheduled meetings is almost as bewildering as Abhisit's lack of political and national leadership.

Bottom line, Abhisit should make an exception and demonstrate at least some form of statesmanship, and dissolve Parliament. Problem is that he's not the one calling the shots, and is only having his strings pulled by others whom are playing for time to obtain the best advantage that they can. The Democrats have been unable to form a legitimate government for the last 18 years, and they know that the next election will see them out again (always supposing that they, as a party, survive the EC's decision to recommend dissolution, which, all things being equal, is highly unlikely).

HaHa made me laugh good post!!

pagallim for prime minister!

poor old Abhisit, wish he could jump ship if the reds win.

Spasheeba.

[coralia]

Since everybody agrees that the country is divided, couldn't they just divide it?... We could have one Southern Thailand with Bangkok as the capital, and one Northern Thailand with Chiang Mai as the capital... and that would make life so much easier for those who have to do visa runs !!!

[commons]

Sorry, perhaps you misunderstood me. I referred to the Government during the PAD disturbances of 2008, of which (at least to my recollection) Thaksin was not a member.

I didn't misunderstand. I said "Thaksin and his proxy parties".

I understood that, you've been watching too much ASTV. I'm actually quite impartial, and like to play 'Devil's Advocate'. Unfortunately, the more that I read and research, the more that I conclude that Thaksin represents a step change to the 'Establishment', and they use him in every context, whether it's warranted or not, as a symbol of evil. I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again. That said, he did provide hope for a large proportion of the population, and did a substantial amount of good for the country (albeit in a heavy handed way).

i'm sorry, i start to feel dizzy when apologetics of a 21st-century "unfriendly" "corporate take over" start to share poetry with me.

if you've some time, would you please be so kind to share your analysis what/when/how Thaksin did [yes, you're impartial. yes, he has nothing to do with current situation, etc. yes, you stated it...]. "and did a substantial amount of good for the country"

OH REALLY? which country?

[jcbangkok]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that.

Are you kidding? He is a multi billionaire (in US dollars). Although many of these reds are paid they are then both guilted into remaining as well as being brainwashed (all day long they hear propaganda and lies from their leaders on stage) and given promises of wealth upon their win and Thaksin getting his frozen assets back. Keep in mind Thaksin has a great deal of money that was not frozen and I remember reading reports that after the verdict there were significant portions of the remaining funds (not in the judgement) that were withdrawn.

This guy is running all around the globe paying people off for asylum and making investments. He probably has a heck of lot more than any of us could imagine in Swiss bank accounts. This was one crooked dude. Remember he started out as a Thai policeman.

However, interesting article about his perceived diminishing wealth. Not sure of the date of the article though ... http://www.plushasia.com/article/1353

Edited April 23, 2010 by jcbangkok

[djayz]

I took the Skytrain this afternoon (approx. 3:30) from Ploen Chit to Victory Monument and noticed an announcement made by the Skytrain personnel, once in Thai and then in English. As I've only lived in Thailand since December 2009 I couldn't understand the announcement in Thai but I found the English announcement very interesting and confusing. First they listed the various stations that were closed (eg. Silom, etc) "due to animal disease control" ?!?!?!?!?! Does anybody know if they also used this "excuse" in Thai? I'm asking this just out of curiosity.

[Thai at Heart]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that.

Are you kidding? He is a multi billionaire (in US dollars). Although many of these reds are paid they are then both guilted into remaining as well as being brainwashed (all day long they hear propaganda and lies from their leaders on stage) and given promises of wealth upon their win and Thaksin getting his frozen assets back. Keep in mind Thaksin has a great deal of money that was not frozen and I remember reading reports that after the verdict there were significant portions of the remaining funds (not in the judgement) that were withdrawn.

This guy is running all around the globe paying people off for asylum and making investments. He probably has a heck of lot more than any of us could imagine in Swiss bank accounts. This was one crooked dude. Remember he started out as a Thai policeman.

However, interesting article about his perceived diminishing wealth. Not sure of the date of the article though ... http://www.plushasia.com/article/1353

The date on the article is 23/10/2010.

I am amazed that NONE of the other papers got hold of this one.

On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin's whereabouts has been kept secret. But he is now believed to be operating out of Delhi as his headquarters.

"Interestingly, Thaksin appears to have strong links with India via a powerful agent in Delhi. He has established a base there and, in my view, that connection will prove his strongest international connection. It is close to Thailand, it is where he has the freedom to operate politically, it is a free-wheeling money market/investment climate and I guess no extradition treaty with Thailand," the international financier said.

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

by The Nation, Asia News Network|23 April 2010

Where was this hiding in the Nation? As for the report itself, once again the story of the Brits having hold of countless billions of Thaksin's money, without a peep from the British press. Hmmmmm............

I guess he is delayed by the volcanic cloud somewhere. Maybe an old article with a "current" date put on it.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[jcbangkok]

Since everybody agrees that the country is divided, couldn't they just divide it?... We could have one Southern Thailand with Bangkok as the capital, and one Northern Thailand with Chiang Mai as the capital... and that would make life so much easier for those who have to do visa runs !!!

Except the reason it is divided is because the North wants those in BKK to give them more handouts. They cannot survive up north without BKK regardless that they are already given cash handouts, free medical and schooling as well as exemption from most all taxes and subsidies for their farming. The problem is also that they simply want handouts or loans (like under Thaksin) they cannot ever repay to their local leaders who are mostly all corrupt and make BKK politicians and police look like saints ... but more to the point is they don't demand, ask or try to obtain anything that would give them prosperity in the long run. Not to mention these reds are just plain morons who don't understand that in every country those who live well outside the city are generally not nearly as well off as the city and suburb dwellers or that farming is a tough road in most countries now. There are no family farmers in the US anymore making a living .. if they are, they are being smart about what they are growing and likely getting a lot of help from the government to grow.

[pagallim]

nope.

uiiih, you're excited na?

you still got it according to your perception & you're still incapable to integrate divergent media.

-

btw, thanks, i'm not a native english speaker. i always like people who come out to speak of "grammar"; next argument will be related to "hitler", chai mai?

-

in case you don't get it: YOUR NARRATIVE OF EVENTS PRIOR TO APR10TH & OF EVENTS ON APR10TH IS WRONG!

so you publicly advocate red shirts storming thai-com station was "right"? that's what you state here?

you publicly advocate red shirts trying to storm army-base during apr10th was "right"? you saw the pics?

you publicly state, apr10th night, it _was_ army that instigated mayhem?

*

i haven't responded to your claim about ASTV in 2008. did they broadcast enticement to burn, kill, intimidate? to wage war on a gov? i guess you call that "freedom of speech", right? as long as grammar is correct.

I appreciate you're not being a native English speaker. My reference to grammar was 'tongue in cheek'.

However, to answer some of your points:

Yes, I believe that the demonstration at Thai Com was justified. A previously legitimate media channel had been taken off the air (hence my reference to the continuance of ASTV during 2008). The violence that occurred there was as a result of the Army's decision to disperse, firing of live rounds etc.

The Army Base fiasco was an emotive attempt to stop the propaganda war.

The night of 10th April? I don't know if it will eventually be revealed, but my recollection of events was that nothing happened until the Army attempted to disperse the protesters. Tragic consequences though there were, it would have been better to have done what they were doing previously, i.e. containment and not provocation.

OK, you actually watched PTV, and personally heard/saw these provocative remarks, or are you reading some editorial comment from the Nation or Bangkok Post? The Thais that I know who were watching it didn't seem to pick up on those kind of remarks.

[lensta]

Since everybody agrees that the country is divided, couldn't they just divide it?... We could have one Southern Thailand with Bangkok as the capital, and one Northern Thailand with Chiang Mai as the capital... and that would make life so much easier for those who have to do visa runs !!!

Even better, divide it into 3, the South for the Muslims, Central for PAD etc and the North for the Reds. We would also need a DMZ between each area.

Edited April 23, 2010 by lensta

[tim73]

I understood that, you've been watching too much ASTV. I'm actually quite impartial, and like to play 'Devil's Advocate'. Unfortunately, the more that I read and research, the more that I conclude that Thaksin represents a step change to the 'Establishment', and they use him in every context, whether it's warranted or not, as a symbol of evil. I think it inconceivable that were Thaksin to return to Thailand, that he would choose to enter politics again. That said, he did provide hope for a large proportion of the population, and did a substantial amount of good for the country (albeit in a heavy handed way).

Luckily, there are no serious independence movements. THAT is the main difference between Yugoslavia in the early 90's and Thailand now. So everybody is still fighting within the context of Thailand, not against it. In Yugoslavia the Serbian leaders rallied everybody and their dogs around the Serbian flag and it just went out of control there, more or less deliberately. BUT it took only few years in Yugoslavia from "united we stand" to all out civil war...

[jcbangkok]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that.

Are you kidding? He is a multi billionaire (in US dollars). Although many of these reds are paid they are then both guilted into remaining as well as being brainwashed (all day long they hear propaganda and lies from their leaders on stage) and given promises of wealth upon their win and Thaksin getting his frozen assets back. Keep in mind Thaksin has a great deal of money that was not frozen and I remember reading reports that after the verdict there were significant portions of the remaining funds (not in the judgement) that were withdrawn.

This guy is running all around the globe paying people off for asylum and making investments. He probably has a heck of lot more than any of us could imagine in Swiss bank accounts. This was one crooked dude. Remember he started out as a Thai policeman.

However, interesting article about his perceived diminishing wealth. Not sure of the date of the article though ... http://www.plushasia.com/article/1353

The date on the article is 23/10/2010.

I am amazed that NONE of the other papers got hold of this one.

On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin's whereabouts has been kept secret. But he is now believed to be operating out of Delhi as his headquarters.

"Interestingly, Thaksin appears to have strong links with India via a powerful agent in Delhi. He has established a base there and, in my view, that connection will prove his strongest international connection. It is close to Thailand, it is where he has the freedom to operate politically, it is a free-wheeling money market/investment climate and I guess no extradition treaty with Thailand," the international financier said.

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

by The Nation, Asia News Network|23 April 2010

Where was this hiding in the Nation? As for the report itself, once again the story of the Brits having hold of countless billions of Thaksin's money, without a peep from the British press. Hmmmmm............

I guess he is delayed by the volcanic cloud somewhere. Maybe an old article with a "current" date put on it.

The UK thing threw me for a loop too and made me wonder if this was an older story that I missed. But I finally saw the date on the article ...

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

by The Nation, Asia News Network|23 April 2010

not sure how I missed that before. hmmm, maybe the OP in this thread has a point and it would certainly help explain why the red army is so determined to get the reds back in power asap. Also might explain why the gov't is holding out on doing anything since I am sure a lot of the money being promised to the reds is just that ... promises. Be interesting what would happen if Thaksin doesn't pay them.

But bottom line, looks like we are the first to be privy to this article. I actually found it while doing a google search on Thaksin's wealth to get a figure for what he is worth.

[Harry2]

At present it looks like the army has dictated a deal to both sides.

Hope so, a peaceful end to the democracy protests together with fresh elections should lower the temperature.

If the spirit of compromise were to extend to both sides respecting the results, that might be the basis for both a better democracy & a better society.

[4223rhodes]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that. So where's the money coming from? I read a week or so ago about a UDD member in Phuket who sold his car so he could travel to BKK and join the protests. It's just too easy to blame Thaksin. The problem isn't Thaksin, it's the system that has allowed the ever widening social divide that currently exists in Thailand. The Democrats/PAD represent the status quo, i.e. go back to 'the sticks' and continue your miserable life which your children will inherit. Until there's a cohesive policy of national unity, based on every individuals worth and value for contribution, there will be no change.

Cost estimates at the peak, with nearly 100,000 protesters, was 30,000,000 bt per day. Multiply this by 40 days and you get 1.2 billion baht. Wasn't Thaksin just given back some 30 billion baht?

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

[melbpete]

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

The problem isn't how rich Thaksin is.

The problem is how he got rich, and particularly, how much richer he got WHILE HE WAS PM.

[Tanaka]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

You, this forum is meant for adults, not immature 12-year-olds! So please go read a book or look at your tv. But spare us your illogical rant.

[4223rhodes]

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

The problem isn't how rich Thaksin is.

The problem is how he got rich, and particularly, how much richer he got WHILE HE WAS PM.

Thaksin isn't the problem and ultimately he's not the solution. He's been martyred by a very violent elite headed by Abhisit. When Abhisit goes, a solution will be possible. Thaksin is small potatoes in this struggle for equality and abolition.

[moskito]

ohhhh dam_n, you think Bush and Rumpsfeld are involved in all what happend? :D

maybe they should go for the Kennedy solution

Maybe you would be more comfortable with the Baader-Meinhof solution.

thats not what i meant neighbor

I know only there is someboTy out of the country constantly trying to give the ppl some...lets call it unrest.

If I got a moskito in my house which bites me know and then, I try to catch him, or

[jcbangkok]

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

The problem isn't how rich Thaksin is.

The problem is how he got rich, and particularly, how much richer he got WHILE HE WAS PM.

Thaksin isn't the problem and ultimately he's not the solution. He's been martyred by a very violent elite headed by Abhisit. When Abhisit goes, a solution will be possible. Thaksin is small potatoes in this struggle for equality and abolition.

The equality lacking in capitalism? The abolition of democracy?

Bottom line, if Thaksin were to drop dead today, the current unruly mob holding BKK hostage would evaporate.

Edited April 23, 2010 by jcbangkok

[commons]

{quote.on}

nope.

uiiih, you're excited na?

you still got it according to your perception & you're still incapable to integrate divergent media.

-

btw, thanks, i'm not a native english speaker. i always like people who come out to speak of "grammar"; next argument will be related to "hitler", chai mai?

-

in case you don't get it: YOUR NARRATIVE OF EVENTS PRIOR TO APR10TH & OF EVENTS ON APR10TH IS WRONG!

so you publicly advocate red shirts storming thai-com station was "right"? that's what you state here?

you publicly advocate red shirts trying to storm army-base during apr10th was "right"? you saw the pics?

you publicly state, apr10th night, it _was_ army that instigated mayhem?

*

i haven't responded to your claim about ASTV in 2008. did they broadcast enticement to burn, kill, intimidate? to wage war on a gov? i guess you call that "freedom of speech", right? as long as grammar is correct.

{quote.off}

I appreciate you're not being a native English speaker. My reference to grammar was 'tongue in cheek'.

However, to answer some of your points:

Yes, I believe that the demonstration at Thai Com was justified. A previously legitimate media channel had been taken off the air (hence my reference to the continuance of ASTV during 2008). The violence that occurred there was as a result of the Army's decision to disperse, firing of live rounds etc.

The Army Base fiasco was an emotive attempt to stop the propaganda war.

The night of 10th April? I don't know if it will eventually be revealed, but my recollection of events was that nothing happened until the Army attempted to disperse the protesters. Tragic consequences though there were, it would have been better to have done what they were doing previously, i.e. containment and not provocation.

OK, you actually watched PTV, and personally heard/saw these provocative remarks, or are you reading some editorial comment from the Nation or Bangkok Post? The Thais that I know who were watching it didn't seem to pick up on those kind of remarks.

you've some inclination for suffering, right?

1) you say, "Yes, I believe that the demonstration at Thai Com was justified. A previously legitimate media channel had been taken off the air (hence my reference to the continuance of ASTV during 2008). "

1a) it was not a "demonstration", whom are you fooling. it was a trespassing of property intent to achieve specific goals - "let's get our hate voice back on air". you're publicly advocating violence.

1b) "A previously legitimate media channel had been taken off the air " - which one? what you claim to be a "legitimate media channel"; another one distributing hate, enticing violence, burning down bkk, war against gov? something like this?

-

2) you say, publicly, "The violence that occurred there was as a result of the Army's decision to disperse, firing of live rounds etc." you say army fired live rounds while trying to defend thai-com? that's what you said, right?

-

3) you say, "The Army Base fiasco was an emotive attempt to stop the propaganda war. "

oh really? may i ask, what's an "emotive attempt"? you saw the pics?

so you say, it was ok, "an emotive attempt", but when soldiers came out to disperse crowd - that was "BAD BAD BAD", right?

so, force lies with mafia-clan that's able to inflict bullying violence - but _not_ with "sovereign gov", right?

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4) you say, "The night of 10th April? I don't know if it will eventually be revealed, but my recollection of events was that nothing happened until the Army attempted to disperse the protesters. Tragic consequences though there were, it would have been better to have done what they were doing previously, i.e. containment and not provocation."

you said before, you know it all & you know it all very well. you've access to intl media etc.

i don't f***g care about "your recollections" when you come into a public forum & claim stuff you did before. now, you're backstepping.

NO, GUY! IT WAS NOT ARMY THAT TRIGGERED EVENTS OF APR10TH NIGHT! there's plenty of material available online. army went in for containment - @ came under attack. you still wanna deny that?

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5) you say, "OK, you actually watched PTV, and personally heard/saw these provocative remarks, or are you reading some editorial comment from the Nation or Bangkok Post? The Thais that I know who were watching it didn't seem to pick up on those kind of remarks."

no, i do not. there's plenty of live-translations, twitter-feeds available.

tss tss... "the thais you know"...

*

see you around

[melbpete]

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

The problem isn't how rich Thaksin is.

The problem is how he got rich, and particularly, how much richer he got WHILE HE WAS PM.

Thaksin isn't the problem and ultimately he's not the solution. He's been martyred by a very violent elite headed by Abhisit. When Abhisit goes, a solution will be possible. Thaksin is small potatoes in this struggle for equality and abolition.

Then why has Thaksin been so much part of the red protest and the previous red governments (Samak and Somchai)?

Abhisit has got nothing to do with the reds carrying Thaksin posters and listening to his call in's (although he has been quiet. is the cancer rumour true, or are the reds realizing how much a liability he is, even though he is funding this campaign).

If Abhisit had been violent this would have been over about 6 weeks ago (before it started).

If Thaksin hadn't put his big square face into this from the start, and the protests were really about the poor and democracy, they would have had huge support. As it was, everyone (both sides) knew it was all about Thaksin, and even a lot of people in the N/NE didn't support it.

This is now just a minority group of thugs trying to bring down an elected government.

[commons]

Considering the number of people involved, and the duration, even Thaksin doesn't have the means to fund that. So where's the money coming from? I read a week or so ago about a UDD member in Phuket who sold his car so he could travel to BKK and join the protests. It's just too easy to blame Thaksin. The problem isn't Thaksin, it's the system that has allowed the ever widening social divide that currently exists in Thailand. The Democrats/PAD represent the status quo, i.e. go back to 'the sticks' and continue your miserable life which your children will inherit. Until there's a cohesive policy of national unity, based on every individuals worth and value for contribution, there will be no change.

Cost estimates at the peak, with nearly 100,000 protesters, was 30,000,000 bt per day. Multiply this by 40 days and you get 1.2 billion baht. Wasn't Thaksin just given back some 30 billion baht?

The richest man in Thailand has well over 10 times Thaksin's wealth (at Thaksin's peak wealth). Many of the richest men and one very important lady are Thaksin's enemies and are flooding their riches upon the Army and PAD against Thaksin, but more importantly, against the average Thai. The average Thais are well aware of this and they are pissed.

i'm glad to meet another farang, entitled to know, understand & speak for "the average thai" 555

[WildDave99]

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

An immediate General Election is the answer but if the PM is so confident that the people of Thailand are behind him what has he to loose.. NOTHING... but he has everything to gain .. A country reunited and the Red-shirsts have already pledged that they will accept the outcome of a general election..

Why is he so chicken hearted .. or is his yellow colour a thick stripe down the centre of his back...?

Why would you suppose that a group that holds an unlawful, violent assembly to bring down a government would not create similar mayhem during an election. You can't forsee threats to blowup polling places likely to vote for non PTP candidates? You can't see mobs showing up to block legitimate campaign gatherings? If you're honest with yourself I think you can see those very types of things occuring and more. You just can't hold elections in this climate. If that means this government falls to the military if it can't affect a solution, then so be it. There's no democracy to be had here if this government doesn't hold the line.

With regards to your comments I suggest that you should throw them out with the rest of your rubbish.

Firstly the protestors themselves tried to stay peaceful and have basically only retailated when provoked by a force sent against them by an undemocratical government, the government do not hold the majority of the electorate as of the last general election but voted themselves into powerafterr the collapse of the last democratically elected government - that is when a General Election should rightly have been call according to the principles of democracy.

The violence however has either been started by opposition to the UDD movement or a small break-away faction trying to create anarchy within the country. As regards unlawful any government can rush through emergency legisalion and change the playing field, when the red-shirts commenced their campaign they were not breaking the law, the government changed the playing field in an attempt to remove the embarrasement the UDD movement was creating for them.

As for your absurd acquations relating to the election process may I refer you the the mostly peaceful and orderly way the electon ran in 2007 here in Thailand. I can see your answer is simply to have the military take over the government and rule the country again .. Not really the correct answer.

Finally as for democracy in Thailand I would agree that it doesn't exist her in Thailand whilst ever the present government is in power as they were not democratically elected to rule ....