Air Conditioning No Longer Cool / Cold

[rexnong]

Can anyone help , i have a Hitachi 9000btu which worked great for about 18 months in our bedroom but for the last 6 months it dosent seem to get the room cool like before

It was last cleaned 2 weeks ago and all topped up by the local air con company

The stores dont /wont listen and say ah yes you need a new air con unit as your room needs a bigger unit although it worked great before and we never set it lower than 25c on automatic when it would switch on and off

Now we leave it on 16 fan 3 flat out and it dosent do much at all

If you put your hand near the fan area it feels o.k but not like before

The unit has always been serviced and topped up full every 3-4 months but talking to the stores they just want to sell a new inverter air conditioner and dont listen to one word about the problem ?

Anyone can help would be great

Unless its down to the Hitachi Brand and it being over 2 years old?

i have a temperature gage in the bedroom and its reading 35.1c on a 16c fan 3 setting

must be a part that need changing as its regualarly serviced ?

[chiang mai]

If anything it sounds as though your unit has been over serviced and most likely some-thing's got broken in the process, air con units really only need servicing once a year - the obvious things to check are that the coil is clean, the case is intact, the fan rotates freely and that the gas is above the required level (the gas only needs topping up infrequently). Other than those things it's all down to the electronics, sensors and the like, you might want to try getting the unit serviced by a different company?

Edited April 24, 2010 by chiang mai

[lopburi3]

They are cleaning the outside unit? As for "top-up" that should not normally be required unless there is a leak as the air conditioner is a closed system. How good is there cleaning? Normally the problem will be dirty fins if not cooling well and coolant level is good. Are they using detergent and power cleaner?

[richardt1808]

as you may have realised, we are in the middle of a tremendous heatwave at the moment, so if your roof is not insulated or you have direct sunlight on the walls, your room will need additional cooling power. Also, check that all windows and doors are sealed to keep the cool air in. Finally, having the fan on high will not necessarily give you the coolest airflow, since the air spends less time while passing over the cooling fins, so there is less time for temperature transfer.

[beach]

They are cleaning the outside unit? As for "top-up" that should not normally be required unless there is a leak as the air conditioner is a closed system. How good is there cleaning? Normally the problem will be dirty fins if not cooling well and coolant level is good. Are they using detergent and power cleaner?

There are several things involved in a AC System where the company should look at:

a) compressor at the condensing unit (outdoor)

leakage of refrigderant in the system

c) dirty refridgerant pipes (copper)

d) cheap insualtion around these pipes (usual loss is up to 35%)

e) dirty condensing unit

f) dirty fan coil unit (inside the room)

What you have to do is to find a reliable AC company where you live and work properly and honestly.

Of course it costs some money but it's worth it

Good luck

[grandpa-m]

hello, had the same problem one time and found out that the grand-son was messing with the remote control and had changed some of the settings , check it out that mat be your problem it sovled mine .

[khunjake]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with your Aircon. The cooling unit capacitor has blown out! If your aircon still turns on but is just blowing hot air then this is where the problem is. Cleaning the Aircon will only fix a water leak and provides a bit better air filtration. You don't need to talk to an Aircon vendor as of course they will tell you that it is broken and too buy a new one Find yourself a trustworthy handyman and they will know exactly what to do. Hope this helps.

[yogi100]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with your Aircon. The cooling unit capacitor has blown out! If your aircon still turns on but is just blowing hot air then this is where the problem is. Cleaning the Aircon will only fix a water leak and provides a bit better air filtration. You don't need to talk to an Aircon vendor as of course they will tell you that it is broken and too buy a new one Find yourself a trustworthy handyman and they will know exactly what to do. Hope this helps.

Just what I thought Jake. My guesthouse unit is ten years old and the lad who repairs it knows his onions and after he's worked his magic it pumps out lovely cold air. He's changed the capacitor on two occasions. Although I rent the room I always tip him. Get a new repair man who knows what he's doing and keep his phone number!

[khunjake]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with your Aircon. The cooling unit capacitor has blown out! If your aircon still turns on but is just blowing hot air then this is where the problem is. Cleaning the Aircon will only fix a water leak and provides a bit better air filtration. You don't need to talk to an Aircon vendor as of course they will tell you that it is broken and too buy a new one Find yourself a trustworthy handyman and they will know exactly what to do. Hope this helps.

Just what I thought Jake. My guesthouse unit is ten years old and the lad who repairs it knows his onions and after he's worked his magic it pumps out lovely cold air. He's changed the capacitor on two occasions. Although I rent the room I always tip him. Get a new repair man who knows what he's doing and keep his phone number!

Yes.. It will look something like this which is located in the upper left or right corner of the cooling unit which is located on the exterior of your house. It will likely be a 30 or 45 micro-farad capacitor. You can buy these from any decent electrical outlet for about 300-500 baht but I would NOT recommend getting involved in this type of repair unless one knows exactly what they are doing. You will need a voltmeter and some know how to ensure that the repair is done properly. Cheers.

[fredob43]

You dont say how big the room is your trying to cool but 9000btu is not very powerful my smallest bed room has a floor area of 15 sq mt standard hight and have fitted 13000btu A/C at this time of the year it cope's ok. My lounge I was told needed a 250000 btu A/C I fitted 330000 btu cope's more than well. Full power for 20min then down to tick over, Tip ask what they think you need then fit one that's more powerful. Will last forever. And cope with all eventuality's.

[InterestedObserver]

The OP said the unit worked great for about 18 months, having no problem maintaining 25c on auto. I thought the current problem was insufficient cooling, not a failure to operate. A bad capacitor would render the unit inoperable. If the compressor and condenser fan are both operating normally, then the capacitor(s) should be ok. Or am I missing something here.

[david96]

If the compressor and fans are running it is possible that you have lost refrigerant and have a leak in the system.

You should not have to "top up" as you say with refrigerant every 3 or 4 months.

[lopburi3]

Cleaning the Aircon will only fix a water leak and provides a bit better air filtration.

It can make a huge difference in the efficiency and amount of cooling of a unit. Getting the dirt off the cooling fins provides a much better heat exchange. Keeping the filters clean will also provide a much better air flow. But when we are talking about cleaning the airconditioner we are speaking of high pressure water/detergent cleaning - not cosmetic cleaning.

[elkangorito]

From the 1st post:

The unit has always been serviced and topped up full every 3-4 months but talking to the stores they just want to sell a new inverter air conditioner and dont listen to one word about the problem?

If the compressor and fans are running it is possible that you have lost refrigerant and have a leak in the system.

You should not have to "top up" as you say with refrigerant every 3 or 4 months.

I would suggest that David's advice is 'spot on'. In other words, get the very obvious gas leak fixed & sack your old air con guys for not initially identifying the problem.

The only maintenance that needs to be carried out on typical 'home' airconditioning units is:

1] Clean the filter(s), which can be done by yourself.

2] Annually inspect the fans, coils, pipework & compressor for any possible problems.

Edited April 25, 2010 by elkangorito

[oldgit]

If the compressor and fans are running it is possible that you have lost refrigerant and have a leak in the system.

You should not have to "top up" as you say with refrigerant every 3 or 4 months.

If you have a refrigerant leak,the suction line (in your case,it will be 1/2 inch dia.) leaving the outdoor unit will be iced up.Make a visual check yourself. A bad service engineer can cause all sorts of problems so get it checked out by a company with a good reputation.

[GungaDin]

Call in a new service guy. Someone long established in the community.

Talk to your neighbours, who do they use for servicing.

You're going 'round in circles talking to vendors & wasting your time.

Edited April 25, 2010 by GungaDin

[Naam]

You dont say how big the room is your trying to cool but 9000btu is not very powerful my smallest bed room has a floor area of 15 sq mt standard hight and have fitted 13000btu A/C at this time of the year it cope's ok. My lounge I was told needed a 250000 btu A/C I fitted 330000 btu cope's more than well. Full power for 20min then down to tick over, Tip ask what they think you need then fit one that's more powerful. Will last forever. And cope with all eventuality's.

please have mercy mate and refrain from typing too many "zeroes" next time you tell us about the capacities of your aircons and perhaps you should also hold back giving wrong advice such as "then fit one that's more powerful"

[jaideeguy]

As mentioned by someone before.....we are going thru the hottest weather I've experienced here and that puts an extra heavy load on [small] aircons.

I have the Haier 9,000btu in my [small]office and it is working it's little butt off in this heat. Maybe just overload???/

[fredob43]

You dont say how big the room is your trying to cool but 9000btu is not very powerful my smallest bed room has a floor area of 15 sq mt standard hight and have fitted 13000btu A/C at this time of the year it cope's ok. My lounge I was told needed a 250000 btu A/C I fitted 330000 btu cope's more than well. Full power for 20min then down to tick over, Tip ask what they think you need then fit one that's more powerful. Will last forever. And cope with all eventuality's.

please have mercy mate and refrain from typing too many "zeroes" next time you tell us about the capacities of your aircons and perhaps you should also hold back giving wrong advice such as "then fit one that's more powerful"

Over ten year's ago I had an air con: fitted. And put in what was advised, it lasted less than two year's then had problem's. later when I wanted air in my new house, had a chat with air con specialist and he advised me to put in bigger than I needed. Did so and for the last eight year's+ other than service no problem's. Have 5 air con's and not had to replace one thing. Maybe Im wrong, but all I know is when I switch one or all on, they work even in this heat were haveing at the moment. So I put one to many O in if that's all youve got to worry about get a life, or spend a bit more of your time constructively maybe to advise the Op. MATE Edited April 25, 2010 by fredob43

[elkangorito]

Over ten year's ago I had an air con: fitted. And put in what was advised, it lasted less than two year's then had problem's. later when I wanted air in my new house, had a chat with air con specialist and he advised me to put in bigger than I needed. Did so and for the last eight year's+ other than service no problem's. Have 5 air con's and not had to replace one thing. Maybe Im wrong, but all I know is when I switch one or all on, they work even in this heat were haveing at the moment. So I put one to many O in if that's all youve got to worry about get a life, or spend a bit more of your time constructively maybe to advise the Op. MATE

If an installer does a 'survey' (which is not 'guesswork'), you should arrive at a correctly sized a/c unit that does the following:

1] Dehumidify the air (if 'oversized', dehumidification will not be effective).

2] Operate efficiently (& not run for hours [compressor] trying to cool the space).

BTW, if you treat (Dr) Naam appropriately, he may give you some detailed info about your situation.

[fredob43]

Over ten year's ago I had an air con: fitted. And put in what was advised, it lasted less than two year's then had problem's. later when I wanted air in my new house, had a chat with air con specialist and he advised me to put in bigger than I needed. Did so and for the last eight year's+ other than service no problem's. Have 5 air con's and not had to replace one thing. Maybe Im wrong, but all I know is when I switch one or all on, they work even in this heat were haveing at the moment. So I put one to many O in if that's all youve got to worry about get a life, or spend a bit more of your time constructively maybe to advise the Op. MATE

If an installer does a 'survey' (which is not 'guesswork'), you should arrive at a correctly sized a/c unit that does the following:

1] Dehumidify the air (if 'oversized', dehumidification will not be effective).

2] Operate efficiently (& not run for hours [compressor] trying to cool the space).

BTW, if you treat (Dr) Naam appropriately, he may give you some detailed info about your situation.

No: 1. I dont like to be called mate, If Im not there mate. Where I come from It's taken as talking down to some one. He's a doctor and as such would like to be called Dr no doubt.

No 2. I put an extra 0 in is that the end of the world.

No 3. If he think's Im wrong, please explain why. As this would help me and the OP. Not every one is a smart arse.

No 4. As I stated, I was told that an over size air con: Not vastly, just a couple of 1000btu would be more efficient and last longer. That was from a Thai man that work's for Saijo Denki.

In reply to your remark's, I hear what your saying. What I cant understand is, 1. If a larger than needed Air con: is put in why will the dehumidifier, not work so efficiently. 2. As the air con: is to big why would the compresser, work harder? All mine work at full power for the first 15 min's: or so, then just tick over. And comp: never get's more than warm. They (5) have never missed a beat in the 8+ year's Ive had them. Im alway's willing to learn. It's just the set up work's for me. So I just passed on the info I had. As the OP was having problem's with his 9000btu and thought my three pence worth might help. And I dont think I was due a slagging off.

[Naam]

No: 1. I dont like to be called mate, If Im not there mate. Where I come from It's taken as talking down to some one. He's a doctor and as such would like to be called Dr no doubt.

No 2. I put an extra 0 in is that the end of the world.

No 3. If he think's Im wrong, please explain why. As this would help me and the OP. Not every one is a smart arse.

No 4. As I stated, I was told that an over size air con: Not vastly, just a couple of 1000btu would be more efficient and last longer. That was from a Thai man that work's for Saijo Denki.

In reply to your remark's, I hear what your saying. What I cant understand is, 1. If a larger than needed Air con: is put in why will the dehumidifier, not work so efficiently. 2. As the air con: is to big why would the compresser, work harder? All mine work at full power for the first 15 min's: or so, then just tick over. And comp: never get's more than warm. They (5) have never missed a beat in the 8+ year's Ive had them. Im alway's willing to learn. It's just the set up work's for me. So I just passed on the info I had. As the OP was having problem's with his 9000btu and thought my three pence worth might help. And I dont think I was due a slagging off.

1. i'm not a medical doctor that's why i don't like to be addressed as "doctor" although that's the done thing in my home country and central Europe in general. besides, i don't come from where you come from and it was definitely not my intention "to talk you down".

2. don't take it too serious that i pulled your leg because of the additional "0".

3/4. the thai man from Saijo Denki is wrong. period! explanation: an aircon compressor is not a car engine which has to take different loads and therefore the wear and tear is affected. a compressor runs, compresses a gaseous refrigerant, pumps it through a heat exchanger where it liquifies and then to the evaporator where the liquid becomes (due to expansion) a gas again. no matter what the ambient and inside temperatures are, the load is nearly always the same and no such thing like working "harder" exists. au contraire! a compressor that does not cycle on/off but runs as continous as possible has a considerably longer life span. that applies for other parts of the outside unit too (relays, starting capacitors, condenser fan).

5. cooling capacity consists of two factors, active cooling (lowering the temperature) and latent cooling (dehumidification). the ratio of these two factors is roughly 60/40%. a room with the temperature kept at 26ºC and 80% relative humidity feels (for the average person) much more uncomfortable than the same room at 28ºC and 60% relative humidity. the mileage varies. generally the older you get the more comfortable you feel in dryer air. females normally suffer -when humidity is high- more than males. these are of course just rules of the thumb.

to acchieve a high level of dehumidification an aircon should have a long running cooling cycle. oversized units cycle on and off and are therefore inefficient in this respect.

"I dont think I was due a slagging off" the written word has no intonation, no gestures like tongue in cheek, just a few smilies. peace mate?

[chrgrims]

if you could take your brilliancy and add some sugar, you would become a real asset to people naam. I am done trolling you, but i really hope you think about how your posts can look sometimes. Intellect and smart ass short comments isnt what a person like you should limit yourself too. Emotion is part of being human too, and thats not only about winning an argument sometimes.

[fredob43]

No: 1. I dont like to be called mate, If Im not there mate. Where I come from It's taken as talking down to some one. He's a doctor and as such would like to be called Dr no doubt.

No 2. I put an extra 0 in is that the end of the world.

No 3. If he think's Im wrong, please explain why. As this would help me and the OP. Not every one is a smart arse.

No 4. As I stated, I was told that an over size air con: Not vastly, just a couple of 1000btu would be more efficient and last longer. That was from a Thai man that work's for Saijo Denki.

In reply to your remark's, I hear what your saying. What I cant understand is, 1. If a larger than needed Air con: is put in why will the dehumidifier, not work so efficiently. 2. As the air con: is to big why would the compresser, work harder? All mine work at full power for the first 15 min's: or so, then just tick over. And comp: never get's more than warm. They (5) have never missed a beat in the 8+ year's Ive had them. Im alway's willing to learn. It's just the set up work's for me. So I just passed on the info I had. As the OP was having problem's with his 9000btu and thought my three pence worth might help. And I dont think I was due a slagging off.

1. i'm not a medical doctor that's why i don't like to be addressed as "doctor" although that's the done thing in my home country and central Europe in general. besides, i don't come from where you come from and it was definitely not my intention "to talk you down".

2. don't take it too serious that i pulled your leg because of the additional "0".

3/4. the thai man from Saijo Denki is wrong. period! explanation: an aircon compressor is not a car engine which has to take different loads and therefore the wear and tear is affected. a compressor runs, compresses a gaseous refrigerant, pumps it through a heat exchanger where it liquifies and then to the evaporator where the liquid becomes (due to expansion) a gas again. no matter what the ambient and inside temperatures are, the load is nearly always the same and no such thing like working "harder" exists. au contraire! a compressor that does not cycle on/off but runs as continous as possible has a considerably longer life span. that applies for other parts of the outside unit too (relays, starting capacitors, condenser fan).

5. cooling capacity consists of two factors, active cooling (lowering the temperature) and latent cooling (dehumidification). the ratio of these two factors is roughly 60/40%. a room with the temperature kept at 26ºC and 80% relative humidity feels (for the average person) much more uncomfortable than the same room at 28ºC and 60% relative humidity. the mileage varies. generally the older you get the more comfortable you feel in dryer air. females normally suffer -when humidity is high- more than males. these are of course just rules of the thumb.

to acchieve a high level of dehumidification an aircon should have a long running cooling cycle. oversized units cycle on and off and are therefore inefficient in this respect.

"I dont think I was due a slagging off" the written word has no intonation, no gestures like tongue in cheek, just a few smilies. peace mate?

Thank you for the info very informative. But as the system Ive got, still work's that's where it's going to stay. Still dont quite agree on the not wear out bit. As in all the time Ive had them I have not had to replace one thing I.E. no rattlely fan's ect. But you live and learn. Once again thank's for the imfo. If you had put that in in the begining. It would have stoped you getting an ear hole bashing. And me sore finger's from tapping. Enjoy the rest of the day.

[rexnong]

Thanks for all your help and comments and although i havent sorted the air con out i am thinking its the condensor as i cant see any leak although the guy that cleans the air con says its all topped up which probably means it was full anyway?

I see him play about with some dials but never seen him clean anything outside just put plastic sheets everwhere and blast the sh&t out of the inside unit

The room is very small out of the sun ground floor well insulatedand is used as a spare room and up until recently used to be great but now has suddenly stopped working even before the heat wave

It was slowly loosing coolnes around feb ,its only a 9000btu (checked i havent added a few too many 0)because we were advised this is all it needed and it worked great

Thanks for your help again of to get a few changs then i dont feel the heat anyway

[longball53098]

I am no AC expert but even this "topping" up business has me concerned. Any AC tech worth his "freon" will know that there is no need to top up the freon. Checking the pressure if the client is complaining of lack of coolness is a different thing. If the tech is trained in the use of his tools and knows what the "h" he is doing one service call should be enough to clear this issue.

AC is not some mystery. Compare it to the refrigerator sitting in the kitchen. It works on basically the same principles. It is also a closed system. When was the last time you "topped up" the freon in that system?

You seem to have a leak and the local tech you hired does not know what he's doing. Instead of trouble shooting the problem and finding the leak it's easier for him to say he "topped up" the system and charge you 500 or 600 baht and then wait for you to call again. How do you know he actually added any freon? Another tech trick is to connect all his gear and fiddle around for a bit and tell you he did something. When he's finished does the unit cool? Hang a thermometer in front of the inside unit vents and wait 10 to 15 minutes or so. The air temperature right at the vent will most likely be about 14c to 18c. Anything over 18c I would be concerned the unit is not charged properly.

This is how I check my Mitsu 9000 btu unit. After 10 minutes the air at the vent was 14.5c and after about 30 minutes my temp at the output of the vents is 11.5c. These lower temps are during compressor on cycles. When the compressor cycles off the air temp at the vent goes up to about 22c. The compressor had cycled on and off once or twice already. This is a less then one year old unit. The unit has been running now for about 60 minutes total. The unit is set to 27c and another thermometer place near my PC confirms the set temp is being held at 27.5c. The outside air temp here in Utapao/Ban Chang this morning is 31c and relative humidity of 80%. The room is a small bedroom about 4 x 4.

[rexnong]

I am no AC expert but even this "topping" up business has me concerned. Any AC tech worth his "freon" will know that there is no need to top up the freon. Checking the pressure if the client is complaining of lack of coolness is a different thing. If the tech is trained in the use of his tools and knows what the "h" he is doing one service call should be enough to clear this issue.

AC is not some mystery. Compare it to the refrigerator sitting in the kitchen. It works on basically the same principles. It is also a closed system. When was the last time you "topped up" the freon in that system?

You seem to have a leak and the local tech you hired does not know what he's doing. Instead of trouble shooting the problem and finding the leak it's easier for him to say he "topped up" the system and charge you 500 or 600 baht and then wait for you to call again. How do you know he actually added any freon? Another tech trick is to connect all his gear and fiddle around for a bit and tell you he did something. When he's finished does the unit cool? Hang a thermometer in front of the inside unit vents and wait 10 to 15 minutes or so. The air temperature right at the vent will most likely be about 14c to 18c. Anything over 18c I would be concerned the unit is not charged properly.

This is how I check my Mitsu 9000 btu unit. After 10 minutes the air at the vent was 14.5c and after about 30 minutes my temp at the output of the vents is 11.5c. These lower temps are during compressor on cycles. When the compressor cycles off the air temp at the vent goes up to about 22c. The compressor had cycled on and off once or twice already. This is a less then one year old unit. The unit has been running now for about 60 minutes total. The unit is set to 27c and another thermometer place near my PC confirms the set temp is being held at 27.5c. The outside air temp here in Utapao/Ban Chang this morning is 31c and relative humidity of 80%. The room is a small bedroom about 4 x 4.

Thankyou for this comment i have read this whole thread again and have tried the hang the temperature gage next to the vent trick and after about 15 minutes i have a reading of 22.2c

left hanging the other side of the room its 33.6c so i have a couple of options

1. raise the bed up next to the vent

2. Try to locate this condensor and get a new one

I think option 2 is the best but here i only can find 2 air con cleaning guys who have a pick-up and a gang of lads who can clean the air con but know as much as my golden retreiver about parts and changing them

I will need to take the condensor off and take it to see if i can get a spare part in the dealers as i changed the swing vent motor which was easy enough

is the condensor an easy swap over or does it take so setting up?

Thanks in advance great response so far

[longball53098]

I don't think at this point you need to change any condensor. You need a technician that knows what the "h" he's doing. The system needs to be checked for a leaking freon line and repaired if possible. You say the AC worked well for 18 months? Was it a new system at that time? This problem may not be an expensive one to fix at this point. The freon in the system may have leaked out or the system is just not charged correctly.

I had a 35,000 btu unit at a house a couple of years ago that was installed new and over the course of 6 months it got worse and worse as for the output of cold air. When this happens slowly you don't really notice it right away. So finally I called the installer out and they checked all of the system for leaks but could not find one but the system was really low on freon. They re-charged the system and the unit worked flawlessly for more than 2 years when I moved out. In this case I think the fill valve was faulty and leaked a bit.

You could have a slow leak somewhere or the charging port may also be at fault. If they connected a set of vacuum gauges or filling equipment and they weren't careful some small particle of sand/dirt may be obstructing the fill port causing a small leak. This would be similar to a tire valve that is stuck open slightly causing you to loose air pressure in a car tire. Possible. The system needs a good check by a qualified tech.

[rexnong]

Thanks to everyone for your responce but i am still sweating at 32c i will get another cowboy to check in the morning as we have many cowboys around

I am still sure its the condensor but i will have to to and locate where the little bugg$r is

Thanks

[Naam]

Thanks to everyone for your responce but i am still sweating at 32c i will get another cowboy to check in the morning as we have many cowboys around I am still sure its the condensor but i will have to to and locate where the little bugg$r is Thanks

you don't need a magnifying glass to find the "little bugger". the condenser is the heat exchanger located in the outside unit. but it is highly unlike that a leak can be found in it. more likely is that the leak is in one of the pipes. unfortunately i have never heard of a thai aircon service company which has the gadget to find a refrigerant leak losing 1ppm (definitely not cowboys) plus the fact that most of the pipe length is in the wall under plaster and can't be checked. you have two options: keep on refilling refrigerant and pay through your nose till kingdom come or have new pipes installed who's vacuum is checked for a minimum of 24 hours before the system is filled again.